the difference

[cacian]

what is the main difference between classical and neo classical in terms of literature?

in fact what is neo represents?

[Poetaster]

Classical is of the ancient world, neo-classical merely imitates it in an idealized way.

For your second question, I don't know what that means.

[mal4mac]

neo-

1.new.
"neonate"
2.a new or revived form of.
"neo-Georgian"

[cacian]

QUOTE=Poetaster;1270172]Classical is of the ancient world, neo-classical merely imitates it in an idealized way.

I understand. how does it imitate it? most importantly why?


For your second question, I don't know what that means.
sorry about this
I meant what does NEO specifically means?
are they initials to something else like an abbreviation for example?

[cacian]

neo-

1.new.
"neonate"
2.a new or revived form of.
"neo-Georgian"
neo? new??

so if it is new how is it quote next to Nazism?
as in neo Nazism?

[Poetaster]

I understand. how does it imitate it? most importantly why?

One imitates something by imitating it. There is literally no other answer to that question. They consciously try to copy the style of classical forms and poetry. Why? Because they liked it.


neo? new??

so if it is new how is it quote next to Nazism?
as in neo Nazism?

As in 'new Nazi' or 'Nazi after the fall of Hitler's Germany'.

[cacian]

One imitates something by imitating it. There is literally no other answer to that question. They consciously try to copy the style of classical forms and poetry. Why? Because they liked it.
I see but classical is limited in the sense that it belongs to a certain specific dates.
to imitate it would be to lie about its dates.
are you able to quote a classical work and a neo classical one to compare?


As in 'new Nazi' or 'Nazi after the fall of Hitler's Germany'.
after the fall of Germany I assume there is no longer Nazism
does not NEO propagate that Nazism is back with the appellation of new??

[Poetaster]

I see but classical is limited in the sense that it belongs to a certain specific dates.
to imitate it would be to lie about its dates.
are you able to quote a classical work and a neo classical one to compare?

Look at something like Horace, who is a classical writer, and his work 'Ars Poetica' and something like Alexander Pope who is a neo-classical writer. I'm not going to post an entire ancient Epic, and the entire 'Essay on Criticism' for you to compare and contrast. In essential, the mock epic of Pope is trying to copy the style of Horace. During the 'Neo-Classical age' the act of translating Homer and Virgil really took off as an art in itself, when that wasn't the case before hand.


after the fall of Germany I assume there is no longer Nazism
does not NEO propagate that Nazism is back with the appellation of new??

You'd assume wrong to the first line, or the term 'neo-nazi' wouldn't exist, would it?
The second line, yes.

[cacian]

Look at something like Horace, who is a classical writer, and his work 'Ars Poetica' and something like Alexander Pope who is a neo-classical writer. I'm not going to post an entire ancient Epic, and the entire 'Essay on Criticism' for you to compare and contrast. In essential, the mock epic of Pope is trying to copy the style of Horace. During the 'Neo-Classical age' the act of translating Homer and Virgil really took off as an art in itself, when that wasn't the case before hand.

sure. so in other words one is genuine and the other enuine from ennui.
I am merely wondering why one would copy
and translate?
I personally could not classify art as copy cat. in fact surrogacy comes to mind. motherhood swapped for other hood. terrible.
I mean Pope is quoted alongside satire .that could not be art but more sart as in sarcasm. in other words mockery.


You'd assume wrong to the first line, or the term 'neo-nazi' wouldn't exist, would it?
The second line, yes.
well why neo when nazism is fallen?

[PeterL]

sure. so in other words one is genuine and the other enuine from ennui.
I am merely wondering why one would copy
and translate?
I personally could not classify art as copy cat. in fact surrogacy comes to mind. motherhood swapped for other hood. terrible.
I mean Pope is quoted alongside satire .that could not be art but more sart as in sarcasm. in other words mockery.

You caught it with Pope. neo-classical literature simply uses some major part of the classical. It doesn't simply ape old things. For example, Dante borrowed significant part of The Aeneid by Virgil. Both are great works, and others have taken something from one or the other and made something good from it.


well why neo when nazism is fallen?

Why not neo? As far as most sane people are concerned, Nazism was shown to be idicy, but there are some who want to try a new version of it. "Rehashed" might be a better term.

[Poetaster]

sure. so in other words one is genuine and the other enuine from ennui.
I am merely wondering why one would copy

As I said, because they liked it.


and translate?
I personally could not classify art as copy cat. in fact surrogacy comes to mind. motherhood swapped for other hood. terrible.
I mean Pope is quoted alongside satire .that could not be art but more sart as in sarcasm. in other words mockery.

Sure. That's totally the only word that applies to Alexander Pope.


well why neo when nazism is fallen?

You've literally just asked this, and it's literally just been answered.

[cacian]

As I said, because they liked it.

I am not so sure about that. if you like something normally you wish to preserve it in its original form.
consider antiques. originality is everything,
neocisim does not preserve it copies to alter because it does not get it. it wants to alter to change to others.


