Why was Adam exempt from the transgression when the transgression was disobedience?

[Gnostic Bishop]

In ready the biblical script for this myth, I was stuck with how men always seem to fare better than women.
Perhaps you will agree if you answer a few questions or comment on this thread.

----------------------------------

Why was Adam exempt from the transgression when the transgression was disobedience?

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)

I think that Adam, not being deceived, was more culpable than Eve.

Why then did God favor the guiltiest, Adam, with, --- he shall rule over you?

Men rule over women? Why when men were not deceived but disobeyed?

What was the transgression, --- if not a wise decision to choose knowledge and wisdom and shun immortality of the flesh, --- even if that were possible, --- and why was Adan not punished as hard as Eve when he was clearly more guilty?

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

Disobedience is not a transgression. Eve put up her middle finger to the sky and shouted: "**** YOU GOD!" And thus was born free will and free thought.

Women are better than men.

[AuntShecky]

Disobedience is not a transgression. Eve put up her middle finger to the sky and shouted: "**** YOU GOD!" And thus was born free will and free thought.


I would guess that free will and free thought came with the initial package, not as "add ons" purchased separately. It's like buying the Hess toy truck at Christmas: the batteries are already included.


Women are better than men.

Sort of a blanket statement, wouldn't you say? Better: Some women are better than some men, and vice versa.

[HCabret]

I would guess that free will and free thought came with the initial package, not as "add ons" purchased separately. It's like buying the Hess toy truck at Christmas: the batteries are already included.so then it wasn't an act of disobedience at all. God intended people to figure things out on their own, without constant intervention from the creator.




Sort of a blanket statement, wouldn't you say? Better: Some women are better than some men, and vice versa.i was being rhetorical. The poster of the OP has a history of making mysoginistic comments.

[mona amon]

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)

"More shame to Adam to sin with his eyes open!" comments Shirley Keeldar in Charlotte Bronte's Shirley. If this creation of a 19th century country parson's daughter could dismiss it so lightly, why do you, a modern person, take it all so seriously and literally?

[Gnostic Bishop]

Disobedience is not a transgression. Eve put up her middle finger to the sky and shouted: "**** YOU GOD!" And thus was born free will and free thought.

Women are better than men.

Not to Christianity and Islam.

I would not say better but would say that men should place them above themselves as a part of their duty to the family.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

I would guess that free will and free thought came with the initial package, not as "add ons" purchased separately. .

The package included commandments and threats.

I would argue that commandments and threats annul free will as they are compulsions and constraints against using free will.

Will you speak to the O.P.?

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

i was being rhetorical. The poster of the OP has a history of making mysoginistic comments.

You are a liar. Get the quote to prove that you are not a liar.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

"More shame to Adam to sin with his eyes open!" comments Shirley Keeldar in Charlotte Bronte's Shirley. If this creation of a 19th century country parson's daughter could dismiss it so lightly, why do you, a modern person, take it all so seriously and literally?

Because justice and equality demands that I try to show literalists how foolish their thinking is.

For the evils of religion to grow, read any scripture literally.

Any and all harmless beliefs are allowed by Gnostic Christians. We know that any myth can be internalized for good results and as esoteric ecumenists, we enjoy knowledge of all the myths that man has created about Gods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D

When there is a victim is when that view changes. Then you see why Christianity annihilated Gnostic Christianity. We do not let the evils of forced literalism go unopposed. To a tyrant like Constantine, we were poison. One of his first commands to his new Church was to kill off the free thinkers and of course, his new tool, his Church, did as bid. It was quite a ride for free thought for the next 1,000 years.

For the evils of religion to grow.

How can a Gnostic Christian, --- and any other free thinking moral person, --- not judge other's morals when seeing someone hurt other because of the same Church's teachings today?

Can you ignore such things if you have decent morals? Impossible. Especially with Islam pulling the same murderous, freedom stifling ****.

We must discriminate and judge constantly. Every law is a compulsion on all of us to judge.

