Discussing James Joyce

[Pourya]

Joyce is known as one of the most perplexing authors of all time, so reading him requires a great deal of dexterity and erudition. Some people go as far as saying that he had a prescription for the modern man. As the expression goes, two heads are better than one. But i guess reading Joyce and figuring out what his prescription was needs more than one hundred heads or maybe even more. This semester at university, i've embarked upon a big project. This is about finding modernist techniques on the main works of James Joyce (mainly stylistic techniques), although i feel like i need to get help from other people and ask for their ideas. If there is anyone here who has read Joyce or who is interested in him, i would be glad to use the help

[kev67]

I keep thinking I should have a go at Joyce, but I am put off by his reputation for being very difficult.

[Ecurb]

I keep thinking I should have a go at Joyce, but I am put off by his reputation for being very difficult.

"Ulysses" IS difficult (I've never read Finnegan's wake). Start by reading "The Dead" (if you haven't read it yet). If that doesn't wet your appetite nothing will. When I read Ulysses, I read it with three other people. We'd read two chapters a week. I'd read the chapter, then I'd read a guide (I used Gilbert, but there are probably others just as good). When we convened every week we would read the second of the two chapters out loud, and then talk about it. We had a good group of out-loud readers, one of whom was an actual Irishman, born in Dublin, and they did very nice readings of the strangely punctuated text. By the time the chapter was read out loud, I could understand it and follow it quite well, and even understand some of the references and nuances (from reading the guide).

It was quite fun, actually, but if I hadn't put in as much effort, it might not have been. The first time I read a chapter, I'd often be sailing along, reading at my usual, rapid rate, and suddenly realize that I hadn't the vaguest notion of what had happened in the last page or two.

[Lykren]

Joyce is known as one of the most perplexing authors of all time, so reading him requires a great deal of dexterity and erudition. Some people go as far as saying that he had a prescription for the modern man. As the expression goes, two heads are better than one. But i guess reading Joyce and figuring out what his prescription was needs more than one hundred heads or maybe even more. This semester at university, i've embarked upon a big project. This is about finding modernist techniques on the main works of James Joyce (mainly stylistic techniques), although i feel like i need to get help from other people and ask for their ideas. If there is anyone here who has read Joyce or who is interested in him, i would be glad to use the help

Well, what kind of help exactly do you need? Would a conversation that attempts to classify and dissect his stylistic techniques be helpful?

Personally I like to shy away from the idea that an author provides us with some kind of prescription on how to live our lives in the face of X and Y new developments. It's an enriching activity to engage with the beauty, grace, innovation or what have you of a great novel like Ulysses, but I don't think such analysis would lead to any such definite prescriptive statement... unless I am misunderstanding you? In any case I'm happy to see a thread on Joyce. I consider Ulysses the best novel I've ever read (though Proust is edging closer the further I get into In Search of Lost Time) and certainly the one with the densest application of diverse styles - though I feel also that these styles are organized with an eye toward overarching synthesis of effect.

I'm no Joyce expert however, and I don't know that there are many around here. Good luck, let us know whenever you need help or ideas! We'll do our best.

[Lykren]

Regarding Kev's concern and Ecurb's comment, Ecurb is dead on, Kev. There are many great guides and taking time with like-minded friends is an excellent means of enhancing your appreciation of the text.

[Pourya]

don't worry Kev, that make the reading a real challenge and that's very exciting to try to figure out where the difficulty lies and decipher the whole text. BTW, one needs to know a lot about the context Joyce wrote in, so without knowing the Dublin Joyce was talking about it's almost impossible to understand him or even his fellow poet W.B. Yeats :)

[Pourya]

"Ulysses" IS difficult (I've never read Finnegan's wake). Start by reading "The Dead" (if you haven't read it yet). If that doesn't wet your appetite nothing will. When I read Ulysses, I read it with three other people. We'd read two chapters a week. I'd read the chapter, then I'd read a guide (I used Gilbert, but there are probably others just as good). When we convened every week we would read the second of the two chapters out loud, and then talk about it. We had a good group of out-loud readers, one of whom was an actual Irishman, born in Dublin, and they did very nice readings of the strangely punctuated text. By the time the chapter was read out loud, I could understand it and follow it quite well, and even understand some of the references and nuances (from reading the guide).

It was quite fun, actually, but if I hadn't put in as much effort, it might not have been. The first time I read a chapter, I'd often be sailing along, reading at my usual, rapid rate, and suddenly realize that I hadn't the vaguest notion of what had happened in the last page or two.
U were really lucky to have had that group. Actually i'm kinda looking for such a group but in its online and virtual form. There are so many aspects to consider in order to get the hang of Joyce. I personally have to focus on its stylistics and how he used or innovated some modernist techniques like using allusions, intertextualities, stream of consciousness, narrations and so on. Lemme know if ur in for such a discussion group :)

[Pourya]

Well, what kind of help exactly do you need? Would a conversation that attempts to classify and dissect his stylistic techniques be helpful?

Personally I like to shy away from the idea that an author provides us with some kind of prescription on how to live our lives in the face of X and Y new developments. It's an enriching activity to engage with the beauty, grace, innovation or what have you of a great novel like Ulysses, but I don't think such analysis would lead to any such definite prescriptive statement... unless I am misunderstanding you? In any case I'm happy to see a thread on Joyce. I consider Ulysses the best novel I've ever read (though Proust is edging closer the further I get into In Search of Lost Time) and certainly the one with the densest application of diverse styles - though I feel also that these styles are organized with an eye toward overarching synthesis of effect.

I'm no Joyce expert however, and I don't know that there are many around here. Good luck, let us know whenever you need help or ideas! We'll do our best.i sorta said what kinda help i need in my reply to Ecurb. And sure yes, a conversation would be fantastic. I'm a firm believer in the Socratic method of learning, understanding takes place in the ebb and flow of conversation. I'm reading a lotta books on modernism trying to find out what context Joyce wrote in, so right now my focus is turned into modernism in general, i'm reading a bit of all modernists at the time, poems by Yeats, Sassoon, Pound, Eliot and the others and stories by Woolf, Faulkner, and other big names. I'm saying so in case anyone is interested in these authors too.
And as for my statement of Joyce's prescription, i haven't read Ulysses yet, i've just heard some ppl say that, but i guess they say so is that Joyce tried to get into human nature by getting focused on a specific city, as he said "if i can conquer Dublin it's as if i have conquered human nature". By his allusions and comparisons he makes each individual think about his existence and his or her journey in the world and provoking such questions as to be or not to be can be the best prescription in my idea. But i'm sure what Joyce had in mind doesn't stop at this point. Well i have to read him and understand him first to figure out that :)
Also tnx for ur offer for help, i think if we could create a discussion group here or on skype, that would be great. it doesn't have to be abt Joyce per se, we could discuss all types of literary works...

[sandy14]

Ulysses sounds great on the ear. If you are struggling - try reading it aloud. Naxos did an unabridged reading a while back which makes the task somewhat easier, and the BBC has broadcast two abridged dramatisations which are worthwhile.

I like Joyce's short stories more - Evelyn & the Dead were pretty good.

[cacian]

I keep thinking I should have a go at Joyce, but I am put off by his reputation for being very difficult.

good point
i wonder why he was difficult. he did not have an issue with language or did he??

[JCamilo]

Rather Languague had an issue with him.

[Clopin]

Dubliners isn't the least bit difficult and it's an excellent collection. Portrait is also easy enough and very worth reading. I haven't read either Ulysses or FA, except a few paragraphs in passing and they both seem... harder.