Is there conflict between literature and human behaviour?

[cacian]

conflict is at the heart of every society
more and more children are getting out of hands
depressive adults
and
riots
in other words disillusion and broken families is fairly spread out

literature involves reading which means understanding human behaviour
where does it then draw between between what we in fact get up to in our daily lives and what we actually
read and write?

an example of conflict
if children are being taught Shakespeare and Sound and Fury at school, these are just two examples, then how are they expected to behave?
absence or role modelling in literature is fairly vacant in stories

are we in conflict with what we desire to be and what we write?

[Eiseabhal]

Well what DO you desire to be? I don't think WE come into it. Writers who inhabit the sewer smell of sewage. So?

[cacian]

Well what DO you desire to be?

I wish to be naturally but i am not sure i can.


I don't think WE come into it.
in what way ''we do not come into it''?
i dont understand this.


Writers who inhabit the sewer smell of sewage. So?
i want to write not crout.

[Eiseabhal]

The question was "we" but I cannot possibly comment on what other people want. Many writers though appear to be not in conflict with what they "desire" others might well want to be better writers/ human beings. Many writers are clearly in conflict with the society in which they live. Some are insiders. Some are outsiders. Some are sad strange little men. I doubt if these general comments help you.

[cacian]

I truly believe we are universal we live on the same planet
i dont think it is hard to imagine what we all want in common
the reason i say that is that we all seem to agree on how to write a story
and therefore we must have a pretty good idea what life could be about what everyone want to achieve.
humans have one common goal and that to achieve positive harmony no one likes being mistreated and left to pain.
the question was
are we in conflict with literature?
and if so
why?
i was thinking that if there was an answer to that we could all agree on that perhaps literature would no longer conflict.

[Eiseabhal]

Hmm. I did not intend to sound crabbit but I do not believe there is a common human desire. Many people I know would not wish harmony even if it were possible. Literature thrives on conflict

[PeterL]

I don't think that there is conflict between literature and human behavior, but there is conflict within human behavior and literature reflects that.

Logic is built into the human brain, and grammar communicates that logic. But literature is written, and it is not an innate ability of humans, while speech is an innate ability, so literature is a little bit foreign.

[Poetaster]

depressive adults


Speaking as a depressive adult (by which I mean actual, medical depression) I wouldn't say this has anything to do with either conflict or literature.

[cacian]

Hmm. I did not intend to sound crabbit but I do not believe there is a common human desire.

isn't there?

Many people I know would not wish harmony even if it were possible.

that confuses me.


Literature thrives on conflict
do you mean language is conflict ? literature is otherwise docile.
we do not speak the same language and all that
we dont have a common desire.
that is one conflict.
it comes across very obvious within the content of literature

[cacian]

I don't think that there is conflict between literature and human behavior, but there is conflict within human behavior and literature reflects that.

that is one good way of looking at it.

Logic is built into the human brain, and grammar communicates that logic. But literature is written, and it is not an innate ability of humans, while speech is an innate ability, so literature is a little bit foreign.
are you sure literature if foreign?
i thought the need to write has always been an incentive to communicate

[cacian]

Speaking as a depressive adult (by which I mean actual, medical depression) I wouldn't say this has anything to do with either conflict or literature.

how does one list what causes depression?

[Eiseabhal]

Cacian, although your location is noted as the capital of Englandshire you sound more Kano than Cockney. Never mind. Some authors serve their times - often dully; some authors are misanthropes; some are in conflict with their society; some are angry - often pointlessly; some are windbags; some are disappointed; some are idealistic zealots; some just nasty. I doubt if what pleased Poe would cut the candle for Jean Paul Sartre. What was sought by Wilde was not that sought by Tolstoy. What GBH thought wit would seem poor fare for Willy S. no doubt you are young, kind, idealistic and generous. The world is full of other qualities in other combinations.

[cacian]

Cacian, although your location is noted as the capital of Englandshire you sound more Kano than Cockney. Never mind. Some authors serve their times - often dully; some authors are misanthropes; some are in conflict with their society; some are angry - often pointlessly; some are windbags; some are disappointed; some are idealistic zealots; some just nasty. I doubt if what pleased Poe would cut the candle for Jean Paul Sartre. What was sought by Wilde was not that sought by Tolstoy. What GBH thought wit would seem poor fare for Willy S. no doubt you are young, kind, idealistic and generous. The world is full of other qualities in other combinations.

kano?
i dont know what that is.
i dont speak cockney either haha ;)
anyway it is true that the list of what is wrong with us goes on it is limitless
there is no limit to what we should not be
i believe our world gothic
because
literature is marked by
romance and tragedy
which gathers gothic

[Poetaster]

how does one list what causes depression?

Mental illness, life, failure. <- That's a good start.

[cacian]

Mental illness, life, failure. <- That's a good start.

sure
life is a discourse how does one achieve failure?
there is a lack of understanding between humans
failure to communicate is duly noted in their failure to connect with anything even less more with themselves.
depression is one sign of that

[PeterL]

how does one list what causes depression?

Recent evidence indicates that depression is hereditary.
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/news/science-news/2013/five-major-mental-disorders-share-genetic-roots.shtml
http://www.allaboutdepression.com/cau_03.html

Search and you will find much more about the genetic origin of depression.

[Eiseabhal]

I concede there may be a genetic predisposition to a problem like depression but I know many people who have suffered periods of depression after severe traumatic events or a multitude of small ones (The sugar in the tea effect) Depression is also an attendant symptom of dementia. Cacian seems to believe that our literature would be better being optimistic to match what she ( I assume a she!) says is a common human wish for harmonious existence. This is anyway a longstanding and respectable view on what literature should do. It is in my view at best a partial view. There seems in Cacian's thinking to be an unfortunate linking between social problems and literature. I can't believe that rioting in English cities a few years back and in some American cities recently had a lot to do with the range or quality of classroom reading of the rioters.

[Pike Bishop]

I definitely agree with Eiseabhal's final point. Not only does literature--outside of exceptions like J'Accuse, Uncle Tom's Cabin, and The Jungle (which isn't really literature--rarely have substantial societal effects, there aren't enough people out there reading literature for it to make a difference. As to the writer having to shape his or her art to better benefit society, that is just silly. Outside of not producing literally harmful fare--e.g. snuff films; pedophilia; and/or misogynistic, racist, or homophobic fare--the artist has no responsibility to anything other than his or her art, and society benefits from him or her working that way.

As to depression, it is true people suffer depression from traumatic events. However, that is significantly different from those who suffer chronic clinical depression due to an inherent chemical imbalance hindering serotonin production. So, it is important to establish the difference between the two, as well as the difference between both and everyday depression we all suffer.