God's Teaching is Practicable, It has Maximum and Minimum Standards. Ways of Advice.

[YALASH]

Peace be on you.
God sends religious laws for the benefit of human who have diverse mental and physical capabilities. Religious laws in Holy Quran have minimum and maximum standards for practice. “Allah burdens not any soul beyond its capacity……” (Holy Quran ch2:v287). When human acts on His directives which He has asked to do, grants unlimited reward. Religious law or Shariah is based on softness.

When a person came to Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) and asked him about Islam, he (p.b.u.h.) told him about five compulsory daily Prayers, financial sacrifice Zakaat and Ramadan fasting and upon his further enquiry man was told if he could offer extra to these essentials it will be extra reward for him. The man went back saying he will stay with basics. Holy Prophet (p.b.u.h.) said if he will do so he will be successful.


So it evident from it that Islam has not asked everyone to observe very high standards like companions Hazrat Abu Bakr (r.a.) and Hazrat Umer (r.a.) did when they brought full and half things in house respectively to help a cause of time. Islam makes obligations based on least common human capabilities.


One is encouraged to increase capacities to go for high standards though. One way of doing it to help weaker friends in faith.


Ahmadiyya Khalifah asks religious teachers of his community to focus on uplifting the member's spiritual and other capacities.

(khalifaofislamDOTcom)

[MANICHAEAN]

Dear Yalash

If its not too personal a question, may I ask what is the range of your reading outside of the subject that is obviously dear to your heart?

A priest will have his devotions, and a rabbi a study of the sacred books of his faith, but I often wonder what numerous individuals of a strong religious faith read in their "spare time."

One Catholic Father I knew had a great interest in the Graham Greene novels and those by Evelyn Waugh for obvious reasons.

But I wonder how many of the classics in English Literature you are acquainted with?

Best regards
M.

[YALASH]

Peace be on you. Interesting question. This humble does not fit any of titles you have mentioned above. I can read - people, free birds and two parakeets in cage, world current events - their background (overt or covert) and where they are leading to, science, organizations and their plus minus. Once started War and Peace and The Three Musketeers but soon came to realization that, I have to move on in the direction of future, not back to past. Newspapers' thought provoking article are interesting to read. Rich and poor nations' ups and declines are interesting to know. English is not my first language though, but please do not stop reading what I try to convey in sincere spirit.

Thanks.

[mal4mac]

War & Peace are of the future, as much as they are of the past, and of the present, and Tolstoy's great book, of this title, has much to say about these matters. By dismissing it so lightly you insult Western culture as much as certain French and Scandinavian cartoonists insult your prophet.

[Pompey Bum]

Well, as a lover of Tolstoy's great novel, I want to assert that I took no offense by the comment. And Yalash, of course, is a friend, and a man of peace and God, and not to be associated with the violence he has the courage to openly oppose.

I agree with Mal, however, that War and Peace is a book of ideas for the future (and present) as much as the past. Perhaps you may want to try it again at another time in your life. You might also like to read The Kingdom of God is Within. Or perhaps you have already found all you need. But I highly recommend those two.

[YesNo]

As I think about the topic of the thread, maximum and minimum standards, it seems to me that in general we don't often know what is the minimum that should be done and when we have done enough. It doesn't matter what our minds are focused on: taking care of our children, investing, performing religious practices, reading books or losing weight.

In the case of losing weight, I was 185 pounds (at 6 ft) a while back and set a target for 175. I am now at 177 to 179 and now I'm thinking maybe I should do more and try to reduce my weight to 170. I should set a limit and stick with it. For my height 175 is enough.

[YALASH]

War & Peace are of the future, as much as they are of the past, and of the present, and Tolstoy's great book, of this title, has much to say about these matters. By dismissing it so lightly you insult Western culture as much as certain French and Scandinavian cartoonists insult your prophet.

Peace be on you. Definitely I did not mean to insult anyone. Every culture has its unique values and diverse people can get benefit from each other from global village. My try to read was many years ago, will try again. There is prophecy in Islam that: Sun will rise from West in latter days. We, the Ahmadiyya Muslims, believe that, these are promised latter days [1000 years era (from late 1800 onward)] with promised reformer has come. After the continued persecution in East, many migrated to West and our Khilafat Head Office was to go to UK (which is West) since 1984. If you find few words of caution about West (as my recent blog entry said), it should not be taken as if we are anti-West.

