Classical Guitar [Archive] - Literature Network Forums

desiresjab

08-08-2016, 12:54 AM

By now there are many fine classical guitar players across the globe. This is essentially all due to one man--Andres Segovia. When Segovia decided as a young teenager that he would revolutionize guitar playing, create a prestigious repetorie for the instrument through transcriptions and commissions, and see the instrument taught alongside other concert instruments at major universities throughout the world, he could have been pronounced mad. Yet Segovia lived to see all his goals accomplished, and he himself valued as one of the great geniuses of 20th century classical performance.

The guitar was nothing when he got hold of it in about 1900, a simple parlor instrument. Some great players from the past had composed some great music for it, the beginnings of a classical repetorie. In his day, Tarrega was still writing for and playing guitar in a corner somewhere, but Segovia never got to meet him. Segovia's new technique involved use of the right hand nails to amplify tone for concert audiences and to provide a broader palette of timbres. As notable as Bethoven had once remarked that the guitar was a miniature orchestra, but never wrote anything for it.

Segovia did spread his technique and ideas to droves of students, just as planned. In the early to mid 20th century, Segovia was the apotheosis of guitar playing. Of the other three superlative classical guitarists of that century, two, John Williams and Christopher Parkening, are Segovia students. The other, Julian Bream, came a different route to his genius.

Segovia was an autodidact, completely self taught in not only guitar playing but musical scholarship as well. Finally the world has broken the "Segovia hush," enough to admit the old master was sometimes wrong. That he had the natural gifts to interpret music as sensitively as he did, is amazing. But sometimes he was wrong in small scholarly ways.

Yepes understood 50 years ago that the second section of Weiss's Em fantasy should be played double time according to the original markings, but somehow this was lost on Segovia.

Those small issues aside, it is hard to find interpretations of many pieces as full and beautiful as Segovia's. My favorite version of any particular piece is always by one of the above four guitarists. No matter how good any others are, these four nearly always exceed them to my ears. Some players almost own certain pieces, because they will never be done better on guitar. Mudarra's Fantasia X will never be done better than John Williams does it. Britten's nocturne will never be done better than Bream does it. Bach's Sleeper's Awake cannot be done better than Parkening has already done it. This happens in popular music sometimes, too. How will anyone on guitar ever top Danny Gatton's version of Harlem Nocturne? They probably won't.

Some young players, some of whom are females, have awesome technique. It is unfortunate that technique has taken such precedence over musical expression. That broad palette of timbres is missiing among today's classical guitarists, in my opinion. It was in fact the weakest aspect of John Williams' game, though he may have had the greatest dynamic range and speed of anyone ever on the instrument to make up for it. To be the weakest in palette among those four still means to exceed most others by a mile. Williams had a palette, just not as broad as the other three.

desiresjab

08-08-2016, 08:34 PM

I thought that on a literature forum there might be some guitarists or musicians with an opinion or a love of the classical guitar. It is a commonly found sentiment among players and ardent fans that in the hands of a master the guitar is arguably more expressive than any other instrument.

desiresjab

08-09-2016, 03:10 AM

The most beautiful piece in the classical guitar repetoire, what is it? There is a lot to choose from. Quite a few would say Recuerdos de la Alhambra, one of Tarrega's masterpieces. I like Cancion de la Hilandera by Barrios as much, in a tight race. If I really had to choose, I guess I would pick La Maja de Goya, written by E. Granados for voice and piano. Performed by Segovia, this for me is the most beautiful piece. Below is a YouTube link to Segovia performing it. Unfortunately, the version may be slightly clipped at the beginning, but one gets the chance to hear a story and look at what I imagine is a fine painting, in addition to watching Segovia's technique (for guitarists only).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSlnhvYTB14

If you liked that, you might enjoy watching Segovia instructing a young vituoso in a master class on the finer points of performing this piece, from 1986, a year before the maestro's death.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRuKXNRC86Q

Lokasenna

08-09-2016, 04:56 AM

desiresjab

08-09-2016, 07:36 AM

I like classical guitar, though I'm no great expert on the form. Tarrega is always worth listening to, though in Spanish music (where classical guitar seems to find its home) it is impossible to escape the long shadow cast by Joaquín Rodrigo and his radiantly beautiful compositions, particularly his Concierto de Aranjuez and Fantasía para un gentilhombre.