Sure. That's totally the only word that applies to Alexander Pope.
Ok well why mock?
stand up comedy shows a lack of intellect is a lack of recollection. reconstructs to deconstructs to lose the original work.



You've literally just asked this, and it's literally just been answered.
well as long as neo is associated with nazism then anything associated with is surely bad taste.

[Poetaster]

I am not so sure about that. if you like something normally you wish to preserve it in its original form.
consider antiques. originality is everything,
neocisim does not preserve it copies to alter because it does not get it. it wants to alter to change to others.

What about bands like Metallica and Iron Maiden, they both are metal bands? They copy certain things, but add their own take and flare.


Ok well why mock?
stand up comedy shows a lack of intellect is a lack of recollection. reconstructs to deconstructs to lose the original work.

You've not read any Alexander Pope, that much is clear enough. He didn't 'mock' in the way you are thinking.


well as long as neo is associated with nazism then anything associated with is surely bad taste.

Yeah.

[cacian]

You caught it with Pope. neo-classical literature simply uses some major part of the classical. It doesn't simply ape old things. For example, Dante borrowed significant part of The Aeneid by Virgil. Both are great works, and others have taken something from one or the other and made something good from it.
sure but it makes me think why could not they make work of their own?


Why not neo? As far as most sane people are concerned, Nazism was shown to be idicy, but there are some who want to try a new version of it. "Rehashed" might be a better term.
idicy?
do you mean idiocy?

[cacian]

What about bands like Metallica and Iron Maiden, they both are metal bands? They copy certain things, but add their own take and flare.
music is not the same.
music is sound and sound is imitable because it is ongoing.
anyone can make a sound
not everyone can write a novel.


You've not read any Alexander Pope, that much is clear enough. He didn't 'mock' in the way you are thinking.
did he not?
how did he start?


Yeah.
absolutely.

[Poetaster]

music is not the same.
music is sound and sound is imitable because it is ongoing.
anyone can make a sound
not everyone can write a novel.

If I clap my hands it is making a sound, it isn't ongoing. If I play a few chords on my guitar, that music stops as soon as I stop playing. You stop writing a poem when it is finished. Music is the same as poetry in that it's a form of expression. A ballad is a different genre of poetry to a stanza in the same way heavy metal is different to jazz. So what?


did he not?
how did he start?

Read him yourself and find out. I'm not going to be the Virgil to your Dante.

[PeterL]

sure but it makes me think why could not they make work of their own?

They did. Pope and Dryden wrote their own poetry, didn't they? Who would mistake "The Rape of the Lock"? They just had classical poets as their models.


[/QUOTE]idicy?
do you mean idiocy?[/QUOTE]

Yes

[JBI]

Racine would be a better example, or Canova for sculpture. But anyway, Neo-Classicism is about reusing the ancient form, given a belief that the ancients have put things down that are "eternal" and "universal". So, for instance, England traditionally models itself on the Roman Empire as a sort of cultural mythology. You can see that in various paintings of royals etc. But if you look at the United States, there is a strong use of Neo-Classical "Roman Republicanism" behind the cultural mythology. That any of them were particularly good models is not the point. The idealized form filters out all the negative, and copies merely the parts that the current public want to see, while adding new things.

The same way Neo-Nazis now often shave their heads and tattoo Swastikas on themselves. There is no Third Reich president for such looks (except for SS members having concealed tattoos) but now we regard such a thing as a specific identifier.

As for why Europeans were so obsessed with the classical world, you should see China. Even to this day they are remaking Confucius-era movies. Though, as this proved, the mythology of the greatness of the nation does not really translate well with the people. In point and case, they recently made a nostalgic movie about Lei Feng, the maoist hero, which was pulled after playing 3 straight days with 0 tickets sold.

That being said, the notions of good taste in specific circles, namely 18th century France and England, were dominated by a sense of class that dictated the ancient precedents are better, Some of it comes from the Renaissance, but other parts of it come from two other things: one, in a world of vulgar culture, how does one prove yourself, 2, in a world of class change and instability, how does one assert your class's sense of taste. The problem was even bigger in France, hence why Racine was the literary model for the French language, where the kings quite literally decided they wanted to make the French language more tasteful (and control it as they control it today). In England of course, not many people were able to read, much less afford books. So naturally, Pope was selling to the crowds who adored themselves exactly what they thought made them special - a special heritage for a special, noble, class if you will. With the gentry thrown in who had new ideas of themselves as privileged to the same classical heritage.

[mal4mac]

nazism
a form of socialism featuring racism and expansionism and obedience to a strong leader
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=nazism

It's not Hitler's pet ideology, unfortunately it's still around.

"Neo-Nazism is a general term for the related fascist, nationalist, white supremacist, antisemitic beliefs and political tendencies of the numerous groups that emerged after World War II seeking to restore the Nazi order or to establish a new order based on doctrines similar to those underlying Nazi Germany."
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/neonazism.html

[Eiseabhal]

Neo- has the meaning of "arising from", " following on from", "akin to", "almost a copy of ..." It's use as a prefix seems to suggest that the root word to which it is attached is its intellectual, stylistic, philosophic father.