No hard feelings.




Well, as a lover of Tolstoy's great novel, I want to assert that I took no offense by the comment. And Yalash, of course, is a friend, and a man of peace and God, and not to be associated with the violence he has the courage to openly oppose.

I agree with Mal, however, that War and Peace is a book of ideas for the future (and present) as much as the past. Perhaps you may want to try it again at another time in your life. You might also like to read The Kingdom of God is Within. Or perhaps you have already found all you need. But I highly recommend those two.

Peace be on you. Thanks for encouragement. I will surely try what you have suggested. Thank you. Do you know any place (site) where one can read closest abridgement [or short] of classical great books of various cultures?




As I think about the topic of the thread, maximum and minimum standards, it seems to me that in general we don't often know what is the minimum that should be done and when we have done enough. It doesn't matter what our minds are focused on: taking care of our children, investing, performing religious practices, reading books or losing weight.

In the case of losing weight, I was 185 pounds (at 6 ft) a while back and set a target for 175. I am now at 177 to 179 and now I'm thinking maybe I should do more and try to reduce my weight to 170. I should set a limit and stick with it. For my height 175 is enough.

Peace be on you. Thanks for opinion and good wishes to your weight loss program. More weight stresses lower discs of spine.

[mal4mac]

Peace be on you. Thanks for encouragement. I will surely try what you have suggested. Thank you. Do you know any place (site) where one can read closest abridgement [or short] of classical great books of various cultures?

I would not recommend reading an abridgement of War & Peace. It's an "artistic whole" that should not be abridged. Would you abridge the Koran? To make it easier, I would suggest reading the most straightforward translation. If there is no suitable edition in your first language, you might want to look at several English translations to see which you like. The most recent I read was the Pevear and Volokhonsky translation, which I found very straightforward. I've also read the Maude translation, which I rate as highly, but is perhaps more demanding for someone with English as a second language. But it has the advantage of being available for free on the web, including on this site

http://www.online-literature.com/tolstoy/war_and_peace/

But this is not a classic of English Literature, for that I would start with Shakespeare, and for a serious adult like yourself, Yalash, you might as well start at the top with Hamlet:

http://www.online-literature.com/shakespeare/hamlet/

This is early 17th century English, so it will be a struggle, but it's worth it!

[Pompey Bum]

Peace to you, too, my friend. :) I agree with Mal4 that abridgments are not the answer. Also, if I may offer an opinion, from what I know of you, I'm not sure that War and Peace is the right book for you (despite my great enthusiasm for it). Instead I would suggest Fyodor Dostoyevsky's The Brothers Karamazov, which examines three approaches to life: the worldly, the sacred, and the intellectual. This is also a voluminous Russian classic (not as long as War and Peace, but long enough), and it would require a good bit of time to read and think about. So if not now, perhaps at some point in your life. Personally I love both of them, but somehow I get the feeling that The Brothers Karamazov would be more meaningful for you. You must, of course, decide for yourself. You can download free versions of both works at the Project Gutenberg website, or read them online at this one.

I also agree with Mal4 about Shakespeare. You should get student editions with lots of footnotes until you become comfortable with the archaic English. It's hard at first, but the poetry is like nothing else in the world, and you do get a knack for the language before too long. The nice thing about reading Shakespeare's works is that, because most are plays, you can experience each with only a day or two of reading--unlike War and Peace or The Brothers Karamazov. I also agree that you should start at the top, as Mal4 suggests. But there we differ slightly: for me, the top is King Lear. But certainly you should read the great tragedies (if you have not done so already): King Lear, Macbeth, Hamlet, and Othello. But there are many more, and each is a treasure in its own way. We discuss and rank our favorites here:

http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?81279-Rank-Shakespeare-s-plays

[YALASH]

Peace be on you mal4mac and Pompey Bum.
Thank you very much for your very valuable expert guidance. I will InshaAllah try.

