How can modern men believe in a creator God?

[Gnostic Bishop]

How can modern men believe in a creator God?

Believing in any good supernatural creator entity should be quite the leap in logic, yet so many Christians admit to believing in such a good and powerful creator type God, --- even though they also often think the world has more evil than good in it.

Ancient man can be said to have lived in a world where there was as much magic as reality and Gods for every occasion. Most religions had to invent a nemesis for God, be it a Satan or a demiurge to take the blame for evil. Christianity followed the pattern for myths that was well known and established and invented Satan. That strange magical/superstitious world would explain why ancient man was foolish enough to believe in fantasy characters and creator Gods.

How would you explain that less enlightened view persisting in today’s supposedly well-educated and intelligent believer?

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

Copenhagen.

God ("the creator", whatever) does not have to be "intelligent" or a white male with a beard sitting a cloud. Ever heard of Spinoza's God or Pantheism or Panetheism?

Is atheism really the only "rational" alternative to orthodox Christianity?

[108 fountains]

Here we go again!

Let the games begin!

[Gnostic Bishop]

Copenhagen.

God ("the creator", whatever) does not have to be "intelligent" or a white male with a beard sitting a cloud. Ever heard of Spinoza's God or Pantheism or Panetheism?

Is atheism really the only "rational" alternative to orthodox Christianity?

I do not think so. Being a Gnostic Christian, I think my religion is. It is about the only free thinking branch of Christianity. We will either come to the fore or we will die along with the other religions thanks to the immorality shown by the mainstream religions in terms of equality for women and gays.

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

I do not think so. Being a Gnostic Christian, I think my religion is. It is about the only free thinking branch of Christianity. We will either come to the fore or we will die along with the other religions thanks to the immorality shown by the mainstream religions in terms of equality for women and gays.

Regards
DLand what will happen if I or anyone else refuses to convert to Gnostic Christianity (IE: the one true religion)?

[free]

This question I ask many times, but no answer whatsoever. But, then, maybe they (the believers) are much cleverer than me to see something that I don't.

[HCabret]

This question I ask many times, but no answer whatsoever. But, then, maybe they (the believers) are much cleverer than me to see something that I don't.a modern human who believes in a god, the god or gods, is less or more of a person? Smarter? Stupider?

Sulimo rules the air. Ulmo protects the sea. Mahal made the earth. And the Elentari is the stars.

Free thinking is not the same thing as telling others how you believe they should think.

[Gnostic Bishop]

and what will happen if I or anyone else refuses to convert to Gnostic Christianity (IE: the one true religion)?

Why should that upset me. See you in heaven and have a good day.

What would upset me is if you say you believe in the type of fantasy God and immoral prick of a God that Christians believe in.

Even then, I do not care if you go Gnostic Christian. Just find a moral God instead of the genocidal one. If the religion you choose denies women and gays equality then shame on you. All religions are myth based so please pick a good myth if you are going to internalize one. That is all I sell my friend.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

This question I ask many times, but no answer whatsoever. But, then, maybe they (the believers) are much cleverer than me to see something that I don't.

Not damned likely friend.

Check the stats. Most theist are rather dumb about religions as compared to non-theists.

Many Christians I talk with end our chats with turn or burn.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

a modern human who believes in a god, the god or gods, is less or more of a person? Smarter? Stupider?

Sulimo rules the air. Ulmo protects the sea. Mahal made the earth. And the Elentari is the stars.

Free thinking is not the same thing as telling others how you believe they should think.

I see nothing wrong in suggestions or information. Free thinking does not mean quiet. Especially if it is a benefit in question.

I have a method that I think will lead some to enlightenment. It worked for me.
It is my moral duty to show it. Not to try to shove it down throats, --- but showing it is my duty.

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

I see nothing wrong in suggestions or information. Free thinking does not mean quiet. Especially if it is a benefit in question.

I have a method that I think will lead some to enlightenment. It worked for me.
It is my moral duty to show it. Not to try to shove it down throats, --- but showing it is my duty.

Regards
DL
There is nothing moral about evangelizing a personal belief system and it's even less moral if such beliefs are forced on someone against their will.

I have considered your advise and have chosen to blanketly reject it.

[Gnostic Bishop]

There is nothing moral about evangelizing a personal belief system and it's even less moral if such beliefs are forced on someone against their will.

I have considered your advise and have chosen to blanketly reject it.

Evangelizing is not required when logic and reason are in use.

“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”

“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

Martin Luther “

This puts the rest of us in a position where reasoning with theist becomes impossible.

It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.
Jonathan Swift

Thanks for your time.

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

Evangelizing is not required when logic and reason are in use.then what is the point of this thread? If an atheistic resolution is so obviously self-evident, then why is there a need to decry theism so fervantly?


“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”

“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

Martin Luther “

This puts the rest of us in a position where reasoning with theist becomes impossible.

It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.
Jonathan Swift

Thanks for your time.

Regards
DL"exploring the unkown requires tolerating uncertainty" Brian Greene

[AuntShecky]

Here we go again, indeed.

Logic and faith stem from two different aspects of the human mind and trying to reconcile the two is like trying to compare the proverbial apples with oranges. Some philosophers and theologians have come pretty close to establishing a detente between faith and logic (or faith and science)--notably William James and Pierre Teilhard de Chardin.

That the existence of a supreme being cannot be conclusively proven through empirical data does not necessarily disprove that God exists. It may be that the human mind (or psyche) has not yet evolved to the point that we can fully comprehend the incomprehensible. (An analogy I often cite is the existence of microbes, which civilization knew nothing until the invention of the microscope.)

A problem among some believers is their insistence upon taking Scripture literally (even though the New Testament blatantly states that Christ spoke in parables!) For good or ill, most world religions have been built upon "received" wisdom passed down from generation to generation, the tenets of which are often accepted unquestionably, often to the detriment of society. For example, the oft-heard argument that "More wars have been fought in the name of religion than for any other reason" (and so on.)

