Pros and contras of different languages

[axolotl]

I have heard that English has more words than Spanish, and its richer and complex than Romances Language. But i'm pretty sure Spanish has more tenses. In another corner, Chinese has its ideograms and pictograms, mixing visual and semantic meaning in each hanzy.
So, hypotetically talking, for an english writer, what are its advantages? English is more onomatopoeic, I think. But... the another languages, what can offer to the table?

[Pompey Bum]

I love my native language, English, because it marries the gorgeous vowel sounds of Romance languages to the harder, more consonantal quality of the Germanic. "The sacred of French and the profane of German" is overstating it (and wrong), but bittersweet is not, at least for me. English is this odd hybrid that lends itself to wordplay and yet is capable of expressing a wide range of powerful emotions. That combination is Shakespeare's secret, I think. No matter how profound or insightful he gets, on a certain level he just loves to play with the language.

But that doesn't mean English is "richer" than a Romance language, especially if you are talking about rich and melodious vowel sounds. Romance languages beat English hands down where assonance is concerned. And as far as complexity goes, language is a part of culture and all cultures are complex. English is currently in the process of losing its subjunctive mood. I forget if your native language is Spanish or Portuguese (sorry :)), but the extent to which it retains a subjunctive would be one measure of comparative complexity. English also has far fewer gendered words than most western languages (almost none). Granted it has a lot of rules (and some downright funky spelling), but it's certainly simpler than Polish, which has, um, a challenging spelling scheme to say the least, and even retains case endings like a classical language. Talk about rules!

What are your experiences with English? Do you find it complicated? Versatile? Do you like using it? If you are reading Nabokov, you must be quite adept at this point. What other authors have you tried? Who do you like best?

[axolotl]

i really liked your comment. i have read some faulkner, some shakespeare, some woolf (the waves), and wilde. i like english language, but i'm not good at it. i wish i could read joyce like a native english speaker thought. i'm from spain, land of mystics. i'm no good at writing in english.

[Clopin]

You must be pretty good if you're reading Faulkner and Woolf (especially the waves); I can't imagine what a nightmare it would be to read something equivalent in a second language.

[axolotl]

not the hard ones of faulkner! requiem for a nun and sanctuary.

[Calidore]

i wish i could read joyce like a native english speaker thought.

Many (most?) native English speakers struggle with Joyce as well, mostly because Joyce wanted them to. Don't feel bad about it.

[OrphanPip]

English has the same tenses as romance languages, they're just less complex in English because we use auxiliary verbs in combination with the past or present participle (and sometimes the infinitive), so there is relatively little conjugation.

[YesNo]

Many (most?) native English speakers struggle with Joyce as well, mostly because Joyce wanted them to. Don't feel bad about it.

Yeah. I think it might be easier if one doesn't know English to try to read Joyce's "Finnegan's Wake".

Here's a blog post by someone called Robert who expresses my view of Joyce: http://101books.net/2012/02/15/finnegans-wake-a-literary-practical-joke/

[Clopin]

Hey it's unfair to lump the author of Dubliners and 'A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man' in with Finnegans Wake! I haven't read Ulysses yet though.

[YesNo]

Actually the first 20 to 40 pages of Ulysses is very good. I've read it multiple times each time thinking I'll be able to finish the book but stop around the end of chapter 1.

Here's a sample from Finnegan's Wake, actually the first few lines of the third section: https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/j/joyce/james/j8f/episode13.html


Hark!
Tolv two elf kater ten (it can’t be) sax.
Hork!
Pedwar pemp foify tray (it must be) twelve.
And low stole o’er the stillness the heartbeats of sleep.
White fogbow spans. The arch embattled. Mark as capsules. The nose of the man who was nought like the nasoes.

Great stuff.

[Pompey Bum]

Well if I were you, Axolotl, I'd just pretend that Joyce doesn't exist. That's worked for me for years. :) If you are interested in relatively straightforward 20th century English prose, though, I would suggest any or all of the following:

Sons and Lovers by D.H. Lawrence
Howards End by E.M. Forster
A Passage to India by E.M. Forster
Brideshead Revisited by Evelyn Waugh
Sword of Honor Trilogy by Evelyn Waugh
The Alexandria Quartet by Lawrence Durrell
Code of the Woosters by P.G. Woodhouse
Joy in the Morning by P.G. Woodhouse

You may also want to try Hemingway, whose prose is terse and Spartan. But you have to have a taste for Hemingway, which personally I don't. (Give me P.G. Woodhouse any day). Oh and if you want a really fun late 20th century "future classic," try The Secret History by Donna Tartt. It's not too hard, but has a high return.

[Lykren]

Brideshead Revisited is by Evelyn Waugh, did you mean to put A Passage to India?

[Pompey Bum]

No, I meant to say Howards End, but I changed it without changing the author. :blush: Thanks, Lykren. A Passage to India would be good, too.

Edit: There, I added 'em all. Enjoy, Axolotl! :)

[Jackson Richardson]

I'm not sure Wodehouse is a good idea for a non-English speaker. In fact I'm sure he isn't. He is based on parody and that gets lost in translation. In Italy I bought a copy of Perfetto, Jeeves, translating Right Ho! Jeeves and when I compared well know phrases they just didn't work.

Pompey slipped up above. (We all do.) E M Foster certainly didn't write Brideshead Revisited. Did Pompey mean Evelyn Waugh or another E M Foster book? (Foster would be good for a non-English speaker. I'd be interested what an Italian made of A Room with a View or Where Angels Fear to Tread: both short books to give a newcomer confidence that they can finish a real book.)

[Pompey Bum]

Thanks Jonathan. I changed a book without changing the author, so yes, a screw up. Lykren already caught it, though, and I have made amends.

You may be right about Wodehouse. I included him because his prose is not too complicated (despite the zany colloquialisms). Axolotl may want to try one of the Jeeves stories and see how it works. But if so, yes, be forewarned, it's exaggerated farce. The best since Plautus, in my opinion.

[Pompey Bum]

Foster would be good for a non-English speaker. I'd be interested what an Italian made of A Room with a View or Where Angels Fear to Tread: both short books to give a newcomer confidence that they can finish a real book.)

Yes, I recommended the Lawrence Durrell books for the same reason. They are intelligent enough without being too intimidating in length to a novice. I suppose that's so of Graham Greene's books, too. Lucky Axolotl! All these fun authors ahead of you! It's enough to make the old-timers a little jealous. :)

[Jackson Richardson]

" He looked as if he'd been stuffed in a hurry by an incompetent taxidermist."

If you appreciate that, you'll love Wodehouse. (From The Mating Season describing a parish priest introducing a village concert to raise funds for the church organ. Probably my favourite chapter in Wodehouse.)