Your words have sparked some memories. There is one year in this humble's life which I spent in Moscow as international student when our Holy Khalifah asked us to go to convey our message and for learning. No first language or English would work (though native people were opening up to English), foreign companies were flooding markets with goods and locals would stand in lines for 'khaleb' (long elliptical bread), various mafias were present. I lost about 10 Kg weight in 10 months but learnt something about society and people. In last weeks, i walked quite a lot to see old alleys and life there. I heard from a friend that there is a lady professor who is translating Holy Quran. I bought maps and took a card which could work in metro and bus alike, but I could not find the scholar. Building numbers would not match the maps. When asked people, they were sympathetic but smiled at my innocent ignorance. Walking to stalovia (student's cafe) in evening at -40 degrees, we asked each other who were the first people to come and lived here. After half a year, place was closed and was turned into an office.

It was common to wave hand to a car, if fare was settled, just sit down and reach your destination on the way.

Eggs were in 10, not 12.

People were fond of reading books during travel in metro.



It is useful to wander off sometimes as off-topic. is not it?

N.B. Translation of following books are found in my first language. Yet to see. Things in own language are felt as if one is seeing in bright light.

War and Peace
Pride and Prejudice
King Lear
Hamlet
Othello
Tale of Two Cities
Tess of D’Urbervilles
Mayor of Casterbridge
Paradise Lost
Anna Karenina

Brothers Karamazov's reviews are strong, will have to read it.


That will be helpful in a global village if each great novel in major languages is translated in other major languages so that people easily know others' heritage, but it will be a mammoth project.


Thank you for all suggestions.
Good wishes.

[russellb]

Is it necessary for Yalash to do all this reading? As for Tolstoy, at least according to a John Bayley introduction to 'Anna Karenina,' he came to conclude that his two great novels were worthless and all that mattered was the pursuit of God and Truth. It seems to me that you're well on the way there Yalash and there might be people who've read half the books in the Bodlean Library in Oxford who are behind you

[Iain Sparrow]

Is it necessary for Yalash to do all this reading? As for Tolstoy, at least according to a John Bayley introduction to 'Anna Karenina,' he came to conclude that his two great novels were worthless and all that mattered was the pursuit of God and Truth. It seems to me that you're well on the way there Yalash and there might be people who've read half the books in the Bodlean Library in Oxford who are behind you

uhm, actually it's the Bodleian Library of Oxford, and like England herself... it is a dead place of past glories, where dusty books gather more dust. If it were up to me, and I were King; I would shut its mighty oak doors forever, and burn all the books within.
Most of the best knowledge comes from experiencing the world, not from books, and certainly not in the pursuit of God, and/or Truth.

[russellb]

I guess we people living in this "dead place" can be thankful that you're not King then. Does your monarchical fantasy embrace any other stupid ideas?

[Jackson Richardson]

Since we're a constiutional monarchy, the sovereign can only act on the advice of HER prime minister, whoever SHE or he may be.

Since the Bodleian is a copyright library, it is adding to its stock every day: it is entitled to everything published in the UK. A good deal of its recent stuff will be held electronically, I'd imagine.

PS King Lear is far more worthwhile than Hamlet.

And surely the pursuit of truth is the best knowledge?

[Iain Sparrow]

I guess we people living in this "dead place" can be thankful that you're not King then. Does your monarchical fantasy embrace any other stupid ideas?

Why yes, I am full of stupid ideas... that those who search for that which does not exist (God, Truth, Peace), do so out of self-loathing, and a pretentious belief that we are *special*.

[Jackson Richardson]

And you're special because you can see through the rest of the self loathing crowd like the rest of us?

[Iain Sparrow]

Since we're a constiutional monarchy, the sovereign can only act on the advice of HER prime minister, whoever SHE or he may be.

Since the Bodleian is a copyright library, it is adding to its stock every day: it is entitled to everything published in the UK. A good deal of its recent stuff will be held electronically, I'd imagine.

PS King Lear is far more worthwhile than Hamlet.

And surely the pursuit of truth is the best knowledge?


I loved King Lear... thought Hamlet to be either Shakespeare's best work, or worst... ah well, a misspent Summer studying Shakespeare in Cambridge long ago didn't help matters.:)

Whose truth?.. pursue it if you must; Between our birth and death we may touch understanding, As a moth brushes a window with its wing. -Christopher Fry

[Iain Sparrow]

And you're special because you can see through the rest of the self loathing crowd like the rest of us?

