Introduction to the Classical Tradition

[bluosean]

I'm finally starting to read Shakespeare. Iv'e read some of his plays before, but Iv'e never spent so much time, and tried so hard to understand, as now. Ive also been spending a lot of time with The Bible (Gideon, Oxford Annotated, and Geneva), and I am very happy when I understand characters and passages that Shakespeare is drawing from.

My problem is that of the Greek/Roman writings/tradition. I haven't received any school here, and, when I see a name, I don't know what that god/person/story was. Actually, this isn't just with Shakespeare. There are reference in Ben Jonson, Melville, Dickens, etc. that I have glossed over.

Where should I start? I dislike reading translations, but it seems I at last have to read at least some of these texts. Homer and Ovid is all I can think of. Are there any other very, very necessary books that I need to read to get a decent understanding of the Greek/Roman influence?

[mortalterror]

You should probably read the complete Greek plays by Aeschylus, Sophocles, Euripides, and Aristophanes. There are about 37 Shakespearean plays and about 45 ancient Greek plays but the overall quality and length are similar. Other than that, you need to read Homer's The Iliad, The Odyssey, Virgil's Aeneid, Ovid's Metamorphoses, Seneca's tragedies, and Lucan's Pharsalia. Seneca is probably the most important influence on Shakespeare, particularly with the five act structure popular at the time imitating his plays. His verse style owes more to Ovid, and Ovid is also the treasure trove of Roman mythology. Homer and Virgil are just the gold standard that everyone has to read to understand ancient Greco-Roman culture since they were the most revered literature of the time. You're also going to want to read Plutarch's Lives which is where Shakespeare got a lot of the material for his Roman plays. You'll also want to read the plays of Plautus and Terence from which Shakespeare borrowed to make his own play The Comedy of Errors.

If you just want to read classical literature for it's own sake, then try some of these:
750BC Homer- The Iliad
750BC Hesiod- Theogony
700-500BC Homeric Hymns
680-645BC Archilochus- Be Bold
630-570BC Sappho- Hymn to Aphrodite
620-564BC Aesop- The Fox and the Grapes
582-485BC Anacreon- Love's Night Walk
525-456BC Aeschylus- Oresteia
522-443BC Pindar- Victory Odes
497-405BC Sophocles- Oedipus Rex
484-425BC Herodotus- Histories
480-406BC Euripides- Medea
460-395BC Thucydides- History of the Peloponnesian War
446-386BC Aristophanes- Lysistrata
445-380BC Lysias- Speeches
436-338BC Isocrates- Panathenaicus
430-354BC Xenophon- Anabasis
424-348BC Plato- Republic
420-348BC Isaeus- Speeches
396-323BC Lycurgus- Speeches
390-322BC Hypereides- Speeches
389-314BC Aeschines- Speeches
384-322BC Demosthenes- On the Crown
384-322BC Aristotle- Nichomachean Ethics
371-287BC Theophrastus- On Character
361-291BC Dinarchus- Speeches
342-291BC Menander- The Miser
323-283BC Euclid- Elements
310-250BC Theocritus- Idylls
310-240BC Callimachus- Aetia
300-246BC Apollonius Rhodius- Argonautika
254-184BC Plautus- The Pot of Gold
204-270BC Plotinus- Enneads
200-118BC Polybius- The Histories
195-159BC Terence- The Brothers
106-43BC Cicero- Dream of Scipio
100-44BC Caesar- The Gallic War
86-35BC Sallust- The Catiline Conspiracy
84-54BC Catullus- Poem 107
70-19BC Virgil- The Aeneid
65-8BC Horace- Odes
64BC-24AD Strabo- Geography
60-7BC Dionysus of Halicarnassus- On Imitation
59BC-17AD Livy- History of Rome
55-19BC Tibullus- Elegies
50-15BC Sextus Propertius- Elegies
43BC-17AD Ovid- Metamorphoses
4BC-65AD Seneca- Thyestes
23-79AD Pliny the Elder- Natural History
27-66AD Petronius- Satyricon
34-62AD Persius- Satires
35-100AD Quintillian- Institutes of Oratory
37-100AD Josephus- The Jewish War
39-65AD Lucan- Pharsalia
40-104AD Martial- Epigrams
45-96AD Statius- Thebaid
46-120AD Plutarch- Lives
55-138AD Juvenal- Satires
55-135AD Epictetus- Discourses
56-117AD Tacitus- Annals
61-112AD Pliny the Younger- Letters
69-130AD Suetonius- Lives of 12 Caesars
86-160AD Arrian- The Anabasis of Alexander
90-168AD Ptolemy- The Great Treatise
95-165AD Appian- Roman History
121-180AD Marcus Aurelius- Meditations
125-180AD Apuleius- The Golden ***
125-180AD Lucian- True Story
125-180AD Aulus Gellius- Attic Nights
129-199AD Galen- Medical Writing
143-176AD Pausanias- Description of Greece
150AD Longus- Daphnis and Chloe
150-235AD Cassius Dio- Roman History
213-273AD Longinus- On the Sublime
250AD Heliodorus- Ethiopica
354-430AD St. Augustine- Confessions
400AD Nonnus- Dionysiacca

If all of that is too much for you and you just want to get a couple of the references then you can read Edith Hamilton's Mythology or Bulfinch's Mythology.

[bluosean]

Great. Thank you so much!

No, I don't want to read those Mythologies you mentioned last. I'm sure they are great, but I think I'll go for the originals.

Having said that, your list is overwhelming. I'll start with Mary M. Innes translation of the Metamorphoses I think. Homer's two; any favorite translations? How about other must have translations for some of the other recommendations?