As I understand it, the Gnostic tradition arose from secret scriptures which the early Church fathers either ignored or suppressed. Gnostics had (or have) a mystical -rather than an authoritarian- foundation for faith: "The kingdom of God is within you." With a "personal God" the Faithful follow their own conscience rather than living their lives according to dicta imposed by imperious authority.

As far as acceptance of gays and women, I believe that there are some contemporary Christian religions that are more welcoming than the age-old mainstream religions. I've read that the Universal Unitarians, for instance, are tolerant about disenfranchised groups, as well as enlightened in the areas of nuclear disarmament and saving the environment.

I would say to you, Gnostic Bishop, stick to your guns (so to speak.) No one can deny you the right to state your opinion, as long as you are merely sharing information and not attempting to proselytize or condemn others for their beliefs in the "God of their choice" (as Kinky Freeman used to say.)

[HCabret]

Here we go again, indeed.that's why its called an open forum.


Logic and faith stem from two different aspects of the human mind and trying to reconcile the two is like trying to compare the proverbial apples with oranges. Some philosophers and theologians have come pretty close to establishing a detente between faith and logic (or faith and science)--notably William James and Pierre Teilhard de Chardin.truth, while objective, is very easy to change. God could simultaneously exist and not exist. Both of these states are completely valid.


That the existence of a supreme being cannot be conclusively proven through empirical data does not necessarily disprove that God exists.just because hasnt been proven or disproven doesnt mean it is impossible to do such a thing.
It may be that the human mind (or psyche) has not yet evolved to the point that we can fully comprehend the incomprehensible. (An analogy I often cite is the existence of microbes, which civilization knew nothing until the invention of the microscope.)facts, on the other hand, are subjective, despite being very hard to change. The world very much was flat, until it was discovered to be otherwise. There's no way to know whats in a box until you look inside, so until you do actually look inside, all possibilities are valid.


A problem among some believers is their insistence upon taking Scripture literally (even though the New Testament blatantly states that Christ spoke in parables!) For good or ill, most world religions have been built upon "received" wisdom passed down from generation to generation, the tenets of which are often accepted unquestionably, often to the detriment of society. For example, the oft-heard argument that "More wars have been fought in the name of religion than for any other reason" (and so on.)the bible should be taken literally. The world would be a much better place if christians listened to what their god had to say for once. Religion isn't the problem. Hypocrisy is.


As I understand it, the Gnostic tradition arose from secret scriptures which the early Church fathers either ignored or suppressed. Gnostics had (or have) a mystical -rather than an authoritarian- foundation for faith: "The kingdom of God is within you." With a "personal God" the Faithful follow their own conscience rather than living their lives according to dicta imposed by imperious authority.then why have i been told that gnosticism is the ONLY way?


As far as acceptance of gays and women, I believe that there are some contemporary Christian religions that are more welcoming than the age-old mainstream religions. I've read that the Universal Unitarians, for instance, are tolerant about disenfranchised groups, as well as enlightened in the areas of nuclear disarmament and saving the environment.unitarian doesn't equal christian. Especially the universalist variety.


I would say to you, Gnostic Bishop, stick to your guns (so to speak.) No one really has the right to argue with you, as long as you are merely sharing information and not attempting to prosletize or condemn others for their beliefs in the "God of their choice" (as Kinky Freeman used to say.)this is forum! If you don't want feedback concerning your opinions, then don't post them. Gnosticism is not above criticism. And i will continue to post whatever i want and rebut whatever positions i disagree with.

[mortalterror]

How would you explain that less enlightened view persisting in today’s supposedly well-educated and intelligent believer?

Simple, it's not as unenlightened or irrational as you believe it to be.

[Gnostic Bishop]

then what is the point of this thread? If an atheistic resolution is so obviously self-evident, then why is there a need to decry theism so fervantly?
"exploring the unkown requires tolerating uncertainty" Brian Greene

I am not an atheist. I am a Gnostic Christian.

I decry the notion that a theology should be based on human sacrifice and talking animals.

Fantasy, miracles and magic are evil to any theology. A theology is basically the rules to live life well with. We are real humans and should base our theology and philosophies on reality.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

Here we go again, indeed.

Logic and faith stem from two different aspects of the human mind and trying to reconcile the two is like trying to compare the proverbial apples with oranges. Some philosophers and theologians have come pretty close to establishing a detente between faith and logic (or faith and science)--notably William James and Pierre Teilhard de Chardin.

That the existence of a supreme being cannot be conclusively proven through empirical data does not necessarily disprove that God exists. It may be that the human mind (or psyche) has not yet evolved to the point that we can fully comprehend the incomprehensible. (An analogy I often cite is the existence of microbes, which civilization knew nothing until the invention of the microscope.)

A problem among some believers is their insistence upon taking Scripture literally (even though the New Testament blatantly states that Christ spoke in parables!) For good or ill, most world religions have been built upon "received" wisdom passed down from generation to generation, the tenets of which are often accepted unquestionably, often to the detriment of society. For example, the oft-heard argument that "More wars have been fought in the name of religion than for any other reason" (and so on.)

As I understand it, the Gnostic tradition arose from secret scriptures which the early Church fathers either ignored or suppressed. Gnostics had (or have) a mystical -rather than an authoritarian- foundation for faith: "The kingdom of God is within you." With a "personal God" the Faithful follow their own conscience rather than living their lives according to dicta imposed by imperious authority.

As far as acceptance of gays and women, I believe that there are some contemporary Christian religions that are more welcoming than the age-old mainstream religions. I've read that the Universal Unitarians, for instance, are tolerant about disenfranchised groups, as well as enlightened in the areas of nuclear disarmament and saving the environment.

I would say to you, Gnostic Bishop, stick to your guns (so to speak.) No one really has the right to argue with you, as long as you are merely sharing information and not attempting to prosletize or condemn others for their beliefs in the "God of their choice" (as Kinky Freeman used to say.)

I shall and thanks for this.

"(An analogy I often cite is the existence of microbes, which civilization knew nothing until the invention of the microscope.)"

I pulled this out to say that this is a poor analogy for God.