Imagine how life appears to a cat... a butterfly and an axe-murderer are of equal interest, are they not?
That's why I like cats over dogs, they seem to live in a less ambiguous universe... if you get my meaning.:)

[russellb]

Why yes, I am full of stupid ideas... that those who search for that which does not exist (God, Truth, Peace), do so out of self-loathing, and a pretentious belief that we are *special*.

Peace does not exist but in theory at least we can create it, which I think would have more to do with self preservation than self loathing. Perhaps this connects to the pursuit of God and Truth which seems to me to have more to do with humility than the arrogance you speak of

[Iain Sparrow]

Peace does not exist but in theory at least we can create it, which I think would have more to do with self preservation than self loathing. Perhaps this connects to the pursuit of God and Truth which seems to me to have more to do with humility than the arrogance you speak of

Humility?.. seems to me that believing one's self was created by God, and if all ends well in that pursuit, secures a position in Heaven for eternity is almost as 'unhumble' as it gets.

[Jackson Richardson]

Not only I, but everyone else was created by God and my consciousness is not the centre of the universe.

Incidentally, Jews have only a few indirect references to heaven in their scriptures and Hindus certainly believe in God but not in heaven.

It strikes me that breaking in on this thread to proclaim your atheism is just as tactful as a fundamentalist evangelical shouting out in a gay bar "Do you accept Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Saviour?"

[Iain Sparrow]

Not only I, but everyone else was created by God and my consciousness is not the centre of the universe.

Incidentally, Jews have only a few indirect references to heaven in their scriptures and Hindus certainly believe in God but not in heaven.

It strikes me that breaking in on this thread to proclaim your atheism is just as tactful as a fundamentalist evangelical shouting out in a gay bar "Do you accept Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Saviour?"

uh yeah, your consciousness may not be the centre of the universe, but as you're a follower of that entity at the centre of the universe, nay, that entity that rules the centre and every corner of the universe... you can hardly claim to be humble while riding on the coattails of God.

And no need for an evangelical preacher to venture into a gay bar... gay folks are destined for Hell anyways, or so your religion proclaims.

[Jackson Richardson]

I've been to bed with another man for the past forty years and I go to church every Sunday, where the vicar has a civil partner and both the curates are gay. Atheism strikes me as very straight.

And some dim evangelical might think it is his/her duty to witness to the unreedemed. You are doing just the same thing.

[NikolaiI]

Hey - jumping in on this late; all I am experiencing right now is total joy and love, and. . in this conversation - only comes to me as a pleasntry, with no stake but much gladness. .

it's just. . this feeling is so lovely - and

Johnathan, I love you brother!

That is so - just, that was beautiful.

One thing all religions teach in one way or another is non-attachment, or in the Western sense stoicism. . . definitely it's always easier when a discussion is between two or several people besides oneself. .

The reason for non-attachment would definitely seem to be that if neither point - if nothing really, is either jerking me around by attachment to it, or aversion -

in other words, if the mind is not attached to objects, then no objects that appear will jerk the mind around -

And, that's just one principle in the whole schebang- a useful one, but only partially as are so many others, such as peace, wisdom, clarity and millions of things, also make up life


Anyway - even when I got to the point where I was (and still am) able to have a discussion with someone about anything - or debate - with only good will . .

I have found it's almost illimitably better, usually, to refrain, because even if I am able to discuss such points without any bother - sometimes debates can be unpleasant -

and generally nothing that is said that brings unpleasantness also brings understanding or friendship -

And it is indeed understanding which is the only true goal of any inquiry into life or the matter -

and this is why, as my father always would share or mention, that to win an argument is impossible. Or if - just if, you manage somehow to convince someone, after years or minutes of ear-wrangling, that your side of viewing the matter is correct, and get them to grudgingly admit you were correct; you very likely may have lost a friend - and, further, along down the line they will likely simply go back to their previous idea.


This along with so many other things indicate that persuasion isn't desirable - and yet, shouldn't we? if we have a good idea that is true? and that answer would be yes. . it woudl seem.

Just one of the beauties and complexities of life.

And I know that my new way of writing, with long-ish points and short paragraphs may sometimes seem different; still I think it is just fine, especially when at the beginning and end, I am often or sometimes wishing peace and happiness, and many if not all of the points in the middle are completely neutral, I think it is okay! :-)

Hehe.

