The Death of Jesus [Archive] - Literature Network Forums

gmhill

01-17-2002, 06:16 PM

wmchichiri

01-17-2002, 06:16 PM

Try to find Dawson McAllister's a Walk with Christ to the Cross, it has some phenomenal artwork in it, as well as a good overview of the last days of Christ construed from all the aspects of it presented in the Bible as well as medical and scineitific support and argument over popular beliefs.

Such as crucifixions were not, NAILED through their hands, but rather at their wrist, between the hollow of the bone there, otherwise the nail would rip through the hand and the body fall off of the cross before death.

the website is here

http://www.dawsonmcallister.com/

You should also check your local church and ask them. Ministers are always more than happy to help out on research like that, and they'd have recommendations. Also they tend to have better religious resources on Christianity then what you would find at a regular library. Most churches also tend to have a church library.

andina

07-17-2002, 05:54 PM

He is Alive!!!!!

RoseBud

04-24-2003, 05:27 AM

There was a bookyears back. The title was something like, A Physician Looks at Calvary. It was very extensive and very insightful.

Crucified persons usually died of asphixiation in their own body fluids. The lungs would fill, and also the forced posture would make it difficult to breath in, just like having asthma.

Jesus did not die the same way, this is why the soldiers were surprised. Jesus died of a "broken heart" (or in medical terms, congestive heart failure), which we know because both blood and water ran down the spear stuck in his side. His pericardium, the protective layers around the solid psrt of the heart, became filled with blood and water.

Arteum

04-29-2003, 01:10 AM

I always derived a lot of merriment from collating the Gospels. Here is the fragment concerning the death of Jesus:

JOHN:

Jesus knew that he had now finished his work. And in order to make the Scriptures come true, he said, "I am thirsty" [that is, not because he was thirsty :)]. A jar of cheap wine was there. Someone then soaked a sponge with the wine and held it up to Jesus’ mouth on the stem of a hyssop plant. After Jesus drank the wine he said, “Everything is done!”. He bowed his head and died.

LUKE:

Around noon the sky turned dark and stayed that way until the middle of the afternoon. The sun stopped shining, and the curtain in the temple split down the middle. Jesus shouted “Father, I put myself in your hands!” Then he died.

MARK:

Around noon the sky turned dark and stayed that way until around three o’clock. Then about that time Jesus shouted, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” which means “My God, my God, why have you deseted me?” Some of the people standing there heard Jesus and said, “He is calling for Elijah” One of them ran and grabbed a sponge. After he had soaked it in wine, he put it on a stick and held it up to Jesus. He said, “Let’s wait and see if Elijah will come and take him down!” Jesus shouted and then died. At once the curtain in the temple tore in from top to bottom. [Hmmm … Luke is saying that the curtain had split before Jesus died …]

MATTHEW

At noon the sky turned dark and stayed that way until three o’clock. [Matthew possessed the best memory of the four. John forgot completely that the sky was dark. Luke mentioned the time very approximately, Mark somewhat more accurately, and only Matthew was constantly checking his watch.] Then about that time Jesus shouted “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” which means “My God, my God, why have you deseted me?” Some of the people standing there heard Jesus and said, “He is calling for Elijah” One of them ran and grabbed a sponge. After he had soaked it in wine, he put it on a stick and held it up to Jesus. Others said, “Wait! Let’s see if Elijah will come and save him”. [In Mark, the same person who soaked the sponge said it, not "the others".] Once again Jesus shouted, and then died. At once the curtain in the temple was torn intwo from top to bottom. The earth shook and rocks split apart. Graves opened and many of God’s people were raised to life. They left their graves, and after Jesus had risen to life, they went to the hol city, where they were seen by many people. [Apparently, John, Luke and Mark considered the opening of the graves a very mundane business since they never mentioned it in their memoirs :)]

Chardata

04-29-2003, 02:42 AM

Arteum-
You're right. Jesus did not say "I thirst" b/c he was physically thirsty...in a way he was...but that's not the point. Jesus was spiritually thirsty. He was seperated from God and his soul and spirit thirsted for God's glory and magnitude...in the same way we should thirst for Him.

gmhill-
Try probe.com It has scientific background and alot of the info will be more on proving the Bible is true than anything else. Also you may want to try Focus on the Family. They should have some good info.

