Christchurch, new zealand. Friday 15th march 2019

[Biggus]

No matter the race, creed or colour
Of those peacefully assembled there
There can be few acts of greater evil
Than the massacre of people at prayer

[Jerrybaldy]

I disagree Biggus. The massacre of people is wicked. The fact that they were praying rather than eating or singing or kicking a ball is completely irrelevant as far as I can fathom. I object to the thought that it makes it any worse, as though it somehow could be worse to die in a perceived act of sanctity.

[Ekimhtims]

Great poem Biggus that wasn't a philosophical tract, and therefore not worthy of any criticism. Or, might I say any criticism is not worth regarding in light of the heartfelt intention of the poem itself.

[Biggus]

Obviously as a person of faith I disagree, but thanks for your thoughts

[Biggus]

Thanks Ekimhtims much appreciated

[kiz_paws]

Well said, Biggus.
My heart goes out to all affected.

[Jerrybaldy]

Fu cking hogwash. My heart goes out etc etc. None of you are honest enough to say you read the story and felt sad for a second then carried on unaffected. This pseudo empathy for every event that makes the news whilst whistling a tune through every tragedy every second that doesn’t make the news is nauseating in its sycophantism.

[Jerrybaldy]

You never heard a politician say at this time our thoughts are with .. add dead persons name. You read the news and felt something breifly like we all did. Don’t sanctimise yourself with something deeper because it made the news. Thousands of people died that day in unjustified ways. Find this ****e nauseating in its ultimate insincerity. Save it for Facebook

[Ekimhtims]

Jerrybaldy, it is presumptuous of anyone to judge the merits of another's intent, but you're invective's against kiz paws in particular, and others by extension, are just hostile. Feel free to feel nauseated, but no need to puke in another's lap simply because you worked your own tummy up.

[Ecurb]

[Jane Austen after British soldiers had been killed in the Peninsular War:] "How horrible it is to have so many people killed! And what a blessing that one cares for none of them!"

(From a letter to her sister -- i.e. probably not meant for public consumption)

[Ecurb]

Spring and Fall
Gerard Manley Hopkins, 1844 - 1889
to a young child

Márgarét, áre you gríeving
Over Goldengrove unleaving?
Leáves, like the things of man, you
With your fresh thoughts care for, can you?
Ah! ás the heart grows older
It will come to such sights colder
By and by, nor spare a sigh
Though worlds of wanwood leafmeal lie;
And yet you will weep and know why.
Now no matter, child, the name:
Sórrow’s spríngs áre the same.
Nor mouth had, no nor mind, expressed
What heart heard of, ghost guessed:
It ís the blight man was born for,
It is Margaret you mourn for.

Why are people (and the news media) obsessed with terrorist attacks? Perhaps it is because the randomness seems threatening. Perhaps it is because human evil is fascinating. Perhaps we relish playing at a grief that doesn't affect us TOO closely (remember the public ululating when Princess Di died?).

Certainly we can all empathize with the terror of being in that mosque.

All of us are doomed. It is the blight that man was born for.

Should we care more about the deaths in that New Zealand Mosque than about Anna Karenina's suicide or Prince Andrei's death? Do we?

[Biggus]

Thanks Kiz

[Biggus]

Of course we should care more, and furthermore we do.

[Biggus]

I'm stunned by the bile from Jerrybaldy and the attack on Kiz, she certainly didnt deserve it, she is always kind and thoughtful in her comments.
And how dare you presume to know what I care about or who I empathize with.
People do care when tragedy strikes, so dont judge others by your own standards.

[Biggus]

I'm stunned by the bile from Jerrybaldy and the attack on Kiz, she certainly didnt deserve it, she is always kind and thoughtful in her comments.
And how dare you presume to know what I care about or who I empathize with.
People do care when tragedy strikes, so dont judge others by your own standards.

[Jerrybaldy]

People care when it’s presented to them. When it’s not they cannot care in their ignorance. What I object to is the band Waggoning of popular grief. And I don’t give a flying one what you think of me as result as I think I’m right to question your sincerity. I stand by it.

[Jerrybaldy]

Tell me Biggus. How were your feelings of grief expressed that day you heard the news? How did it interfere with your day before you wrote of your deep remorse of a highly publicised event ?