Those are two of the greatest and most popular pieces. Did you know the famous melody of the second movement of Aranjuez came out of Rodrigo losing an infant son? That incredible sadness and melodrama came from somewhere real. I did not know that until a few days ago. His En los Triagles is one of the more enjoyable solo pieces from Segovia's abundant repetoire.

Much of what the great guitarists played can be heard and watched on YouTube. I love comparing versions of individual pieces, and am fascinated by being able to watch the technique of the masters in detail.

Finally, Segovia has gone a bit out of vogue. That has to happen when you are a god for a long time. A new scholarship has arisen to supplant some of his ideas of interpretation. Segovia is like Shakespeare, though--he cannot help but come back, and never leaves anyway. On almost every piece that I compare his performance to that of other guitarists, he prevails easily. Almost but not every piece. Bream gets a lot of energy and color into his baroque performances. They all have their greatest moments.

Segovia holds a distinction among all concert musicians, I believe, and that is a tonal palette which exceeds his peers on his instrument by the widest margin of any instrumentalist. What Segovia gets out of the notes he plays is what makes him the all time champ. He does it with color and dynamics together. His technique was so profound that he could put color and character on an individual note in a passage. Notes often jump out to startle me from reverie with their unusual qualities when I listen to him. The second widest spectrum of color belongs to Julian Bream. His is nothing less than spectacularly rich, yet Segovia is usually a mile ahead of even him in terms of putting every note to work and getting unexpected tones. These differences are subtle, they do not screech their difference like Hendrix oddness or announce themselves that way.

These subtle differences are what distinguish these artists from one another on the highest level. If technique includes the abilty to effortlessly produce any note in a wide palette of timbres wherever you choose, then Segovia had the best technique on guitar of anyone, not just the best color, for color is part of technique.

What I recommend for anyone is listening to a wide variety of classical guitarists. There are some rather great ones I have not named.

desiresjab

08-09-2016, 07:44 AM

I forgot to ask whose versions of those Rodrigo pieces you have been listening to?

North Star

08-09-2016, 09:06 AM

Danik 2016

08-09-2016, 10:49 AM

desiresjab

08-09-2016, 05:14 PM

I love the mention of Villa-Lobos, NS. Here is my favorite piece, though this one is not exactly for guitar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3x0pjUt1yQ

I don´t kno if it´s classical guitar but I enjoy the Flamenco music of Paco de Lucia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MZ_K7EmDEw

Villa Lobos was a guitar player himself. The music he wrote for guitar is considered some of the finest in the instrument's repetoire.

Paco de Lucia is not per se a classical guitarist, as flamenco is a different medium with a different history, repetoire and technique. He has the high talent, though, which it seems to me only a fool could deny, and there are some purists who might actually deny that. He loves music, of course, which includes classical guitar, as well. He made a recording of Concerto de Aranjuez, he loved that piece so much. He played it interestingly and as well as many classical guitarists could do.

It is kind of like this. Usain Bolt is not a 400 meter runner per se, either, but I would be willing to bet he could beat some of the top 400 meter guys with a little training for that event, or perhaps with no prepatory work for the event at all.

Do I think Paco could become a top classical guitarist at this point, or if he had started say twenty years ago when he was probably in his forties? Probably not, even for one as mighty as himself, but just maybe. The experts all said Christopher Parkening could never recover his former mastery after retiring from guitar for four years. But never bet against greatness. How many athletes have suffered injuries that all the doctors told them meant retirement, and then come back to compete at the highest level again?

desiresjab

08-09-2016, 07:09 PM

I used to play the guitar a long time ago, not for that many years - or hours, though.

Domeniconi's Koyunbaba is a fascinating piece, here in the John Williams recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO8q9tWp3OY

Some other composers whose guitar music I like that have not been mentioned so far: Takemitsu and Villa-Lobos.

Here's Leo Brouwer playing the Bach Chaconne, I'm just now listening to it for the first time, but it sounds quite special. (it's just an audio recording) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQbH6G8GPoM

That is the first time I had ever listened to Koyunbaba. Have to admit I am not familiar with Takemitsu, either. I will listen.