It is my view that all right wing literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists, --- as well as those who do not believe. Literalists hurt their parent religions --- and everyone else, be he a believer or not. Literalists and the right wing of religions make us all into laughing stocks. Their God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution has got to go. So must beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic. These are all evil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HKHa...x=0&playnext=1

They also do much harm to their own fellow adherents.

African witches and Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9...eature=related

Jesus Camp 1of 3
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=48b_1185215493

Death to Gays.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMw2Z...eature=related

For evil to grow my friend, all good people need do is nothing. Fight literalism when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DL

[cacian]

In ready the biblical script for this myth, I was stuck with how men always seem to fare better than women.
Perhaps you will agree if you answer a few questions or comment on this thread.

----------------------------------

Why was Adam exempt from the transgression when the transgression was disobedience?

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)

I think that Adam, not being deceived, was more culpable than Eve.

Why then did God favor the guiltiest, Adam, with, --- he shall rule over you?

Men rule over women? Why when men were not deceived but disobeyed?

What was the transgression, --- if not a wise decision to choose knowledge and wisdom and shun immortality of the flesh, --- even if that were possible, --- and why was Adan not punished as hard as Eve when he was clearly more guilty?

Regards
DL

Adam the guiltiest??
what makes you think that?
who instigated who first?

[cacian]

Disobedience is not a transgression. Eve put up her middle finger to the sky and shouted: "**** YOU GOD!" And thus was born free will and free thought.

Women are better than men.
Nonsense.
NO they are not.
men are better then women. they are better behaved.
women are most of the time disrespectful and more aggressive then their opposite counterpart.

[HCabret]

Nonsense.
NO they are not.
men are better then women. they are better behaved.
women are most of the time disrespectful and more aggressive then their opposite counterpart.my point exactly. Misogyny lives another day. Women deserve it. #dontprovoke

[cacian]

my point exactly. Misogyny lives another day. Women deserve it. #dontprovoke

haha glad you agree :D
it is true thought they are.
I am one of them and I know I have seen them at it. too bad no manners whatsoever.
awful.
men are better anytime of the day. haha :D

[Gnostic Bishop]

Adam the guiltiest??
what makes you think that?
who instigated who first?

I gave the reason for Adam being more culpable than Eve and that quote shows God agreeing. Eve was fooled while Adam just flat out disobeyed.

To your last.
I would suggest that God instigated the whole thing by putting Satan right beside Eve and also putting that tree there in the first place.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

Nonsense.
NO they are not.
men are better then women. they are better behaved.
women are most of the time disrespectful and more aggressive then their opposite counterpart.

Really.

Why are jails at 95% men and 5% women?

Either males are more aggressive or women are just way smarter in staying out of jail.

Regards
DL

[cacian]

Really.
really.


Why are jails at 95% men and 5% women?
doing jails does not make you a bad person.
it just means the person has gone off the rails. they more bad towards themselves then others.
bad means nasty and aggressive towards another person.
disrespect is another one. you do not go to jail for that,
from my own experience women show much more lack of respect and are more aggressive then men.



Either males are more aggressive or women are just way smarter in staying out of jail.

Regards
DL
just because you stole or drove without a licence and send to jail it does not make you a bad person.
women are not smarter they are manipulative aggressive and tend to get away with it more.
there are as many women as men who hit men and are abusive to them.
they just get away with it because do not complain about it.

[HCabret]

haha glad you agree :D
it is true thought they are.
I am one of them and I know I have seen them at it. too bad no manners whatsoever.
awful.
men are better anytime of the day. haha :D#cacianisrayrice #epiphany #womendeservetobebeat

[HCabret]

You are a liar. Get the quote to prove that you are not a liar.

Regards
DL

I am a crude man. Bite me *****. I spend most of my time defending your rights because too many of you are too ****ing stupid to use your natural networking skills to gain your freedom from oppression at the hands of your men.

You may not like me using the sex and leg imagery but if you gals would keep your God damned knees together in unison for once in your miserable lives you would gain your freedom in less than a weak. You do not even have what it takes to do your own duty to your own daughters.

What are you waiting for to remember your duty?

Regards
DL

Regards.

[HCabret]

Not to Christianity and Islam.

