RIP The Most Famous Man in The World

[prendrelemick]

I know this is a literature forum, but I bet there isn't a member who hasn't heard of Muhammad Ali. Perhaps he was a controversial figure in America - that's politics - but in Britain he was loved. A gobby black man, an intelligent boxer who's humour was imbued with wisdom, a man who took on fame and lived up to the expectations it brought - in and out of the ring. RIP.

How do you choose a quote from the thousands from the most famous man in the world? Perhaps this:-

"I wish people would love everybody else the way they love me. It would be a better world. - Muhammad Ali.

What would you choose?

[Iain Sparrow]

"Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee."

Besides being a clever boast, the words roll off the tongue nicely.

[Dreamwoven]

At his best his footwork was so fine he could lower his guard and dance away from the punches. Never seen anything like it, before or since.

[Mohammad Ahmad]

I recently have read something he wrote, I didn't believe that he had a literary background considering people who have certain careers like sports for example do not care for literature or other issues of life...These are quoted of sayings likely maxims:
When Ali prepared to meet Frazier for a third time in Manila, Philippines, on Oct. 1, 1975, he frequently carried a toy rubber gorilla with him. At one news conference, he pulled the gorilla out of his pocket and began punching it as he said, "It's going to be a (killa) and a (thrilla) and a (chilla) when I get the gorilla in Manila."
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A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life. Muhammad Ali
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I'm so fast that last night I turned off the light switch in my hotel room and was in bed before the room was dark. Muhammad Ali
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Rivers, ponds, lakes and streams - they all have different names, but they all contain water. Just as religions do - they all contain truths. Muhammad Ali
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It's lack of faith that makes people afraid of meeting challenges, and I believed in myself. Muhammad Ali
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It's not bragging if you can back it up. Muhammad Ali
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Yet there are many sayings he left behind

[Gilliatt Gurgle]

"Whatever truculent means, if it's good, I'm that"

When I first heard of Ali's passing the first thing that came to mind was Howard Cosell and the many years they bantered with each other in a symbiotic relationship.

Here's an example, jump to 2:00... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR2mL8oxyRo

[desiresjab]

I thought he actually was the most fanous man in the world about the time he beat Foreman.

As for fighting ability, none of today's behemoths would beat him. Tony Joshua with upper legs like mini cement mixers can barely carry his own weight around. If he fights hard for half a round you would think he just ran a record marathon.

I don't know if behemoths are here to stay at the top of the heavyweight division, but I do not believe any of them so far would have beaten Caly/Ali, including Lennox Lewis who may have been the best of modern behemoths.

[Dreamwoven]

Good to see you back, desiresjab!

[YesNo]

I agree with Dreamwoven. Good to see you back, desiresjab!

[desiresjab]

He had many technical shortcomings as a boxer, but they were more than compensated for by his immense natural talent and will. Truly gifted boxers sometimes do not learn deeply beyond the basics, their program to the top is so accelerated using their talent and showmanship almost exclusively. Not to say they have not worked and trained like demons.

Unfortunately, boxers in this category tend to take bad beatings once age has neutralized their superhuman reflexes and speed. Especially if they have great whiskers, as Ali did. There was no deep medicine bag full of traditional defensive techniques practiced until they were instinctive, to fall back on.

One of the few boxing super talents that developed a deep medicine bag is Mayweather. He is not one tenth the fighter or champion that Ali was, but he does know boxing's traditional library, he does not rely merely on superhuman talent and reflexes (which he does have), which has enabled him to last longer at the top of his game than most. Cherrypicking your opponents does not hurt, either, if you want to stay undefeated, something Ali simply did not do. That is why his resume is the toughest in the history of the sport and conversely why Mayweather cannot seem to get the credit he thinks he deserves. All those millions can't buy it. It is history. It will unravel all your moves to avoid dangerous competition, and expose them.

Clay/Ali's fame will be in boxing, and the fact of his martyrdom. It was a breakout time for blacks, which had been going on since Joe Louis and Jackie Robinson broke through to the human heart and the pocketbook. It was time for the next stage of the breakout, and Ali was there, headlining.