The vituosity of Williams is in full display mode. That must be the reason he chose to play it. There is much better music for guitar IMO. This piece is too droning for my tastes and sounds about the same all the way through. I prefer more harmonic complexity and please some melody. The nature of this piece has no melody. The rest of what I say is just personal opinion and personal taste, though I can give a detailed account of why so far after one more piece by him, I am not yet a big fan of Dominiconi's composition. So far it sounds to me like a guitarist who has strung together a bunch of impressive, odd sounding licks, often involvong familiar inversions (to most guitarists) of minor 9th chords, employing open strings where he drones on and on. It sounds more like the New Age music of Hodgson and that milieu than it does evolved classical music. In my opinion, after only two pieces mind you, he has the necessary virtuosity but not the harmonic complexity to be a major composer for guitar. I will keep listening. Sometimes modern classical has to grow on you. But I think I guessed about right. I know how guitarists think. Domeniconi is apparently a virtuoso guitarist who also composes. I am doubting I will place him on a level with Sor, Tarrega and Barrios. But I will keep listening, because I know better than not to.

desiresjab

08-09-2016, 08:05 PM

Variation on an Anatolian Folk Song is better already, yet droning on the drop D Tuning already. Much more variety and musicality in this piece. Much of his harmony sounds Medieval, heavy on the 4ths and 5ths. The problem still for me is that he never descends into pure beauty as Britten does at the end of his guitar Nocturne. He has much in common with flashy encore pieces, except I would not want to hear his music as an encore either. It sounds a little too primitive, despite the modern dissonances. Never been a big fan of primitive music, except in movies where it can enhance.

Here we are at his Homage to Jimi Hendrix. I will hand it to him for moments of interest. But only moments. Is there actually a point to this piece, besides showing off and capitalizing on the name of Hendrix?

desiresjab

08-10-2016, 04:51 AM

Does anyone like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4NSXMdxG-U

North Star

08-10-2016, 11:47 AM

I'm not too keen on Debussy transcribed to guitar. The Satie I've heard (chiefly from Pierre Laniau) works better, I think.

Fair enough, regarding Domeniconi, desiresjab, and I sure agree that he is no Tarrega or Britten.

Regarding transcriptions, and Segovia - here he plays the Bach Chaconne.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcGt9AFlIPY

desiresjab

08-10-2016, 08:09 PM

Just the difference in tastes, I guess. I am crazy about this performance and piece of music. In the comments to the video another gentleman claims it is his transcription from decades ago. He indeed plays it, but the quality of sound and picture is so poor on his video I cannot tell if the other guy is using his transcription or not. He is trying to play it ridiculously fast anyway.

desiresjab

08-12-2016, 12:56 AM

My favorite guitar piece and I can't figure out what the title means. Who speaks Spanish here? What the heck does La maja de Goya mean? What does pestle have to do with anything? Is it some kind of colloqialism?

Danik 2016

08-12-2016, 01:29 AM

It´s a famous, or rather, two famous paintings of the same woman by Goya:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_maja_desnuda

desiresjab

08-12-2016, 06:41 PM

It´s a famous, or rather, two famous paintings of the same woman by Goya:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_maja_desnuda

Thanks. That wasn't so hard. Maja came out as pestle on the google translator, which had me confused.

Speaking of Brazil, ahem! Since I was 13 years old, I have loved the sound of Los Indios Tabajaras. They knew how to express a melody.

Danik 2016

08-12-2016, 09:44 PM

desiresjab

08-13-2016, 01:19 AM

Google sometimes surpasses itself!

Never heard of "Los Indios Tabajaras", though I remember well RCA Victor, their longplay trademark.Why the heck did they choose a Spanish name?
Read about them, one of them has died meanwhile.
I remember very well this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rQheOglFos

I do not know why they chose a Spanish name, my dear, or when. Interesting question. Perhaps that name came only after their popularity in Mexico.

Los Indios Tabajaras should be a serious research project for someone, before it is too late to ever know the real facts. Widows or relatives are bound to still be alive. The widows would know something. There is your project, my dear. I really wish you would do it.

Also a biography of Agustin Barrios Mangore would be cherished, but it would have to be translated into English, for surely it must be researched and written first in Spanish.

desiresjab

08-13-2016, 05:11 PM

Los Indios Tabajaras were not classical musicians per se who played concert halls for classical music enthusiasts, but popularizers of famous melodies on guitar who obviously had a lot of talent and at least some formal musical training. I'll call him Nico for short, had great command of the guitar and had a way with popular melodies. Nico was to south America what Chet Atkins was to north America.

