Psychedelics

[Lykren]

How does LitNet feel about psychedelic drugs? Do you hate them? Love them? Have you tried them? Are you willing to? Do you think they're dangerous? Your thoughts please.

I tried psilocybin mushrooms a few days ago with a friend. I thought the experience was very interesting and worthwhile. All sorts of emotions came up in ways that I had not expected. There were no hallucinations, although lights did seem a little bit brighter and more colorful. At a certain point, after I had filtered through many emotions in conversation with my friend, I began to feel like the world was a new place again, the way it was when I was a child. It was amazing to feel like I was deeply intertwined with the world again. Most of the time I go around feeling distant and far apart, as though neither I nor the universe are fully real. The feeling didn't last entirely of course, but it left me with interesting memories. I am eager to try again, with a higher dose this time.

One of my friends told me that he wished I would not take them, and that he thinks they are dangerous. I think this comes from a misunderstanding of psychedelics, from the feeling that anything that powerfully changes your consciousness by chemical means must be a negative. That seems a little sad to me.

But anyways, I am eager to find out what your thoughts on this topic are!

[Iain Sparrow]

I am against all drugs (outside of medical uses and benefits) that can cause hallucinations, including Cannabis.

I used cocaine, some meth in my younger days and usually only at, or while partying. When the drugs and lifestyle caught up with me, and felt I was losing myself to them... I quit the drugs, quit the people around me who were doing drugs, and have had no desire to ever relive the experience.

The first time out you happened to have a good experience with psilocybin mushrooms. Simple as that, you had a "good trip"... the next ten times you do 'shrooms you might be so lucky. But like the fool who plays Russian Roulette once too many times, I can assure you that your luck will run out, and you will have a very uncomfortable experience.
The human brain and nervous system are at odds, resilient and fragile, so if you endeavor to stretch reality by such means as you seem intent on doing, don't be surprised when things end badly.

Sorry, but drugs are not the route to feeling more connected to people, the world, or reality.

[Lykren]

That may be, but it also may not be. Our mileages may vary, no?

[Calidore]

A couple of years ago, I posted in another thread my experience with someone who had taken a hallucinogen of some kind, which I'm reposting below since it fits the topic. IMO, anything that puts up a barrier between you and reality is bad, because you have no control over your perceptions and can easily harm yourself or others. From what I've seen, even people who truly do try to use drugs responsibly will sooner or later show that they're not as otherwise normal and free of negative effects as they claim.

As a young kid I had a friend I'll call Jeff, who lived just down the street. We lost touch for a bit, then reconnected in our mid-teens when we went to the same high school. We had lots of good times then--endless days of video gaming on his Intellivision and Atari 400 computer (which, I don't care what all the Commodore fanboys said, beat the pants off the 64 and Vic-20 as a gaming system), going to movies, and running around the neighborhood doing irresponsible teenage boy mischief.

The one downside Jeff had, as far as I was concerned, was that he was a pot and LSD user. He didn't show any ill effects--he had friends, got decent grades (better than mine, frankly), etc., but I had always been taught that Drugs Are Bad, and that was it. Jeff always wanted me to try them out myself, but I wasn't interested. This was mostly due to 1) not being completely comfortable around him when he was high (pot), due to his personality not being quite him anymore; and 2) outright fear (LSD), despite his assurances that it was fine and awesome and everything. I actually came closest to trying LSD just out of curiosity, but never did.

Which brings us to one summer evening when we were seventeen or eighteen, which would be 1983 or 1984. Jeff and I went with three of his other friends to the now-long-gone Varsity Theatre in Evanston to see a double bill of A Clockwork Orange and Mad Max. I had already seen Clockwork Orange on video at Jeff's house--it was one of his all-time favorite movies--and had no interest in seeing it again, but I'd heard a lot about Mad Max and was really looking forward to that. So Clockwork Orange came and went (with me not liking it any better the second time), and Mad Max came on. As anyone who has seen it knows, it opens with an amazing high-energy chase, and after that I was completely stoked for the rest of the film. That was about the point where Jeff, who had gotten up from his seat a bit earlier, came up behind me and said, "We have to go. Now." I'm thinking, "What?! This is great!", but I got up to follow him to the lobby. There I saw one of the guys we came with standing in the middle of the floor, silently shadowboxing nothing, with a ring of observers around him that he couldn't see.

I wish I had the skills to communicate how unreal this was. This is a guy I was probably conversing normally with not long before, who had essentially become imprisoned in his mind. He wasn't physically impaired in the least, but his perception of the outside world was now minimal at best and obviously heavily compromised, and he was completely unable to communicate or be communicated with.

So his friends guided him out of the theater (I was keeping away from him as best I could), at which point he ran out into the street and, a short distance away, went down into a football stance facing us, and charged--all still in complete silence, which just added to the unreality for me. We got out of the way, and he went past us, turned around, crouched, and charged again. This went on for a little while. Luckily for him, this was well after ten at night, and Evanston is a suburb that closes early, so even downtown the street was completely deserted.

Finally he seemed to peel a couple of layers of mental blankets away, to where he stopped resisting his friends' attempts to corrall him and get him into the car. He even managed to grunt once in response to something someone said. He was still mostly gone, though; while driving home, he kept opening the door and trying to step out of the car--at 40 mph. Driver slams on brakes, friend by him pulls him back in, repeat several times.

I was the first one dropped off, so I don't know anything that happened after that, and I never saw any of them again. I asked Jeff the next day what the guy had been seeing, but Jeff said something to the effect that it would be bad manners to ask something like that. I believe that was also the end of Jeff trying to convince me that I should try drugs myself.

A few years later, two things happened involving Jeff that further cemented my growing skepticism about whether people really can be drug users but otherwise perfectly normal. I don't remember now the order in which they happened, but one was his mother coming to my house asking if I'd seen or heard from Jeff, as he'd run away (this would be in our early twenties). The other was when Jeff called me from a hospital psych ward claiming he'd had a heart attack and asking if I'd come and visit him (which I did). That was the last time I saw or heard from him for about twenty years.

Then several years ago he called out of the blue, having gotten my phone number off the internet. He said he was living with his mother in California and going to college there. We couldn't talk long, because he said he was about to go to church, but I was really happy to hear that he was okay. But between him and numerous other observations of people I've known and seen, my opinion's pretty firm that regardless of what people tell themselves and others, and try to show others, in the long term drugs only damage you.