I would not say better but would say that men should place them above themselves as a part of their duty to the family.

Regards
DLid say I value the individualist ideal of freedom over the collectivist ideal of family. But that's just me.
I have no duty to anyone but me.

[PeterL]

Disobedience is not a transgression. Eve put up her middle finger to the sky and shouted: "**** YOU GOD!" And thus was born free will and free thought.

Women are better than men.

Yes, that is what I have come to know also.

[HCabret]

really.


doing jails does not make you a bad person.
it just means the person has gone off the rails. they more bad towards themselves then others.
bad means nasty and aggressive towards another person.
disrespect is another one. you do not go to jail for that,
from my own experience women show much more lack of respect and are more aggressive then men.



just because you stole or drove without a licence and send to jail it does not make you a bad person.
women are not smarter they are manipulative aggressive and tend to get away with it more.
there are as many women as men who hit men and are abusive to them.
they just get away with it because do not complain about it.#blamethevictim

[PeterL]

Nonsense.
NO they are not.
men are better then women. they are better behaved.
women are most of the time disrespectful and more aggressive then their opposite counterpart.

Maybe, but women are much sexier.

[PeterL]

Neither Adam nor Eve was truly culpable, because the universe is determined. They did not have any choices.

[HCabret]

Neither Adam nor Eve was truly culpable, because the universe is determined. They did not have any choices.and who or what is doing the determining? You?

[HCabret]

Maybe, but women are much sexier.

Like.

[cacian]

Maybe, but women are much sexier.
I beg to differ. men are more sexier then women. to m e anyway.


#cacianisrayrice #epiphany #womendeservetobebeat
now that is an impressive word ahah :D


id say I value the individualist ideal of freedom over the collectivist ideal of family. But that's just me.
I have no duty to anyone but me.
agreed. but duty is two ways right?

[HCabret]

now that is an impressive word ahah :Dhuh?



agreed. but duty is two ways right?freedom is an entitlement. There are no responsibilities associated with it what so ever.

[Gnostic Bishop]

really.


doing jails does not make you a bad person.
it just means the person has gone off the rails. they more bad towards themselves then others.
bad means nasty and aggressive towards another person.
disrespect is another one. you do not go to jail for that,
from my own experience women show much more lack of respect and are more aggressive then men.



just because you stole or drove without a licence and send to jail it does not make you a bad person.
women are not smarter they are manipulative aggressive and tend to get away with it more.
there are as many women as men who hit men and are abusive to them.
they just get away with it because do not complain about it.

Opinion not based on reality.

Get the stats or start making sense.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

Regards.

I was correct in my judgement. Liar.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

Neither Adam nor Eve was truly culpable, because the universe is determined. They did not have any choices.

The universe is determined but that does not mean that we have no free will or that we cannot make choices.

Remember the uncertainty principle and the fact that we can control a small part of the universe.

If you want proof. Just raise your hand and you will see free will and choice at work while you manipulate matter within our greater universe. You actually control the uncertainty principle by moving atoms to a given position.

Regards
DL

[cacian]

Opinion not based on reality.

Get the stats or start making sense.

Regards
DL
make sense?
I made sense. you don't want to hear it.
I don't need stats to know that women are more obnoxious rude and lack respect more then men.
if you however don't see it in your everyday life then it is your own lack of noticing not mine.

[Gnostic Bishop]

make sense?
I made sense. you don't want to hear it.
I don't need stats to know that women are more obnoxious rude and lack respect more then men.
if you however don't see it in your everyday life then it is your own lack of noticing not mine.

In your case, you are bang on.

But you are not near the bully I can be.
And I am not near as bad as I was.

Regards
DL

[PeterL]

I beg to differ. men are more sexier then women. to m e anyway.



I am very happy to have the opposite opinion. ;)

[PeterL]

and who or what is doing the determining? You?

Cause and effect. Call the first cause whatever you like, but since then the laws of physics have operated, and they cause things to result from causes.

I wish that I did have that power.

[PeterL]

The universe is determined but that does not mean that we have no free will or that we cannot make choices.

False. A determined universe is determined, all of it.


