Jesus in Islam

[zianizinou]

Islam respect and revere Jesus (peace be upon him) and muslims respect and venerate Jesus Christ more of christians themselves and they consider him to be one of God’s greatest messengers to humankind. and his mother Mary is regarded as one of the most pure and exalted women of all creation, Three chapters of the Quran feature the life of Jesus, his mother Mary and their family,there is a chapter in the Quran named Mary and she is mentioned 34 times in the Quran, She is honored greatly in Islam,each reveals details not found in the Bible.
the Christian does not know that In the Holy Quran Jesus (pbuh) is mentioned by name five times more than the number of times the prophet of Islam is mentioned in the Book of God.
in islame one cannot be a Muslim without believing in Jesus.
alot of muslims are calling their sons jesus (issa) because they respect and love and venerate Jesus Christ,but what i don't understand why Christians don't call their sons (issa) although they consider him as son of god????

It is sad that many Christians do not know that Jesus, peace be upon him, holds a very high position within Islam.

[OrphanPip]

Jesus is a very common name in Mexico. While in English it is an unusual name, you do however often see Christopher and Christine/Christina, which are just another common derived named from Christ. Traditionally it was considered sacrilege by some Christians to name your child after an angel or after Christ (Particularly amongst Protestants who had a stricter interpretation of what constituted sacrilege). Thus, many people named their children after the apostles or saints. The stigma against naming your child Jesus has stuck around in English even though most people don't care about sacrilege very much, and names like Michael and Gabriel are very common now.

[Pompey Bum]

Welcome to the site, zianizinou. If want to be a missionary, may I suggest you get an simpler user name? :)

As Pip pointed out, Jesus is a common name among Christians in some areas. This is not a problem for Christians who follow the Trinitarian doctrine (the vast majority) teaching that Jesus was fully human, but many choose not to do so because the doctrine also teaches he was (simultaneously) fully divine. Muslims do not name their children Allah, and yet they love God no less. So what's the problem?

Is there a reason you have not answered the question I asked you (three times) on your other thread? I am trying to have a respectful discussion with you, but when you reject two-sided dialogue it makes me suspect that you are simply spamming the site with previously written material--perhaps material you have been given by someone else. I hope I am wrong about that. Am I?

Here is my previous question. I hoped it might help us get beyond characterizations of the other and make for a less polemical dialogue. If you are interested in having a respectful discussion, then let's have one. Once again, sir, I have the honor to wish you God's blessing.


And I have a question to ask of the OP before Scheherazade shuts the thread down. You have made a claim that "most Christians dislike Prophet Muhammad." There are about 2.2 billion Christians in the world. I am asking you respectfully to document your claim that more than 50% of us dislike Muhammad. If you cannot do so, then I call upon your honesty as a Muslim to admit as much in this forum. I'm looking forward to your response. And God bless you, too, sir.

[Danik 2016]

In Brazil the name Jesus is rather common as first name, middle name and even surname.
Your foremost interest seems to be religion, ziani. I suggest you have a look around for the Muslim members of the LitNet community.
However if your sole aim is conversion to Islam, don´t waste your time on this forum. People like to discuss all kinds of subjects, but every one here is satisfied with his/her religion.

[YesNo]

the Christian does not know that In the Holy Quran Jesus (pbuh) is mentioned by name five times more than the number of times the prophet of Islam is mentioned in the Book of God.
in islame one cannot be a Muslim without believing in Jesus.
alot of muslims are calling their sons jesus (issa) because they respect and love and venerate Jesus Christ,but what i don't understand why Christians don't call their sons (issa) although they consider him as son of god????

It is sad that many Christians do not know that Jesus, peace be upon him, holds a very high position within Islam.

I don't intend to take a poll to justify my view, but I think many Christians know that Muslims think highly of Jesus. The problem is some of the more vocal ones want you to also believe that Jesus is Allah. I know that sounds ridiculous. My view is that we are all Allah at some mysterious level and so I am in no better position than you are.

Based on my subjective view of Christianity, however, I would say most Christians couldn't care less what Muslims think about Jesus.

Edit: It occurred to me that if you just say you are a "Christian" but continue believing whatever you want, you will make those Christians happy. Then they can say they have 2.2 billion Christians on their side along with the 1.5 billion Muslims (opps, Christians) also on their side. Big brother doesn't have time to be too picky.