For any1 who cares...
My study hall teacher saw a documentary on the phycology of Jesus Christ. He said they portray Jesus as a good magician and phsycic. (the spelling is probally wrong -? ) Anyway, he said they presented some good info on thier idea...if anybody knows where i could see this movie i would love you for the rest of time...(i'm being sarcastic). Seriously, I don't believe that Jesus was a good con-artist. Jesus is my Lord and Savior but i want to prove that He's real to my teacher. It would really help me if i could see where he is coming from. Anyway, thanks...and i hope i helped in some way! wink

Ickmeister

05-26-2003, 01:57 AM

Tigerlily

05-26-2003, 02:31 PM

I think that at least the pictures I've seen are inaccurate. I think he pretty much looked like raw hambuger on a stick. Because (I don't know the verse) it say something like By his stripe ye were healed.

I think you're probably right Ickmeister, but people have a tendency to idealize things, and no one likes the idea of seeing their saviour bloody and torn. It offends the senses, even if it is inaccurate. Better a pleasing than a factual depiction of what happened. People also have a tendency to forget that Jesus was "fully human" and therefore bled just like the rest of us. I have no idea what my point is here, but that's my two cents on the subject.

DumbLikeAPoet

06-02-2003, 12:16 PM

You're right. Jesus did not say "I thirst" b/c he was physically thirsty...in a way he was...but that's not the point. Jesus was spiritually thirsty. He was seperated from God and his soul and spirit thirsted for God's glory and magnitude...in the same way we should thirst for Him.

Jesus was not "seperated from God". Jesus was God in a human form.

JonUs

Chardata

06-05-2003, 02:59 PM

DumbLikeAPoet

06-05-2003, 04:15 PM

you are right but this is during his crusifiction. This was when God turned his back on his son b/c he was covered in sin. Jesus had never felt anything like (seperation from God) that before. Jesus was God but in the same way he wasn't. During his crusifiction he was seperated from God.

Where you get that from I don't know. Jesus never sinned, if you beleive that he did then you got some issues that need to be addressed. Either he was or was not God he can't just switch between the two, he could not be seperate from himself.

JonUs

Tigerlily

06-05-2003, 10:32 PM

I'm sorry to have to correct you on this one, but Jesus WAS covered in sin. Remember that He never sinned, but He took the sins of the world upon Himself in order that we might be saved. At that point, God couldn't look at Him. This is not to say that He was ever NOT God. He always was, but He was the only one in the world that could take our sins and pay the price for them. He was never "seperated" from the Father either; God the Father just couldn't look upon Him. He said that God had forsaken Him because He felt so alone. He was alone because He was bearing our sins and the Father had to turn away from Him because of that.

Chardata

06-06-2003, 12:15 AM

Tigerlily is right. When i use the word seperated i use that word b/c i lack of a better word to use. The Trinity is a wierd thing and like i said before i don't completely understand it...it is something i take by faith. Jesus is God but in the same way he isn't. It's kinda like fingers...they are all considered a (part) hand but they are still individual fingers. Like i said...this is something i have to take by faith. 8)

Chardata

06-07-2003, 05:14 PM

DumbLikeAPoet

06-09-2003, 04:41 PM

ok...i was thinking last night...when i used seperated i was right. Jesus was severed from God b/c he was covered in sin. God cannot have anything to do with sin b/c he is perfect in every way so He had to seperate himself from His son. That's why in the Bible it sais that God turned his back on His son & Jesus cried out b/c it hurt him so much to not feel the presence of God anymore.