[Lykren]

I suppose that would be a persuasive example, but since I take seriously my philosophy that the everyday reality I experience is neither objective nor somehow any more 'definitive' than any other possibility, it isn't. But if someone is very attached to this reality, then by all means they would do best to avoid psychedelics (I didn't hallucinate by the way, though that is a possibility on mushrooms, just not as much as on acid).

I do object to your statement that in the long term drugs can only damage you. I have been taking drugs daily for a couple years now in the form of antidepressants, and they alter my mind as surely as alcohol, marijuana, or psilocybin. Of course I take them in very low doses so that the effect is cumulative rather than sudden, but one time I did take a very large dose in an attempt to kill myself. Before I passed out, I felt very high. My point here is that the difference is quantitative rather than qualitative, and as such the experience of ingesting a psychoactive drug cannot be merely passed off as 'good' or 'bad', but should be tailored to the individual, whether that means no drugs whatsoever, or caffeine every morning and alcohol every Saturday evening, and so on.

[Calidore]

I suppose that would be a persuasive example, but since I take seriously my philosophy that the everyday reality I experience is neither objective nor somehow any more 'definitive' than any other possibility, it isn't. But if someone is very attached to this reality, then by all means they would do best to avoid psychedelics (I didn't hallucinate by the way, though that is a possibility on mushrooms, just not as much as on acid).

I do object to your statement that in the long term drugs can only damage you. I have been taking drugs daily for a couple years now in the form of antidepressants, and they alter my mind as surely as alcohol, marijuana, or psilocybin. Of course I take them in very low doses so that the effect is cumulative rather than sudden, but one time I did take a very large dose in an attempt to kill myself. Before I passed out, I felt very high. My point here is that the difference is quantitative rather than qualitative, and as such the experience of ingesting a psychoactive drug cannot be merely passed off as 'good' or 'bad', but should be tailored to the individual, whether that means no drugs whatsoever, or caffeine every morning and alcohol every Saturday evening, and so on.

I should clarify that I was referring to recreational drugs, not medically prescribed medications.

Your first paragraph confuses me. Jeff's friend's inability to perceive this objective reality over the one he was locked in with would not have prevented him from being hit by an objective car while he was running in the objective street.

[Lykren]

I should clarify that I was referring to recreational drugs, not medically prescribed medications.

You missed my point here. My point was that the fact that a drug was given to me with a prescription does not alter the fact that it affects my perception of reality. Furthermore, there is little study of the long-term effects of antidepressants. But I take them anyways because I desire the effect they have on my mind.

What I am trying to say is that certification by the medical community does not guarantee a drug's safety, nor does a lack of certification guarantee that it poses a threat to one's health.


Your first paragraph confuses me. Jeff's friend's inability to perceive this objective reality over the one he was locked in with would not have prevented him from being hit by an objective car while he was running in the objective street.

The simple solution to situations like Jeff's friend's is to take psychedelics in a controlled environment where a sober person will take care of you.

I mentioned my distaste for the concept of one reality's truth over all others because it seems to me that one thing that frightened you about what you saw was that Jeff's friend had 'disappeared' into a place that seemed 'unreal' to you. What I would like to do is question the usefulness of applying the word 'unreal' to any given situation or experience.

[Lykren]

I'll add that this description


This is a guy I was probably conversing normally with not long before, who had essentially become imprisoned in his mind.

bothers me. In what way is our essential self not imprisoned in our minds at any given moment?

[Calidore]

You missed my point here. My point was that the fact that a drug was given to me with a prescription does not alter the fact that it affects my perception of reality. Furthermore, there is little study of the long-term effects of antidepressants. But I take them anyways because I desire the effect they have on my mind.

Sure, but the difference is that the intent of prescription psych meds (ideally) is to bring afflicted people closer to reality, as opposed to recreational drugs' (including alcohol) purpose of removing reality. Long-term effects are difficult to gauge until a drug has been around long-term. It comes down to trying to solve the immediate problem and crossing your fingers for the future.


What I am trying to say is that certification by the medical community does not guarantee a drug's safety, nor does a lack of certification guarantee that it poses a threat to one's health.

No, we've unfortunately seen plenty of examples of that. Brain healing, especially, is very tricky, because the brain doesn't understand itself too well. Like all sciences, though, that one is getting better all the time.

At any rate, the vast amount of R & D, testing, and second-guessing that goes into commercial drugs' manufacture does tilt the scales much farther to the safety side.


The simple solution to situations like Jeff's friend's is to take psychedelics in a controlled environment where a sober person will take care of you.

My understanding was that's how they usually did it. This may have been the first time Jeff's friend (or any of them) had taken whatever it was in a public setting. Hopefully it was the last.


I mentioned my distaste for the concept of one reality's truth over all others because it seems to me that one thing that frightened you about what you saw was that Jeff's friend had 'disappeared' into a place that seemed 'unreal' to you. What I would like to do is question the usefulness of applying the word 'unreal' to any given situation or experience.

It's not about the place he disappeared to, but the fact that his mind and body were no longer in the same space, as it were. He had become completely unresponsive, unreachable, and unpredictable. I had never seen anything like that before, so it felt unreal.


I'll add that this description bothers me. In what way is our essential self not imprisoned in our minds at any given moment?

Well, we're all at the mercy of our brain's interpretations of our sensory input. Ideally, though, our senses are an open door to the world, whereas in this case, the drug had slammed those doors shut and locked them from the outside; hence, imprisoned.

[Clopin]

I'm a fan honestly, mushrooms especially really cause you to think in different ways about yourself, your life, the world etc. At the risk of sounding like some hippie, it's a very deep and expansive experience and I actually recommend that everyone take them.

Oh, but not too frequently, mushrooms are very hard on the body. LSD is safer but still, you don't want to be doing it very often either. I take psychedelics anywhere from zero to two times a year.

[Clopin]

I am against all drugs (outside of medical uses and benefits) that can cause hallucinations, including Cannabis.

I used cocaine, some meth in my younger days and usually only at, or while partying. When the drugs and lifestyle caught up with me, and felt I was losing myself to them... I quit the drugs, quit the people around me who were doing drugs, and have had no desire to ever relive the experience.

The first time out you happened to have a good experience with psilocybin mushrooms. Simple as that, you had a "good trip"... the next ten times you do 'shrooms you might be so lucky. But like the fool who plays Russian Roulette once too many times, I can assure you that your luck will run out, and you will have a very uncomfortable experience.
The human brain and nervous system are at odds, resilient and fragile, so if you endeavor to stretch reality by such means as you seem intent on doing, don't be surprised when things end badly.

