The Camphill Village Movement

[Dreamwoven]

Under Theosophy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosophy) the following quote can be read:

Several organizations developed from the popularization of Blavatsky's ideas and are considered new religious movements.[17] Theosophical Society lodges also continue to exist in many places. Some of the German-speaking members of the Theosophical Society left it to follow Rudolf Steiner's Anthroposophy after the forming of the Anthroposophical Society in 1912.

The turn of the century from the 1800s to the 1900s was a period of interest in spiritual matters. There were many such "New Age" type movements at this time and Anthroposophy derived from Theosophy as a separate spiritual movement, led by the Austrian Rudolf Steiner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Steiner). He also founded Waldorf Schools (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldorf_education). Rudolf Steiner was born in the Austro-Hungarian Empire in what is today Croatia.

Part of the Anthroposophical Movement was the Camphill Movement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camphill_Movement), for the care of young people with developmental disabilities. This was started by Austrian jews who were fleeing persecution from Nazism, notably Dr. Karl König (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_König). The movement is named after Camphill in Northeast Scotland where König set up the first such community. The Camphill Movement has since then spread worldwide and can be found in most countries of the world. See Camphill.net (http://camphill.net).

[YesNo]

One tends to forget the people who have disabilities and their families unless they are in our own family.

[Dreamwoven]

Have you ever been to a Camphill?

[Jackson Richardson]

I spent six months as an assistant with a Camphill village in the 70s. I was very grateful at the respect shown for the mentally handicapped children (as they were then called) and appreciated the dedication of the community members. I was deeply put off by the ethos though. It was very, very Germanic and terribly, terribly tasteful. I can remember taking the bus into a nearby town on my day off and being relieved to see a shop selling sequins for ball room dancing. Vulgarity and camp were never allowed at Camphill.

I am very familiar with Christian monasteries and have stayed in many. I have never found there the sense of superiority to a common world which I sensed at the Camphill place.

It confirmed my sense that orthodox Christianity takes account of the paradoxes and ambiguities of ordinary life.

[Dreamwoven]

I tend to agree with you, JonathanB. I spent 6 month in a Camphill in the 1980s. It varies a lot from one place to another and no doubt over time at the same one. I remain drawn to the way of life, but not enough to make a commitment.

[YesNo]

Have you ever been to a Camphill?

I haven't been to one.

[NikolaiI]

Oh, for God's sake.


I began to ask questions. What is Anthroposophy? Why don't teachers allow students in the preschool through the early elementary grades to use black crayons in their drawings? Why do students use the wet-on-wet watercolor painting technique exclusively for so many years? Why is mythology taught as history? Where is the American flag, and why don't Waldorf schools teach civics lessons in America? In a school system that promotes itself as "education toward freedom," why do students copy everything from the blackboard? Why do Waldorf teachers talk in high voices and sing-song directions to their classes? Why must the kindergarten room walls be painted "peach blossom"? Why is learning to read before the age of 8 or 9 considered unhealthy? Why do so many Waldorf classes have problems with bullying, and what is the school's policy for dealing with this? Why are teachers always lighting candles?

What answers I received were not forthright, and the teachers made it clear that my questions were not welcome. They told me, "If you understood Anthroposophy, you wouldn't be asking that question." Yet before we enrolled, I was told that the school was non-sectarian and that Anthroposophy was not "in the classroom!" I was eventually invited to leave.

Thanks to PLANS' dedicated researchers, I now have answers to all of my questions, and many more that I had not even thought of asking! If the information on the PLANS Web site had been available 9 years ago, our family would have passed by Waldorf's door, knowing that its sectarian, occultist nature was not what we were looking for after all.

http://www.waldorfcritics.org/

[NikolaiI]

I am very familiar with Christian monasteries and have stayed in many. I have never found there the sense of superiority to a common world which I sensed at the Camphill place.

Dear Jon,

This is good that you felt and realized this, understood it. . .




"Jewry as such has outlived itself for a long time. It does not have the right to exist in the modern life of nations. That it has survived, nevertheless, is a mistake by world history, of which the consequences were bound to come." [Toos Jeurissen, trans de Tollenaere]





After my researches over the last 2 days and this morning, it is become very apparent that Camphill Village and Waldorf Schools are appendages of a secretive, and very cult-like group, created and led by the late Rudolf Steiner.


I dislike very much putting up quotes of this monster, but I have confidence in everyone, in all of you, to understand what's really going on.



Please give this article an extremely careful, and thoughtful read, if you do not understand yet.

http://www.waldorfcritics.org/articles/NJP_RudolfSteinerAndJews.html


There is absolutely no excuse in the world for willful ignorance of the magnitude of anyone who continues to believe this is at all innocent.

