Novels and socal reform

[kev67]

The C19th was a period of social reform, at least in the UK it was, and no doubt throughout Europe and the America. Did books by Charles Dickens have any influence over legal reform and bureaucracy? Did Elizabeth Gaskell have any influence on improving master/worker relations? Did Thomas Hardy have any influence on marriage law? Did Charlotte Bronte have any influence on women's rights?

[Pompey Bum]

I'm under the impression that public outcry following publication of Nicholas Nickleby led to the closing of the notorious Yorkshire "schools" (or at least to their reform). I have also been told that the abuses of legal process at the center of Bleak House (which ate at Dickens because of his family history) had been largely reformed before the novel's publication. I may be wrong about either of those things, though, so if anyone knows better I will gladly stand corrected.

[kev67]

President Lincoln was supposed to have said to Harriet Beecher Stowe, author of Uncle Tom's Cabin, "So this is the little lady that started this great war," but Wikipedia says the story is apocraphal.

[prendrelemick]

It depends what you mean by influence, Being read by thousands of people must put ideas out there, and who knows what affect that has . I heard someone claiming on telly the other night that "The Water Babies" by Charles Kingsley had a direct affect on reforming child labour laws.

[Red Terror]

I'm under the impression that public outcry following publication of Nicholas Nickleby led to the closing of the notorious Yorkshire "schools" (or at least to their reform). I have also been told that the abuses of legal process at the center of Bleak House (which ate at Dickens because of his family history) had been largely reformed before the novel's publication. I may be wrong about either of those things, though, so if anyone knows better I will gladly stand corrected.

Orwell wrote an essay on Dickens, whose major point I agree with. Orwell went on to complain that Dickens' novels pretty much only said that capitalists should treat their workers a little better. As we all know, that is not the primary objective of capitalists. Their primary objective is to accumulate as much profits for their investors by exploiting labor as possible. Accumulate, Accumulate, Accumulate: That is the law and the prophets.

Workers are not paid enough in wages to buy back all the goods and services they create. Therefore, you have crises of overproduction. Marx was the first and the best analyst to discern this. Since his day, capitalists have belatedly come to recognize this, so they try to prevent crises by extending debt and borrowing. As we all know, the extension of credit has been pervasive like never before in recent decades. But those debts have to be paid back with interests or else we have an economic disaster, which is the state we're in in the world.

[prendrelemick]

Marx underestimated just how good the capitalist system is at looking after itself. (through credit, globalisation, governmental influence ect.), but as you say, he is being proved right very very slowly. Until the next capitalist leap forwards comes along.

[OrphanPip]

The C19th was a period of social reform, at least in the UK it was, and no doubt throughout Europe and the America. Did books by Charles Dickens have any influence over legal reform and bureaucracy? Did Elizabeth Gaskell have any influence on improving master/worker relations? Did Thomas Hardy have any influence on marriage law? Did Charlotte Bronte have any influence on women's rights?

Gaskell was a Unitarian and her views were progressive for the time but largely ignored like most Unitarian causes were. I think it's exceedingly rare that any literary work has a direct or immediate influence on a political change. Apart from The Jungle leading to new food safety laws in the US.

At the same time literature formed part of the discussion and had as much an influence as any political debate did on moving society towards one direction or another.

[kev67]

In Mary Barton by Elizabeth Gaskell, there is a character called John Barton, whose outlook is very left wing. He is a trade union leader and a Chartist. He went on a Chartist's demonstration march on Westminster, but they were unsuccessful in getting what they wanted. By about 40 years later, however, they had got most of what they wanted, such as universal suffrage (for men at least) and wages for Members of Parliament to enable people without a private income to stand for parliament. They did not get general elections every year, but every five years is not so bad.

Benjamin Disraeli was a prime minister and an author. He wrote a social novel called Sybil, which I have not read. Presumably, he thought novels could be influential, in shaping discussion, preparing the ground, etc.

[ennison]

In those days yes. Now it 's the electronic meejah .