a fresh insight to an archaic discussion .

[barbarasimmings]

hello my friends, what else could that be . intrinsic thought about suffering induced by birth defects , or accident or the like . is suffering essential for us , where its warrants its alleviation through godly faith , or does it occur arbitrary , where its alleviation by faith is not contemplated ? . :devil:

[YesNo]

I suppose you could say we all have birth defects since we are all limited in various ways as human beings and since we all die to what extent do these limitations ultimately matter?

[Pompey Bum]

Ah, but a limitation is not the same thing as suffering. In my opinion, Barbara, suffering exacerbates and makes more difficult a critical moral choice: do we turn ourselves to God (or, for the secular, the Good) despite our suffering, or do we turn ourselves away and allow suffering to degrade us into nihilism and cruelty. Faith doesn't actually alleviate physical suffering (at least not in my experience), but turning oneself to the Good is (for me in any case) a faithful action in itself. I hope that helped.

[barbarasimmings]

But how good will alleviate suffering ?

And what exactly do you mean by good ?

For yesno,
How could death be the substitute for earthly suffering, in the absence of a death time indicator ?

[Pompey Bum]

But how good will alleviate suffering ?

Turning to the Good will not alleviate physical suffering. Suffering rather will make the choice more difficult. And by good, I personally mean God, though it still works as a secular conception of the Good. You'll have to work out what that means for yourself, though, since philosophers have been disagreeing about it for a long time.

[barbarasimmings]

How good can work the same as god?

I think one can do good efforts in anticipation of god alleviating at least some of the suffering,but I can't see how good will do the job by itself .if the latter cold have, then we are talking now about problem solved ,which isn't ?

[Pompey Bum]

How good can work the same as god?

A secular way of approaching God might be as "the Good," "the Just," etc. But I think you and I already know what we mean by God, so I wouldn't worry about it.



I can't see how good will do the job by itself

Right, it doesn't. Faith is choosing God (and virtue is choosing the Good) even though it still hurts.

[YesNo]

For yesno,
How could death be the substitute for earthly suffering, in the absence of a death time indicator ?

I don't understand the question. I was referring to death in terms of disabilities trying to emphasize that we all have them because we are all limited, being a specific species, and then we ultimately die. Death doesn't "substitute" for earthly suffering.

I was in Colorado Springs recently. South of the Garden of the Gods park is a road leading to Manitou Springs to the west and downtown Colorado Springs to the east. This is where the art shops are located and they are quite elaborate. This is the best tourist trap district I have ever seen.

In one of the the shops selling eastern religious items such as singing bowls and incense there was a T-shirt with this written on it:


There is no way to happiness. Happiness is the way. Buddha
I almost bought it.

[Danik 2016]

I think having faith won´t readily cure phisical suffering. Usually only medical aid and the right forms of therapy/treatment can do that.

But it may help to make life more meaningful and the phisical suffering more bearable, give strenght and open up perspectives of dealing in a positive manner with it.
Sometimes psychological terapy can be of great help too.

[Ecurb]

I read some theological treatise recently (I forget which one) that claimed that God became man (Jesus) in part because He was jealous of human virtue. As perfect as He is, he could not attain (or even aspire to) the virtues of courage or fortitude until He could suffer (which, of course, he did as the Son). The Greeks agreed; they thought heroism was impossible for the immortal Gods.

So as much as we dislike suffering, it is both a terrible thing, and a wonderful opportunity. Adventures can occur only given the possibility of suffering. Some of my fondest memories of mountaineering involve suffering. I've had a couple of accidents where I was badly injured; they weren't fun at the time, but I was able to test my coolness of thought under pressure, my fortitude, and my physical strength. I look back fondly on them.

("Became" may be the wrong word. Didn't Jesus say, "Before Abraham was, I am.")

[Pompey Bum]

Didn't Jesus say, "Before Abraham was, I am.")

Well, the Gospel of John said it in any case. But theologically it wouldn't prohibit the scenario you describe, since John also says that the Word was with God from the beginning and was only later made flesh.

[barbarasimmings]

i am afraid we have turned to interpretations of religions . regards YesNo ; ("I don't understand the question. I was referring to death in terms of disabilities trying to emphasize that we all have them because we are all limited ") , obviously , my basic question is this : do you believe in the power of god to transform someone with serious disabilities, into being a healthier person to satisfy his " less painful" existence, both physically and psychologically , or not ? .

come on guys, give it a thought ;

[YesNo]

i am afraid we have turned to interpretations of religions . regards YesNo ; ("I don't understand the question. I was referring to death in terms of disabilities trying to emphasize that we all have them because we are all limited ") , obviously , my basic question is this : do you believe in the power of god to transform someone with serious disabilities, into being a healthier person to satisfy his " less painful" existence, both physically and psychologically , or not ? .

Yes, I do believe that is possible. You can also help the process by seeing that person as healthier.

[barbarasimmings]

i personally believe that misfortunes are a priori ,but not a conclusive effect. sufficient belief in the omnipotent,is the determinant of a sort of recovery . belief without core implementation of it,is rendered insufficient . amazingly enough,disbelief could also render the same outcome , as recovery is not conditional upon belief alone. my personal conviction is that the scope and immediateness of recovery,would rather favor belief , owing to my experienced occurrences .

i agree with you. but how can one help the process by seeing that person as healthier.

[YesNo]

i agree with you. but how can one help the process by seeing that person as healthier.

One way is to use positive words and thoughts when talking or thinking about that person and encourage them to do the same. Some traditions call that praying or reciting mantras and affirmations. The person who has influenced me most recently on this is Florence Scovel Shinn. Her works are available online.

It doesn't always work, that is, what we expect to see happen doesn't always appear the way we think it should. Perhaps we are not using affirmations. Perhaps we want something to happen that shouldn't happen. Whatever the explanation, that's not the same as saying it doesn't work at all. If it didn't work at all the placebo effect should not exist either, but it does.

[barbarasimmings]

Come on friends. Yu must have heard that question before, dare,dare and dare now .

Yesno , very well described .