Preaching about poverty

[Kris Brass]

There is a common misconception regarding aboriginal people. There are many that are homeless within my city, Winnipeg Manitoba. From my own experience as an aboriginal person trying to understand and comply with the expectations of modern society -such as working a 9 to 5 job, and paying rent on time, I realized that the issues stemming from being a product of CFS helped to further my inability towards being recognized as a productive member of society, until it was too late. Homelessness was definitely an aspect of my life that plagued me for many years thence. However, there were factors that have to be considered to fully comprehend how and why I ended up in those bitter circumstances. People tend to over-look the underlying factors that led to such a conclusion. The biggest factor was being apart of Child & Family services; consequentially, I was not being adequately prepared to tackle a larger world, I was not taught how to construct a resume or given the experience to learn the key aspects of independence and responsibility. Additionally, addiction played a major factor towards these consequential predetermined expectations. It's a foregone conclusion that someone who isn't provided with the basic life skills, will ultimately fall victim underneath the weight of the established norm. There is ultimately much more to be considered when looking at homeless as a whole as opposed to the victims individually. Sure, there are some that choose that life-style but there are others who did not have any other choice.

A few short years ago, my social worker and I were going for a drive through the bitter parts of Winnipeg. She was completely unaware of the the things around her and how they came to be. She failed to acknowledge whom was even homeless or any factors that should have come into consideration. If she did not understand so little, how can we expect people to understand so much? There needs to be a voice for the undeveloped and there needs to be some change. Not just with them, but with the entire Child and Family services system in general. If you aren't willing to help the individuals you take into care than you are only furthering the issue and complicating the image bestowed upon us as a people.

[Danik 2016]

By the texts you post on this forum I have got the feeling that you are still looking for yourself not only as a writer but in a wider sense as a human being who is trying to find his role in life. You must still be young. If you have grown out of this system and have managed to educate yourself in spite of all the drabacks, maybe you can become a voice for the homeless of your country as a writer/and or in other ways.

[Iain Sparrow]

Canada, like America, was being colonized in force from 1600 onwards.
That is time enough for "aboriginal" populations to adapt to the changing landscape. It's pretty sad that these once proud indigenous people need a social worker to get by in the world. At some point, one must consider the possibility that these aboriginal peoples around the world are simply inferior and unable to adapt?
And btw, every study I know of, shows that mental illness and/or drug & alcohol addiction are the primary reasons for homelessness.

[Danik 2016]

.....

[Danik 2016]

Bad governamental politics are a big cause of homelessness too. People lose their jobs and then they don´t have the money any more to pay their rents. They have to live on the streets, if they are lucky they have got tents. In the city where I live the movement of the homeless has become a big social movement.

[Kris Brass]

Canada, like America, was being colonized in force from 1600 onwards.
That is time enough for "aboriginal" populations to adapt to the changing landscape. It's pretty sad that these once proud indigenous people need a social worker to get by in the world. At some point, one must consider the possibility that these aboriginal peoples around the world are simply inferior and unable to adapt?
And btw, every study I know of, shows that mental illness and/or drug & alcohol addiction are the primary reasons for homelessness.
You sure are racist.

There are many aboriginal people who are more successful than you will ever be in your lifetime.

[Iain Sparrow]

You sure are racist.

There are many aboriginal people who are more successful than you will ever be in your lifetime.

I'm first generation American, both my parents are immigrants, and we've all done fine. Instead of hanging on to our cultural heritage my parents acclimated to their new country and raised four children to be American, and for each of us to stand on our own two feet. So it's fine if you want to call me racist, and blame the government, or blame an uncaring preoccupied society for homelessness, but in the end, you still have the same problem to solve. Throwing money at it hasn't worked, increasing public awareness hasn't worked, government programs are only ever partially successful... at some point, you accept that some people are genetically inferior. Not by race, but that certain individuals of every race are inferior and should be allowed to exit the gene pool.

[Danik 2016]

Sorry, Ian, but that is utter nonsense. We are, and I´m trying to speak in universal not in American terms, a post post modern society. We are all having to adapt to new forms of survival, because the old dreams of economical success are definitively over.
Please don´t come with "inferior individual" and cleansening genetics. We all know where this discours comes from and what it leads to.

[Delta40]

First Australians dont even exist in our constitution. Oz was declared Terra Nullius when the first fleet landed so no treaties were signed. Until the sixties Indigenous were born as flora or fauna and couldn't vote and today have the highest prison rate, mortality rate and deaths in custody for which no officer has ever been convicted. Indigenous children can be adopted without the parents permission or knowledge. Their land is taken for huge mining corporations but the remote community they're in lack services for families which I and others would expect. Then the govt closes them down by cutting off the power and water. The unsolved rapes and murders of Indigenous women is extraordinarily higher. Lots of folk like Iain crying out 'get over it' to black fellas here saying they've had enough time to come to terms with the 'facts'. Meantime we celebrate Anzac Day and call out Lest We Forget to all and sundry. We just don't want to remember the numerous bloody massacres that First Australians suffered at the hands of our ancestors and we certainly don't want to commemorate them with a national public holiday. Iain your comments seem paltry when I consider these things.