Because he lacked one punch KO power, most of his opponents had to endure prolonged beatings, receiving multiple volleys. and possible second concussions. Because he eschewed body punching, opponents did not tire as quickly, adding to their facial butchery.

He did it with a so-so lefhook and no body punching. The jab and the right cross were his principal weapons, and those amazing feet that could put him any position to punch almost instantly when he was in his prime.

For a man of 6'3" to knock off the modern behemoths, he would need some of Ali's talent and will. He might need all of it. It might take Ali himself. But eventually, I forecast that a "normal-sized," man will come along who can knock them off the perch for a while. I doubt, however, that the heavyweight division is still the rightful kingdom of 215 pounders. As a rule they should lose to well trained and well schooled men of 250 lbs. Speed is a critical factor that can compensate here.

Ali had the second fastest hands of any heavyweight champion and possibly the fastest feet. His feet may be faster than even Gene Tunney's. The point to consider is that guys like Patterson and Tunney were not real heavyweights and never broke 200lbs, and were lucky to break 190. Ali was a real heavyweight, yet he had their speed. The likes of him has never been seen again in the heavyweight division, even for pure speed alone, forget about his other qualities. Without boxing and the boxing fan, he would be an mere historical footnote, had he still done everything else. As it is, he is as immortal as Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano or Sugar Ray Robinson.

[Dreamwoven]

Yes, I remember how Ali used his feet to dance out of trouble, even keeping his hands so low that they didn't protect his face. Phenomenal.

[Dreamwoven]

My favourite Ali quote was "float like a butterfly, sting like a bee."

[desiresjab]

My favourite Ali quote was "float like a butterfly, sting like a bee."

I don't think that quote is his. It came from Bundini Brown, who was a trainer and cornerman for Ali, as well as personal cheerleader. Ali used to beat on his head like a bongo drum, and vice versa.

The mightiest feat a heavyweight ever pulled off was beating Foreman in Zaire. Foreman had knocked everyone else out. He was Ali's height, so Ali's normal reach advantage was not there. He had enough anyway. He felled the dragon all others feared. Some of the body shots Foreman unloaded against the motionless roper-doper had to be among the hardest ever thrown, since George flung caution to the wind and simply unloaded with all his power, like a man swinging a sledge hammer at a carnival.

[Dreamwoven]

I bow to your superior knowledge of this ;)

[desiresjab]

Over and out. You are not a boxing fan?

[Dreamwoven]

UM, no I can't say I am. But in his´s prime Ali was the greatest.

[desiresjab]

UM, no I can't say I am. But in his´s prime Ali was the greatest.

In his prime Thaogenes was pretty good, too. It is said he was undefeated and the victor in about 1500 fights. I do not remember the correct spelling of his name or his dates of existence in the ancient world, and I am very lazy. However...

The "boxers," were seated on granite blocks and strapped down, their knees touching, where they proceeded to punch it out wearing brass or wooden knuckles of a deadly nature. Appropriate, since these fights were to the death. One can see right off they were to the death or to the maim, though, just from the fighting conditions.

I bet they used to say Thaogenes was the greatest, before Ali, who they might have laughed at. Perhaps not. For there was an ancient boxer who was apparently the ultimate defensive wizard. I could look up his name. He absolutely refused to ever hit an opponent, yet was highly heralded and popular, and was a great champion. The opponents wore themselves out on him. A parried punch can hurt the assaultant, and he can break his bare knuckles on an artfully lowered skull. His matches must have lasted a long time.

Now those matches would have been more like regular boxing than men strapped on granite blocks with pointed brass knuckles. It all depends on the ancient era. Are we talking about 2700 years ago or 700 years ago, and furthermore, where?

I was trying to fictionally build the fighter that would have been needed to perform the career feat of Thaogenes. But until I know the precise fighting conditions, I cannot build him. I know only that he is very fast and can take pain. I recently ran into a boxing historian who is really into the ancient boxing. I am going to pump him like a machine.

[Dreamwoven]

I had to look this up in Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theagenes_of_Thasos - must be who you are referring to. I was never any good at Ancient History...

[desiresjab]

The boxing historian has never heard of seated boxing. He says that does not mean it did not exist. I know I saw a picture and an article about it once. That will impossible to find now.