Microbes must sit there and await our discovery. God can make himself known any time he wants to show his genocidal son murdering face here. I have a bullet for him when he does if the Haig does not do him first.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

Simple, it's not as unenlightened or irrational as you believe it to be.

I do not agree.

Take Eden for instance. The Jews saw Eden as a place of man's elevation. They saw it as a rite of passage where the children gain and become as Gods in the knowing of good and evil. Quite a good thing that yet Christianity decided to call it a fall.

To call becoming as Gods evil and a fall is irrational.

Give an argument based on this quote to show how rational it would be to not choose to be as Gods and developing God's moral sense.

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

A & E did just as that quote demands. Why is that a fall?

To disobey a command to stay as bright as a brick is always a good idea and for God to punish A & E for going to school is insane given the reward.

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

I am not an atheist. I am a Gnostic Christian.

I decry the notion that a theology should be based on human sacrifice and talking animals.

Fantasy, miracles and magic are evil to any theology. A theology is basically the rules to live life well with. We are real humans and should base our theology and philosophies on reality.

Regards
DLarent I not allowed to believe in whatever I want? Even it is talking animals? Quantum mechanics says nothing impossible, except certainty. Be wary of any who claims to have all the answers.

[HCabret]

I do not agree.

Take Eden for instance. The Jews saw Eden as a place of man's elevation. They saw it as a rite of passage where the children gain and become as Gods in the knowing of good and evil. Quite a good thing that yet Christianity decided to call it a fall.

To call becoming as Gods evil and a fall is irrational.

Give an argument based on this quote to show how rational it would be to not choose to be as Gods and developing God's moral sense.

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

A & E did just as that quote demands. Why is that a fall?

To disobey a command to stay as bright as a brick is always a good idea and for God to punish A & E for going to school is insane given the reward.

Regards
DLtalking animals are pure fiction, so therefore the story of Eden is null and void.

[Gnostic Bishop]

arent I not allowed to believe in whatever I want? Even it is talking animals? Quantum mechanics says nothing impossible, except certainty. Be wary of any who claims to have all the answers.

I hear you but for the evils of religion to grow, read any scripture literally.

Any and all harmless beliefs are allowed by Gnostic Christians. We know that any myth can be internalized for good results and as esoteric ecumenists, we enjoy knowledge of all the myths that man has created about Gods.

When there is a victim is when that view changes. Then you see why Christianity annihilated Gnostic Christianity. We do not let the evils of forced literalism go unopposed. To a tyrant like Constantine, we were poison. One of his first commands to his new Church was to kill off the free thinkers and of course, his new tool, his Church, did as bid. It was quite a ride for free thought for the next 1,000 years.

For the evils of religion to grow.

How can a Gnostic Christian, --- and any other free thinking moral person, --- not judge other's morals when seeing someone hurt other because of the same Church's teachings today?

Can you ignore such things if you have decent morals? Impossible. Especially with Islam pulling the same murderous, freedom stifling ****.

We must discriminate and judge constantly. Every law is a compulsion on all of us to judge.

It is my view that all right wing literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists, --- as well as those who do not believe. Literalists hurt their parent religions --- and everyone else, be he a believer or not. Literalists and the right wing of religions make us all into laughing stocks. Their God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution has got to go. So must beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic. These are all evil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HKHaClUCw4&feature=PlayList&p=5123864A5243470E&index=0&playnext=1

They also do much harm to their own fellow adherents.

African witches and Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9gXriVI&feature=related

Jesus Camp 1of 3
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=48b_1185215493

Death to Gays.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMw2Zg_BVzw&feature=related

For evil to grow my friend, all good people need do is nothing. Fight literalism when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

talking animals are pure fiction, so therefore the story of Eden is null and void.

Yes and no. It is a myth, yes, but one that evil men have used forever to bludgeon women into second class citizenry. That immoral discrimination and denigration continues mostly thanks to religious men. Shame on all men who would deny our women full equality and then some. That is the duty of every man but we have forgotten it.

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

It is a myththat is opinion.


one that evil men have used forever to bludgeon women into second class citizenry.that is a matter of interpretation. Eve could also be seen as the originator of free will.


That immoral discrimination and denigration continues mostly thanks to religious men. Shame on all men who would deny our women full equality and then some. That is the duty of every man but we have forgotten it.what is your interpretation of the Adam/Eve/Eden story? How do Gnostics view the story?


Regards
DLde nada.

[HCabret]

I hear you but for the evils of religion to grow, read any scripture literally.ignorance grows when people start bending and twisting scripture to fit their own world view. If the bible was taken literally, then Christians would the mandate: "thou shalt not kill", instead of making exception to this maxims based in personal profit.


Any and all harmless beliefs are allowed by Gnostic Christians. We know that any myth can be internalized for good results and as esoteric ecumenists, we enjoy knowledge of all the myths that man has created about Gods.define "harmless".


When there is a victim is when that view changes. Then you see why Christianity annihilated Gnostic Christianity. We do not let the evils of forced literalism go unopposed. To a tyrant like Constantine, we were poison. One of his first commands to his new Church was to kill off the free thinkers and of course, his new tool, his Church, did as bid. It was quite a ride for free thought for the next 1,000 years.
i agree, but is Gnosticism the only alternative to Catholicism?


How can a Gnostic Christian, --- and any other free thinking moral person, --- not judge other's morals when seeing someone hurt other because of the same Church's teachings today?i judge other people all the time, but I am also not a Christian.


Can you ignore such things if you have decent morals? Impossible. Especially with Islam pulling the same murderous, freedom stifling ****.yeah and the Hindus and atheists and Sikhs and orthodox Christians.


We must discriminate and judge constantly. Every law is a compulsion on all of us to judge.
I agree. That is why I make my feeling known on Internet forums like this one.



It is my view that all right wing literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists, --- as well as those who do not believe. Literalists hurt their parent religions --- and everyone else, be he a believer or not. Literalists and the right wing of religions make us all into laughing stocks. Their God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution has got to go. So must beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic. These are all evil.coercion and ignorance are folly. I believe in miracles, they happen all the time. Life is a miracle. Our existence is a miracle.