[Iain Sparrow]

First Australians dont even exist in our constitution. Oz was declared Terra Nullius when the first fleet landed so no treaties were signed. Until the sixties Indigenous were born as flora or fauna and couldn't vote and today have the highest prison rate, mortality rate and deaths in custody for which no officer has ever been convicted. Indigenous children can be adopted without the parents permission or knowledge. Their land is taken for huge mining corporations but the remote community they're in lack services for families which I and others would expect. Then the govt closes them down by cutting off the power and water. The unsolved rapes and murders of Indigenous women is extraordinarily higher. Lots of folk like Iain crying out 'get over it' to black fellas here saying they've had enough time to come to terms with the 'facts'. Meantime we celebrate Anzac Day and call out Lest We Forget to all and sundry. We just don't want to remember the numerous bloody massacres that First Australians suffered at the hands of our ancestors and we certainly don't want to commemorate them with a national public holiday. Iain your comments seem paltry when I consider these things.


And in America it's "Native Americans", who have been treated horribly by the Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, English, Irish, Scottish, Mexicans, etc... let's not forget though, before the white man showed up most of these Native Americans were in a near continual state of conflict against each other. They tortured, they raped, they murdered each other long before colonists landed here. When we throw around words like 'aboriginal' and 'indigenous', why is the assumption that these people are somehow innocent?
The only real difference is in scale and degree.

[North Star]

The only real difference is in scale and degree.

You say that like those differences don't matter.

[Danik 2016]

I think discrimination starts exactly at the point when you think the group you belong to, no matter which group that is, is better than the other ones.

[Iain Sparrow]

I think discrimination starts exactly at the point when you think the group you belong to, no matter which group that is, is better than the other ones.

That's so politically correct it doesn't even make sense.
Take for instance another group of people; they have views and/or laws that are abusive, demeaning, and discriminatory to girls and women... do you not count yourself better than those people? If given the opportunity do you fight against those people to see that your own views and beliefs prevail? I sure do. Many aboriginal/indigenous peoples, and for that matter many modern governments have atrocious and completely outdated customs/laws concerning women. I do indeed count myself better than those people.

[Kris Brass]

That's all nonsense. The residential school system was one of the major reasons that Native Americans are still recovering to this date. It has only been one or two generations since those events have been dealt with, but the problems that derive from them will take much longer to solve. Additionally, believing that 'nothing' has worked is wholly incorrect. Winnipeg has definitely seen a major drop in crime, more kids are going to school and I myself, am an example of change. Giving up on something because problems still exist is completely ridiculous, and believing yourself to be superior is also ridiculous. Believing that you're 'genetically' better is a ridiculous statement because evolution itself isn't a fact.

Additionally, I was in the military, I've graduated and went to University, I work full time and pay my own rent. According to you, I shouldn't be capable of doing those things because I am 'genetically inferior' to you. Right?

Well... yes, you are a racist. You are likely one of the major reasons that Native Americans in Canada are still suffering in poverty while African Americans in America are in the same situations. Everything you state has some sort of flaw to it.

[Iain Sparrow]

That's all nonsense. The residential school system was one of the major reasons that Native Americans are still recovering to this date. It has only been one or two generations since those events have been dealt with, but the problems that derive from them will take much longer to solve. Additionally, believing that 'nothing' has worked is wholly incorrect. Winnipeg has definitely seen a major drop in crime, more kids are going to school and I myself, am an example of change. Giving up on something because problems still exist is completely ridiculous, and believing yourself to be superior is also ridiculous. Believing that you're 'genetically' better is a ridiculous statement because evolution itself isn't a fact.

Additionally, I was in the military, I've graduated and went to University, I work full time and pay my own rent. According to you, I shouldn't be capable of doing those things because I am 'genetically inferior' to you. Right?

Well... yes, you are a racist. You are likely one of the major reasons that Native Americans in Canada are still suffering in poverty while African Americans in America are in the same situations. Everything you state has some sort of flaw to it.

Did I get that correctly... you actually wrote "because evolution itself isn't a fact"?!

Am I to understand that you don't believe Homo sapiens to be a product of evolution?
OMG, I'm talking to a university grad, and military reject who doesn't believe in Evolution. You are inferior.

[bounty]

evolution is a theory. its a belief system as to the origins of life and the diversity of species.

you cannot observe it or replicate it, and therefore cannot prove it. there is nothing factual about it.

I wont be back for more discussion on it, but in the meantime, i'll keep my eyes peeled for all the transitional species out there, especially the ones who are part ape and who are evolving into humans.

you owe the fellow you implied was "inferior" an apology.

[Kris Brass]

Evolution is definitely not a fact, nor is the General THEORY of Relativity. Therefore, your argument about being genetically better has faults and is a fallacy, sheer conjecture. So yes, that makes you wrong and yes, that makes you a racist. Even the best scientists in the world acknowledge that there is something more going on in the universe than sheer chance; or in other-words, logic.

