Short vs long works

[Leopard]

Does length matter when comparing two works, assuming they're both of first-rate quality? Can a single lyric or short story match a great epic or novel?

[YesNo]

If it is shorter there is more chance that more people will finish it.

[Lendo]

The length of a book does not say anything about the quality of the work. There are incredible and majestic short books, some of them are included in the list of the best books of all time: "The Death of Ivan Ilyitch", "The Stranger", "Metamorphose", "The Fall", "Memories of my melancholy whores", "Confession", "Elephant's Memory", etc.

Threw out the years, i learned that the length of the book as absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the book.

[Emil Miller]

The Great Gatsby is less than 150 pp. long and is arguably the greatest American novel ever.

[Leopard]

The length of a book does not say anything about the quality of the work. There are incredible and majestic short books, some of them are included in the list of the best books of all time: "The Death of Ivan Ilyitch", "The Stranger", "Metamorphose", "The Fall", "Memories of my melancholy whores", "Confession", "Elephant's Memory", etc.

Threw out the years, i learned that the length of the book as absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the book.


The Great Gatsby is less than 150 pp. long and is arguably the greatest American novel ever.

All of those are long enough to be considered novels or at least novellas though. I was thinking more of very short works, such as a sonnet or a single short story in a collection.

[Leopard]

Bump because of the spam.

[YesNo]

In terms of influence, regardless of quality, the short but successful song lyric will be better known and offer more pleasure to more people than even a high-quality novel. People have a limited time to consume literature and no more than a lifetime.

[JCamilo]

The thing... a great literature work may be filled with what Rossetti called "momment's momument". We may be talking about the begining lines of Tale of two cities, Ophelia's Death, The list of books in Quixote's library, The meeting between Dante and Ulysses, or the description of love in How do I love thee. Those momments are the joy of literature. The thing is, in Dante there is space for him meeting with Ulysses, then his farewell to Virgil or Beatrice ascension in Heaven. The same goes for Quixote, Hamlet, etc. They are all precious, but the small works are like a solitaire.

[Leopard]

In terms of influence, regardless of quality, the short but successful song lyric will be better known and offer more pleasure to more people than even a high-quality novel. People have a limited time to consume literature and no more than a lifetime.

Well, more people listen to songs than read novels, but I don't think short works in general necessarily reach a wider audience.


The thing... a great literature work may be filled with what Rossetti called "momment's momument". We may be talking about the begining lines of Tale of two cities, Ophelia's Death, The list of books in Quixote's library, The meeting between Dante and Ulysses, or the description of love in How do I love thee. Those momments are the joy of literature. The thing is, in Dante there is space for him meeting with Ulysses, then his farewell to Virgil or Beatrice ascension in Heaven. The same goes for Quixote, Hamlet, etc. They are all precious, but the small works are like a solitaire.

Yeah, I guess a short work can't match a long work in number of such moments. But on the other hand a short work is likely a more even experience, more consistent in quality throughout.

[YesNo]

Well, more people listen to songs than read novels, but I don't think short works in general necessarily reach a wider audience.


I agree that they don't necessarily reach a wider audience. Neither the long nor the short work may reach any audience outside the author. Let me rephrase my claim to only say that the shorter work has a better chance of having been read or heard or watched than the longer work.

[Lendo]

A greater number of good moments does not necessary result in a greater work. Too many can be too much. The consistency of the book, the quality of the book, the genious of the writing and the message make's the quality of the book. Using an example that i already mentioned: Toltoi's "The Death of Ivan Ilyitch" has less than 200 pages, and i know very few books as powerful, as magnificent and majestic as that Tolstoi's work.

[JCamilo]

Ok, please give me an example where too many good momments is too much?

And really, Ivan Ilytch is an example of genius of the writing? What exactly the good count did that showed his genius? How this contradicts the idea of good momment?

[Lendo]

A big number of good moments does not result in a great book if there is no logic relation between them, if there is no consistency in the storyline, if there is no coherence between those good moments. I rather read a short book with a story masterfully written, which story goes along beautifully and that achieves the goals of the writer perfectly (in terms of the story itself, and concerning the message and the moral behind the storyline) than read a big book, with a lot of good moments, but that is not that good as an overall work, a book that despite the big number of good moments is not that powerful and meaningful.