Danik 2016

08-13-2016, 09:19 PM

desiresjab

08-13-2016, 09:33 PM

It would be a good project, yes, but it takes someone who does research about music and musicians, which is not my case.
I merely got curious when you mentioned them.
Here is the article about them from wiki. The story of the guitar might be true. There are many stories like this one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Indios_Tabajaras

Two boys found a guitar. That is the part of the story I might believe. But of course two jungle boys did not figure out how to play the world's great popular classics from their huts. They moved to town. Yes, they found a guitar. Now, just what help did they receive in learning to play it and then master it. It is stated that they went back to study music in the 1950's, after already becoming something of recording stars.

Amazing talent does amazing things. It is impossible to know how far they got on their or own, unless witnesses or relatives have something to remember.

Danik 2016

08-13-2016, 09:48 PM

Up in the Nordeste where they come from, there must be still a lot of popular guitar player. They´ve little or no formal learning but they learn from each other. There are the "repentistas" who play on guitar contests, a kind of musical dialogue where the verses are improvised on the spot. The winner is the player who holds out the longest.

desiresjab

08-14-2016, 03:59 AM

Danik 2016

08-14-2016, 08:54 AM

Spanish??! Only after going to Spanish classes. :D
The language of the country is Portuguese.

desiresjab

08-14-2016, 07:24 PM

Spanish??! Only after going to Spanish classes. :D
The language of the country is Portuguese.

I know that. But it borders about ten countries whose main language is Spanish. In the U.S. a lot of Spanish is spoken in border states. Traditionally, the people of Texas speak better Spanish than the people of Maine. In Brazil it has to work the same way. I was merely wondering if their choice of an act name in Spanish had perhaps anything to do with coming from a border area in Brazil. I am just probing, my dear.

Danik 2016

08-14-2016, 09:33 PM

desiresjab

08-15-2016, 04:02 AM

You are right there.In Rio Grande do Sul, the state most in the south the gaúchos speak a
mixed lingo with a lot of Spanish expressions. Formerly there were a lot of border conflicts in the south between the Hispano American side and the Brazilian. Uruguai once was a part of Brazil. It bbecame separated after a war.
The Spanish speaking migrants that come to Brazil usually learn to speak Portuguese pretty soon, or at least "portunhol= Português + Espanhol". But in Ceará, the home state of the Tabajaras, they speak Portuguese.
I guess that what you have in Texas is a large hispanic colony.

Key statement in red.

Los Indios Tabajaras do not sound like anyone else. Other guitarists often try to sound like them. This happens with all great stylists I have known of on guitar--other players copy the signature sounds they grew up on. It is a natural process. I grew up copying the Tabajaras version of Maria Elena.

Danik 2016

08-15-2016, 09:45 AM

They must indeed have been very famous (and like it often happens to talented people, the one that died, died poor.)
This discussion brought brought an old musical memory back to me. I remember neither the Tabajaras, not that the music was called "Maria Helena", nor when and where I heard it, but the sound is very familiar. Thank you for reviving it. It seems the world was already a global village in the old radio days.

Danik 2016

08-15-2016, 09:47 AM

......

desiresjab

08-15-2016, 09:58 PM

Famous? Yes, in their way. They were guitar heros before the term existed. Guitar has always had heros. I do not know why. Maybe because it is so personal and is something that can be carried. Yet I do not know of any flute heros in that tradition.

Segovia was a guitar hero, as were Tarrega, Sor, Guliani and Aguado before him. They all predated the electric guitar. Segovia lived far into the electronic age when electric guitars took over the popular imagination, yet he remained a guitar god up to and beyond his death near the advent of the home computer/internet age. Other guitar gods live on, as well. Les Paul and Jimi Hendrix are not going anywhere soon.

There is no doubt Segovia was the first international guitar hero. His stage was the entire world purposely. He had to bring the guitar to glory. He had to divorce it from a past he saw as ugly and demeaning to the instrument. Unfortunately, really, a single word symbolized this ugly past in Segovia's vocabulary--flamenco. Drunks who played and danced in the streets went by that name too. Because of what he had seen and heard while growing up and because that word had been used around him repeatedly as an instance of low culture, Segovia adopted this usage. As in his childhood, that word remained code for low culture.