Sorry, but drugs are not the route to feeling more connected to people, the world, or reality.

I don't know that I really believe in 'bad trips' when it comes to responsible drug use. All of the people I know who claim to have bad trips are morons who probably took some stupid dose like half an ounce of mushrooms and subjected themselves to a bunch of ****ed stimuli. The closest I've come to a bad trip was once when I felt depressed for an hour or so near the end of a mushroom trip, whatever, I'll take it. Come downs can be unpleasant of course but hey sometimes I get a tummy ache after eating pizza, I still like it. Actually though haha, this specific scene caused a friend of mine some trauma during a mushroom trip, while another friend and his girlfriend pulled their mattress onto the ceiling to stargaze; so really mileage will vary. https://m.youtube.com/results?q=neverending%20story%20swamp%20of%20sadne ss%20&sm=1

Also I think it's silly that the stigma is nearly entirely based on a very arbitrary set of drug laws. You can zombiefie or addle kids with ritalin or adderal, you can alter someones entire personality through prescribed antidepressents and you can drink til you black out with nobody batting an eye, but God forbid you take marijuana, mushrooms, ecstacy, heroin, cocaine or crystal meth. What is the difference?

Also I think marijuanna has some health benefits, not that i think it's some godsent panacea miracle cure all but I do think it can be an effective antidepresent at least.

[Ecurb]

For those who are interested, here's an article in this week's New Yorker about new research on psychedelics:

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/09/trip-treatment

[Clopin]

Good article but uh...


Lisa was against the idea. “I didn’t want there to be an easy way out,” she recently told me. “I wanted him to fight.”

His new lease on life should begin with a divorce.

[Lokasenna]

Never used them. Not interested in using them, either. My brain is my most valuable possession, and I won't subject it to anything that alters it. Nor do I approve of anyone using drugs in my presence, and will stop them - I remember all too well getting into fights during my undergraduate days with other students who wanted to smoke cannabis (or do worse) in the communal areas.

I have this cousin, a few years older than me. I used to be very fond of her when we were children - she was bright, loving, sparky, and had one heck of an imagination. Then she went to university, and experimented - mostly cannabis, but also LSD and ecstasy and probably other things. Whatever it was, it triggered serious psychosis and she now suffers from intense paranoid schizophrenia. She is permanently institutionalised in a psychiatric unit for her own safety, and that of others, and isn't allowed real cutlery for fear of what she might do with it.

I find that very sad. Very sad indeed. She's a ruin of what she used to be, and while I'm sure there were plenty of other factors (environmental - her mother is awful and would have been hell to grow up under, genetic - mental illness runs through that side of the family), it was nevertheless drugs that set it all off.

Drugs are one of the few things I find it very hard to have a calm and reasoned debate about. It's one of my rare soap-box issues.

[Clopin]

Alright but where is the line drawn? Legal prescription drugs are often addictive and dangerous. Alcohol is a widely used drug, sold legally and certainly not without risks involved in its consumption. I appreciate your concern that LSD and other serious mind altering substances can work as a catalyst, exacerbating latent mental health issues or causing pre-existing traumas or hang ups to surface in very violent and unpleasant ways. But why is marijuanna lumped in with LSD as a 'dangerous psychoactive'? Because it is illegal (in some countries)? Or beause you actually draw a distiction, based on a set of reasonable criteria, which categorizes marijuanna as somehow worse than other widely used drugs like alcohol or potentially harmful prescriptives?

Many drugs have a significant medical application as well so I think it's wrong, for example, to suggest that morphine shouldn't be distributed to patients who will benefit from it because some people have life ruining heroin addicions. Yes drugs ruin lives (so will nearly everything though when taken to excess; sun, hamburgers and soda can all easily ruin a persons life), yes they can be extremely dangerous and yes you need to be careful. However I am certain psychedelics can be shown to effectively treat depression when used correctly and safely. Psilocybin mushrooms are dangerous, morphine is dangerous, both have their place.

[Lykren]

Never used them. Not interested in using them, either. My brain is my most valuable possession, and I won't subject it to anything that alters it. Nor do I approve of anyone using drugs in my presence, and will stop them - I remember all too well getting into fights during my undergraduate days with other students who wanted to smoke cannabis (or do worse) in the communal areas.

I have this cousin, a few years older than me. I used to be very fond of her when we were children - she was bright, loving, sparky, and had one heck of an imagination. Then she went to university, and experimented - mostly cannabis, but also LSD and ecstasy and probably other things. Whatever it was, it triggered serious psychosis and she now suffers from intense paranoid schizophrenia. She is permanently institutionalised in a psychiatric unit for her own safety, and that of others, and isn't allowed real cutlery for fear of what she might do with it.

I find that very sad. Very sad indeed. She's a ruin of what she used to be, and while I'm sure there were plenty of other factors (environmental - her mother is awful and would have been hell to grow up under, genetic - mental illness runs through that side of the family), it was nevertheless drugs that set it all off.

Drugs are one of the few things I find it very hard to have a calm and reasoned debate about. It's one of my rare soap-box issues.

You don't and can't know that her drug use triggered her schizophrenia, particularly if there was precedent in her family for that kind of mental illness.

In addition, the line between what 'alters the brain' and what doesn't is utterly arbitrary - ultimately everything you experience alters your brain.

Nevertheless I appreciate the tragedy of what happened to your cousin. But I think that explaining it away by saying that psychoactive drugs are to blame is not a responsible, logical, or useful way of dealing with the problem. As Clopin points out many drugs have powerful benefits when used in certain ways.

[Clopin]

I've know people who defintely fall under the umbrella of the term 'acid casualty'. The harmful effects of prolonged and consistent, heavy drug use are easily observable and real enough; no use denying that or suggesting otherwise. I am, however, a huge proponent of very occasional, responsible drug use, but the nasty side to drugs can't be ignored anymore than it should be overstated.

Something else to mention is that people put themselves at risk of harm in the pursuit of pleasure, excitement, adrenaline, etc all the time without taking any kinds of drugs. Why is the risk involved with drug use given special status as an 'evil' while the very real risks involved in whitewater rafting, rock climbing or heli-skiing are glossed over as just part of a vibrant and positive lifestyle choice?