Remember the uncertainty principle and the fact that we can control a small part of the universe.

If you want proof. Just raise your hand and you will see free will and choice at work while you manipulate matter within our greater universe. You actually control the uncertainty principle by moving atoms to a given position.

Regards
DL

Your attempt at an example doesn't work. You should consider exactly what "cause and effect" means.

It is possible that this time-space is not determined, if the Many World Interpretation is true, but the collection of the worlds taken together would be completely determined anyway, and it is not possible to travel from one world to another.

[Gnostic Bishop]

False. A determined universe is determined, all of it.



Your attempt at an example doesn't work. You should consider exactly what "cause and effect" means.

It is possible that this time-space is not determined, if the Many World Interpretation is true, but the collection of the worlds taken together would be completely determined anyway, and it is not possible to travel from one world to another.

My example is near perfect, but I see, to you, free will means exceeding the bounds of nature and physics.

You think freewill means you can pop into some un-proven other universe or earth. How droll.

I know exactly what cause and effect are and they are just a part of free will.

I can offer you another proof of free will. You have it. That means you can give it up. If you did not have it, you could not give it up. Right? Pure logic and irrefutable.

So to prove you have free will, give it up to my will and that will prove you have it.

I request you raise your right arm just because I request it.

Go ahead.

Now, if you did as requested, you have your proof.

Regards
DL

[PeterL]

My example is near perfect, but I see, to you, free will means exceeding the bounds of nature and physics.

You think freewill means you can pop into some un-proven other universe or earth. How droll.

I know exactly what cause and effect are and they are just a part of free will.

I can offer you another proof of free will. You have it. That means you can give it up. If you did not have it, you could not give it up. Right? Pure logic and irrefutable.

So to prove you have free will, give it up to my will and that will prove you have it.

I request you raise your right arm just because I request it.

Go ahead.

Now, if you did as requested, you have your proof.

Regards
DL

It is good to be able to hold opposing views in one's mind, but the laws of physics dictate that the universe is determined, and determination is contradictory to free will, unless you have a novel definition of free will that means that one free to do anything that has been determined, or something like that.

Don't let me change your mind. Your ideas are determined by causes that reach back far before there were even animals on Earth. And I understand that my thoughts were equally determined, because cause and effect also happen on the Quantum scale.

BTW, if I had raised my arm that would not show in any way that there is free will. It would only have shown that the effect of me raising my arm was congruent with some cause(s).

[HCabret]

Cause and effect. Call the first cause whatever you like, but since then the laws od physics have operated, and they cause things to result from causes.

I wish that I did have that power.cause and effect? Only for big things. :)

[HCabret]

I was correct in my judgement. Liar.

Regards
DL

I am a crude man. Bite me *****. I spend most of my time defending your rights because too many of you are too ****ing stupid to use your natural networking skills to gain your freedom from oppression at the hands of your men.

You may not like me using the sex and leg imagery but if you gals would keep your God damned knees together in unison for once in your miserable lives you would gain your freedom in less than a weak. You do not even have what it takes to do your own duty to your own daughters.

What are you waiting for to remember your duty?

Regards
I'll just keep posting this.

[Gnostic Bishop]

It is good to be able to hold opposing views in one's mind, but the laws of physics dictate that the universe is determined, and determination is contradictory to free will, unless you have a novel definition of free will that means that one free to do anything that has been determined, or something like that.

Don't let me change your mind. Your ideas are determined by causes that reach back far before there were even animals on Earth. And I understand that my thoughts were equally determined, because cause and effect also happen on the Quantum scale.

BTW, if I had raised my arm that would not show in any way that there is free will. It would only have shown that the effect of me raising my arm was congruent with some cause(s).

Exactly. The cause of you choosing to do so.

You see whether you do as I bid or not, the not doing or the doing are in your hands and that is free will.

You have your proof.

Regards
DL

[mona amon]

Because justice and equality demands that I try to show literalists how foolish their thinking is.

For the evils of religion to grow, read any scripture literally.