For evil to grow my friend, all good people need do is nothing. Fight literalism when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DLi have no duty to anyone or anything, but my own conscious.

[AuntShecky]

this is forum! If you don't want feedback concerning your opinions, then don't post them. Gnosticism is not above criticism. And i will continue to post whatever i want and rebut whatever positions i disagree with.

I didn't make myself clear. I should have said that "No one has a right to deny you the right to state your opinion."

I tried to clarify this in my original reply.

I also corrected the embarrassing spelling error.

[HCabret]

I didn't make myself clear. I should have said that "No one has a right to deny you the right to state your opinion."

I tried to clarify this in my original reply.

I also corrected the embarrassing spelling error.haha, no problem Auntie! I am sorry if I come across as coarse, but I promise that everything I do has a reason. I have a predijuce against people who try and tell me how I should think and/or live my life. Especially people laud "individualism" and "self-expression" and then get offended when someone critiques their positions on the internet. No one should ever be banned from an Internet forum, no matter what.

[Gnostic Bishop]

that is opinion.

that is a matter of interpretation. Eve could also be seen as the originator of free will.

what is your interpretation of the Adam/Eve/Eden story? How do Gnostics view the story?

de nada.

We think it a good thing to become as Gods in the knowing of good and evil. IOW they developed a moral sense and you are correct that that was the birth of desire and the ability to choose. Free will is the correct term.

God, in this myth, says that that was the result of Adam and Eve eating of the tree of knowledge.

That is why Gnostic Christians agree with the older Jewish tradition of Eden being our elevation and not the fall that Christians foolishly see.

You say that A & E initiated free will and you are correct. To call that a fall would mean that man is better off without free will and with that I cannot agree.

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

We think it a good thing to become as Gods in the knowing of good and evil. IOW they developed a moral sense and you are correct that that was the birth of desire and the ability to choose. Free will is the correct term.

God, in this myth, says that that was the result of Adam and Eve eating of the tree of knowledge.

That is why Gnostic Christians agree with the older Jewish tradition of Eden being our elevation and not the fall that Christians foolishly see.

You say that A & E initiated free will and you are correct. To call that a fall would mean that man is better off without free will and with that I cannot agree.

Regards
DLi said that Eve originated free will. Adam was the first blind follower. Anyway it's a data tasty and should be blankly discounted.

[Gnostic Bishop]

i said that Eve originated free will. Adam was the first blind follower. Anyway it's a data tasty and should be blankly discounted.

Yes but if we do and just let the myth live as it does in Christianity, then women and gays will never have equality and to any moral man, justice would be denied them.

If we are not part of the solution, we are part of the problem.

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

Yes but if we do and just let the myth live as it does in Christianity, then women and gays will never have equality and to any moral man, justice would be denied them.

If we are not part of the solution, we are part of the problem.

Regards
DLif Christianity is the problem, then why are you a Christian? Aren't you contributing to the problem? And stop arbitraillay grouping all women and all gays together. They are individuals and don't need you to speak for either group as a whole. Speak for yourself!

[Gnostic Bishop]

if Christianity is the problem, then why are you a Christian? Aren't you contributing to the problem? And stop arbitraillay grouping all women and all gays together. They are individuals and don't need you to speak for either group as a whole. Speak for yourself!

Get thee behind me Satan.

You have no social conscience.

Change the labels in this quote to women, minorities, gays or children being brainwashed by religions and it shows what we should be thinking and doing for each other.

"First they came for the Jews, but I did nothing because I'm not a Jew. Then they came for the socialists, but I did nothing because I'm not a socialist. Then they came for the Catholics, but I did nothing because I'm not a Catholic. Finally, they came for me, but by then there was no one left to help me." – Pastor Father Niemoller (1946)”


We are done I think.

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

Get thee behind me Satan.satan is a fantastical myth. A fiction.


You have no social conscience.and so I don't. What are you going to do about it?


Change the labels in this quote to women, minorities, gays or children being brainwashed by religions and it shows what we should be thinking and doing for each other.christians are a minority. Women are not.


"First they came for the Jews, but I did nothing because I'm not a Jew. Then they came for the socialists, but I did nothing because I'm not a socialist. Then they came for the Catholics, but I did nothing because I'm not a Catholic. Finally, they came for me, but by then there was no one left to help me." – Pastor Father Niemoller (1946)” who is "they"?



We are done I think.

Regards
DLyou don't speak for me and I am not done.

[Vota]

How can modern human beings not believe in God?

The rational mind cannot comprehend the irrational. Their are modes of feeling that cannot be adequately rationalized. No serious judgment or action should be divorced from feeling, but the key is to not be entirely ruled by the passions, nor only coldly rational.

One of the strongest points that religions share in common, is an emphasis on cultivating feeling, compassion, and common sense in the way we treat others. A good argument is to say that a rational and philosophic person can be perfectly cordial and compassionate, which is very true, but religion happens to be a very effective way to instill or build upon these virtues.

I myself am not religious, but I would be lying if I said I don't find it fascinating, or that I am not touched by certain images, sayings, or thoughts, despite knowing I have been raised in a western society that is dominated by christian symbolism and references.

[Gnostic Bishop]

How can modern human beings not believe in God?

The rational mind cannot comprehend the irrational. Their are modes of feeling that cannot be adequately rationalized. No serious judgment or action should be divorced from feeling, but the key is to not be entirely ruled by the passions, nor only coldly rational.

One of the strongest points that religions share in common, is an emphasis on cultivating feeling, compassion, and common sense in the way we treat others. A good argument is to say that a rational and philosophic person can be perfectly cordial and compassionate, which is very true, but religion happens to be a very effective way to instill or build upon these virtues.

I myself am not religious, but I would be lying if I said I don't find it fascinating, or that I am not touched by certain images, sayings, or thoughts, despite knowing I have been raised in a western society that is dominated by christian symbolism and references.

Compassion. How droll. It is hard to see compassion through the hate.

For the evils of religion to grow, read any scripture literally.