In saying that you make Jesus simply a man. In which case he is not God and his sacrifice means nothing.

Here is a really good site to discuss things Bible releated if you want to go there. http://www.Christianideas.org

Jonus

tjg1098

06-12-2003, 03:31 AM

Ok...I really don't have anything to add to the discussion, except that it is spelled SEPARATED. Thank you. Misspelled words annoy me for some reason :D

Bleeding Pawn

03-27-2013, 03:37 PM

Edited.

cacian

03-27-2013, 03:40 PM

Jesus was not "seperated from God". Jesus was God in a human form.

JonUs

why would god want to be Jesus? Why could he not come down himself? What would be the point of that?

cafolini

03-27-2013, 04:20 PM

why would god want to be Jesus? Why could he not come down himself? What would be the point of that?

Because God is not stupid. He knows the goons would get his arse if He came in person. ROFLMAO.
It wasn't a point. It was a fat blot. ROF!!
Jesus had Cacian in mind and he was so kind so kind toward her that He wanted to give her the unique opportunity to ask her question with foundation.
"This is a failure to communicate." ~ Coolhand Luke

Adolescent09

03-27-2013, 06:59 PM

We all know Jesus is getting high in heaven. At least I won't have to sneak away into back allies to get my fix once I pass away.

cafolini

03-27-2013, 07:06 PM

If they had used nails Cafolini, there would have been no escape. My ancestors had a nail factory. But no, they wouldn't take heed and bought the cheap ones.

cacian

03-28-2013, 03:17 AM

We all know Jesus is getting high in heaven. At least I won't have to sneak away into back allies to get my fix once I pass away.
Would that be the worth of dying I wonder. ;)

If they had used nails Cafolini, there would have been no escape. My ancestors had a nail factory. But no, they wouldn't take heed and bought the cheap ones.

Are you saying Jesus escaped or the nails failed?

Bleeding Pawn

03-28-2013, 02:58 PM

Edited

cafolini

03-28-2013, 03:10 PM

Would that be the worth of dying I wonder. ;)

Are you saying Jesus escaped or the nails failed?

Both. Jesus ascended because the nails were cheap and could not hold. It was a waste of crucifixion.

qimissung

03-28-2013, 04:39 PM

why would god want to be Jesus? Why could he not come down himself? What would be the point of that?

I don't really want to get into a religious discussion, but here's what I understand, Cacian: God is Jesus, and Jesus is God, and they are both also the Holy Ghost, hence, the trinity of three in one. God came to earth as his son, Jesus, who was born a human being and upon his crucifixion ascended to heaven. Before he did that he "saved" us from our sins, if we only believe in him.

You know it's very popular today to be scornful of religion, and I'm not much of one for organized religion myself, but I personally believe that if you believe in love (as in loving one another as much as you love yourself) and that human life is sacred then that's all that really matters.

I also like the quote from Hillel:

"If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am not for others, what am I? And if not now, when?"

Hillel was a rabbi who also gave us the Golden Rule:

Once there was a gentile who came before Shammai, and said to him: "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot. Shammai pushed him aside with the measuring stick he was holding. The same fellow came before Hillel, and Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

cafolini

03-28-2013, 05:52 PM

I don't really want to get into a religious discussion, but here's what I understand, Cacian: God is Jesus, and Jesus is God, and they are both also the Holy Ghost, hence, the trinity of three in one. God came to earth as his son, Jesus, who was born a human being and upon his crucifixion ascended to heaven. Before he did that he "saved" us from our sins, if we only believe in him.

You know it's very popular today to be scornful of religion, and I'm not much of one for organized religion myself, but I personally believe that if you believe in love (as in loving one another as much as you love yourself) and that human life is sacred then that's all that really matters.

I also like the quote from Hillel:

"If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am not for others, what am I? And if not now, when?"