The Death of Ivan Ilyich is the perfect example how a short book can be a masterpiece, and how a genious like Tolstoi can make a short book such a remarkable book. It's one of the best books about our existence, about life and death, about human nature that was ever written. If you don't agree... well, everybody has their own opinion. But i'll disagree completely.

[JCamilo]

Man, you basically repeated yourself with another words and ignored my three questions completely.

Can you give me an example of such book filled with many good momments but that is a bad book? When too much good is bad? And please, I am not talking abou storylines. Sonnets do not have storylines, literature is not resumed to narratives. Also, you cannot tell the goal of Kafka, can you? And the circular logic "this is a masterful work because it is written masterfully" does not say much. Just list examples of such works.

And can you tell me what in Ivan Ilytch shows Tolstoi writting genius? And how the book contradicts the idea of good momment? I have given no judgement of the work, so you do not need to worry if I agree or not. I am not questioning your opinion, only asking what justifies your claim. And since everything we write is about us, saying is the best book abou human nature, means little. Not to mention, the theme of a book is hardly something about quality.

[Lendo]

1- I did refer a book in specific because... i was not talking about a book in particular. I said a general idea: a big book is not necessarly better than a smaller book. I can not give you now an example of a book that was bad because it was big, in part because i have some difficulties considering a book "BAD" as a complete definition. But i can give multiple examples of smaller books that i considered superior to bigger books, and specify these ones. I can give examples of A vs B in terms of a smaller book being, in my opinion, superior to a bigger one.

2- You can not understand the message of Kafka's books? You can not understand the "goal" of Kafka behind "Metamorphose" or in "The Process"? Well...

3- I never said that the theme of a book, or the theme of a specific book says something about the quality of such book. Now you are just making things up.

4- Ivan Ilyich is a very good book, a remarkable book because of the way how Tolstoi presents the human nature, the relationship between people in more clear or more sublime ways. The way he analysis human behavior torwards others, how he builds a book on selfishness, loneliness, the desire to live, the perception of death. How he builds a character whose's thoughts and ideas describe perfectly what we (realize that we) feel about life and death, the touching and emotional way he transforms a strong and ambitious character into a melancholy, weak and vulnerable person, in a perfect metaphore of the fragility of life and the fragility of the human being at the most simple aspect. The thing behind Tolstoi's book is not the theme. It's the way he take's a powerful theme, he work's it masterfuly and create's a powerful book.

I think that it's impossible for a person to read The Death of Ivan Ilyich and be indifferent to it, not to be touched by the book. In a way that few books do. That's what say's something about the book's quality, how he impacts the reader perception.

[JCamilo]

1 - Well, the reason why you cannot refer to a specific book is because such book does not exist. All the works that have several good momments are among the best works ever produced: The Bible, 1001 Nights, Quixote, Hamlet, Iliad, Aneid, etc. Simple to confirm what I suggested, that a great work of literature has those momments of joy and the bigger works usually have more of those momments. As a small work, being better than a bigger? Sure, I can list a hundred sonnets that are better than hundred novels, but that is not the same as "having many momments of joy could make the book bad". It is about small works with those momments compared to big works with no joy at all.

2 - You can? So please, you must stop the whole debate about Kafka's intentions, meaning, etc. Kafka's specialists are debating about his works since ever. It would be a great advance for the critical studies of Kafka if they can reach a consensus.

3 - You mention that "It's one of the best books about our existence, about life and death, about human nature that was ever written. ". You made a reference to the theme of the book. I am not making things up.

4 - Which is the way? You said a few times "how he builds" or "the way he", but you do not say much about those ways. You just mentions that there is such "way", I can accept a vague, almost spiritual power, the way, but I am not sure if that is the same thing you want to express. I am well aware it is about that Tolstoi show the degradation of a character, his moral evolution pararel with the physical disease evolution, I am well aware it is an emotional trip to that character inner self, but somehow it seems to me that you talk more about your reading experience than Tolstoi writting process.

Yes, if a book has the capacity to affect many readers for a long time, it means the book has some quality. But you know what. People say the same about Paulo Coelho's The Alchemist. All you talk about Ivan Ilitch could be easily said by a Paulo Coelho fan. Then my suggest, find out what in Ivan Ilitch is the joy i talk (i am well aware the use of Joy here is misleading, but I am borrowing the word from Borges), you may have even listed it, it is not only about internal coherence or technical skill, It is that thing that set aparts The Alchemist from Ivan Ilitch.