[Jackson Richardson]

a secretive, and very cult-like group, created and led by the late Rudolf Steiner.


.

He has been dead since 1925! I'm no fan of his movement, but that sounds like the sort of conspiracy theory used by anti-semites themselves against the Jews.

Thank you for that quote though.

[Dreamwoven]

I haven't been to one.

There are none in or near Chicago.

[NikolaiI]

And yet his insanity lives on.


Dream - Jonathan -

Everything affects everything. If you want to be esoteric, be esoteric..

But words have a great deal of power.


When you practice hate-speech, you are enabling things like the Holocaust to occur. If you can find any fault in this reasoning, I would beg you to speak it.


If you cannot understand this, I would urge you to keep trying until you can.


I know you're not a fan of his movement, Jon - that's good. But in some cases, just not being a fan is not enough.

[Clopin]

Oh good God Nikolai, please shut up.

Edit: Or at least cite that quote.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Steiner#Judaism

[NikolaiI]

The link to the quote of post #8 is in post #8.

http://www.waldorfcritics.org/articles/NJP_RudolfSteinerAndJews.html


You keep focusing on the Jews, but it was not only them that he thought of as non-human, but every group of humans except for the ones he thought were "supreme;" including Black people, Native people of many places, whom he called, "reds."

His philosophy believed that everything that is light and airy is good, and everything that is dark is bad. This oddity was taken to such an extreme that children are not allowed to use black crowns in their schools, and so forth.

While the issue of whether or not children should be allowed to use the crowns seems harmless - the ideology that every group except one is non-human, is inherently a harmful one - I would stipulate, both to the people who believe it, and to anyone they would treat as not being human.

I do not believe it is too complicated to understand that dehumanizing groups of people is very likely to lead to further crimes.

Nor do I believe there is any error in my reasoning, step-by-step investigation, or understanding of this issue.

I would ask you to clarify your stance, however.

I was speaking with a friend about this topic; and they pointed out, that during this period of time in Germany, these ideas of a supreme race, et al, were widely pushed, discussed, accepted, and so forth. However, my immediate and still current reply to this is very simple, just because those around you are engaged in this kind of thing, does not excuse any individual also engaged in espousing the ideas further. As I said then, actively speaking out against it, perhaps being what you should do, is best; being silent about them is perhaps often taking as silent consent, while actively repeating and furthering them is the worst thing.

And, as is evident, Steiner was a leader during this time, not just a follower.

[Clopin]

And where does Steiner say that other groups of people are non human?

[NikolaiI]

The worst, the most horrific of the quotes I saw were on the Steiner page of a Neo-Nazi website dedicated to their concept of "western destiny."


"Reds and blacks descend from abnormal humans and have not participated in the evolution of whites. . ."

I am putting the link up, here,

[edit: taking the link down now. . again, for the reason that I do not wish to direct more traffic to such a site. I am going on the assumption you saw it Clopin.]

[Jackson Richardson]

Nasty. However just because someone is taken up by violent thugs, doesn’t mean their work is to be ignored.

I had a friend who was an impassioned Marxist and socialist. He loved Wagner’s operas and was very interested in Nietzche’s philosophy, anti-semites both.

Steiner’s ideas are unhelpful for quite other reasons. He did however believe learning disabled should be educated in the same system as ordinary children and were to be treated with respect. I was shocked when I briefly volunteered to help at a local council home for learning disabled children how they were treated – not with any cruelty but not to be taken seriously.

The Nazis, of course, would have regarded them as decadent and destroyed them.

[NikolaiI]

This is a wide-spread group dedicated to the philosophy that many groups of people are not human -

and many other facets of their philosophy are identical with Nazism - all that is light and airy is good, all that is dark is bad; taken to such an extreme that they do not allow their children to use black crowns; they believe all the other groups such as "Blacks" and "reds" and "Yellows" are subhuman.

Anything you say which makes the issue less clear or more confusing is only aiding their cause, Jonathan B.

Was this of any help in clarification of the issue?


I could say I wish it didn't exist - I could say I wish it could be ignored. . It would be far more pleasant for me, personally, to ignore it.


By the way, I would perhaps say, you are losing ground with me fast, that is, as a disinterested observer.

[Clopin]

Nietzsche was certainly not an anti semite, rather he was anti anti-semite.

Whether Steiner had some unsavory views personally is irrelevant considering whether or not these Camphill Village schools actually do some good, as Johnathan is suggesting.

Also throw a dart at a list of famous names, important thinkers etc from say, 1950 back and there's very good chance you're going to hit someone who said or believed things which are currently very much out of fashion, that doesn't mean you can ignore or denounce everything written by these people.