[Hawkman]

Well, I suppose one might argue that the adrenaline junkie, if he kills or injures himself, does not directly threaten the well being of others, unless of course you count the inconvenience of rescuing them or recovering their bodies, which may often be hazardous to those who regularly have to do this. However, a drug-fuelled flight of paranoia might result in an individual actively attacking another person and possibly killing them. Then one also has to take into account the criminal activities of addicts who finance their habits by robbing and sometimes killing other people whilst doing so. The "lifestyle choice" may therefore be regarded as foolhardy, whereas anything which distorts a person's personality might be deemed "evil".

It is interesting to note that Jordan K. Ngubane, in An African Explains Apartheid tells us that in amaZulu culture, witchcraft is considered the most heinous of crimes because it is regarded as an assault on the spirit, the essence of a person, whereas murder only kills the body. The spirit is free to join the ancestors and be generally beneficial. It is the distortion of the spirit, the alteration of personality, which I think can be equated with the effects of drug use. Shamanistic practice, however, often involves the use of some mind-altering substance in order to enter the spirit world and commune with the ancestors. But the shaman who is damaged by such practices might be regarded as a witch... Certainly, those who actively work against the wellbeing of others are regarded as such, but then again, they tend to do so when asked and paid by someone with a grudge!

I mentioned in a short story, "A tale of Two Lions", that Jung indulged in some experimental drug use and ended up needing a lot of therapy from another psychiatrist to sort him out. I suppose it worked... ;)

[Clopin]

I would count search and rescue as a pretty significant cost and inconvenience. People put themselves at risk, especially in avalanche zones, to rescue someone who voluntarily placed themselves in harms way.

I've also never heard of a mushroom addict, so we again have to differentiate between drugs here. The only distinction I ever see being made concerning drug use is illegal = bad and legal = totally fine, and that simply is not good enough. So meth addicts are often criminals, what about users of LSD, marijuanna or mushroms?

[NikolaiI]

The public perception of these substances is way off, partly because of a hundred year ad-campaign by the government, which is lessened today that it was previously.

The truth is that these three medicines - primarily psylocbic mushrooms, LSD and peyote or mescaline, and DMT.. just as being the most mellow and most healing of the different medicines.

The way that one does these things matters a lot - if they're used just to experience pleasure, that's one thing, but if they're used to experience a blissful state of living spirituality - that is, if they're understood as a holy sacrament, meant to allow us to experience a blissful and peaceful state of being, that is very sacred and rare, and wonderful to us, to be able to know it.

In other words, Marijuana and the others, are all medicines for the mind - and can be used to that purpose amazingly well .. they're part of the growth of the individual.

Read Farther Reaches of Human Nature for a discussion of peak experiences to understand a good theoretical framework for the experience, if interested.

All 5 sections of The Joyous Cosmology are exceptional, valuable information about the topic. Rather a must-read if you will, and there's not all that much more needed to know.

Terrence McKenna is also a good figure for information about it as well; he made the basic points that we are living in a type of ****-culture, where people are learning their culture from dumbed down TV programs, and ads, and other things like this, and he stresses that we give up power when we give it to an icon or a media source; it's better to avoid all contact with those things and just create new culture. . . over the past month or so I really began to understand that concpet. . . Society, without an influx of new ideas from people working in developing new culture - or, art - becomes a decaying husk. . whereas societies which encourage artistic brilliance to flourish, these become hubs for renessainces.

Alduos Huxley, writing in The Doors of Perception, described a mescaline trip in a very scientific, but still completely engaged in it, setting. . Watts builds on his work and definitely seems more knowledgable and more useful descriptions, as they're fairly clear and accurate even as they go into the depths of an expanded consciosness event.



Anyway- the public perception is way off. . I once had a psychology professor, nearly red faced and almost shouting at us, sputtering that LSD was one of the most addictive drugs in the world - or even rather, the most addictive drug. No one had said anything to set him off or anger him, - he was just talking about it.

How completely absurd! I didn't engage him - but how completely untrue. I had researched it already and discovered that used in a laboratory, specifically set up environment for therapy and healing, the studies into the effects of this drug were remarkable and astounding.

When used to treat alcoholism, it was found to be 90% effective, even with just one experience.

Others consistently described it as being "equivalent to about 7 years of pscyhotherapy"

and this is exactly what my own experience was - fortunately, having read and studied only reputable sources. . . being able to discern when other sources were full of it.

John C. Lilly is another rather fascinating and brilliant person - apparently he, Alan Watts, Richard Alpert, and Timothy Leary had all met each other and discussed and worked out various points in understanding the theory and experience of it.

Of those, Alan experimented with a few times and set it aside: "When you get the message, hang up the phone," he decided.

Richard Alpert went to India, became initiated as Ram Dass, and faithfully lived the renounced life of a wandering sannyasi ever since.

Timothy Leary is the one who sort of went over-board, at least, he always kept doing the drug - still, a lot of his quotes are worth seeing, and Ram Dass for example spoke extremely fondly of him, as he was before the end. . . I couldn't hope to paraphrase well from memory, but basically, "experiencing very lofty reasons," - that's putting something which was probably expressed very beautifully into rather poor language! ;p

But anyway -

John Lilly is the one who gave us a lot of stuff about dolphins, created a few facilities etc. - also wrote Metaprogramming, which I haven't read but seems very interesting, and

also such gems as, "You don't have to suffer continual chaos in order to grow."

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/Ginsberg-leary-lilly.jpg/220px-Ginsberg-leary-lilly.jpg
(Ginsberg, Leary, and Lilly)

and "In the province of the mind, what one believes to be true is true or becomes true, within certain limits to be found experientially and experimentally. These limits are further beliefs to be transcended."

[NikolaiI]

A few quotes..
Hope you don't mind. I almost just deleted it here and say it's not worth the bother, but after all I have spent about an hour collecting a few quotes, so I might as well hit post.


“Nature loves courage. You make the commitment and nature will respond to that commitment by removing impossible obstacles. Dream the impossible dream and the world will not grind you under, it will lift you up. This is the trick. This is what all these teachers and philosophers who really counted, who really touched the alchemical gold, this is what they understood. This is the shamanic dance in the waterfall. This is how magic is done. By hurling yourself into the abyss and discovering it's a feather bed.”

“You have to take seriously the notion that understanding the universe is your responsibility, because the only understanding of the universe that will be useful to you is your own understanding.”

“If you don't have a plan, you become part of somebody else's plan.”

