Incomplete Imaginations

[Lykren]

You only see the side of me
that is in love with you.
Out of doors and in closed spaces,
in empty places and under open skies,
our conversations echo the thought
and phrasing of freedom.
Though Patience loves a broken will
that’s settled in its curve.

The water curves and carves
your image, layering light
into the numb depths.
This is a better world
without questions, without explanations
miring us in the thickness
of our own hands again.




This is what happens when I try to write my feelings instead of a good poem. Well okay, I tried to do things with language here. But I also tried to remember what I was writing about as I was writing it.

[Hawkman]

Hi Lykren. For the most part I really like the flow of this. Well nothing unusual there, your poetry usually flows well. But there are things which you should take a look at. For example, the last two lines of S1.

Here you have begun a sentence with though. Though is a qualification. it can appear at the beginning, the middle or the end of a sentence, but the problem with your use of it here is that it is attached to a discrete statement. It's a qualification which doesn't qualify anything, because it's a discrete statement. If you lose the though, the sentence is fine. If you put a comma after freedom instead of a full stop, it's also fine.

My second observation echoes one I have made before. The definite article which begins S2 is unnecessary. It makes a general statement too specific. What water? Again, without the definite article, as a general statement, it's fine, but there has been no previous mention of water in any context, so "the water' is inappropriate. The only other flaw is the repetition of curve/curves, in close proximity. Personally, I feel it's overkill with the alliteration in carves. I find it jarring. Curve, curves, carves - there is a progression here, but for me, at least, it feels misplaced. You might consider replacing both with "sculpts." It feels a little softer than carves. However, I accept that the hardness of "carves" may be deliberate.

The last sentence is delightfully ambiguous. "...the thickness of our own hands..." is, in context, an abstraction that works for me.

Thanks for sharing.

Live and be well - H

[Carousel]

Critiques reflect our own views and preferences in what we read and of course they will give different opinions as no two writers would write the same poem the same way. It’s always up to the writer to accept or not any advice given.


Out of doors and in closed spaces,
in empty places and under open skies,-- the second line more or less repeats the content of the first, suggestion- nail the content more specifically in the 1st line then proceed.

Though Patience loves a broken will—why do you capitalise patience?

The water curves and carves—curves repeat the use in the last line of the previous stanza I avoid repeating words in a poem unless there is a very good reason for doing so. Water has so many descriptions to use so it’s pretty easy to correct.


This is a better world
without questions, without explanations
miring us in the thickness
of our own hands again.

This is a better world
without questions or explanations—deletes the repeated word and doesn’t alter the meaning.

I think I get what you are saying in these four lines but to be honest they seem a touch jumbled. Leave it for a day or two then come back with a fresh mind and I am sure you can sort it.



Hope this helps

Cari.

[Lykren]

Thanks to both of you for your thoughtful suggestions. Hawkman, I actually deleted the article before 'water' just after I posted this!

Other than that, most of your suggestions were things I was already aware of, but wasn't (and still am not) sure how to deal with. I will defend my usage of the word 'though', however. My thinking was that it makes it seem as if the narrator is having an afterthought. He is thinking to himself, and he remembers something that makes him reconsider what he just stated, hence the slightly disordered nature of it. Anyways, that was my intent, but it may not be the best way to go about doing it. In any case I'll reconsider it. Thanks again.

[NikolaiI]

I would recommend a rather different style to learning poetry... I do have reasons, which I think are valid. The idea I have is that you write, a lot... Don't be too concerned with the individual poems... Sure, think critically about them. But keep moving on, and keep writing. It's the process of writing, and reading your poetry, that gives this method of learning its effectiveness. Every time you write you learn... you gain in understanding of poetry as a whole, and you gain a familiarity and understanding of the words, phrases, sounds, rhythms of the poems you've written in particular. It's like you're flexing your muscle.

I have spent a good portion of my life learning how to learn, and I have developed an almost insanely uncanny knack for finding beauty, finding wonderful books, poems, poets, writers, thinkers...

Anyway to learn a skill you wan to look at it fro every angle that you can, and learn what works best for you, how you best learn. But it's best to experiment with every angle that you can to learn that - read aloud, written, sung..


There are mysteries, there are secrets, there is hidden beauty in life, and poetry is the art of bringing it out, and sharing it with the world. Anytime I even start writing about it, I fee an urge not to continue, to send it to a friend in private instead, or simply save it onto my computer. I write pages and pages and pages of stuff, and the majority I never share with other people..