A century removed from Segovia's original battleground, it is diffucult for us now to appreciate his need for such separation of cultures. Who was this stuffy crank, we are apt to ask? But we are used to the guitar and have fully accepted it as a concert instrument and more, we are used to world music and every kind of fusion of cultures expressed musically. Segovia was before all that. By the time radio was half out of the womb he was a full master embarked on his destiny already the old fashioned way of touring. His aunt and uncle (he had been abandoned by his mother at four years of age) had gone so far as to state that guitar was not a suitable instrument for him to learn because it was the instrument of ragged street gypsies and drunken flamenco artists. Much of his bias symbolized by the word had been instilled early.

In an interview I watched, Segovia later praised the beauty of the best flamenco traditions. By that time his mission was an unqualified success on all fronts. The war was not nearing its end, the war had been won. Segovia recognized all things of beauty. From listening to him play, from reading about him, from watching numerous documetaries and interviews, one gains the sense of how very intelligent Segovia was. I read on one of his album jackets as a kid that his intelligence and cultivation made it easy to envision his success in other fields such as diplomacy or education, had he not chosen the elevation of the guitar as his mission. I think this appears true.

Make no mistake, the guitar heros were coming in a big way, whether Segovia was ever born or not. The world is fortunate and Segovia is fortunate that he came just prior to the electronic age, but by virtue of a long life and career his reputation remained parallel to it and was enhanced by it. He spread his word like no other had been able to before him. Like I said, I think the world is lucky that Segovia got in these licks for guitar as a concert instrument just prior to the guitar's second revolution. A guitar revolution was coming anyway, but without Segovia to lift the guitar to the highest levels of traditional concert and classical music, the world would have a different outlook on guitar. It would still be a positve outlook, I believe, but it would certainly be a different one than we have because of Segovia.

* * * * *

You mean that was just a little preface to guitar heros? I started out talking about Los Indios Tabajaras, and how they were guitar heros stemming from a different tradition.

* * * * *

A guitar hero has to have his signature sound that is instantly recognizable, something that seems to make him imitable, a handle, something unique about his sound.

Picture late 1970's Summit county Colorado, and me having to literally pull the car over to the side of the road because on the radio was a new sound of guitar. It was Dire Straits on Sultans of Swing. That was a new and beautiful sound for rock guitar. Mark Knopfler became a guitar god. He did not sound like anyone else. One reason was that he was using a largely untried technique on electric guitar. This was long before such rock guitar gods as Jeff Beck converted so thoroughly to fingerstyle that they practically forgot they ever played with a pick.

desiresjab

08-16-2016, 07:09 AM

For guitarists coming of age in the 1960's many different influences were available. Chet Atkins was technically advanced and covered the deep end of the popular pool, playing everything from stylized versions of vocal and instrumental hits past and present to popularized renditions of famous classical pieces, such as Malaguena and Chopin waltzes.

Then came the surf music craze, which in its early stages was mainly an instrumental phenomenon at the highscool level where teenagers were forming bands. The Chantays of Pipeline fame and the Pyramids of Penetration fame, were two groups of teenagers heading the craze. The Ventures, of course, were the dominant guitar instrumental group of the time, guitar heros, and produced many hits and were in on any craze or hit almost as soon as it happened with another new Ventures album. All the garage groups tried to sound like the Ventures.

Across the pond some of that same guitar instrumental world was available from the Shadows, who were less heavy on the drums and a bit smoother.

Popularity notwithstanding, the greatest original popular guitar instrumental to come out of the period (or maybe slightly before it) was Apache by Jorgen Ingmann, a Swedish guitarist. This was a true piece of style, an absolutely new sound on guitar with a beautiful thematic concept which was expressed and mimicked perfectly. Of all the famous renditions since, none has exceeded or equaled the original for interest and musicality. His production is awfully hard to improve upon. Not quite a surf rock song, but I assure you it was played at many a teenage dance in those days. There was an instrumental side to popular music in those bygone decades that does not exist today.