[zianizinou]

Welcome to the site, zianizinou. If want to be a missionary, may I suggest you get an simpler user name? :)

As Pip pointed out, Jesus is a common name among Christians in some areas. This is not a problem for Christians who follow the Trinitarian doctrine (the vast majority) teaching that Jesus was fully human, but many choose not to do so because the doctrine teaches he was simultaneously fully divine. Muslims do not name their children Allah, and yet they love God no less. So what's the problem?

Is there a reason you have not answered the question I asked you (three times) on your other thread? I am trying to have a respectful discussion with you, but when you reject two-sided dialogue it makes me suspect that you are simply spamming the site with previously written material--perhaps material you have been given by someone else. I hope I am wrong about that. Am I?

Here is my previous question. I hoped it might help us get beyond characterizations of the other and make for a less polemical dialogue. If you are interested in having a respectful discussion, then let's have one. Once again, sir, I have the honor to wish you God's blessing.

in islam we don't name our children allah ( god) but we calling our sons ‘Abdullāh it's mean "servant of God" Humility before God is a favorite name among Muslims

because allah ( GOD ) is a Supreme Being free of human limitations, and is completely separate from His creation, God has attributes of perfection whereas Man is the opposite, likening or associating the human with God or qualities of lesser beings to Him is considered to be the greatest sin in Islam,.
Allah ( GOD) has no partners, no equals and no rivals Allah ,There is nothing above or comparable to Allah There is nothing that exists except that it is completely subservient to Him .
Allah has described Himself in the Quran through His Names and Attributes , he has ( God) 99 name,also known as The 99 attributes of Allah, Each Name and Attribute nourishes a kind of consciousness and humility.

[Whifflingpin]

Christians recognise that God is not contained within definitions but has infinite attributes. Christians consider it sufficient that we created beings recognise three of those attributes, namely that God is creator of all things, sustains all things and reconciles all things to Itself. Commonly these attributes are given the names of Father, Holy Spirit and Son.

[Pompey Bum]

Thank you for your personal response. I appreciate it. Out of politeness I will stop asking you to document your claim that most Christians dislike Muhammad. Perhaps it would have been more accurate to have said it was your personal impression was that most Christians dislike Muhammad and then to have asked whether it was true and why. But I don't think we need to pursue it any longer.


in islam we don't name our children allah ( god) but we calling our sons ‘Abdullāh it's mean "servant of God" Humility before God is a favorite name among Muslims

A very large number Westerners have names that incorporate God's name in the way that Abdullah does. These include Daniel, Samuel, Theodore, Dorothy, and many, many others. I certainly don't think it would be fair to say that Christians love Jesus less because Muslims name their children Muhammad more often than Christians name theirs Jesus (if that, indeed, was what you were implying). Pip and I have provided evidence for this position above. But even beyond those things, the Christian conception of Jesus cannot be compared to Muhammad in the way that the Muslim conception of Jesus can be. And therein lie differences that cannot be resolved in this age without compassion and trust in God.


because allah ( GOD ) is a Supreme Being free of human limitations, and is completely separate from His creation, God has attributes of perfection whereas Man is the opposite, likening or associating the human with God or qualities of lesser beings to Him is considered to be the greatest sin in Islam,. Allah ( GOD) has no partners, no equals and no rivals Allah ,There is nothing above or comparable to Allah There is nothing that exists except that it is completely subservient to Him .
Allah has described Himself in the Quran through His Names and Attributes , he has ( God) 99 name,also known as The 99 attributes of Allah, Each Name and Attribute nourishes a kind of consciousness and humility.

Thank you for sharing such personal and obviously heartfelt beliefs with us. Christianity joins Islam in affirming that God is one and uncreated and that creation itself is not to be worshipped. According to Christians, Jesus is the logos theou--the mind or idea of God, uncreated and coeternal with God. In the words of the Evangelist John: "All things were made through him and without him was nothing made that was made." Obviously Muslims and Christians do not agree on that point. I will not try to convince you of it; but I do ask you with respect to consider that (whichever of us may be right on this point), our faiths share a common belief that God is one, uncreated, and not to be confused with creation. Thus we are categorically different from atheists and nature worshippers (pagans).

Confusion between the faiths arises from the Christian belief that God's infinite compassion led him to bear the human condition with us. Thus (again to quote John) "the word was made flesh and dwelt among us." This, I think, leads Muslims to conclude that Christianity worships the created and is thus tainted with paganism. But for Christians, Jesus' incarnation is not the same as creation--indeed Jesus himself is the Creator.

