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ajvenigalla
08-10-2015, 05:20 PM
Are there any among you who would consider themselves fans of "purple" prose? By purple, I will use the definition that Paul West gives:


Of course, purple is not only highly colored prose. It is the world written up, intensified and made pleasurably palpable, not only to suggest the impetuous abundance of Creation, but also to add to it by showing - showing off - the expansive power of the mind itself, its unique knack for making itself at home among trees, dawns, viruses, and then turning them into something else: a word, a daub, a sonata. The impulse here is to make everything larger than life, almost to overrespond, maybe because, habituated to life written down, in both senses, we become inured and have to be awakened with something almost intolerably vivid. When the deep purple blooms, you are looking at a dimension, not a posy

Beginning writers are often attempted to steer clear of purple prose, usually because bad purple prose is really bad and because the general tenor is to prefer leaner prose over more embellished prose — in short, to prefer Hemingway to Faulkner.
However, some of our best and most monumental works of literature do have what some would call purple prose if written today. Les Miserables by Victor Hugo is full of purplish, abundant detail. Here's one particular passage worth mentioning (it's from Part I, Book II):


You can easily imagine these two women who were both over sixty now: Madame Magloire, small, fat lively; Mademoiselle Baptistine, sweet, thin, frail, a bit taller than her brother, dressed in a puce-colored frock, a color in vogue in when she had brought it in Paris, and which was holding up well. To borrow one of those vulgar phrases that have the merit of expressing in a single word ideas that can scarcely be expressed in a page, Madame Magloire had the look of a peasant and Mademoiselle Baptistine of a lady. Madame Magloire was wearing a banded white bonnet, a little gold chain with a cross known as a jeannette around her neck, the only article of women's jewelry in the house, a bright white shawl known as a fichu peeking out of a homespun black dress with short wide sleeves, a red and green checked cotton apron, tied at the waist with a green ribbon, with a similar bodice piece, a stomacher, pinned up at the top at both corners, on her feet she wore clunky shoes and yellow stockings like the women of Marseilles....
—Les Miserables, Julie Rose translation

This is part of a much longer paragraph, and some would argue that it might technically be unnecessary. However, the prose here is beautiful, it captures a vivid sense of detail and a certain weight to the character(s) being depicted in the novel. Likewise, Hugo himself is recalling the Gothic style — heavily ornate and buttressed, with complex visual details and highly elaborate design. In this way, he is using "purple" prose in the best sense.

But what about the unnecessary stuff? Even that has its merits. For example, George Orwell, in his essay on Dickens, quoted this passage from one of his works:


Next day, child swallowed two beads; the day after that, he treated himself to three, and so on, till in a week's time he had got through the necklace — five-and-twenty beads in all. The sister, who was an industrious girl and seldom treated herself to a bit of finery, cried her eyes out at the loss of the necklace; looked high and low for it; but I needn't say, didn't find it. A few days afterwards, the family were at dinner — baked shoulder of mutton and potatoes under it — the child, who wasn't hungry, was playing about the room, when suddenly there was the devil of a noise, like a small hailstorm. ‘Don't do that, my boy’, says the father. ‘I ain't a-doin' nothing’, said the child. ‘Well, don't do it again’, said the father. There was a short silence, and then the noise began again, worse than ever. ‘If you don't mind what I say, my boy’, said the father, ‘you'll find yourself in bed, in something less than a pig's whisper.’ He gave the child a shake to make him obedient, and such a rattling ensued as nobody ever heard before. ‘Why dam' me, it's in the child’, said the father; ‘he's got the croup in the wrong place!’ ‘No, I haven't, father’, said the child, beginning to cry, ‘it's the necklace; I swallowed it, father.’ The father caught the child up, and ran with him to the hospital, the beads in the boy's stomach rattling all the way with the jolting; and the people looking up in the air, and down in the cellars, to see where the unusual sound came from. ‘He's in the hospital now’, said Jack Hopkins, ‘and he makes such a devil of a noise when he walks about, that they're obliged to muffle him in a watchman's coat, for fear he should wake the patients.’

Here's what Orwell said: "How does this advance the story? The answer is that it doesn't. It is something totally unnecessary, a florid little squiggle on the edge of the page; only, it is by just these squiggles that the special Dickens atmosphere is created." It wasn't for no reason that he said that Dickens' unmistakable flair is the unnecessary detail.

So, fellow literateurs, what say you about purple prose? Whom would you consider the best practitioners, living and dead, of the art of elaborate writing? And when would you call it terrible? And do you think it can still have a place in our modern time, a time when such stuff seems to be frowned upon?

Nikonani
08-10-2015, 05:36 PM
There's really no such thing as "purple prose." There's talented prose, and untalented prose. Just because a sentence is long and has a lot of detail does not mean it is purple or by definition excessive. A style either works or fails, and the level of detail employed is largely irrelevant. You should just ignore any writer who even touches the term "purple prose" -- especially Orwell, because he proved incessantly that he lacked enough talent in his own work to vivisection anyone else's style.

> Whom would you consider the best practitioners, living and dead, of the art of elaborate writing?