You never heard much of Jorgen Ingmann after that one big hit. Los Indios Tabajaras had only one great hit in North America, as well, around that same time within a few years. Maria Elena did not get played much at many teenage dances, for its complexity put it out of reach of most teenage musicians learning guitar by playing Wipeout and Tequilla with their friends.

desiresjab

08-16-2016, 08:07 AM

I had to come back to correct my own errors on the last post. Jorgen Ingmann did not write Apache. It was written by an English Songwriter who may not have had a version. Someone recorded it and then the Shadows recorded it, making a few ripples only. Shortly afterwards came Ingmann's masterful version. How many touches of his own he added and how many from the original the Shadows left out, would be an interesting thing to know. All great versions since Ingmann have included the touches he added, such as the soprano echo after each line of main melody and his runs in artificial harmonics between melody phrases in the bridge.

Two versions that really stand out for musicianship and effort at originality are the versions of Danny Gatton and Junior Brown. I heard a Mexican group with a nice version once, but I have forgotten their name. I have heard a few flamenco solo arrangements that were impressive and even stellar for performance but not quite up to the listening value one desires.

There is great stuff in every genre, not just classical. That is something I knew and appreciated early.

desiresjab

08-17-2016, 04:19 AM

What does it take to be one of the world's top classical guitarists? Not what do you have to go through, but what do you have to be able to do?

To make the starting line, you have to be able to get through the most difficult pieces flawlessly, in terms of sounding every note in the right place, every note being clear.

That alone will eliminate many fine classical guitarists from consideration from such an elite list. Tiny errors in monsterously difficult pieces are not noticeable by "civilians," but are easily heard by those in the know. I can make detailed observations about guitar performances in which my most subtle points would be lost on civilians. In this case civilian probably means anyone who has not studied classical guitar seriously, and for at least a few years, for I guarantee you my same observations on the differences between high level piano performances would be totally useless. I would not be capable of the most subtle observations. Concerning myself, only on guitar could my observations be of much use. I do not understand any other instrument well enough, though I play a couple of other stringed instruments well enough to have been paid for playing them on a few occasions.

I know quite a bit about guitar, but there are people half my age who know a lot more. I play rather decently, but there are people half my age who play rather greatly.

You have what you have, you did with it what you did with it. Certain discilplines require everything to go right from an early age, at least they do by reputation. By comment consent (old school) no person can ever become a first rate concert pianist who has not begun the serious study of piano by the late age of nine, even if they have been a whiz on something as close as accordian since they were five or six and were so small they had to use a stand for it.

Barriers are made to be broken, right? I am sure the one above is generally true for the young accordian player with less than Mozartian talent. What about the other kind of talent, though? Two historical rumors of duplicate nature which always fascinated me were that both Bach and Mozart were considered among the finest violinists in Europe during their respective lifetimes, though neither one played the violin. Stop! What?

Well, (I pulled out of Pittsburg headin' down that eastern seaboard) it is not precisely true they did not play violin, or they would never have been rumored to be the best. Neither devoted himself to the playing of violin. Mozart, of course, could play anything on sight, and both men understood all instruments perfectly from a compositional perspective, such as range and technical limitations. Mozart's father had also been a top violinist, so of course he had the instrument in his hands many times. Both men stretched the limits of the orchestral instruments in their compositions. When violinists complained that their parts were impossible, both Bach and Mozart are recorded to have demonstrated with perfect extemporaneous fluidity on the violin that the part was indeed not impossible but playable with the utmost feeling and exactitude.

So, how old might a great concert pianist start? Who knows, is probably the correct answer. Too many variables. Same for guitar, I assume. A teacher cannot play God.

* * * * *

Those that made the cut are at the starting line. The race consists in the individual perfomances of what all can play without mistakes. Each guitarist at the line has near perfect mechanics. Yet even the untrained listener is able to form an opinion on who got the most out of the same piece. The contest goes on over many pieces that they all play in common. Soon you may be able to choose an overall favorite, though you might prefer someone else's version of a particular piece.

Other values can easily get in the way of a pure decision on your part. For instance, you would not make your mind up based on the music a guitarist chose to record in deciding if you thought he was a "better" guitarist than guitarist B, but such a value could easily influence an unwary decision. Final judgement is best made on the individual interpretations over a wide body of identical work.