And yes, I know that view is vehemently rejected by Islam. But you are not converting me or my 2.2 billion, and I am not converting you or your 1.6 billion. So the question becomes: how are we going to live with one another? Personally I do not believe we need to convert or pretend that we are all the same. Rather (in my opinion) we need to bear our differences with patience and compassion and trust one another to God. That would not solve all the problems, but it has the potential to solve some of them. I can't help but think, though, that we are far away from that solution. What are your thoughts?

[zianizinou]

Personally I do not believe we need to convert or pretend that we are all the same. But wee need to bear our differences with patience and compassion and trust one another to God. That would not solve all the problems, but it has the potential to solve some of them. I can't help but think, though, that we are far away from that solution. What are your thoughts?

Christianity and Islam share much common ground. Both trace their roots to Abraham. Both believe in prophecy, God's messengers (apostles), revelation, scripture, the resurrection of dead, and the centrality of religious community. This last element is especially important.

[Pompey Bum]

Christianity and Islam share much common ground. Both trace their roots to Abraham. Both believe in prophecy, God's messengers (apostles), revelation, scripture, the resurrection of dead, and the centrality of religious community. This last element is especially important.

That is only a cut and paste of what you wrote to MT on another thread. It can also be found verbatim on a webpage called "Islam and Christianity," which presents "a summary of a lecture by a western islamologist and theologian" :

http://www.answering-islam.org/Intro/comparison.html

And again (also word for word) on a webpage called "Similarities and Dissimilarities between Islam and Christianity":

http://www.academia.edu/3716864/Similarities_and_Dissimilarities_between_Islam_and _Christianity

When I asked for your thoughts, I meant your own thoughts about making things better between Christianity and Islam. I took several hours to write a sincere and respectful message to you. Why have you responded in such a dismissive fashion? And more importantly, what are your thoughts on the improving things between our faiths?

[YesNo]

That is only a cut and paste of what you wrote to MT on another thread. It can also be found verbatim on this webpage, which presents "a summary of a lecture by a western islamologist and theologian" called "Islam and Christianity":

http://www.answering-islam.org/Intro/comparison.html

And again (also word for word) on this webpage called "Similarities and Dissimilarities between Islam and Christianity":

http://www.academia.edu/3716864/Similarities_and_Dissimilarities_between_Islam_and _Christianity

When I asked for your thoughts, I meant your own thoughts about making things better between Christianity and Islam. I took several hours to write a sincere and respectful message to you. Why have you responded in such a dismissive fashion? And more importantly, what are your thoughts on the improving things between our faiths?

I don't think zianizinou is being dismissive of you. English is not likely his first language. Also he probably wants to make sure his theology's right.

At the point where the two of you are starting to agree with each other, why are you, the guy on the Christian side, trying to nit-pick a legalistic fight with zianizinou? Does the spirit of the law allowing one to break the law only apply when it is to the Christian's advantage? Is that another example of Christian love?

A few days ago I came up with another theory about Western atheism thanks to these threads. Protestant Christianity and Western atheism arose about the same time. They are beginning to look more and more alike to me. One could look at modern atheism as not just a religion but also a Protestant religion. More on that later if I get or take the opportunity.

Here are a few polite, respectful, personal questions for both you and zianizinou to help improve the civil discussion.

1) Do either Muslims or Christians think that the other is going to hell because of their position on Jesus?

2) Will the two of you stop wasting your time trying to convert each other to your respective religions?

Regarding question 1), if either of you need practice damning someone to hell, you are welcome to practice on me.

[Pompey Bum]

You're cute when you're angry, YesNo.

Are you still there Mr zianizinou?

[mona amon]

in islam we don't name our children allah ( god) but we calling our sons ‘Abdullāh it's mean "servant of God" Humility before God is a favorite name among Muslims

Where I come from, Christians call their sons Yesudas or Jesudas, which means devotee of Yesu, but most of us would consider it irreverent to name them Jesus, since in Christianity Jesus is God, not a prophet or something.



alot of muslims are calling their sons jesus (issa) because they respect and love and venerate Jesus Christ,...

I know someone (a Muslim) called Issa but I never made the connection to the name 'Jesus'. We learn something new every day! :)

[mona amon]

1) Do either Muslims or Christians think that the other is going to hell because of their position on Jesus?

YesNo, I do not believe I've ever heard anything about Hell from any pulpit in all my 30 years or more of being a regular church-goer. I thought it was the Calvinists who used to focus on eternal damnation, but that was a long time ago.