Any and all harmless beliefs are allowed by Gnostic Christians. We know that any myth can be internalized for good results and as esoteric ecumenists, we enjoy knowledge of all the myths that man has created about Gods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D


When there is a victim is when that view changes. Then you see why Christianity annihilated Gnostic Christianity. We do not let the evils of forced literalism go unopposed. To a tyrant like Constantine, we were poison. One of his first commands to his new Church was to kill off the free thinkers and of course, his new tool, his Church, did as bid. It was quite a ride for free thought for the next 1,000 years.

For the evils of religion to grow.

How can a Gnostic Christian, --- and any other free thinking moral person, --- not judge other's morals when seeing someone hurt other because of the same Church's teachings today?

Can you ignore such things if you have decent morals? Impossible. Especially with Islam pulling the same murderous, freedom stifling ****.

We must discriminate and judge constantly. Every law is a compulsion on all of us to judge.

It is my view that all right wing literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists, --- as well as those who do not believe. Literalists hurt their parent religions --- and everyone else, be he a believer or not. Literalists and the right wing of religions make us all into laughing stocks. Their God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution has got to go. So must beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic. These are all evil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HKHa...x=0&playnext=1

They also do much harm to their own fellow adherents.

African witches and Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9...eature=related

Jesus Camp 1of 3
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=48b_1185215493

Death to Gays.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMw2Z...eature=related

For evil to grow my friend, all good people need do is nothing. Fight literalism when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DL

[desiresjab]

The bible is a boring and overrated book, but it has its age going for it. Even its big stories are not spectacular or interesting for the most part. Far better battles are to be found in the Illiad and many other texts. Ancient literatures abound with heros as strong as Samson, as beautiful as Bethsheba and as wise as Solomon. But what the Christians have is the best, the most exciting end of the damned world in history. That is why film and print fiction has produced such a multitude of works based on Christian eschatology.

It is known to be only part of the grand fairytale, yet is still fun to play with and speculate upon in a literary sense. Make that sensationalist literature, perhaps.

Are there any of you folks who resonably expect to be alive in the year 2060? Because that is the that year my old friend Isaac Newton calculated to be the last one for our world. Straight from the bibliocal texts, folks. One of the smartest men in history. In the months leading up to 2060 there will be a surfeit of fictional works on the prophecy, I predict. I wish I could reasonably expect to still be around.

As of the present, most have failed to recognize that a great deal of what we classify as mythology is actually prophecy. In fifty years producing a unicorn or even a centaur will probably be within reach. Even now the global elite have closed in on the ability to hear and record everything you say, much like the Christain god folks pray to supposedly hears their prayers. Before long our own global elite will be able to read our thoughts remotely. What we can do, any god could do. But I still suppose we are the only ones listening.

[Gnostic Bishop]

The bible is a boring and overrated book, but it has its age going for it. Even its big stories are not spectacular or interesting for the most part. Far better battles are to be found in the Illiad and many other texts. Ancient literatures abound with heros as strong as Samson, as beautiful as Bethsheba and as wise as Solomon. But what the Christians have is the best, the most exciting end of the damned world in history. That is why film and print fiction has produced such a multitude of works based on Christian eschatology.

It is known to be only part of the grand fairytale, yet is still fun to play with and speculate upon in a literary sense. Make that sensationalist literature, perhaps.

Are there any of you folks who resonably expect to be alive in the year 2060? Because that is the that year my old friend Isaac Newton calculated to be the last one for our world. Straight from the bibliocal texts, folks. One of the smartest men in history. In the months leading up to 2060 there will be a surfeit of fictional works on the prophecy, I predict. I wish I could reasonably expect to still be around.

As of the present, most have failed to recognize that a great deal of what we classify as mythology is actually prophecy. In fifty years producing a unicorn or even a centaur will probably be within reach. Even now the global elite have closed in on the ability to hear and record everything you say, much like the Christain god folks pray to supposedly hears their prayers. Before long our own global elite will be able to read our thoughts remotely. What we can do, any god could do. But I still suppose we are the only ones listening.

Interesting speculation.

Is the bible a moral book or does it teach good morals?

I have noted that many Christians have developed a double standard of morality where they happily forgive God for things that they condemn men for.

This clip shows this well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeOfzN8ZTAM

Speaking of telepathy and reading minds. I have done so just twice in my long life. Check this out. Just so you know, I think our magnetic shield holds a cosmic consciousness that we can access. I have no proof of this but lean heavily towards my notion being true.

http://vimeo.com/26318064

Regards
DL

[desiresjab]

Interesting speculation.

Is the bible a moral book or does it teach good morals?

DL


Not much of either. In the greatest dilemnas many faithful are instructed to "turn it over to God," freeing them from personal moral responsibility. I enjoyed that video. Most of the teachings of Jesus are good, but perhaps no better than Confucious for moral living.

[Gnostic Bishop]

Not much of either. In the greatest dilemnas many faithful are instructed to "turn it over to God," freeing them from personal moral responsibility. I enjoyed that video. Most of the teachings of Jesus are good, but perhaps no better than Confucious for moral living.

Yes. It is hard to step up to your responsibilities while putting them on a messiah and God who is supposedly dying for you.

The Jesus in question was not invented for his morals. He was invented to kill the freedom loving notions of all of Constantine's enemies. That is why he was so quick to send his new Christian army against the free thinkers.

Regards
DL

[Jackson Richardson]

Jesus of Nazareth was not invented: he was a historical figure, an itinerant rabbi probably preaching apocalyptic hope.

He was put to death in a squalid back streets execution that nobody would invent for an imperial religion

His followers believed that he had overcome death and thereby revealed something new about the nature of God: God’s acceptance of us irrespective of our moral success and keeping to rituals.

The gospels are not historic biographies, but the accounts used by the communities of Jesus’ followers who already believed that. Neither are they compendiums of moral teaching – I can’t think of any moral teaching in the Gospel of John other than to love one another.

[HCabret]

Jesus of Nazareth was not invented: he was a historical figure, an itinerant rabbi probably preaching apocalyptic hope.