In the end it is about who sounds best. Perhaps expression and color are just fancier words for soul, details of soul. But the art of performance is something some great artists study under maestros for years. Sharon Isbin spent a decade learning Baroque performance and interpretation. You cannot listen to her perform Vivaldi's lute concerto without realizing how profoundly she benefitted from scholarly drive. She livens that piece up magically even for those familiar with its traditional performance (I was scheduled to perform this concerto with an orchestra in high school until the event got cancelled) because one can place full trust in her extra embellishment. She explains that she feels baroque performers would have played their pieces more loosely than the frozen interpretations we grew up on. I find her ideas acceptable and her interpretation of baroque music magical to my ears. She makes my list. She finished the race and wins a medal.

Another classical guitar heroine who makes my list is Liona Boyd of Canada. I prefer her version of Cancion de la Hilandera to anyone's I have heard. It means much when a performing artist can put their stamp on even one classic piece of music. Her interptretation has more sensitivity to it.

There are more than a few guitar heroines worthy of consideration. I do not even know all of them in detail. Many, these days, seem to be from eastern Europe. The mechanical mastery I see is pretty impressive. There was a time not many decades ago when a favorite "truism" of those who rely on tradition was that women would never play classical guitar at the highest levels because, for one reason, they lacked the wrist strength. Kiss that truism goodbye. Barriers are made to be smashed.

desiresjab

08-18-2016, 01:51 AM

Our mythical list of "greatest" classical guitar players may as well include the dead players we have enough quality recordings of to make our judgements reasonable. Segovia, Bream, Williams and Parkening are still the high acheivers, the four horsemen of classical guitar.

In a world overly focused on mechanical technique, no one is likely to exceed the perfection of John Williams anyway, when it comes to performing the classics of our sample set.

When it comes to constant variety of color, the Gauguinesque palette of Segovia still has no rival. The sharp tonal contrasts of Bream would seem easier to produce, but he remains the master of employing them in a way that sounds organic rather than affected. Parkening scores high in all categories.

* * * * *

Perfect mechanical execution requires what I call musical athleticism. You have to be athletic enough on the instrument to perform the most difficult passages flawlessly, we already know that. If it is super fast, you have to be able to play that fast, and flawlessly. There are even different levels of flawlessness, however. How easily a performer plays the bare execution that it takes to qualify, is a strong indication whether they can do more. The best musical athletes have a crisper delivery, their notes sparkle more. They are able to do more beyond the minumum qualifying appearance because the minumum to be great is so easy for them now. They are complete masters, and also the greatest musical athletes in the classical guitar game, not coincidentally.

Names of great players always get left out, but none were the musical athletes of the four above, I feel pretty confident. They were considered the very best because they actually were the best. The ease with which they play allows them more flexibility to experiment with tone and expression.

* * * * *

I believe Segovia's huge sound may have come from another factor--his huge fingers. The fingers were long but this was partially disguised by their fatness. The fingers were so fat they appeared badly swollen. They did taper as they approached the tips, but nothing like to the size of a normal finger. They were huge. I think this means Segovia could vary more the amount of surface he used in striking the string with his right hand fingers. Tiny fingers may be doomed to sound tiny with regard to the variety of tone they can produce, if not for dynamical limitation as well.

One very steep mountain players of the 21st century face is that players of the 20th century left so little undone. They developed classical guitar perhaps to its maximum potential.

desiresjab

08-18-2016, 10:56 PM

Last night I listened to about an hour of Enno Voorhorst playing selections from Barrios. The interpretations were celan and enjoyable. Tremolo is a technique where one can hear the differences between levels of expertise, and Barrios seems to have written for the tremolo frequently. In all players but a few, the tremolo will become uneven in places here and there or a note will drop out. At the super high level of player, John Williams still distinguishes himself for his tremolo technique. At times listening to his Recuerdos de la Alhambra I am reminded of the mechanical knocking of a woodpecker by Williams' tremolo. He has the most even tremolo in the business. This medal does not really belong to flamenco players, as one might think, but classical players, and Williams is the best of them at tremolo. His version of Recuerdos is not even my favorite version, but his tremolo is still the best in the business.