[Iain Sparrow]

evolution is a theory. its a belief system as to the origins of life and the diversity of species.

you cannot observe it or replicate it, and therefore cannot prove it. there is nothing factual about it.

I wont be back for more discussion on it, but in the meantime, i'll keep my eyes peeled for all the transitional species out there, especially the ones who are part ape and who are evolving into humans.

you owe the fellow you implied was "inferior" an apology.


You do not know what you're talking about, you really don't.
Certain theories eventually receive enough supportive data and scientific findings to become established, verified explanations. Although they retain the term "theory" in their names, they have evolved from mere conjecture to scientifically accepted fact. Evolution is one such theory.

Also, you wrote that we cannot observe or replicate evolution, again, you are wrong and have no idea what you're talking about.

This is one of many examples I can give you... http://phys.org/news/2012-01-scientists-replicate-key-evolutionary-life.html

Bounty, you are inferior.

[Iain Sparrow]

Evolution is definitely not a fact, nor is the General THEORY of Relativity. Therefore, your argument about being genetically better has faults and is a fallacy, sheer conjecture. So yes, that makes you wrong and yes, that makes you a racist. Even the best scientists in the world acknowledge that there is something more going on in the universe than sheer chance; or in other-words, logic.


The best scientists in the world acknowledge no such thing, that the universe has "more going on" is just something you made up. The universe does not operate on logic or any human rationale.
And another thing, I think you're lying about being a university grad, and I don't think you were in the military either. What you're doing is posturing, sort of being someone you're not.

[Delta40]

And in America it's "Native Americans", who have been treated horribly by the Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, English, Irish, Scottish, Mexicans, etc... let's not forget though, before the white man showed up most of these Native Americans were in a near continual state of conflict against each other. They tortured, they raped, they murdered each other long before colonists landed here. When we throw around words like 'aboriginal' and 'indigenous', why is the assumption that these people are somehow innocent?
The only real difference is in scale and degree.

I understand Iain. What you're saying is you reckon First Australians and other Indigenous peoples were 'offenders' in the first place so white folk are actually justified in treating them like complete and utter shi t. I disagree because inhumane behaviour isn't a solution to the poor conduct of others and I'm also listening to someone who needs to tar Indigenous people in such a way that ensures they can continue to feel comfortable with their own white history, of which I'm sure you're very proud.

[Iain Sparrow]

I understand Iain. What you're saying is you reckon First Australians and other Indigenous peoples were 'offenders' in the first place so white folk are actually justified in treating them like complete and utter shi t. I disagree because inhumane behaviour isn't a solution to the poor conduct of others and I'm also listening to someone who needs to tar Indigenous people in such a way that ensures they can continue to feel comfortable with their own white history, of which I'm sure you're very proud.


That doesn't even come close to what I'm saying!
This isn't about "white history", or if indigenous peoples 'have it coming', it's about a more honest reckoning of how current and past events played out.

For instance, consider slavery in America. It was evil, it was institutionalized, and most people have a poorly constructed notion of how that institution operated. The idea that slave ships landed off the western shores of Africa, sailors jumped into action and ran through the jungle gathering up black people and loading them aboard for the long journey back to America is utterly ridiculous. The slaves were waiting for them, most often sold into slavery by their own tribe or having been captured by a competing tribe. Blacks sold blacks into slavery by the thousands and tens of thousands. It doesn't get anyone off the hook, slavery was still evil by any reckoning. That's how history goes, it's muddy and it's ugly, and rarely is it black and white.

[Delta40]

That doesn't even come close to what I'm saying!
This isn't about "white history", or if indigenous peoples 'have it coming', it's about a more honest reckoning of how current and past events played out.

For instance, consider slavery in America. It was evil, it was institutionalized, and most people have a poorly constructed notion of how that institution operated. The idea that slave ships landed off the western shores of Africa, sailors jumped into action and ran through the jungle gathering up black people and loading them aboard for the long journey back to America is utterly ridiculous. The slaves were waiting for them, most often sold into slavery by their own tribe or having been captured by a competing tribe. Blacks sold blacks into slavery by the thousands and tens of thousands. It doesn't get anyone off the hook, slavery was still evil by any reckoning. That's how history goes, it's muddy and it's ugly, and rarely is it black and white.

Odd. You told us not to forget what Indigenous folk were like before your ancestors arrived with their oppressive racist laws because according to you, it mattered. Now you claim it's a grey area. Good! I doubt your ''honest reckoning' of anything but thankfully I'm blessed with a sense of humour. Its a wonderful morning too. Tell me Iain, how grey an area are those genetics for you now?

[Iain Sparrow]

Odd. You told us not to forget what Indigenous folk were like before your ancestors arrived with their oppressive racist laws because according to you, it mattered. Now you claim it's a grey area. Good! I doubt your ''honest reckoning' of anything but thankfully I'm blessed with a sense of humour. Its a wonderful morning too. Tell me Iain, how grey an area are those genetics for you now?

What do you mean by, "your ancestors arrived with their oppressive racist laws"?
If you've a white european background, those are your ancestors as well. Nobody gets off the hook when it comes to bad deeds. And yes those shades are still grey, fifty shades of grey.