[Ekimhtims]

Jerrybaldy, were you a hypocritically insincere band-waggoner of popular pleasure and happiness because you didn't stay that way after something wonderful happened that you appreciated having heard about? Do you seriously believe that the worst of the world must be ingrained so deeply in our psyche that we shouldn't simply "let go" at some point? I'm a naturally happy and optimistic person, but my recognition of tragedy and the suffering of others is real and sincere regardless of my not remaining in a perpetual state of mourning or agonizing depression. Or maybe you would prefer personal action against the acts of this world which bring suffering. But then you would really be the hypocrite in thinking that you could end all acts that bring suffering when these acts have gone on since time immemorial; well either that or suffer yourself from a messiah complex. And what exactly is it that you ask of these others who you regard as hypocrites? Would you find some respect for them should they show or express no care at all? Or would you then turn around and call them heartless cold sociopaths. I doubt one could win with you...though I have little doubt you're a loser.

[Ekimhtims]

I'm stunned by the bile from Jerrybaldy and the attack on Kiz, she certainly didnt deserve it, she is always kind and thoughtful in her comments.
And how dare you presume to know what I care about or who I empathize with.
People do care when tragedy strikes, so dont judge others by your own standards.

And to see how nice she was to him regarding his poetry less than a month ago... http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?89831-The-western-front

Shameful.

[Jerrybaldy]

You’re biggest ever response Biggus. You’re welcome :)

[Biggus]

Wow, you're a real piece of work.
I don't think any kind of tragedy would move you,
I pity you.

[Ekimhtims]

I'm so disappointed he hadn't cared to respond to my post #20 above. Not sure he's worth the pity though.

[Biggus]

You're probably right

[Jerrybaldy]

Sorry Ekim. I didn’t realise that the length of your reply meant it warranted a response. Biggus, you don’t think any tragedy would move me? Will let your words speak for themselves. I’m sure I’ve never felt the devastation you felt that day. They weren’t just murdered. They were murdered whilst praying to their god after all. Obviously worse. Don’t know what I was thinking of. Post another limerick.

[Jerrybaldy]

Finally as I’m obviously not coming back here. This used to be a poetry site. Not a sycophantic posting site like FB. Shame.

[Ekimhtims]

Sorry Ekim. I didn’t realise that the length of your reply meant it warranted a response.

Jerrybaldy obviously failed to understand that it wasn't the length of my post that warranted a response...it was the question marks (including the one I failed to include at the end of the second to last sentence...doh!). Anyhow, if you're reading this Jerrybaldy, which I have no doubt you will (I would if I was you) don't leave so easily, just be more aware of how your words may be taken...well unless you wanted them to be taken (and responded to) in the manner they were, in which case, bye.

[Biggus]

Well as a person of faith i do care and I do feel it when tragedy strikes, and as a PoF being murdered while at prayer has more significance.
So Jerrybaldy can stay here and be offended by our compassion or take his bile elsewhere its all the same to me.

[Danik 2016]

I think the significance lies in the fact that at certain times a prayer house as such would be respected and avoided, whatever the faith it represented.

[Ecurb]

There is a long tradition of churches being places of sanctuary. Nonetheless, Biggus is flirting with bigotry. He writes:


Well as a person of faith i do care and I do feel it when tragedy strikes, and as a PoF being murdered while at prayer has more significance.
So Jerrybaldy can stay here and be offended by our compassion or take his bile elsewhere its all the same to me.

Why "as a person of faith"? Is Biggus suggesting that atheists and agnostics do NOT feel it when tragedy strikes?

In addition, why should whether Biggus is a "Pof" make any difference as to whether "being murdered while at prayer has more significance."? Is it because such a murder targets Biggus's brethren? Is he suggesting that he would care far less if a bunch of atheistic school children were murdered? Perhaps that's not what Biggus means, but it's certainly what is suggested by what he writes.

God created a world (so say the faithful) in which everyone suffers and dies. To a God existing beyond time and space. it would make no difference whether someone dies in a massacre or in bed, at age 94. Both are (from His perspective) equally either tragic or benign. It is only to us humans (bound by time and space) that one demise seems more tragic than the other. We all like to believe we are somehow guaranteed out three score and ten (or has modern medicine made it four score and ten?). We also empathize with the survivors, especially parents whose children might be murdered. Nonetheless, to believe that "being murdered while at prayer has more significance..." suggests bigotry. Think of the converse: "Being murdered at prayer has less significance." If the latter suggests bigotry, wouldn't the former?

[Pompey Bum]

Time to move on.

[Jerrybaldy]

Have just returned after several weeks to see what was going on. Found a load of limericks by Biggus populating the front page. Hope y’all enjoyed what you fought for. This site is dead apart from the burning. My so called bile is probably the last provocative thing to be posted here. F ucking shame.

[Ekimhtims]

Jeez Jerrybaldy, way to overestimate yourself bro. Still haven't answered my questions I see...you know, the ones with the question marks (post #20 above) . Questions that arose only from you're own negative and destructive comments that brought about what you know criticize. Sheesh.