Any and all harmless beliefs are allowed by Gnostic Christians. We know that any myth can be internalized for good results and as esoteric ecumenists, we enjoy knowledge of all the myths that man has created about Gods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D

When there is a victim is when that view changes. Then you see why Christianity annihilated Gnostic Christianity. We do not let the evils of forced literalism go unopposed. To a tyrant like Constantine, we were poison. One of his first commands to his new Church was to kill off the free thinkers and of course, his new tool, his Church, did as bid. It was quite a ride for free thought for the next 1,000 years.

For the evils of religion to grow.

How can a Gnostic Christian, --- and any other free thinking moral person, --- not judge other's morals when seeing someone hurt other because of the same Church's teachings today?

Can you ignore such things if you have decent morals? Impossible. Especially with Islam pulling the same murderous, freedom stifling ****.

We must discriminate and judge constantly. Every law is a compulsion on all of us to judge.

It is my view that all right wing literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists, --- as well as those who do not believe. Literalists hurt their parent religions --- and everyone else, be he a believer or not. Literalists and the right wing of religions make us all into laughing stocks. Their God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution has got to go. So must beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic. These are all evil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HKHa...x=0&playnext=1

They also do much harm to their own fellow adherents.

African witches and Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9...eature=related

Jesus Camp 1of 3
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=48b_1185215493

Death to Gays.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMw2Z...eature=related

For evil to grow my friend, all good people need do is nothing. Fight literalism when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DL

You are preaching to the choir. I despise 'fundamentalists' and 'literalists' just as much as you do. However, in this day and age I think it's silly to be attacking those who believe in Noah's ark or blaming a roman emperor who lived 1800 years ago for all our present ills.

Religion in our modern world should be strictly for spiritual purposes. It cannot now be used to solve political, social or even moral issues. So when it comes to tackling this world's problems, nothing earlier (or less secular) than the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights for me, be it the Bible, the Laws of Manu, Gnostic Bishopism or whatever.

[Gnostic Bishop]

You are preaching to the choir. I despise 'fundamentalists' and 'literalists' just as much as you do. However, in this day and age I think it's silly to be attacking those who believe in Noah's ark or blaming a roman emperor who lived 1800 years ago for all our present ills.

Religion in our modern world should be strictly for spiritual purposes. It cannot now be used to solve political, social or even moral issues. So when it comes to tackling this world's problems, nothing earlier (or less secular) than the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights for me, be it the Bible, the Laws of Manu, Gnostic Bishopism or whatever.

We are on the same page.

The problem with the human rights code that the U. N. has would not be passed by 3/4 of it's members even in the West.

It is a governing body that let's it's members break the rules. Russia with gays is a good example and all the middle East with women is also showing how useless the U.N. really is at present in such matters. They do do good work on other fronts though.

Regards
DL

[PeterL]

cause and effect? Only for big things. :)

Cause and effect rules everything.

[Iain Sparrow]

We are on the same page.

The problem with the human rights code that the U. N. has would not be passed by 3/4 of it's members even in the West.

It is a governing body that let's it's members break the rules. Russia with gays is a good example and all the middle East with women is also showing how useless the U.N. really is at present in such matters. They do do good work on other fronts though.

Regards
DL

Would you prefer a United Nations with real teeth, power to execute laws and punish abuses?
I sure in the heck wouldn't. Our Federal Government in America is out-of-touch as it is without deeding over authority to an even less capable governing body like the U.N. To a great measure the U.N. is impotent, the whole is less than the sum of its parts.

[Iain Sparrow]

Cause and effect rules everything.

I'm reading a theoretical physics book right now that has me questioning that statement.:)

[HCabret]

I'm reading a theoretical physics book right now that has me questioning that statement.:)good man!

[Gnostic Bishop]

Would you prefer a United Nations with real teeth, power to execute laws and punish abuses?
I sure in the heck wouldn't. Our Federal Government in America is out-of-touch as it is without deeding over authority to an even less capable governing body like the U.N. To a great measure the U.N. is impotent, the whole is less than the sum of its parts.

I like the idea of a one world government and think it will eventually happen and must thanks to various countries polluting other countries as well as a way to rid ourselves of one country polluting the hell out of another as it profits from it's resources.