Be selective about what you let into your heart; but not what you post on a forum for strangers. Learn to be like the geniuses of old. . . but to do any learning like this, it requires most all of your attention to be directed inward. Jung touches on this, as do other psychologists, he said, "He who looks outside, dreams, he who looks inside, awakes."

I only heard a couple weeks ago, and only understood about a week ago, Goethe saying, "After all, the greatest art is to limit and isolate oneself." It took a few days or a week to really understand, but it's clearer than ever as of now.

To become a truly wonderful poet it will take years, but the work will be worth it. . . the best way again, I know how, is to write hundreds and thousands of poems. . . truly that's the way to flex the muscle and to enter into it. . . Also read poetry, my very short list would be Swinburne, Housman, Shelley, Goethe, Blake, Dickinson, Whitman, and if you really wish to experience something transcendental, don't neglect Milarepa the Tibetan saint-poet, and.. Dogen, and all the extraordinary, extraordinary, extraordinary wealth of Buddhist Japanese and Chinese poetry (and others... these are only my personaly favorites.) Inscription on Trust in the Mind is simply beautiful, by Seng Ts'an ... there are many other good ones, I may have missed many; these are just some of the most beautiful, and sometimes spiritual poets.. Rumi and Hafiz are two incredible poets from antiquity...

The point is you keep your mind clear, and free, and unfettered, and open. "In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few."

If you write 2 or 3 pages, or poems, a day, or as much as you can; as much as you want, as much you feel like; and read and explore and find the absolute best poets to study and enjoy, and learn from, then in several years, you will be an outstanding poet - providing you are an outstanding person. :)

There's infinite beauty in life, and if you live a beautiful life, and interesting life, then you'll have many experiences so much worth sharing, and I hope you do. I myself believe everything is connected, and poetry is one of the best forms of communication, can be one of the most beautiful.

My point is, you will learn everything you need to, everything you choose to, on your own. You will develop as a poet in your own way, on your own path.

I am trying to find a way to explain why this method of learning, of learning from these people, who have comments about this word or that, or this line or that one; grates against the grain of my being and goes against everything I hold to be true. . . and all I have learned from people such as Emerson, Goethe, Whitman, not to speak of Schopenhauer, Alan Watts, Abraham Maslow, Jung, and not the extremely vast, beautiful ocean of Eastern contribution to poetry... among the most beautiful. If you could somehow get Jung, or Goethe, or Watts, to sign on here, and give you advice about your poems, that would perhaps be different.

You will learn all your errors and your skill, and it'll all be you. I mean, learning from others is great, it's important; but I honestly think you'd be served well by this... Let yourself develop all by yourself,

Here is a thought from Schopenhauer. It shocked me a bit when I saw it, because I love reading, and books, but it makes complete sense to me now. The fact that it shocked me to see it even, is telling to me now.


“Reading is merely a surrogate for thinking for yourself; it means letting someone else direct your thoughts. Many books, moreover, serve merely to show how many ways there are of being wrong, and how far astray you yourself would go if you followed their guidance. You should read only when your own thoughts dry up, which will of course happen frequently enough even to the best heads; but to banish your own thoughts so as to take up a book is a sin against the holy ghost; it is like deserting untrammeled nature to look at a herbarium or engravings of landscapes.”


http://www.quietspaces.com/poemHanh.html (a poem by Hanh)

http://www.quietspaces.com/dharmawriting.html

here are some possibly useful resources' links.

http://users.snowcrest.net/ksnow/poetrylinks.htm


I just would say... this is like, it seems like almost an odd idea, I mean, you have to go to places as obscure as Schopenhauer and Goethe to find it. Though I got into my hands my first Goethe book, it was Maxims and Reflections, I believe, I haven't understood this until now. It seems to be indeed one of the most important and rare lessons in life, even more important - but also easier to implement, and reaps more benefit - in today's high-tech world.

I mean study nature, experience. . I wish I could convey this better; but it's just... poetry is about describing something transcendental, 'the art of saying what can't be said.' You're trying to express the transcendental, and so it seems equally important to experience the transcendental; it's all about the quality of consciousness you have... and that's changing every day but it's... it's so unlimited and people think it's so limited. So how can you learn poetry from them? If instead you hang with da Vinci, and any other exceedingly brilliant genius you can find, you'll have so much reward :-)


Thank you for writing; your poetry is good, and always enjoyable to read.

Robert Frost, "If it is a wild tune, it is a poem."
And: "We enjoy the straight crookedness of a good walking stick."