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Dreamwoven
03-18-2016, 05:35 AM
Apologies for the lack of embedded links, for some reason this doesn't work on the book reviews forum!)

In 2003 I bought a book which argued that China discovered the world - North America, South America, Australia and New Zealand - not Columbus, Cook and others as we are taught today - The Chinese did this with their junk-rigged sailing ships - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junk_(ship), still in use today. Since junks cannot sail into the wind, they were limited to using the trade winds to reach their main markets in India. Yet Menzies argues that they conducted world-wide exploration in the early 1400s, using large fleets of junks and taking advantage of the trade winds to do so (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_winds).

Gavin Menzies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavin_Menzies) came in for a lot of criticism, even on Wikipedia. Normally, Wikipedia is reliable but this time its critique was very one-sided. But at the time I read the book none of this criticism had yet materialised. I was impressed but put the book aside. At the time I had a strong interest in the portolan charts of Europe that appeared to be so modern. Charles Hapgood had got his school class to do a joint project on the Piri Reis map and published a book on "The Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings" (1966). I re-read 1421 this year, and while I was less impressed because it was vague on details, I still found it convincing. I searched for more critiques than the one in Wikipedia and found this website - http://www.1421exposed.com/. These must have been the same people who wrote the Wikipedia item above.

It seems that China underwent a period of outward expansion, of which the navy of 1421 and the explorations carried out under the 3rd Ming Emperor by Zhou Man, Zhou Wen, and Yang Qing. It was cut short by a period of withdrawal which China has gone through, even recently, though it is once again showing interest in the wider world as its economic expansion has encouraged the search for new markets.

Gavin Menzies continues to analyse data: see http://www.gavinmenzies.net/december-2015-newsletter/.
1421

Danik 2016
03-18-2016, 04:27 PM
Interesting review, Dreamwoven. I have read some of the travel accounts to Brazil in the 16th century. But nowhere did I find a reference to the presence of China in Brazil or South America or a Chinese expedition to the American continent.
If you donīt know about it already this small expedition might interest you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kon-Tiki_expedition
The book makes good reading but the aim of the expedition is to prove that it was possible to go by raft from Peru to Polynesia.

Dreamwoven
03-20-2016, 01:26 AM
Thank you for your kind words, Danik. Yes, the data on South America is there, but need to dig it out. Its all circumstantial but there is a lot of it, including Chinese DNA. I know the book you refer to, its all about the trade winds. These were so important in the days of sail and especially for junks. and rafts that could not sail against the wind.

Dreamwoven
03-22-2016, 05:44 AM
Another aspect of this conflict between the author and his critics is that the author has excellent knowledge of ancient China which his critics do not have. My guess is that they do not like the way Columbus and Cook are being upstaged by Menzies' claim that China's earlier discoveries of North and South America and Australia and New Zealand. It is, after all, a far-reaching claim.

Danik 2016
03-22-2016, 08:44 AM
In my opinion Dreamwoven, in this age when nothing is sacred any more, certainly not science,one has to be very careful one way or another and take everything with several grains of salt. Some authors seem more moved today by a desire for fame and wealth and therefore they present polemic issues.
That Menzies has a good knowledge of ancient China is a strong point in his favour. It would be interesting to know how he is regarded by ancient China scholars.

Dreamwoven
03-22-2016, 09:19 AM
He has attended a couple of these and with some trepidation. But he was pleased at the positive feedback. It is difficult to judge the work of one person, but he keeps his website updated every 3 months. All I can say is that he adding to his results frequently. See http://www.gavinmenzies.net/blog/. I can't check up on everything he writes, but he is gradually providing more information.