Elaborate is a worthless term that you are probably correlating to sentence length or density. That being said, I firmly believe the best prose stylists of the 20th century (in English) are/were J Joyce, J McElroy, M Lowry, and W Gass. Faulkner comes close to this crowd. Nabokov goes far from the madding crowd.

ajvenigalla
08-10-2015, 05:40 PM
^ thanks for the reply.

However I think Orwell was a pretty good writer. What makes you think he was a bad writer?

Nikonani
08-10-2015, 05:45 PM
However I think Orwell was a pretty good writer. What makes you think he was a bad writer?

As an essayist, he was adequate, but I think like Shaw he suffered in all other formats. Too interested in fleeting and mundane topics such as politics to write a decent novel, and as a stylist he was entirely average and unoriginal.

gustave dore
08-10-2015, 07:38 PM
What makes you exclude Nabokov from that group when he's often praised as one of the great prose stylists in the english language, and lolita is arguably the most influential english language novel.

ajvenigalla
08-10-2015, 08:23 PM
^ i didn't include Nabokov because he's an unquestioned prose genius.

I was more or less referring to the 19th-century masters, of which Nabokov is not one of

Nikonani
08-10-2015, 09:12 PM
What makes you exclude Nabokov from that group when he's often praised as one of the great prose stylists in the english language, and lolita is arguably the most influential english language novel.

Lolita is hardly his best novel, and I don't include him because I find his prose artificial and his style universally singular.

gustave dore
08-10-2015, 09:38 PM
What do you think is his best novel?

Nikonani
08-11-2015, 12:23 AM
What do you think is his best novel?

Either Ada/Ardor or Transparent Things. Lolita is a great novel, but even Pale Fire is a more important one of his. Pale Fire is by far his most important in structure, at the very least.

Emil Miller
08-11-2015, 10:49 AM
This thread reminds me of a phrase about a writer whose name I've forgotten i.e. 'His prose was purple but his books were read.'
In connection with which, I have just been reading a British newspaper's list of their twenty worst passages from Dan Brown including this one:

'Physicist Leonardo Vetra smelled burning flesh, and he knew it was his own.'

Ecurb
08-11-2015, 11:17 AM
I enjoyed "The Color Purple" and "Riders of the Purple Sage". Does that count?

Pompey Bum
08-11-2015, 11:27 AM
On the other hand, The Purple-Driven Life was just trash.

ajvenigalla
08-11-2015, 12:35 PM
^ you meant the purpose-driven life, I believe.

And I was talking more or less of heavily detailed, ornate, florid prose when I talk of "purple" prose.

Pompey Bum
08-11-2015, 12:42 PM
^ you meant the purpose-driven life, I believe.

Pssssssst, AJ: Joke alert! I make a lot of insipid puns. It's just the price of knowing me.


And I was talking more or less of heavily detailed, ornate, florid prose when I talk of "purple" prose.

Well, purple has its prose and cons.

Clara Salberg
08-11-2015, 04:19 PM
Heart of Darkness comes to mind as it has a quite ornately painted narration, but as people have already noted, it is not unnecessary because it has functions other than the simple telling of events

UlyssesE
08-11-2015, 05:51 PM
I think like most things, purple prose is ok done with talent, but terrible otherwise. Certainly seems to afflict some amateur authors in the worst way. Part of it might be the mistaken idea that talent means overly elaborate writing. Writing does not need to be guilded unecessarily. Like jewelry that is too flashy, it becomes tacky. There is a fine line to walk.

Eiseabhal
11-10-2015, 03:09 PM
I have read a fair amount of Orwell and I would say he used English well. He wrote two great novels. Great in the sense that their popularity shows no sign of waning despite the politics that gave rise to them having altered considerably. So although he dealt with the politics of his day there was a lot more to his work than the politics of his day. Partly it was the clarity of his style. Partly it was that he used fiction to illustrate big ideas. Some of my favorite English writers use a pared-down style: Allan Sillitoe is one Barstow is another. But I do enjoy the flamboyance of some purple prose writers every so often. Too pared down and too laconic can become dull. Too much showiness can become all surface and triviality.

Eiseabhal
11-10-2015, 03:10 PM
Look at that damned spelling of favourite . Done by the beast in the machine!

mtpspur
11-18-2015, 04:48 PM
Whenever I see the expression Purple Prose I always think of pulp fiction and E. E. 'Doc' Smith and his Lensmen science fiction series or Norvell Page's Spider pulp magazine novels(house name was Grant Stockbridge)-example title being Death Reign of the Vampire King, Dragon Lord of the Underworld or Machine Guns over the White House.

prendrelemick
11-19-2015, 07:06 AM
I'm not a fan of purple prose generally , but done well it can be very good. Laurie Lee's Cider with Rosie is great, but he is dealing with rose tinted nostalgia and the style fits.
When I get the feeling that an author is trying to impress me with his "cleverness", when he imposes himself on to the page, rather than furthering the book, I get annoyed and impatient. ( I use "his" and "himself" purposely, as it is mostly a masculine thing).