Hillel was a rabbi who also gave us the Golden Rule:

Once there was a gentile who came before Shammai, and said to him: "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot. Shammai pushed him aside with the measuring stick he was holding. The same fellow came before Hillel, and Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

That which is despicable to you, do not do to your neighbor. But if you like a watermelon up your arse, do not hesitate to share the pleasure.

Adolescent09

03-29-2013, 07:23 AM

That which is despicable to you, do not do to your neighbor. But if you like a watermelon up your arse, do not hesitate to share the pleasure.

Great twist, cafolini :D

qimissung

03-29-2013, 09:35 AM

Ahhh, so sweet. Share that sweet watermelon, guys.

Bleeding Pawn

04-02-2013, 01:56 PM

I am wondering if anyone knows of any good sites where I can find information and/or pictures of the death of Jesus.

This is for an assignment and I need more than what's in the bible to help me with
:)
Your sincerely GlennKnows :)

Its doubtful how this might be useful , since you might not be active anymore ( after all these years) but still. As mentioned earlier regarding his death, it is murky in details but as far as Jesus image is concerned, the various images and portraits in circulation worldwide is not that of the man called Jesus of Nazareth nor does it even come close to his resemblance, not even the paintings from the Sistine Chapel. These works were mainly of the renaissance era painters , especially Michelangelo, who either painted them from their own creative imagination or used a model for that.

As it is a fact that no where in the Bible does it mention the facial features of Jesus, many historians and archaeologists have come to the conclusion that since being a Canaanite and having a Jewish ancestry and being born in the Levant ( Canaan- modern day Israel) he most probably would be having a tanned complexion contrary to the fair-skinned person he is always portrayed and some even going as far as claiming he was slightly dark.

Talking about models being used by painters for biblical art works, i recall reading an article many years ago reviewing a short story called The Model. The book mentions that when Michelangelo started working the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, he needed a model for the Christ Child and after searching long and hard he came across a cherub-faced youth matching the impression with what he had in his imagination. Almost three decades later later, his life`s work almost complete, the painter went in search again for the model of Judas Iscariot ( the apostle who betrayed Jesus in exchange for 30 pieces of silver) and after searching the city high and low and many hardships, he found such a man whose face bore that of a man who has committed practically every sin known to mankind.
"Day after day, as the painter put the finishing touches on the portrait, the model would gaze at him with troubled eyes. When the work was complete, Michelangelo asked him what troubled him so. The model broke down and said, "Years ago, I was your model for the Christ Child" .

I always derived a lot of merriment from collating the Gospels. Here is the fragment concerning the death of Jesus:

MARK:

Around noon the sky turned dark and stayed that way until around three o’clock. Then about that time Jesus shouted, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” which means “My God, my God, why have you deserted me?”

This confirms the notion that the three Abrahamic faith of today namely- Judaism, Christianity and Islam, does not only share the Patriarch but also have something else in common too. Their languages have the same Semitic roots and phonetically similar too albeit slight differences, the Hebrew having 22 and the Arabic consisting of 28 letters. The arabic translation of "My God, my God, why have you deserted me" in latin goes like this..."Elahi elahi lemaza tkhalaatani" ( hope its correct, any Arab here can confirm it), Note the similarity.

WyattGwyon

04-21-2013, 09:17 AM

As it is a fact that no where in the Bible does it mention the facial features of Jesus, many historians and archaeologists have come to the conclusion that since being a Canaanite and having a Jewish ancestry and being born in the Levant ( Canaan- modern day Israel) he most probably would be having a tanned complexion contrary to the fair-skinned person he is always portrayed and some even going as far as claiming he was slightly dark.

High above a major thoroughfare in Pittsburgh (industrial town in the U.S.) I once saw a billboard promoting some Christian sect or other, the central image of which was the usual light-haired, blue-eyed, hippie Jesus. Someone had climbed up to scrawl the words: "Jesus was not European" across the bottom of it.

By the way, I find it amusing that this zombie thread was resurrected because someone needed to correct a decade-old misspelling. I think I need to get a life . . .