“Nobody is smarter than you are. And what if they are? What good is their understanding doing you?” (cf. Schopepnhauer)

“Nature is not our enemy, to be raped and conquered. Nature is ourselves, to be cherished and explored.”

“We can begin the restructuring of thought by declaring legitimate what we have denied for so long. Lets us declare Nature to be legitimate. The notion of illegal plants is obnoxious and ridiculous in the first place.”

“It's clearly a crisis of two things: of consciousness and conditioning. We have the technological power, the engineering skills to save our planet, to cure disease, to feed the hungry, to end war; But we lack the intellectual vision, the ability to change our minds. We must decondition ourselves from 10,000 years of bad behavior. And, it's not easy.”

-Terence McKenna


"T0 BEGIN WITH, this world has a different kind of time. It is the time of biological rhythm, not of the clock and all that goes with the clock. There is no hurry. Our sense of time is notoriously subjective and thus dependent upon the quality of our attention, whether of interest or boredom, and upon the alignment of our behavior in terms of routines, goals, and deadlines. Here the present is self-sufficient, but it is not a static present. It is a dancing present—the unfolding of a pattern which has no specific destination in the future but is simply its own point. It leaves and arrives simultaneously, and the seed is as much the goal as the flower. There is therefore time to perceive every detail of the movement with infinitely greater richness of articulation. Normally we do not so much look at things as overlook them. The eye sees types and classes—flower, leaf, rock, bird, fire—mental pictures of things rather than things, rough outlines filled with flat color, always a little dusty and dim.

"But here the depth of light and structure in a bursting bud go on forever. There is time to see them, time for the whole intricacy of veins and capillaries to develop in consciousness, time to see down and down into the shape of greenness, which is not green at all, but a whole spectrum generalizing itself as green—purple, gold, the sunlit turquoise of the ocean, the intense luminescence of the emerald. I cannot decide where shape ends and color begins. The bud has opened and the fresh leaves fan out and curve back with a gesture which is unmistakably communicative but does not say anything except, "Thus!" And somehow that is quite satisfactory, even startlingly clear. The meaning is transparent in the same way that the color and the texture are transparent, with light which does not seem to fall upon surfaces from above but to be right inside the structure and color. Which is of course where it is, for light is an inseparable trinity of sun, object, and eye, and the chemistry of the leaf is its color, its light."

The Joyous Cosmology (http://www.psychedelic-library.org/JCBODY.HTM), by Alan Watts

"When you get the message, hang up the phone."

Preface (http://www.psychedelic-library.org/JCPREFCE.HTM) to the above mentioned work.


"A person who thinks all the time has nothing to think about except thoughts. So he loses touch with reality, and lives in a world of illusion."

"The prevalent sensation of oneself as a separate ego enclosed in a bag of skin is a hallucination which accords neither with Western science nor with the experimental philosophy-religions of the East…"


“We could say that meditation doesn't have a reason or doesn't have a purpose. In this respect it's unlike almost all other things we do except perhaps making music and dancing. When we make music we don't do it in order to reach a certain point, such as the end of the composition. If that were the purpose of music then obviously the fastest players would be the best. Also, when we are dancing we are not aiming to arrive at a particular place on the floor as in a journey. When we dance, the journey itself is the point, as when we play music the playing itself is the point. And exactly the same thing is true in meditation. Meditation is the discovery that the point of life is always arrived at in the immediate moment.”


“What I am really saying is that you don’t need to do anything, because if you see yourself in the correct way, you are all as much extraordinary phenomenon of nature as trees, clouds, the patterns in running water, the flickering of fire, the arrangement of the stars, and the form of a galaxy. You are all just like that, and there is nothing wrong with you at all.”

“So you see, if you become aware of the fact that you are all of your own body, and that the
beating of your heart is not just something that happens to you, but something you're doing,
then you become aware also in the same moment and at the same time that you're not only
beating your heart, but that you are shining the sun. Why? Because the process of your
bodily existence and its rhythms is a process, an energy system which is continuous with the
shining of the sun, just like the East River, here, is a continuous energy system, and all the
waves in it are activities of the whole East River, and that's continuous with the Atlantic
Ocean, and that's all one energy system and finally the Atlantic ocean gets around to being
the Pacific Ocean and the Indian Ocean, etc., and so all the waters of the Earth are a
continuous energy system. It isn't just that the East River is part of it. You can't draw any
line and say 'Look, this is where the East River ends and the rest of it begins,' as if you can
in the parts of an automobile, where you can say 'This is definitely part of the generator,here, and over here is a spark plug.' There's not that kind of isolation between the elements
of nature.”

“when somebody plays music, you listen. you just follow those sounds, and eventually you understand the music. the point can't be explained in words because music is not words, but after listening for a while, you understand the point of it, and that point is the music itself. in exactly the same way, you can
listen to all experiences.”


“The startling truth is that our best efforts for civil rights, international
peace, population control, conservation of natural resources, and
assistance to the starving of the earth—urgent as they are—will destroy
rather than help if made in the present spirit. For, as things stand, we
have nothing to give. If our own riches and our own way of life are not
enjoyed here, they will not be enjoyed anywhere else. Certainly they
will supply the immediate jolt of energy and hope that methedrine, and
similar drugs, give in extreme fatigue. But peace can be made only by
those who are peaceful, and love can be shown only by those who love.
No work of love will flourish out of guilt, fear, or hollowness of heart,
just as no valid plans for the future can be made by those who have no
capacity for living now.”


“For there is no joy in continuity, in the perpetual. We desire it only because the present is empty. A person who is trying to eat money is always hungry. When someone says, "Time to stop now!" he is in a panic because he has had nothing to eat yet, and wants more and more time to go on eating money, ever hopeful of satisfaction around the corner. We do not really want continuity, but rather a present experience of total happiness. The thought of wanting such an experience to go on and on is a result of being self-conscious in the experience, and thus incompletely aware of it. So long as there is the feeling of an "I" having this experience, the moment is not all. Eternal life is realized when the last trace of difference between "I" and "now" has vanished - when there is just this "now" and nothing else.
By contrast, hell or "everlasting damnation" is not the everlastingness of time going on forever, but of the unbroken circle, the continuity and frustration of going round and round in pursuit of something which can never be attained. Hell is the fatuity, the everlasting impossibility, of self-love, self-consciousness, and seld-possession. It is trying to see one´s own eyes, hear one´s own ears, and kiss one´s own lips.”