So yes, I like a government with teeth.

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

I like the idea of a one world government and think it will eventually happen and must thanks to various countries polluting other countries as well as a way to rid ourselves of one country polluting the hell out of another as it profits from it's resources.

So yes, I like a government with teeth.

Regards
DL
You like collectivism. I like individualism. There should be a decentralization of sovereignty, not a top heavy collection of sovereignty.

Read the last paragraph of Civil Disobedience again.

[Gnostic Bishop]

You like collectivism. I like individualism. There should be a decentralization of sovereignty, not a top heavy collection of sovereignty.

Read the last paragraph of Civil Disobedience again.

I agree with decentralization of a one world government.

There can be no such thing as individualism in the sense of true freedom.

As Socrates asked, who will make your shoes. Meaning of course that we all rely on each other.

Regards
DL

[Iain Sparrow]

I like the idea of a one world government and think it will eventually happen and must thanks to various countries polluting other countries as well as a way to rid ourselves of one country polluting the hell out of another as it profits from it's resources.

So yes, I like a government with teeth.

Regards
DL

uhm, a One World Government would lead to a kind of tyranny that would make all those that came before, seem like a tea party. The balance between the rights of the Individual, and the needs and cohesion of Society is something we still struggle with in America... but where it gets murky, I always come down on the side of individualism.

[HCabret]

I agree with decentralization of a one world government.

There can be no such thing as individualism in the sense of true freedom.

As Socrates asked, who will make your shoes. Meaning of course that we all rely on each other.

Regards
DLindividualism doesn't mean that one has to lock themselves in a dark room and avoid all external stimuli. I just want interpersonal relations to be voluntary as opposed to being mandated from some government.
People should be free to think and do for themselves as they please.

[Gnostic Bishop]

individualism doesn't mean that one has to lock themselves in a dark room and avoid all external stimuli. I just want interpersonal relations to be voluntary as opposed to being mandated from some government.
People should be free to think and do for themselves as they please.

We do that now except that when someone that is doing what they please goes against what society thinks is pleasing, the authorities are there to help protect you from others who, just like you, who just wish to be free to think and do for themselves as they please.

What do you want? Chaos or order? Law or lawlessness?

The problem with freedom as you describe it is that your first responsibility would be to insure that all others share that freedom. Most people do not trust the other free people to do what is right.

Bottom line on freedom.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg-PGhUQ78A

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

uhm, a One World Government would lead to a kind of tyranny that would make all those that came before, seem like a tea party. The balance between the rights of the Individual, and the needs and cohesion of Society is something we still struggle with in America... but where it gets murky, I always come down on the side of individualism.

As you should. What is good for the one is good for the many.

We presently live in Oligarchies. No argument regardless of what you or others might call their political systems.

Those with the money rules us all, like it or not.

You are correct that a world government would have to be a tyranny. People would demand it like they do today when someone breaks a law. We all demand that the state come down on the perpetrators. That tyranny would not change for a world government nor should it. The difference would be that any world government would have to be a Timocratic tyranny where the rules and laws are based on duty and honor and that government, because it is made up of so many is so many diverse countries that openness and transparency would be guaranteed. Something that China and other governments are trying to achieve as we speak in order to end corruption within governments.

One benefit I see in such a system is that those who elect it will be those who actually contribute to the system, net taxpayers, and not those whom the government supports, net tax taxers.

Those who do not contribute to a system should not tell it how much it should give them. It will be fun debating this particular issue.

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

We do that now except that when someone that is doing what they please goes against what society thinks is pleasing, the authorities are there to help protect you from others who, just like you, who just wish to be free to think and do for themselves as they please.

What do you want? Chaos or order? Law or lawlessness?

The problem with freedom as you describe it is that your first responsibility would be to insure that all others share that freedom. Most people do not trust the other free people to do what is right.

Bottom line on freedom.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg-PGhUQ78A

Regards
DLyou misunderstand. People should be free to think and do for Themselves as they please. The second they try to think or do for another against the wishes of that person, it becomes a violation.