[Pompey Bum]

Where I come from, Christians call their sons Yesudas or Jesudas, which means devotee of Yesu, but most of us would consider it irreverent to name them Jesus, since in Christianity Jesus is God, not a prophet or something.

It is odd that people in many cultures choose not to name their children Jesus for the reasons you mention, but (here in the west at least) names like Christopher (Christ carrier), Christa (Miss/Mrs Christ), and Christine/Christina (Little Miss/Mrs Christ) are common. Christ, of course, is a divine title rather than a surname. It seems counter intuative to use Christ-based names rather than Jesus, but that's the way it's done.

[mona amon]

Oh, we have our Christines, Christophers, Cristabelles...as long as they're giving them an 'English' name. :D

[Pompey Bum]

Oh, we have our Christines, Christophers, Cristabelles...as long as they're giving them an 'English' name. :D

It's funny the way that works. Dennis is just the modern spelling of Dionysius, a popular name among ancient and early Medieval Christians even though it evoked the name Dionysus--a pagan god some identified with the devil. At a certain point, cultures just appropriate names as their own.

[YesNo]

YesNo, I do not believe I've ever heard anything about Hell from any pulpit in all my 30 years or more of being a regular church-goer. I thought it was the Calvinists who used to focus on eternal damnation, but that was a long time ago.

I don't know if Muslims or Christians do or don't believe the other is going to hell. It could be just the extremists who hold these positions.

Here's something that popped up when I asked the question "are Muslims going to hell": http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/billions_of_people_going_to_hell.htm

Here's one that popped up when I asked "are Christians going to hell": https://sites.google.com/site/muslimanswers/Home/contradictions/jews-christians

[Pompey Bum]

Oh hey, just take it as feedback. ;-)

Here's what popped up for me:

http://paranormalistics.blogspot.com/p/what-is-bigfoot.html

[YesNo]

Oh hey, just take it as feedback. ;-)


Well, you have to admit, it was better than the feedback I got about the Church of England canonizing Thomas More.

[Pompey Bum]

ZING!

You still there, Mr zianizinou?

[YesNo]

I think part of the problem that zianizinou has with Christianity is the same one that I have. He wants to know why Christians don't love Muslims in one thread although their missionaries jawbone about love. I wonder also. He is puzzled by their relationship to Jesus: why don't they name their children after him if they believe in him so much? That one is easier to answer. It is just a cultural difference and if you count all the variations, Christians do name their children after religious people, angels or ideas. But I can see how this might make someone wonder just how much Christians actually believe in Jesus or if they really believe what their missionaries say they believe.

While going to the gym for a weekly yoga class I was thinking about these book religions. In their own ways, they are doing a sort of "literal" yoga with the way they conform their words and actions to their sacred texts. Since these practices vary this leads to confusion.

I can trust that Muslims believe what they say they believe. They take their texts and the words they say seriously, much like atheists take their deterministic, sacred mathematical texts seriously. When a Muslim or an atheist tells you something you can be assured they really do believe what they are telling you. The content of their beliefs may be nonsense, but their practice insists that they actually believe that content.

But this mixture of text, belief and confidence that you can believe what the practitioner is saying varies considerably more with the Christian religions (and perhaps even the Jewish religions). At one extreme there are some Protestant sects where "faith" takes severe precedence over "works". For these people it doesn't matter what you do, just say you believe in baby Jesus and you are "saved" as long as you are not caught or can't talk your way out of the mess you made if you are caught.

When Muslims (or anyone else trying to get a straight answer) are confronted with those sorts of Christians an unavoidable cultural confusion arises. The best thing to do is to recognize the problem and get out of the way.

[Pompey Bum]

Well, he didn't seem that clueless to me, but hey, maybe you were channeling the guy. What did you think about the idea that Bigfoot is a ghost? I mean it would account for a lot.

[mona amon]

Here's something that popped up when I asked the question "are Muslims going to hell": http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/billions_of_people_going_to_hell.htm


Seriously, if that guy's going to heaven, I'd rather go to Hell! :rolleyes:

[Pompey Bum]

Seriously, if that guy's going to heaven, I'd rather go to Hell! :rolleyes:

When I was a little boy I used to worry about going to Heaven. I had this dinosaur book that assured me all these scary, flesh-eating monsters it was showing me were long dead. So where did they go? Probably to Heaven, right? I don't think I knew a lot about hell in those days, but Heaven didn't strike me as all that much of a bargain either. I actually used to brood about this. I was a weird kid.