“The effects of what are now called psychedelic (mind–manifesting) chemicals differ from those of alcohol as laughter differs from rage or delight from depression. There is really no analogy between being “high” on LSD and “drunk” on bourbon. True, no one in either state should drive a car, but neither should one drive while reading a book, playing a violin, or making love. Certain creative activities and states of mind demand a concentration and devotion which are simply incompatible with piloting a death–dealing engine along a highway.”

“Let's suppose that you were able every night to dream any dream that you wanted to dream. And that you could, for example, have the power within one night to dream 75 years of time. Or any length of time you wanted to have. And you would, naturally as you began on this adventure of dreams, you would fufill all your wishes. You would have every kind of pleasure you could conceive. And after several nights of 75 years of total pleasure each, you would say "Well, that was pretty great." But now let's have a surprise. Let's have a dream which isn't under control. Where something is gonna happen to me that I don't know what it's going to be. And you would dig that and come out of that and say "Wow, that was a close shave, wasn't it?" And then you would get more and more adventurous, and you would make further and further out gambles as to what you would dream. And finally, you would dream ... where you are now. You would dream the dream of living the life that you are actually living today.”
― Alan W. Watts


“If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on.”
-T. McKenna

“My technique is don’t believe anything. If you believe in something, you are automatically precluded from believing its opposite.”
-T. McKenna

“I think of going to the Grave without having a Psychedelic Experience is like going to the Grave without ever having Sex. It means that you never Figured out what it is all about. The Mystery is in the Body and the way the Body Works itself into Nature.”

“I think there's a very strong Calvinistic bias against a free lunch. The idea that you could achieve a spiritual insight without suffering, soul-searching, flagellation, and that sort of thing, is abhorrent to people because they believe that the vision of these higher dimensions should be vouchsafed to the good, and probably to them only after death. It is alarming to people to think that they could take a substance like psilocybin or DMT and have these kinds of experiences.”
― T. McKenna, The Archaic Revival

[North Star]

Not to mention that drugs, the bad kind, destroy people's lives far more easily and are far more addictive and damaging than alcohol. Even marijuana, let alone the other usual suspects. And it is nothing short of asinine to think that a pharmacist and a dealer of illegal drugs have something in common, unless the said pharmacist also does illegal drug dealing on the side. Then he or she would be a dealer of illegal drugs, just as a classics professor who dealt illegal drugs is a dealer of illegal drugs. But the profession of a pharmacist is as far from that of the illegal drug dealer as possible. There might be police officers who are also criminals, even contract killers, but that hardly means that there is no real difference between an assassin and a random police officer. The job of a pharmacist is to help people find a medical cure to their ailments, advising how to administer said cure, and to make sure that the customer can take the drug/medication safely, or to advise them go see an MD. I haven't heard of a dealer of illegal drugs doing any of those.
I should have thought that you, Lykren, might have mentioned some more of the differences, as you have some experience of dealing with pharmacists. And the noble profession of the bartender need not be slandered either, as usually it would be much worse if alcoholics drank on the street or in their own apartments. Not that that doesn't happen, and those with severe problems with alcohol don't tend to frequent bars so much.

What do you do when your car breaks down? Take it to the garage, right? What do you do if you have a toothache? Go see a dentist, right? What about the brain; the human mind? Even science is still far from knowing precisely everything about it, but you, the John Q Recreational, know just what to do, and how that will not damage or alter permanently the brain.

"Drugs do not directly cause schizophrenia, but studies have shown drug misuse increases the risk of developing schizophrenia or a similar illness. Certain drugs, particularly cannabis, cocaine, LSD or amphetamines, may trigger symptoms of schizophrenia in people who are susceptible. Using amphetamines or cocaine can lead to psychosis and can cause a relapse in people recovering from an earlier episode. Three major studies have shown teenagers under 15 who use cannabis regularly, especially "skunk" and other more potent forms of the drug, are up to four times more likely to develop schizophrenia by the age of 26." http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Schizophrenia/Pages/Causes.aspx Also http://psychcentral.com/news/2013/07/13/cannabis-not-the-only-drug-linked-to-schizophrenia/57177.html

[Clopin]

The point isn't that illegal drug use poses no risk. Lots of things pose risk, excess consumption of (legally purchased) alcohol causes plenty of deaths every year, excess consumption of cigarettes gives people cancer, excess consumption of sugar, diabetes (actually it might not give you diabetes, but a slew of other health problems are definitively linked to obesity), and on and on (things like tanning, dieting and overheating can all kill you or damage your health).

Marijuana quite certainly does not "destroy more lives" than alcohol and it is significantly less damaging to your health than many prescription drugs which are legally bought and sold. The argument that illegal drugs are bad because they are illegal and legally sold and traded drugs are totally fine because they are sold and traded legally does not make sense to me. What makes marijuana worse than OxyContin, Vicodin, Alcohol, Nicotine, Prozac, Ritalin or Adderal, to name just a few?

By the way I never said that drugs can not damage or alter your brain, in fact I said just the opposite multiple times. Reading the thread before responding helps.


I've know people who defintely fall under the umbrella of the term 'acid casualty'. The harmful effects of prolonged and consistent, heavy drug use are easily observable and real enough; no use denying that or suggesting otherwise. I am, however, a huge proponent of very occasional, responsible drug use, but the nasty side to drugs can't be ignored anymore than it should be overstated.


There ya go.

[North Star]

The point isn't that illegal drug use poses no risk. Lots of things pose risk, excess consumption of (legally purchased) alcohol causes plenty of deaths every year, excess consumption of cigarettes gives people cancer, excess consumption of sugar, diabetes (actually it might not give you diabetes, but a slew of other health problems are definitively linked to obesity), and on and on (things like tanning, dieting and overheating can all kill you or damage your health).
Excessive consumption of fat is actually more likely to cause diabetes than that of sugar. Cigarettes I despise and would like to see them made illegal. And yes, lots of things make you susceptible to many harmful things. You might get hypothermia if you didn't wear enough clothes outside in the winter.



Marijuana quite certainly does not "destroy more lives" than alcohol and it is significantly less damaging to your health than many prescription drugs which are legally bought and sold. The argument that illegal drugs are bad because they are illegal and legally sold and traded drugs are totally fine because they are sold and traded legally does not make sense to me. What makes marijuana worse than OxyContin, Vicodin, Alcohol, Nicotine, Prozac, Ritalin or Adderal, to name just a few?
Marijuana doesn't destroy more lives because the abuse of marijuana is much more rare than the abuse of alcohol.
As to prescription drugs, those are prescribed to one because one has a medical condition that must be treated with them. They are prescription drugs precisely because they can have harmful side-effects. Illegal drug dealers don't mind you using a drug even if you don't use it responsibly, and they don't limit your dosage so that you don't OD on the drug, unintentionally or not. And they might spike your drugs with rat poison or something else, or just have some lethal impurities in there.

