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EmptySeraph
08-26-2016, 06:19 PM
More often than now I hear the refrain that always comes back like some sort of trenchant reverberation to crush my skull: ''I cannot read this book. It's too hard, too complex. I don't understand it. I don't get the point.'' Fair enough. You don't understand it. Perhaps you weren't meant to understand. But seriously, why do you put such an emphasis on understanding? Who says that you absolutely have to understand? Who says that a book has a certain message you must, under any circumstances, receive and perceive? Who, in the end, said the author owes you any explanation? I'm completely perplexed, dumbfound, smitten when I realise that some people imagine literature as some kind of dialogue in which the writer tells a story and the reader capturates the message and later deforms it with its own mind and conscience. It's the most lamentable and false definition of literature I've ever came across. I could keep going with this protest and explain it over and over again, but I think quoting Mallarmé suffices: Everything in the world exists in order to end up as a book.

Now, it's time to reveal the true purpose of this thread, and to quote Mallarmé for a second time, the flesh is sad, alas, and I have read all the books. I want to read books, but I have none to choose from. I need recommendations. I need titles. However, not any kind of books. I'm thinking of those books that give people nightmares because of their intolerably complex architecture and unbreathable dense content. Books that seem to have been written in the dark, deep down bellow, where no beam of light could possibly enlighten their lines and make them more comprehensible. I'm looking after obscure books, after books that do not, at any cost, want to reveal their secret, to just give away their esence. Insanely cryptic books, in fact, hermetic books, books whose main purpose is, at last, not to be understood. Pay attention, I'm speaking about literature, about fiction, so to say. I want to find some books that resemble unending sesions of torment, that require extreme attention to even grasp their ideas, their nuances, their obsessions, their parfume...

Books akin to Ulysses, Finnegans Wake, Gravity's Rainbow, you know, books that take some time, at least...

Any idea?

P.S.: I've already read the ones influenced by those named above, I'm quite acquainted with a fair share of post-modern literature...

El Entenado
08-26-2016, 06:41 PM
One book which, in my opinion, is very complex, even though it doesn't feel that complex at the first sight, is Los Pasos Perdidos by Alejo Carpentier.

I also feel like I should mention that the English translation is deformed, to quote the editor in charge of the deformation, "to be understandable by the stupid American". I haven't read the English translation, so I don't know how much the editor has managed to change the book.

EmptySeraph
08-26-2016, 07:20 PM
I'll try to read by him "El recurso del método”, the sole I could find available for now. Sadly I'm not competent in Spanish so I have to resign myself to a Romanian translation. Do you know anything about it?

YesNo
08-27-2016, 09:17 AM
You might find what you are looking for in poetry. Get an issue of "Poetry" where you will find a selection of writers. A few of them may fit what you are looking for. Then check out their blogs or publications.

I basically do that with the poetry journals I subscribe to. I look for authors I like (which are on the other end of the spectrum from what you are looking for) and then look at them more closely.

Red Terror
08-27-2016, 12:27 PM
I remember I was reading his Kingdom of this World and I found it very good. Pure genius.


I'll try to read by him "El recurso del método”, the sole I could find available for now. Sadly I'm not competent in Spanish so I have to resign myself to a Romanian translation. Do you know anything about it?

EmptySeraph
08-27-2016, 05:06 PM
You might find what you are looking for in poetry. Get an issue of "Poetry" where you will find a selection of writers. A few of them may fit what you are looking for. Then check out their blogs or publications.

I basically do that with the poetry journals I subscribe to. I look for authors I like (which are on the other end of the spectrum from what you are looking for) and then look at them more closely.

I was, and still am for that matter, and probably will still be for the rest of my life, since the very first line I read by him, under the influence of Paul Celan. His ''écriture d'ombres'' has fascinated me like nothing else, his obscure poetry, his reluctance to leave his tenebrae and create a facile piece of work. I also like Mallarmé and Valéry and Pound and Gertrude Stein and T.S. Eliot. Any more poets down this line?

YesNo
08-27-2016, 11:37 PM
Paul Celan's "Todesfugue" is famous. What you would get are relatively unknown, contemporary writers by reading these poetry journals. You could look at this process as going along a beach with pebbles and picking up a few that you happen to like and take them home until you get the chance to do that again. I have started a Google sheet where I list the poets I like from a journal along with links to their blogs or other writings. If I find the journal does not contain any writers that interest me, I move to other journals.

For a poet who is famous but died in the last century, what do you think of Robert Frost's "The Death of the Hired Man"? https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/44261