[stlukesguild]

I would initially crop Mortal's suggestions down... although he's the "classicist".

Homer- The Iliad and The Odyssey (I would go with either Richmond Lattimore or Robert Fagles... although Alexander Pope may be of interest)
Hesiod- Theogony and Works and Days (M.L. West?)
Sappho- Poems (Mary Barnard or Anne Carson)
Aeschylus- Oresteia (Robert Fagles or Richmond Lattimore and David Grene)
Sophocles- The Oedipus Trilogy (Robert Fagles)
Euripides- Selected Plays (especially Medea). There are a number of translations worth looking into: The Greek Plays: Sixteen Plays by Aeschylus, Sophocles, and Euripides (Modern Library Classics), Grief Lessons: Four Plays by Euripides tr. Anne Carson, tr. Paul Roche
Herodotus- Histories ( The Landmark Herodotus- Robert B. Strassler)
Thucydides- The Peloponesian War (The Landmark Thucydides- Robert B. Strassler)
Plato- The Republic (Allan Bloom)
Aristophanes- Lysistrata (Paul Roche?)
Theocritus- Idylls (Charles Stuart Calverley)
Ovid- Metamorphoses- (Rolfe Humphries or Allen Mandelbaum)
Virgil- Aeneid (Robert Fagles or Robert Fitzgerald)
Horace- Odes (David Ferry or David West)
Catullus- Poems (Peter Green?)
Plutarch- Lives
Lucretius- De Rerum Natura (Rolfe Humphries or Ronald Melville)
Marcus Aurelius- Meditations

Ovid's Metamorphoses might be the best place to start being a classical era compendium of Greco-Roman myth and legend. Honestly, many of the Greco-Roman "originals" assume the reader is already familiar with the various myths and legends and at some point you will likely discover that a solid encyclopedic compendium of Greco-Roman mythology provides a useful foundation for a greater understanding of the Greco-Roman classics... and subsequent literature and art rooted in the same.

[mortalterror]

For Homer, Virgil, and Aeschylus you can't do better than either Fagles or Fitzgerald. Sophocles I'd go with the Fitzgerald translations. For Ovid, I go with the Humphries. Whatever you do, steer clear of Green and Lattimore. They are the worst, even if they are the most readily available. William Arrowsmith's competing collection is vastly superior. For Seneca, I like Slavitt and E.F. Watling. Either's good. You might want to cut your teeth on the Harvard Classics volume Nine Greek Dramas. The translations are old but excellent. Arrowsmith's Petronius is the best and Melville did the only readable Statius. Other than that, I have no real preferences. Stuff like the histories can be pretty dry and you just have to power through them whatever translation you get. For instance, I've never found good translations of the speeches. About the only place you are even going to find them is in the Loeb Classics library. Besides Loeb, I find that Penguin usually makes pretty high quality books whatever the language or period. Oh, and if you want to read Catullus, be warned he's extremely dirty like Petronius. Also, I like the Guy Lee translation.

[bluosean]

Thanks so much y'all.

This gives me plenty to start.

[Vladimir777]

For Homer, Virgil, and Aeschylus you can't do better than either Fagles or Fitzgerald. Sophocles I'd go with the Fitzgerald translations. For Ovid, I go with the Humphries. Whatever you do, steer clear of Green and Lattimore. They are the worst, even if they are the most readily available. William Arrowsmith's competing collection is vastly superior. For Seneca, I like Slavitt and E.F. Watling. Either's good. You might want to cut your teeth on the Harvard Classics volume Nine Greek Dramas. The translations are old but excellent. Arrowsmith's Petronius is the best and Melville did the only readable Statius. Other than that, I have no real preferences. Stuff like the histories can be pretty dry and you just have to power through them whatever translation you get. For instance, I've never found good translations of the speeches. About the only place you are even going to find them is in the Loeb Classics library. Besides Loeb, I find that Penguin usually makes pretty high quality books whatever the language or period. Oh, and if you want to read Catullus, be warned he's extremely dirty like Petronius. Also, I like the Guy Lee translation.

First off, glad to see St. Lukes posting. Thought he had disappeared, and he always has valuable info for someone like me going through the classics for the first time. You, too, mortalterror!

I read Lattimore's Iliad and Odyssey. Liked the Iliad more than the Odyssey, but maybe (probably) that was due to the original work more than him. Mortalterror, you say steer clear of Lattimore. Is that just in reference to Ovid, or any Lattimore. I remember I read his Homer since Beowulf on the Beach (which inspired me to read the classics--highly recommend) recommended it, or his Iliad, anyway.

I'd like to read both Ovid and the Aeneid this year. I have the latter in Mandelbaum, so I, going to read that translation. Murnighan (Beowulf on the Beach author) cites Mary Innes, but you guys both mention Humphries, so that seems as good as any. Anyways, Murnighan didn't exactly love The Metamorphoses.

To the OP, I agree with the others that having a background of the mythology independent of the classic fictional works helps. In Homer, he's not telling the background of the gods' stories. They are merely characters in the ongoing action, and you are expected to have a background in them, as his audience would've. I'm sure it's similar in other classical works (outside of Metamorphoses, which as far as I know IS tales of mythology themselves). I haven't read either Hamilton or Bulfinch's Mythology books, but I do want to. I have read Don't Know Much About Mythology a while ago, which I did like. It's not just about the Greco-Romans, though.

[Vladimir777]

So I was at a nice used-bookstore and made two purchases relevant to this thread today: Bulfinch's Mythology and the Mandelbaum translation of Metamorphoses. Hopefully his translation is good for a first-timer. I actually have his translations of the Aeneid and the Divine Comedy, although I haven't read either, so maybe that'll give me a sense of consistency in all those.