And painkillers and psychiatric medications are a real problem still, obviously. For painkillers, there really don't seem to be any that aren't some kind of opioids. That still doesn't mean that you're good getting an opioid on the street for your toothache.

[Clopin]

Do you have any valid study which can point to marijuana being more dangerous than alcohol per capita? if alcohol is more dangerous then what happens to your argument about illegal drugs? Would you want to criminalize alcohol or decriminalize marinuana?

And you're right, drug dealers don't look out for your safety, that is something you need to take care of for yourself. Putting people in jail for pursuing avenues of pleasure (and therapy, or general happiness, there is evidence to support illegal drugs facilitating all three quite well) because they could be dangerous is not reasonable. It also strikes me as slightly naive to believe that everyone, or even a large majority, of people who are taking prescriptive drugs actually have conditions which require serious dosages of medication (over say, exercise), and that these people are all 'using' responsibly.

Anyway I don't even disagree with you, my stance is that drugs are dangerous and addictive and that I use them and enjoy them and I have seen benefits from taking them. Your stance is that drugs, specifically and arbitrarily limited to illegal (in some countries) drugs, are dangerous and addictive and should not be taken or used at all.

I don't think the government has the right, by the way, to imprison people against their will for ingesting ANYTHING (except for very short periods of time to protect the safety of others, if need be), whether it be alcohol, crystal meth, LSD, gasoline, adhesives, psychedelic toads, etc. There is just no justification for it at all in my view.

[North Star]

Anyway I don't even disagree with you, my stance is that drugs are dangerous and addictive and that I use them and enjoy them and I have seen benefits from taking them. Your stance is that drugs, specifically and arbitrarily limited to illegal (in some countries) drugs, are dangerous and addictive and should not be taken or used at all.
I certainly did not write that only illegal drugs are dangerous and addictive. In fact, I pointed out that many legal drugs are as dangerous and addictive.
I am not sure whether imprisonment for drug use is wise, apart from it scaring some away from drugs, and to help them get rid of them.

Alright, I'll find a study for you.
"Cannabis smoke can be a major risk factor for early-age laryngeal cancer-a molecular signaling-based approach."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25736926

[Clopin]

Well with smoking anything there is a risk for cancer obviously. Luckily cannabis can be eaten or vaporized and inhaled with no risk. That source also doesn't exactly compare alcohol to maijuana at all.

[cacian]

I'm a fan honestly, mushrooms especially really cause you to think in different ways about yourself, your life, the world etc. At the risk of sounding like some hippie, it's a very deep and expansive experience and I actually recommend that everyone take them.

Oh, but not too frequently, mushrooms are very hard on the body. LSD is safer but still, you don't want to be doing it very often either. I take psychedelics anywhere from zero to two times a year.

mushrooms? hard on the body?
i would have thought it LSD more because it is man made it is chemicals superchaged in a lab
mushrooms are natural.

[North Star]

mushrooms? hard on the body?
i would have thought it LSD more because it is man made it is chemicals superchaged in a lab
mushrooms are natural.
I'm not familiar with the specific mechanisms of these drugs, but it's foolish to think that synthetic is always more potent and dangerous than natural. Take poisons, for example. Clostridium botulinum bacteria have a pretty good recipe, and castor beans (ricin), puffer fish (tetrodo toxin), strychnine comes from trees, and loads of mushrooms contain deadly poisons.

[cacian]

I'm not familiar with the specific mechanisms of these drugs, but it's foolish to think that synthetic is always more potent and dangerous than natural. Take poisons, for example. Clostridium botulinum bacteria have a pretty good recipe, and castor beans (ricin), puffer fish (tetrodo toxin), strychnine comes from trees, and loads of mushrooms contain deadly poisons.

that is true to some extent because whilst we understand a plant because we can study it we do not know what a lab is capable of
but is it not a poison a medecine once itis filtered to become safe?
hence the potency of these plants?

[North Star]

that is true to some extent because whilst we understand a plant because we can study it we do not know what a lab is capable of
but is it not a poison a medecine once the venom is removed?
hence the potency of these plants?
Synthetic formulas of poisons/drugs/recreational drugs are created by making small changes to compounds found in nature.
Your second and third lines don't make sense to me, why don't you form a clearer question.

[Pompey Bum]

Cacian, you need to stay away from wild mushrooms unless you know exactly what you are doing. Some will kill you (in terrible pain), and even if you survive the acute attack, your liver will be so damaged that you will die of cirrhosis (in even worse pain--begging for the bullet pain) a few years later. Just go to the store, okay? :)

[cacian]

Synthetic formulas of poisons/drugs/recreational drugs are created by making small changes to compounds found in nature.
Your second and third lines don't make sense to me, why don't you form a clearer question.

hi North Star in the second paragraph i asked
the poison that is in a plant is normally medicinally if and when the harmful component is removed.
therefore these plants in effect useful and not dangerous to medecine
i am therefore asking whether they are.


Cacian, you need to stay away from wild mushrooms unless you know exactly what you are doing. Some will kill you (in terrible pain), and even if you survive the acute attack, your liver will be so damaged that you will die of cirrhosis (in even worse pain--begging for the bullet pain) a few years later. Just go to the store, okay? :)

haha wild mushroom no i would not go there :D
i know someone who goes on a picking spree nearer september october straight from the fields and keeps them in his cupboard for personal usage ;)

[Clopin]

hi North Star in the second paragraph i asked
the poison that is in a plant is normally medicinally if and when the harmful component is removed.
therefore these plants in effect useful and not dangerous to medecine
i am therefore asking whether they are.

Yes but no toxins are removed from psilocybin mushrooms before consumption.

[North Star]

hi North Star in the second paragraph i asked
the poison that is in a plant is normally medicinally if and when the harmful component is removed.
therefore these plants in effect useful and not dangerous to medecine
i am therefore asking whether they are.
By 'clearer' I meant clear, not just slightly less incongruous. ;)
The difference between a medicinal drug and a poison is dosage - most (all) medicinal drugs are poisonous in large (enough) doses.
Yes, the plants can be used to produce the chemical which can then be used to synthesize the medicinal drug. That's often done only when developing the compound in research labs. When the med. drug comes to market, it might not be synthesized from that plant anymore, but from another compounds.