[Jackson Richardson]

Neo Nazis may quote Steiner, but they wouldn't last a day in a Steiner community such as I knew, with all that organic, vegetarian food and Bach's preludes and fugues played on the lyre.

I am highly critical of Steiner, I hope you've noticed, and would like to discuss some of my experiences.

[NikolaiI]

The movement is dedicated to the ideology that evolution is reflected in the colour of your skin, and that "Blacks," "reds," and "yellows" are all inferior "races," while the blond-haired, blue-eyed "Aryans" are the supreme race. This idea led to the Holocaust, and you'd better be sure that if you don't want it to happen again, you should not encourage that idea.

Anything you do to white-wash it is only helping them. There are no doubts about what this is. Or about what it leads to. Goodbye. You are insane if you think that the idea of Aryan supremacy, and the rest, is anything less than dangerous and evil.

Everything you say to obfuscate the issue is irrelevant. They quote him - you white wash him, and apologize for him - you will find no traction here. He was a leader during that time - not just a follower. If you are aware of how ideas spread, you would you know that to help these people is wrong. Adios.

[Clopin]

I don't think that the Waldorf or Camphill movements are dedicated to the idea that 'Aryan's' are the supreme race. You sound like some overly emotional idiot to me.

Speaking of the holocaust, I know of one group of people who certainly do teach their children that they are the members of a special and 'favoured' race. Oho I would love to see you have a go at all of Judaism! Wouldn't want to be a hypocrite now would you?

[Jackson Richardson]

There have been many significant and influential philosophers and thinkers in Western culture: Plato, Aristotle, Augustine of Hippo, Thomas Aquinas, Calvin, Rousseau, Marx, Freud and others. They had definite ideas how existence was and how humans and human society should behave. But even if you disagree with their conclusions (and they can’t all be right) you can relate to their concepts as we construct our own understanding.

Rudolf Steiner certainly thought he was in that league and probably thought he knew better than any of them. But he isn’t. He doesn’t provide any insights or concepts relevant in other contexts. He provides a whole package of religious ritual, architecture, music, art, gardening, education, cooking and whatever. You don’t have to be a catholic to get something from Aquinas or a socialist to get something from Marx. But you can’t get anything from Steiner unless you are an anthroposophist.

[YesNo]

Neo Nazis may quote Steiner, but they wouldn't last a day in a Steiner community such as I knew, with all that organic, vegetarian food and Bach's preludes and fugues played on the lyre.

I am highly critical of Steiner, I hope you've noticed, and would like to discuss some of my experiences.

I don't know much about Steiner. I can see how NikolaiI could view the racial interpretation of karma and reincarnation as, well, racist. I have a similar distaste for the Hindu caste interpretation of karma and reincarnation.

What were some of your experiences?

[NikolaiI]

I would stipulate that he was actually insane, so, not just harmless, but actually quite harmful. This is one of his views, couched within a heap of others, quite similar.

◊ “The French are committing the terrible brutality of moving black people to Europe, but it works, in an even worse way, back on France. It has an enormous effect on the blood and the race and contributes considerably toward French decadence. The French as a race are reverting.” [18]


When I saw such quotes as these, I was horrified, but I wasn't confused - it is the tip of the ice-berg. Jews, "Reds," "Blacks," and oriental peoples, are all lower stages of evolution in his mind, and the blond-haired, blue-eyed "race" is the supreme one. The fact that he was a leader in Germany, promoting these views on a large scale in Pre-World-War-1 Germany indicates he and his followers were part of the problem, not part of any solution.

Secondly - the descendant organizations are not divorced from him, but there on the contrary seems to be extremely strict control over many things. I know less about the Camphill Villages, but they are essential another branch of the same group. In the schools, every day there is a Steiner study session.

I am going to take a while off, because it is very painful for me to think of such things, and the convoluted insanity of the whole thing is not easy to deal with.

Best of life and peace to you all, and protection from harm. . .

[Jackson Richardson]

NicholaiI –

I can see you are very distressed about all this and I won’t post anything further here. I've made comments on my time at a Camphill community here and on the Theosophy thread if YesNo is interested.

I am very concerned indeed at the move to the right across the world, putting the blame for society’s ills on the outsider. In the UK, there is increasing support for UKIP and its implied racism so that all politicians feel obliged to commit themselves to restricting immigration. There’s the Tea Party movement in the USA and the Republican Party is getting more and more aggressive and insular.

With all these worrying trends, Anthroposophy, I would suggest, is not a big player.

[Clopin]

Blah blah, all non liberals are evul. Totally man.

Also what exactly about Ukip is racist? They don't want open border immigration and that's fine, check out Switzerland for a country that is difficult to immigrate to; is this because the Swiss government is racist? Should they repeal their immigration laws in your opinion?

[Scheherazade]

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