And I might suggest that you have some overly high expectations of discussion forums. Seems you have issues surrounding "acceptance."

[Jerrybaldy]

My bad. Just having trouble giving credence to somebody I’ve never met calling me bro. Do you wanna play your mama?

[Jerrybaldy]

Cos she’s fat

[Jerrybaldy]

Just checked your post #20 you’re obsessed with and you prattle on and ask several questions so maybe you could narrow it down.

[Ekimhtims]

My bad. Just having trouble giving credence to somebody I’ve never met calling me bro. Do you wanna play your mama?


Cos she’s fat


Just checked your post #20 you’re obsessed with and you prattle on and ask several questions so maybe you could narrow it down.

So if I didn't call you "bro" you'd give me credence eh? Sure. Ummm, the fat thing...what's that about? And you want me to "narrow it down" regarding what you yourself regard as "several questions"? Too funny. Stop avoiding already and seriously provide some basis for why you so strongly believe that were're all a bunch of hypocrites for having a heart.

[Jerrybaldy]

As jumping on a having a heart bandwagon shows nothing and as for religion I give it the respect it deserves which is obviously none to any free thinking individual. The sooner all religious beliefs are eradicated and accepted as the ridiculous nonsense that they clearly are the better. This original post attempted to heighten death of a devotee above a normal death. I make no apology for attacking that. I have no idea in this current world and it’s enlightenment in the last millennia why religion and the millions of deaths caused by its tenacity to exist is tolerated and respected. It’s ridiculous. This original post was based on that belief. I stand by my reaction. That’s all from me.
.

[Ekimhtims]

You weren't asked nor required to jump on the "heart bandwagon," but you had no need to attack those whose hearts are expanded through their participation in religious sentiment. A sentiment which was never expressed as a dogmatic belief, which as a freethinker myself I care little for, but who also understands religion as a medium for the same expression you may hold when you bow your head in respect for the natural passing of a loved one. Regardless, I am satisfied in some degree in that now I have a basis for better understanding your response. I may not agree with it, but understanding doesn't require assent.

[Jerrybaldy]

Ok. All the best to you and to this site and everybody on it. Except the bad guys. It’s been a gas, lit net . Nine years of scribbling and reading other people’s scribblings. It’s been a release and in hundreds of posts I’m sure I wrote a few good ones. I definitely read a lot of good ones.
Jerry B.

[Shadowlight]

Jerry, you have written many good ones, and will continue to do so.

Not all in life is beautiful, some of it is the complete opposite. Neither one or the other all the time, guess what matters is how you weather the storm and how you take advantage of the day. And that is different for everyone, and it should be just ok, no harm to you right

Your angst seems directly related at times to your frustration of how slow the site is. Like a rebellious child (dont pretend you dont like to be called that) you will throw a taunt or offense to get a rouse. You surely did here. "Better than nothing" as they say?

The LitNet's glory days may be over, but I believe there is still something here worth coming back too, even if not as regularly. It is a safe space, or at least a blank one, that I can write my thoughts, experiences, and feelings. Sometimes I get lucky to have spurred someone's criticisms, compliments, or feedback-but even if not, it is still worth it to me. I hope it will be for you too

[Jerrybaldy]

You are magnanimous and sincere Shadow light. But having popped back on and seen the state of the front page ( humour, little bit of #263 - 274 mainly) , this place is truly dead as a place of creativity and provocation.
All the best to you.
JB


Jerry, you have written many good ones, and will continue to do so.

Not all in life is beautiful, some of it is the complete opposite. Neither one or the other all the time, guess what matters is how you weather the storm and how you take advantage of the day. And that is different for everyone, and it should be just ok, no harm to you right

Your angst seems directly related at times to your frustration of how slow the site is. Like a rebellious child (dont pretend you dont like to be called that) you will throw a taunt or offense to get a rouse. You surely did here. "Better than nothing" as they say?

The LitNet's glory days may be over, but I believe there is still something here worth coming back too, even if not as regularly. It is a safe space, or at least a blank one, that I can write my thoughts, experiences, and feelings. Sometimes I get lucky to have spurred someone's criticisms, compliments, or feedback-but even if not, it is still worth it to me. I hope it will be for you too

[Biggus]

Well you certainly provide plenty of provocation.
But even though you appeared to have singled me out to bear the brunt of your venting spleen, i do the Christian thing and turn the other cheek (Doubtless that will be wrong)

[Jerrybaldy]

.........

[Logos]

Closed because of nasty, bitter, childish nonsense :)