Anyway, gently and kindly and with much glad humour and well-wishing, my humble opinion is Jonathan seems completely right with this, and also as I said, your point as well as your way of expressing it, seem quite lovely JonathanB.

Oh, and by the by, as a (nearly) lifelong scholar of Hinduism and Zen and a few others, I would humbly correct you on the point of Hindus believing in heaven. They believe in many, essentially infinite heaven realms, they just believe that staying in those realms isn't a good idea, as it just burns up good karma - whilst enjoying heavenly pleasures - the reason they don't believe one should stay there is because while staying in the material realm at all, one is fluid, sometimes going higher and sometimes going lower -

Oh I should have said also that the highest heavens are still in the material realm - and those are all spiritual beings, very good and elevated - angels or demigods, called devas - but yeah - I guess you get the picture.

So in their view - beyond the highest material heaven, then you enter the spiritual realm, and there, there is no chance of falling again, as everything is eternal.

I hope I haven't gone too far into that description, for your taste, dear friend! Just got off into the answer a bit. At least it's neutral :-)

Peace, all ^.^ (that's a Korean smiley!)

[mona amon]

Why yes, I am full of stupid ideas... that those who search for that which does not exist (God, Truth, Peace), do so out of self-loathing, and a pretentious belief that we are *special*.

Iain, things like peace may not exist in the absolute sense of everywhere for everyone all of the time, but there is such a thing as relative peace, and it's surely well worth striving for. We will never know the whole truth about life, the universe and everything, but to give up on the positives of life like peace, goodness, mercy, justice, whatever just because evil exists and always will seems rather cynical, don't you think?


Oh, and by the by, as a (nearly) lifelong scholar of Hinduism and Zen and a few others, I would humbly correct you on the point of Hindus believing in heaven. They believe in many, essentially infinite heaven realms, they just believe that staying in those realms isn't a good idea, as it just burns up good karma - whilst enjoying heavenly pleasures - the reason they don't believe one should stay there is because while staying in the material realm at all, one is fluid, sometimes going higher and sometimes going lower -

Wow! As a non-hindu living in India, Hinduism seems to me something incredibly intricate, complicated, almost incomprehensible but kind of beautiful.


all I am experiencing right now is total joy and love, and. . in this conversation - only comes to me as a pleasntry, with no stake but much gladness.

I am really happy to hear it. :)

[Jackson Richardson]

Johnathan, I love you brother!


Gosh, NikolaiI, thank you. You're a sweetie.

In fact I should have shut up about my private life. I should have just pointed out that some dim but well meaning evangelicals might well think that active gays are going to hell and hope to stop them. Iain is just as in yer face as they would be.

[NikolaiI]

Wow! As a non-hindu living in India, Hinduism seems to me something incredibly intricate, complicated, almost incomprehensible but kind of beautiful.

I saw you were online that day, and I was actually hoping you'd post! :-) Pleasant coincidence, hehe.

I had actually forgotten you are Christian, Mona! Although as you said it, I intsantly remembered. :)



Gosh, NikolaiI, thank you. You're a sweetie.

In fact I should have shut up about my private life. I should have just pointed out that some dim but well meaning evangelicals might well think that active gays are going to hell and hope to stop them. Iain is just as in yer face as they would be.

That's very kind of you, thanks!

I wouldn't necessarily say that, although where I am from, people are as a rule, very open, very kind, warm-hearted, and a bit heroic. I have had to tone down the open-heart when I go North or East, for instance, just a bit. . I often end up back in my home state, however, as they are so warm.

Ah, the way you said it was beautifully illustrated, and that's good to get a point across.

Christianity is not a cult, and so it can be transformed - just take a look at Unitarian Universalism, for instance, for one, if you'd like to see a progressive. One of my ancestors, Joseph Prisetly, had a hand in founding it (or at least, Unitarianism, its predecessor). I don't believe in creating more sects but I am fairly certain there is a worldwide, upward movement out of prejudice and towards enlightenment.

The one thing I would not agree with in any religion is when they put someone above others. . in Presbyterianism, there is the idea of the prisethood of all believers; and while there are still imbalances there - as probably almost any human group - I don't think you have many preachers with a 40 million or 140 million dollar net worth flying around in private jets - to me that is wrong. And the solution would seem to be - place all faith in oneself, and in nature, and in God, and find that calm center from which, when we act, we are truly free.