It is too bad the recordings of Barrios playing his own works and the works of others are so terrible in quality. He must have been a brilliant player.

desiresjab

08-19-2016, 04:55 PM

To encourage more participation I will post one piece of music played by all the major Players. Recuerdos is a great work that everyone plays but is wrong for this task, since it displays mainly one technique--the tremolo--and we need a piece with diverse techniques on display. La Maja de Goya seems to be a well rounded piece that most of them play. I will be back later with the links.

desiresjab

08-19-2016, 06:53 PM

Here is La Maja de Goya, performed by six different artists. The recording quality and volume vary wildly from piece to piece, so you will have to keep adjusting for comfort. John Williams' version is faint. Both recordings by Segovia are mediocre quality, and both versions very different from one another. One is completely dry without any reverb. The other has reverb but is interrupted several times by a narrator. The Parkening version has vocals which come in at about 1:40. We never get to hear him play the wonderful chorus (?) section, but we can hear him play all the rest of it by himself.

Perhaps people have a preferred verion out of these. Please let me know.

Oscar Ghiglia--skip to 34:26

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU3vif14A3g

Angel Romero

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjTM0ciuuNU

Christopher Parkening

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_6ndPXG1Ho

John Williams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd0z4uIc9o4

Julian Bream

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5K5AscU1oc

Segovia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzWZElue7W8

Segovia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSlnhvYTB14

desiresjab

08-19-2016, 07:27 PM

Since John Williams is the faintest recording, I really think it is a good idea to listen to all of the pieces at the volume at which you are forced to listen to Williams. This works much better for me when comparing the versions.

Danik 2016

08-20-2016, 09:30 AM

desiresjab

08-20-2016, 05:47 PM

I don´t know everything about classical guitar but I enjoyed the Segovia version and specially the "gipsy" Julian Bream.
Here is a Brazilian version by Sergio Barbosa in an old gold mine from Mariana:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8KWPHcnAnA

Everyone puts their own mark on the piece in some way, don't they? Barbosa may have added some harmomnics to a section. I prefer it slightly faster than some of the versions including this one. I thought the faster Segovia version was too fast.

The opening of the piece with its muted thumps by the thumb comes off best from Segovia and Bream to my ears. In the video one can see that Bream is really slamming that bass string. I want those notes semi-stacatto, as most of the players perform that section and its repeat. Surprisingly, John Williams takes it easy on those notes. He does not slam them at all, and they are less stacatto. The cleanliness overall of his version brings out some gentleness residing in the music and missed by the others, but leaves one wondering, as usual, why he didn't do a little more to color the piece tonally.

Everyone has quite a different take on the fast arpeggios of the coda. For cleanliness and precision, Williams stands out on those final arpeggios. No one comes close to him there, and he will allow no faking or blurring of that rapid sequence of arpeggiated notes, which is played twice. If only Williams had some of the palette of Bream or Segovia in him, he would be the greatest guitarist possible. As it stands, I guess that guitarist has not been born yet.

desiresjab

08-20-2016, 08:48 PM

My mistake. The coda section with the fast upward arpeggio is played only once.

Actually, Angel Romero plays that part twice. Personal stamps all over the place.

desiresjab

08-23-2016, 01:06 AM

Here is a delightful little classic--Canarios--written by Gaspar Sanz around 1674, according to Williams. Do any two of them play it remotely the same?

As usual, the recordings are not always perfect, and you will have to adjust your volume for each presentation. I like to show the artist playing it, but that is not always possible. What I prefer are the best audio versions I can link to. I do not believe Segovia ever recorded this one. I wish he had. One of the performers may make a rare mistake.

Julian Bream

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AICNKYFIgxY

John Williams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyhF9KEiDsc

Christopher Parkening

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdI2ldxXh68

Angel Romero

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prCfgZRzHz4

S. Gregoriadou

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prCfgZRzHz4

Narcisco Yepes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKKXlNV_350

Danik 2016

08-23-2016, 09:58 PM

I liked the piece in the different versions I heard:Yepes, Bream, Romero and Gregoriadou.
I`m posting the Gregoriadou thread again as the other is a repetition of the thread above it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G_ES9T04W8

Magnocrat

02-18-2017, 03:34 PM

I attended the classical guitar school run by Len Williams ( Johns father ). It was over the Chinese restaurant near Leicester Square tube station. The group lessons were ten Bob in old money and we had ten Bob notes in those days. Each week we were given a short piece to practice and play for the group next week.

desiresjab

04-12-2017, 01:44 AM