[cacian]

By 'clearer' I meant clear, not just slightly less incongruous. ;)
LOL i just realised i missed out/messed up words in my last response
apologies :)


The difference between a medicinal drug and a poison is dosage - most (all) medicinal drugs are poisonous in large (enough) doses.
does the poison contained in a medicinal drug come from a plant or is it manufactured?.


Yes, the plants can be used to produce the chemical which can then be used to synthesize the medicinal drug. That's often done only when developing the compound in research labs. When the med. drug comes to market, it might not be synthesized from that plant anymore, but from another compounds.
taht sounds interesting and i have no knowledge of this
by compounds do you mean chemicals?
some plants i am guessing are made to grow so that they can produce poison right?
using generic methods genes and so on.

[cacian]

Yes but no toxins are removed from psilocybin mushrooms before consumption.

yes that is true it seems science is not interested in them

[Clopin]

Please be in London...

[cacian]

Please be in London...

be in London??

[North Star]

does the poison contained in a medicinal drug come from a plant or is it manufactured?.
The 'poison' is the drug, as I wrote before. All drugs are poisonous in large enough quantities, as I wrote before. The chemical compound in a drug that is not filling or coating or whatever, but the actual drug, is a compound that is derived from, chemical compounds found in nature - in human bodies, bacteria, plants, mushrooms, animals, algae, fungi, etc. As I wrote before. After the formula is known, it can be either synthesized in a laboratory or extracted from nature. As I wrote before.


taht sounds interesting and i have no knowledge of this
by compounds do you mean chemicals?
some plants i am guessing are made to grow so that they can produce poison right?
using generic methods genes and so on.
Yes, chemical compounds.
Well it's not that easy to modify the genome of a plant so that it would start to produce poison. Algae and bacteria are used to produce chemicals, but poisons aren't exactly the highest priority, and they're really far too complex compounds for man to code them into producing.



yes that is true it seems science is not interested in them
Psilocybin is most certainly of pharmaceutical interest, for OCD, anxiety, depression, addictions, cluster headache.

[cacian]

North Star if plant naturally produce poison is one saying it is not possible to find out how that is?
the reason i ask is that there are plants who do not produce poison
one could compare one to the other ?
could one speculate that because the amount radioactive compounds being disturbed or used for science purposes the earth soil is producing poisonous gas which in turns is producing poisonous plants?
just a question.

[North Star]

North Star if plant naturally produce poison is one saying it is not possible to find out how that is?
the reason i ask is that there are plants who do not produce poison
one could compare one to the other ?
could one speculate that because the amount radioactive compounds being disturbed or used for science purposes the earth soil is producing poisonous gas which in turns is producing poisonous plants?
just a question.
Of course it is possible to study how a plant produces poison. It's just not necessarily a very simple process. And every plant takes up minerals etc from the soil, carbon dioxide water and sunlight, and produces all of it's structure by making new chemicals, of which all living things are made of.

And no, most, maybe all, of the plants that do create poison, create their poison just as they create chlorophyll or roots and branches. Radioactivity certainly has nothing to do with poisons found in nature. And neither does man's exploitation of radioactivity. Additionally, the radiation from a properly operating nuclear plants is much smaller than the radiation released in nature.

[LogJam]

haha wild mushroom no i would not go there :D
i know someone who goes on a picking spree nearer september october straight from the fields and keeps them in his cupboard for personal usage ;)

Where are these alleged fields?

[cacian]

Where are these alleged fields?

north wales.
haha :D

[WolfLarsen]

Drugs are great!

Everybody should use them!

I've only been to Holland about half a dozen times. Not enough frankly.

One of the best experiences I've ever had in my life was climbing a mountain in Alaska while on LSD. Sounds dangerous. But we chose a mountain that there was no way you could die or get seriously injured.

I'm on drugs at the present moment. I'm drinking a very strong cup of coffee. I love coffee! I'm addicted to coffee! That makes me a drug addict I guess.

While I've had all kinds of drugs the ones that scared me the most where the drugs that the hospital gave me for certain medical procedures. Those drugs scared the **** out of me!

My advice: stay away from hard drugs! Use only soft drugs. Stay away from anything related to heroin, meth, and be very careful with cocaine.

Be careful with alcohol that you don't abuse it. Alcohol is a drug too.

[WolfLarsen]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot, watch out for painkillers!

If you have an injury or whatever get off of them as soon as you can.

[WolfLarsen]

The closest I've ever come to hallucinatory experiences was either the drugs from the hospital or being exposed to chemicals that I did not want to be exposed to. In effect, these experiences were involuntary, and mostly unpleasant.

The drugs given to me during one medical procedure left me feeling so deliriously happy afterwards that the potential for addiction scared me.

On the other hand I think cannabis is wonderful!

I knew somebody who used to smoke way too much weed. He smoked after work and on his days off. One day they initiated drug testing on his job. He switched to alcohol. He went from cannabis abuse to alcohol abuse. The alcohol abuse had a far worse effect on my former friend than the cannabis abuse.

I was sitting in a coffee shop in Amsterdam Holland one winter when I came up with the idea of writing a run-on sentence to the beat of Afro-Brazilian drums.

Three years I wrote that work while living in Harlem, New York City. It's called The Exclamation Point! It's 65,000 words long. The original draft was nearly 300,000 words long. I had a lot of fun writing that! And it was thanks to eating & smoking cannabis in a coffee shop in Amsterdam that I wrote a run-on sentence of over 65,000 words.

What I like about cannabis is that it causes you to think, unlike alcohol. Of course, cannabis abuse might in the long run cause you to think less, but abusing any drug is a bad idea.

You can bet that throughout the entire existence of man we humans have been using drugs. People knew back in pre-history that eating certain roots & plants & mushrooms created certain psychological effects. Man has enjoyed drugs ever since there has been man.

Some people abuse drugs. It just depends on the person. Lots of people enjoy themselves with alcohol and don't become alcoholics.

I think softer drugs are fine for most people. I think they help get the creative juices flowing. But I think hard drugs are something to stay away from. Currently in the states, prescription drug abuse has surpassed illegal drug abuse.

I think softer drugs may help one be more creative. However, there is no substitute for hard work.