love versus god

[cacian]

should they be interlinked?
because love as we know it is between two people.
the message of god and love together allows the impression that it is ok to do whatever in the name of god and get away with
it .

[Jackson Richardson]

should they be interlinked?
because love as we know it is between two people.


No. Love isn't just strong romantic emotion (and it is perfectly possible for someone to have romantic feelings and indeed sex with more than one person) but taking account of others in their own right and taking steps to support them.

[Whifflingpin]

"Love God and do what you like" is, I think, a maxim from St Augustine. It is a perfectly acceptable maxim if you equate God with the highest good, and take it to mean "always pursue the highest good utterly and for its own sake, without stopping to consider such things as rewards or punishments or public opinion. Living by the maxim will not be easy, but, as Thomas More might have said, "it is nowhere written that you can expect to get to heaven on a feather bed."

Of course, if you confuse God with doctrine or ritual or your own self-interest then following the maxim will probably lead you into more evil than if you ignored God altogether.

[Pompey Bum]

Of course, if you confuse God with doctrine or ritual or your own self-interest then following the maxim will probably lead you into more evil than if you ignored God altogether.

Well said.

[cacian]

No. Love isn't just strong romantic emotion (and it is perfectly possible for someone to have romantic feelings and indeed sex with more than one person) but taking account of others in their own right and taking steps to support them.
romantic means two people to me anyway
having sex with others whilst being romantic or having feelings for someone else is not something i understand
unless it is not love but something else.

[cacian]

"Love God and do what you like" is, I think, a maxim from St Augustine. It is a perfectly acceptable maxim if you equate God with the highest good, and take it to mean "always pursue the highest good utterly and for its own sake, without stopping to consider such things as rewards or punishments or public opinion. Living by the maxim will not be easy, but, as Thomas More might have said, "it is nowhere written that you can expect to get to heaven on a feather bed."

Of course, if you confuse God with doctrine or ritual or your own self-interest then following the maxim will probably lead you into more evil than if you ignored God altogether.

i read somewhere off the internet
god will vindicate
and so i ask
is god vindictive?

[Whifflingpin]

Oh dear!
"vindicate" means "clear (someone) of blame or suspicion."
"vindictive" means "vengeful."
"God will vindicate" means that God is the opposite of vindictive.

[PeterL]

should they be interlinked?
because love as we know it is between two people.
the message of god and love together allows the impression that it is ok to do whatever in the name of god and get away with
it .

It depends on which God you are referring to; there are many. SOme Gods are love of some sort, while other Gods hate love. But that's love in the general sense. Love between two people relates to the God or Goddess who concerns hoe or her self with that.

[Jackson Richardson]

the message of god and love together allows the impression that it is ok to do whatever in the name of god and get away with it .

Cacian is on to something important here. The idea of God can indeed be a projection for our own fears, prejudices and self-justification. What I want should apply to you. It can also be a projection of social conformity – you mustn’t behave in a socially unacceptable way because God condemn it.

In other words, humans are making God in their own image. This is precisely the attitude that Islam and Judaism condemn as idolatry.

But the idea of God can work completely the other way – to compel us to realise that our personal subjectivity is not the only reality. Despite our self-centred awareness, there are other possibilities of justice, hope and love – love for everyone not just the nice ones.

To use a long word, religion can be transcendent.

Doctrines, imagery and ritual (depending on the doctrines, imagery and ritual) can work to make us aware of reality beyond ourselves and even the true wonder of our own being.

[cacian]

Oh dear!
"vindicate" means "clear (someone) of blame or suspicion."
"vindictive" means "vengeful."
"God will vindicate" means that God is the opposite of vindictive.

ah so easy to confuse the two but thank you for clarifying that :)

[Pompey Bum]

It can also be a projection of social conformity – you mustn’t behave in a socially unacceptable way because God condemn it.


Doctrines, imagery and ritual (depending on the doctrines, imagery and ritual) can work to make us aware of reality beyond ourselves and even the true wonder of our own being.

From a slightly different perspective, doctrine (a sanctioned religious teaching) can also be the primrose pathway to the very social conformity Jonathan mentions. I am convinced that it doesn't have to do so, although doctrine itself implies some inherent degree conformity. The solution for me is that faith (for me) is faith in God, and not in doctrine: even a doctrine I personally accept. So God by faith, doctrine by heart and mind (and not just because someone tells you you have to accept it to be in the club). This permits a religion capable of self-reflection and change without losing core faith in God. Far from making God in our own image, it ensures a truly personal relationship to God in a living, breathing (and mostly fun) religion.

I suspect that Cacian's comments had to do with something else entirely (people using religion to justify any action they choose) but I thought that my good friend Jonathan's perspective deserved to be balanced with a slightly different one.

[Whifflingpin]

Whifflingpin
"
"vindicate" means "clear (someone) of blame or suspicion."
"vindictive" means "vengeful."
"God will vindicate" means that God is the opposite of vindictive."

Cacian "ah so easy to confuse the two but thank you for clarifying that"

And I was a bit quick to make the correction. The two words come from about the same root, and vindicate used to have taking vengeance as one of its meanings.
In Deuteronomy and in Paul's letter to the Romans you will find, (depending on the translation you use) ' "Vengeance is mine," saith the Lord.' In both cases, the context is not that God is what we would now call vindictive, but that God would, in His own time, see justice done, and therefore we need not concern ourselves with revenge.

[Pompey Bum]

Vindicate, Cacian, means to vash the vindows (vith Vindex). Vindictive means to dirty them up again. "God will vindicate" means don't bother vashing them this time, I think it's going to rain.

Are you taking notes?

[cacian]

Vindicate, Cacian, means to vash the vindows (vith Vindex). Vindictive means to dirty them up again. "God will vindicate" means don't bother vashing them this time, I think it's going to rain.

Are you taking notes?

indeed i am haha :D

[cacian]

Whifflingpin
"
"vindicate" means "clear (someone) of blame or suspicion."
"vindictive" means "vengeful."
"God will vindicate" means that God is the opposite of vindictive."

Cacian "ah so easy to confuse the two but thank you for clarifying that"

And I was a bit quick to make the correction. The two words come from about the same root, and vindicate used to have taking vengeance as one of its meanings.
In Deuteronomy and in Paul's letter to the Romans you will find, (depending on the translation you use) ' "Vengeance is mine," saith the Lord.' In both cases, the context is not that God is what we would now call vindictive, but that God would, in His own time, see justice done, and therefore we need not concern ourselves with revenge.

got it.
how interesting that a word can take a different turn
thanks for the explanation it is fascinating. :)

[Munshie]

cacian

Now that the vocabulary has been clarified, I think it can be argued that God is vindictive since s/he says you're denied heaven if you don't worship him/her even though humans were given free will by God. If God is obsessed with worship (and in all religions s/he is) it would have been simpler to produce an automaton to perform the task.