He was put to death in a squalid back streets execution that nobody would invent for an imperial religion

His followers believed that he had overcome death and thereby revealed something new about the nature of God: God’s acceptance of us irrespective of our moral success and keeping to rituals.

The gospels are not historic biographies, but the accounts used by the communities of Jesus’ followers who already believed that. Neither are they compendiums of moral teaching – I can’t think of any moral teaching in the Gospel of John other than to love one another."apocalyptic hope"?

[Gnostic Bishop]

Jesus of Nazareth was not invented: he was a historical figure, an itinerant rabbi probably preaching apocalyptic hope.

He was put to death in a squalid back streets execution that nobody would invent for an imperial religion

His followers believed that he had overcome death and thereby revealed something new about the nature of God: God’s acceptance of us irrespective of our moral success and keeping to rituals.

The gospels are not historic biographies, but the accounts used by the communities of Jesus’ followers who already believed that. Neither are they compendiums of moral teaching – I can’t think of any moral teaching in the Gospel of John other than to love one another.

Christians have accepted the Roman *** kissing Jesus that Rome created. If you look at the Jewish beliefs for their messiah, you will see why Jews reject the Jesus you seem to believe in. Theirs was to live and lead. Not die and not return.

But if you want to ignore most scholarship that do not give the bible Jesus credibility then ignore the scholars.

You might wonder about the whole notion of justice if God actually demanded that Jesus die.

Is God a just judge?

This speaks of Jesus.
He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

The above quote shows this as Gods first actual judgement and shows his setting and accepting a bribe of a human sacrifice to corrupt or alter his justice and judgement.

Justice usually states that only the punishment of the guilty is acceptable to justice and that it would be unjust to punish the innocent.

God’s corruption of this usual justice is what the bribe or sacrifice of Jesus bought. Injustice.

If you elect your judges in your country, would you vote God in as a fair and just judge knowing that he can be bribed?

Is God a just judge?

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

Christians have accepted the Roman *** kissing Jesus that Rome created. If you look at the Jewish beliefs for their messiah, you will see why Jews reject the Jesus you seem to believe in. Theirs was to live and lead. Not die and not return.

But if you want to ignore most scholarship that do not give the bible Jesus credibility then ignore the scholars.

You might wonder about the whole notion of justice if God actually demanded that Jesus die.

Is God a just judge?

This speaks of Jesus.
He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

The above quote shows this as Gods first actual judgement and shows his setting and accepting a bribe of a human sacrifice to corrupt or alter his justice and judgement.

Justice usually states that only the punishment of the guilty is acceptable to justice and that it would be unjust to punish the innocent.

God’s corruption of this usual justice is what the bribe or sacrifice of Jesus bought. Injustice.

If you elect your judges in your country, would you vote God in as a fair and just judge knowing that he can be bribed?

Is God a just judge?

Regards
DLi don't believe in your god. My god is better than your god!

[Gnostic Bishop]

i don't believe in your god. My god is better than your god!

I was not speaking of the God I know but if you thought that the bible God was my God then I agree with your evaluation.

That bible genocidal son murdering God is quite easy to beat or be better than.

Regards
DL

[desiresjab]

As far as I know there is not a shred of historical evidence for the existence of Jesus. Is there a Roman record? A Jewish record? He was likely regarded as a celestial being in the beginning. As with other celestial beings, stories about him coming to earth eventually developed and evolved. The whole thing seems to be apocryphal.

Let's face it, they did not have refrigeration. In those days the world was full of ranters all claiming to have had visions from god or angels. Food poisoning was the likely source of many of those visions and prophecies the west is so attached to--bad cheese and spoilt meat.

John Smith was still having visions in the 19th century. Then he got an icebox and the visions stopped.

Seriously, between food poisoning, epilepsy and the self-hypnosis of zealotry, whych type of prophet do you prefer?

Even if he were a man, so were Confucious, Buddah and Zoroaster along with other key figures from Jasper's axial period. I do not assume they were all legends. So let Jesus be real, assume that he was.

It is well known that people on certain kinds of illegal drugs often see, hear and smell things that are not there.

In my younger days when I once over-experimented, I heard a pipe organ playing for a solid week, except when I left my "village" for the bigger town ten miles distant. As soon as I returned to my village the pipe organ started up again. The music began in a major key. I was sure it was from some local church which must have placed speakers outside to advertise a big revival or other event. But the sounds remained the same volume wherever I drove through the neighborhoods. Friends could not hear it and I became annoyed with them. I almost flagged down a cop to ask him where it was coming from. Uh-oh.

These things are quite convincing to the experiencer. Two and a half decades later I admit the organ was an halucination, but those voices emanating from the refrigerater in the timbre of shortwave chatter I believe were real, an electronic phenomenon only drugged up ears could hear.

No wonder some of these ancient people were so convinced. What would they think of a modern day illusionist who can convince a gallery of critics that he has made a jumbo jet or the statue of liberty disappear? Copperfield would be the son of god. The ancients had their own rope tricks. The ancient world was stuffed full of magicians. Some were probably geniuses at it. It could always get you a free meal, just the blessings you handed out. I would wager there were at least five times the magicians (holy men) per capita in ancient society as there are in our modern corporate society. Magic, superstition were it. Everyone believed.

[HCabret]

I was not speaking of the God I know but if you thought that the bible God was my God then I agree with your evaluation.

That bible genocidal son murdering God is quite easy to beat or be better than.

Regards
DLJesus Christ is the god.

[desiresjab]

Wikipeja says that virtually all modern scholars agree on the historical existence of Jesus. I don't mind assuming that he did exist. It is his other attributes that are in question.

Say, are a lot of those biblical scholars atheists?

[mal4mac]

Say, are a lot of those biblical scholars atheists?

Is the Pope catholic?

[mal4mac]

Any and all harmless beliefs are allowed by Gnostic Christians. We know that any myth can be internalized for good results and as esoteric ecumenists, we enjoy knowledge of all the myths that man has created about Gods.


What about myths that aren't created about gods? I'm internalizing Pickwick at the moment by re-reading Dicken's superb novel. But does Pickwick exist? Does God exist? How do you know?