This is already part of common US law.

[Gnostic Bishop]

Correct. So no change is required as the liberty, not the freedom you seek, is already at hand.

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

Correct. So no change is required as the liberty, not the freedom you seek, is already at hand.

Regards
DLexactly. That is why a one-world government not only unnecessary, but likely harmful.

[Gnostic Bishop]

exactly. That is why a one-world government not only unnecessary, but likely harmful.

In what way when they would just be administering the same common and universal law?

What harm is it to be a world citizen or a citizen of a smaller country. Bothe systems would have the same laws. More or less but still voted in by majorities.

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

In what way when they would just be administering the same common and universal law?

What harm is it to be a world citizen or a citizen of a smaller country. Bothe systems would have the same laws. More or less but still voted in by majorities.

Regards
DL
I don't like majorities at any level. The individual is the most elementary constituent of any government.

[Gnostic Bishop]

I don't like majorities at any level. The individual is the most elementary constituent of any government.

Correct and better to be a small fish in a large pond than a big fish in a small one.

That way individual can shine for the masses instead of just for the few.

Pollution has no borders and neither should the people of this earth.

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

Correct and better to be a small fish in a large pond than a big fish in a small one.

That way individual can shine for the masses instead of just for the few.

Pollution has no borders and neither should the people of this earth.

Regards
DL
Is Gnosticism the answer to global warming as we'll?

[Gnostic Bishop]

Is Gnosticism the answer to global warming as we'll?

Along with a world government, it could be. At least we begin with equality while most of the mainstream religions only give equality lip service as they continue to discriminate against women.

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

Along with a world government, it could be. At least we begin with equality while most of the mainstream religions only give equality lip service as they continue to discriminate against women.

Regards
DLequality? You've already said poor "people" wouldn't be able to participate in this one world government because they aren't rich enough. That doesn't sound like equality to me.

[Gnostic Bishop]

equality? You've already said poor "people" wouldn't be able to participate in this one world government because they aren't rich enough. That doesn't sound like equality to me.

Do you think you should be told by the one with his hand in your pocket how much he will take or should the decision be yours?

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

Do you think you should be told by the one with his hand in your pocket how much he will take or should the decision be yours?

Regards
DLi think that the government should relinquish any and all control over the economy. If I want to be poor, I should be allowed to be poor.

[Gnostic Bishop]

i think that the government should relinquish any and all control over the economy. If I want to be poor, I should be allowed to be poor.

You are. Just send me a check and you can be as poor as you like.

The government controls almost every aspect of the economy and for them to stop would bring world Chaos.

Our government are the oligarchs in the country and they rule by the control of money. They will never let it go and I do not think they should. Individuals cannot be trusted.

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

You are. Just send me a check and you can be as poor as you like.why are you more worthy of having money? I also have the right to be rich, if I so choose.


Individuals cannot be trusted.with freedom

[Gnostic Bishop]

why are you more worthy of having money? I also have the right to be rich, if I so choose.

with freedom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg-PGhUQ78A

Freedom cannot apply to a species born unable to function individually without a mothers help.

Man cannot have freedom as he lives by laws. He can have liberty though. Not everyone sees the distinction but it is definitely there.

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg-PGhUQ78A

Freedom cannot apply to a species born unable to function individually without a mothers help.

Man cannot have freedom as he lives by laws. He can have liberty though. Not everyone sees the distinction but it is definitely there.

Regards
DLwhats the difference between liberty and freedom?
And what does being a mammal have to do with it? Are you anti-freedom?

[Gnostic Bishop]

whats the difference between liberty and freedom?
And what does being a mammal have to do with it? Are you anti-freedom?

No. I do not think the word can apply to us. As Socrates said, who will make your shoes. IOW, can you make all your own requirements? Most have to say no so they cannot ever say they are free.

free·dom noun
1: the quality or state of being free: as
a : the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action

As I showed above, there is never an absence of necessities.

------------------------------

Liberty is used more to denote freedom from arbitrary or despotic control.

In law, liberty is used more as freedom is a meaningless word and freedom cannot be had by us.

Regards
DL