[YesNo]

Well, he didn't seem that clueless to me, but hey, maybe you were channeling the guy. What did you think about the idea that Bigfoot is a ghost? I mean it would account for a lot.

Bigfoot? I thought it was just another dismissive comment of yours. We can discuss Bigfoot in an appropriate thread.

What is more relevant to this thread is the process of bearing false witness. My prime example is the WMD claim made by the Bush administration in spite of UN inspectors saying that Iraq had no WMDs, but I don't think it stops there. It seems to me to be something peculiar to a certain type of Protestantism and it makes it difficult to discuss anything with these Protestants because I cannot trust them not to lie.

Here's an example. You recently led me to believe that the Church of England "canonized" Thomas More. Why did you do that? I would consider that bearing false witness against the Church of England. Apparently you knew better. Maybe you thought what they did was an effective canonization. The bottom line, however, is the same: You have lost credibility.

Here's another example. After zianizinou gave you an appropriate response, you wrote the following:


When I asked for your thoughts, I meant your own thoughts about making things better between Christianity and Islam. I took several hours to write a sincere and respectful message to you. Why have you responded in such a dismissive fashion? And more importantly, what are your thoughts on the improving things between our faiths?

You bore false witness against zianizinou for being "dismissive" when you are the one who was dismissive.

So, my question to you is why? I am suggesting that your version of Protestantism allows you to engage in any means ("works") whatsoever to gain whatever end you want because your "faith" ultimately "saves" you. Do you have another explanation?

I used to think Catholics had it easy. All they had to do was go to confession and get their sins forgiven. No karma for them. I realize now that Protestants don't even have to bother with confession with their Get-Out-Of-Hell-Free faith card.

[Pompey Bum]

Bigfoot? I thought it was just another dismissive comment of yours. We can discuss Bigfoot in an appropriate thread.

You post examples of Christians and Muslims saying ignorant things because you are angry that: 1) your facile argument about a supposed Christian attack on Islam was easily shot down; 2) you were unable to contribute to what zianizinou and I were saying so you chose to tantrum for attention instead; and 3) I have repeatedly refused to engage your baiting.

So why flee the field when I ask your opinion about Bigfoot being a ghost? After all, you believe in Bigfoot and you believe in ghosts. Why should I not "seek to understand" people who embrace paranormal beliefs just as you claim to be doing with the beliefs of Christians and Muslims? Or could it be that you are only building stereotypes in an attempt to fortify your pre-existing religious prejudices? That you have no interest in anyone's beliefs unless they fit what you already want to hear?


What is more relevant to this thread is the process of bearing false witness. My prime example is the WMD claim made by the Bush administration in spite of UN inspectors saying that Iraq had no WMDs, but I don't think it stops there.

Take it up with the secular authority that authorized the war, YesNo. And you can drop the argumentum ad nauseam while you're at it. Repeating the same discredited argument over and over doesn't make it so. It's just another way to insist on something you already want to believe.


It seems to me to be something peculiar to a certain type of Protestantism and it makes it difficult to discuss anything with these Protestants because I cannot trust them not to lie. Here's an example. You recently led me to believe that the Church of England "canonized" Thomas More. Why did you do that? I would consider that bearing false witness against the Church of England. Apparently you knew better. Maybe you thought what they did was an effective canonization. The bottom line, however, is the same: You have lost credibility..

Ah, here you are hoisted by your own petard, I'm afraid. If you check the thread you are talking about you will find that it was you who said More had been canonized by the Church of England and I who corrected you (go on, look it up). What I did say is that the Church of England had made More a saint in the 1980s, and this they did. If you still don't know the difference between that and canonization then it's time you stopped preaching (especially when you are accusing an honest man of lying) and attempted some learning.

That also ends the conversation. I am old fashioned enough to regard an accusation of lying as a slight against my character (which is clearly what you intended). So here's what happens next: I remove your name from my friend list (done). This is a sad thing for me at least. You were one of my first friends here, YesNo, and we have had some meaningful talks and good laughs together. You have until tomorrow to apologize without reservation by personal message (only). If I do not receive an apology or if you try to draw out this conversation in a public forum, then you will immediately become my second ignore status. Your posts will be blocked from me, we will have no further interactions, and I will cease to think about you (trust me, that's exactly how it works). I regret that it has come to this. I have no wish to be coercive, so please only apologize if you mean it. The bird is in your hands.

[YesNo]

No apologies, Pompey Bum. That WMD stunt will haunt Protestant Christianity for a long time.

[Pompey Bum]

Toodles.