... you see why Christianity annihilated Gnostic Christianity. We do not let the evils of forced literalism go unopposed. To a tyrant like Constantine, we were poison. One of his first commands to his new Church was to kill off the free thinkers and of course, his new tool, his Church, did as bid. It was quite a ride for free thought for the next 1,000 years.

Yup they destroyed the Sceptics, Epicureans, and other favourites of mine as well. Dangerous bunch these Christians!
How can a Gnostic Christian, call himself a Christian? Why not just Gnostic? Surely you don't want to even appear to be in the same club as Constantine? And as you seem to think "all myths are true" then why specify the Christian element in the name of your club?



It is my view that all right wing literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists, --- as well as those who do not believe. Literalists hurt their parent religions --- and everyone else, be he a believer or not. Literalists and the right wing of religions make us all into laughing stocks.


Nope, to me, and many atheists, you are a laughing stock all on your own. Don't blame the literalists!



For evil to grow my friend, all good people need do is nothing. Fight literalism when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

You are making a lot of sense, you're almost there, just drop the dotty Gnosticism and then you might be taken more seriously.

[mal4mac]

Just so you know, I think our magnetic shield holds a cosmic consciousness that we can access.

:banana:

[Gnostic Bishop]

[QUOTE=desiresjab;1268881]As far as I know there is not a shred of historical evidence for the existence of Jesus. Is there a Roman record? A Jewish record? He was likely regarded as a celestial being in the beginning. As with other celestial beings, stories about him coming to earth eventually developed and evolved. The whole thing seems to be apocryphal.

QUOTE]

I believe that Jesus is just another one of the Heroes of 1000 Faces. As proposed by Joseph Campbell.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

Jesus Christ is the god.

If you really believe that then so are you. I have already admitted that I am.

Are you ready to step up to what Jesus says you are to do?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

If you are ready then prepare to be a Gnostic Christian because you will reject Christianity and literalism for truth and reality.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

Wikipeja says that virtually all modern scholars agree on the historical existence of Jesus. I don't mind assuming that he did exist. It is his other attributes that are in question.

Say, are a lot of those biblical scholars atheists?

I am afraid that Wiki is lying to you.

The Jesus Project has been the most modern revue by the highest numbers of scholars ever and they show that the bible Jesus likely never existed. There is no proof whatsoever. There were people named Jesus for sure and who knows, maybe even a Rabbi but nothing else.

There was an esoteric teacher though who did put a lot of esoteric word in Jesus' mouth.

Gnostic Christian preach what that archetypal Jesus did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

Is the Pope catholic?

Yes. A lying Catholic and a pedophile protector.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

What about myths that aren't created about gods? I'm internalizing Pickwick at the moment by re-reading Dicken's superb novel. But does Pickwick exist? Does God exist? How do you know?

The myth is a vehicle to activate your pineal gland and higher mind. If Pickwick works for you then have at it.

God does exist but you have to redefine it as natural and not supernatural. You are the only God you can have knowledge of and Gnosis teaches you that.


Yup they destroyed the Sceptics, Epicureans, and other favourites of mine as well. Dangerous bunch these Christians!

When Constantine bought the church, his first thought was likely to send his Christian army out to slaughter all who did not think as he wanted us to think. The Church gleefully dis as bid.


How can a Gnostic Christian, call himself a Christian? Why not just Gnostic?

Because we use Christian/Jewish mythology as our working myth.


Surely you don't want to even appear to be in the same club as Constantine? And as you seem to think "all myths are true" then why specify the Christian element in the name of your club?


Because Christians are the vast majority of those I argue with. They are also the most immoral with Islam running a close second.



Nope, to me, and many atheists, you are a laughing stock all on your own. Don't blame the literalists!

Compare morals and not myths and if you do not see the huge difference then your not worth knowing.

We give equality to all. Especially women and gays. We also think women and children are to be protected and elevated by men as our duty to family. Somewhat like the law of the sea where women and children get to the lifeboats first.



You are making a lot of sense, you're almost there, just drop the dotty Gnosticism and then you might be taken more seriously.

I recognize that atheists have better morals than Christians, that is why I get along with most but only if they allow me my apotheosis. If not, then that shows that atheists are just as intolerant as the most fundamental religion.

Most atheist go by my morals but if you can't, then that is your loss, not mine.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

:banana:

http://vimeo.com/26318064

Regards
DL

[YesNo]

http://vimeo.com/26318064

Regards
DL

I enjoyed the video. I find the work of Michael Persinger and Dean Radin particularly fascinating. However, I don't see how this fits in with either gnosticism or Christianity.

[Gnostic Bishop]

I enjoyed the video. I find the work of Michael Persinger and Dean Radin particularly fascinating. However, I don't see how this fits in with either gnosticism or Christianity.

It is where I think apotheosis took me. That is a speculation on my part as it is impossible for me to know where the cosmic consciousness was from inside it.

The Gnostic view of God has always been more like the Star Wars type of force than the personalized Christian view. As our next evolutionary step, it is possible that if there is a greater God than the cosmic consciousness, I do not think there is, then what I found could be where we somehow elevate our consciousness beyond what is collectively known.

This fits well with the Eastern traditions and both Christianity and Gnostic Christianity were highly influenced by the East.

The bible is full of esoteric passages that the church never talks about. They are in the make sheep making business and not the enlightenment business.

Regards
DL

[YesNo]

The cosmic consciousness part makes sense and I have no problem viewing each of us as Gods or Goddesses through our participation in consciousness. The reason it makes sense is that there is no material substance underlying matter and so by default all one really has is consciousness. That is, consciousness is fundamental.

How does Christianity differ from Gnostic Christianity? I would view them as two versions of the same religion.

[Gnostic Bishop]

The cosmic consciousness part makes sense and I have no problem viewing each of us as Gods or Goddesses through our participation in consciousness. The reason it makes sense is that there is no material substance underlying matter and so by default all one really has is consciousness. That is, consciousness is fundamental.

How does Christianity differ from Gnostic Christianity? I would view them as two versions of the same religion.

We are and I believe that Gnostic Christianity came first because Catholic means universal and we are Universalists while most of the other Abrahamic cults are not.

You make a good point on consciousness and are correct I think that matter does not really exist in a real sense even as it does exist in reality. Ouch, that hurt the brain cells. Rather a hard concept to put into words.

Perhaps that is why in the East they have about 8 word for consciousness and in the West we only have 3 or 4.

The main differences in theology between us is that they are literalists and only recognize 4 main gospels while we are not literalists in any form. The other main difference is that we believe in full equality for all while most of the Abrahamic cults will not give women and gays full equality.

Regards
DL

[YesNo]

I am not familiar enough with Abrahamic religions, but I agree with you about women and gays. However, I doubt that most of the people practicing an Abrahamic religion believe in a literal interpretation of their sacred texts. Whether one interprets the texts literally or not has nothing to do with the underlying reality. It just influences how one will approach that reality.

[Gnostic Bishop]

I am not familiar enough with Abrahamic religions, but I agree with you about women and gays. However, I doubt that most of the people practicing an Abrahamic religion believe in a literal interpretation of their sacred texts. Whether one interprets the texts literally or not has nothing to do with the underlying reality. It just influences how one will approach that reality.

True. And in the case of Christians, their God seems to hate everyone they do.

I think that we have to recognize that everyone who believes in Jesus must read at least some of the bible literally as that is the only place where such a belief can be created.

There is a right and left but they are all right wing in terms of literal reading.

Regards
DL

[YesNo]

True. And in the case of Christians, their God seems to hate everyone they do.

Their God is the same God that anyone else has. They just have a different way of expressing it.



I think that we have to recognize that everyone who believes in Jesus must read at least some of the bible literally as that is the only place where such a belief can be created.

I don't know. I don't think that is required. Some people can't read anyway. They just hear what others have said about it.



There is a right and left but they are all right wing in terms of literal reading.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

Their God is the same God that anyone else has. They just have a different way of expressing it.

They do but I don't think that their God and my God are the same. Mine has way better morals.

Have a quick read of an old O.P. of mine.

I was a skeptic till the age of 39. I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself an esoteric ecumenist and Gnostic Christian. Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake and that makes me as hated by Christians today as the ancient Gnostics that Constantine had the Christians kill when he bought the Catholic Church.

“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”

This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of the O. T. God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheep where Gnostic Christians are goats.

This is perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.

During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.

I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness or what I call; the Godhead.

The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. It does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.

I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have exaggerated tribal mentalities and poor morals as they have developed a double standard to be able to stomach their God.

I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.

I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to ignore whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar of excellence and seek further.

My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

Since then, I have tried to collect information that would help any that believe that apotheosis is possible, generally not Christians, --- as they do not believe in the mythical esoteric Jesus that I believe in and churches do not dare teach it.

This first clip gives the theological and philosophical interpretation of what Jesus taught and the second clip show what I think is a close representation of the method that helped me push my apotheosis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

Basically, the usual Christian Jesus is their hero and savior while my version demand that man himself steps up to the plate and save himself.

Which version do you think is more moral and deserving of praise and why?





I don't know. I don't think that is required. Some people can't read anyway. They just hear what others have said about it.

A person who believes a literalist literally is a literalist even if he did not see the literal words.

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

A person who believes a literalist literally is a literalist even if he did not see the literal words.

Regards
DLdo I have to take you literally?

[Gnostic Bishop]

do I have to take you literally?

I will have to get a proof reader to read my words back to me. I confused myself but yes, I think it wise to take me literally on this.

But not word for word. I think.

Regards
DL

[Paulclem]

I think you missed something off the original OP. Didn't you mean

How can modern men like me believe in a creator God?

[HCabret]

I will have to get a proof reader to read my words back to me. I confused myself but yes, I think it wise to take me literally on this.

But not word for word. I think.

Regards
DLso I can take you literally, but not anyone else?

[Gnostic Bishop]

I think you missed something off the original OP. Didn't you mean

How can modern men like me believe in a creator God?

I do not.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

so I can take you literally, but not anyone else?

Exactly. I am the only truthful person in the world, but only from MPOV.

Regards
DL

[YesNo]

A person who believes a literalist literally is a literalist even if he did not see the literal words.

Regards
DL

I enjoyed the links you referred to although I didn't have time to finish the second one. This all sounds good, but I don't understand the hostility toward Christianity especially if you have reached an apotheosis state. I would think a God would be above that sort of thing.

So, why the hostility toward Christianity? Who cares if they are literalists? Isn't that their problem?

[HCabret]

Exactly. I am the only truthful person in the world, but only from MPOV.

Regards
DLdont forget that you are also an outed misogynist. I just want you to remember that.

[Gnostic Bishop]

I enjoyed the links you referred to although I didn't have time to finish the second one. This all sounds good, but I don't understand the hostility toward Christianity especially if you have reached an apotheosis state. I would think a God would be above that sort of thing.

So, why the hostility toward Christianity? Who cares if they are literalists? Isn't that their problem?

No. It is a problem for all of us. Grab a coffee.

For the evils of religion to grow, read any scripture literally.

Any and all harmless beliefs are allowed by Gnostic Christians. We know that any myth can be internalized for good results and as esoteric ecumenists, we enjoy knowledge of all the myths that man has created about Gods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D


When there is a victim is when that view changes. Then you see why Christianity annihilated Gnostic Christianity. We do not let the evils of forced literalism go unopposed. To a tyrant like Constantine, we were poison. One of his first commands to his new Church was to kill off the free thinkers and of course, his new tool, his Church, did as bid. It was quite a ride for free thought for the next 1,000 years.

For the evils of religion to grow.

How can a Gnostic Christian, --- and any other free thinking moral person, --- not judge other's morals when seeing someone hurt other because of the same Church's teachings today?

Can you ignore such things if you have decent morals? Impossible. Especially with Islam pulling the same murderous, freedom stifling ****.

We must discriminate and judge constantly. Every law is a compulsion on all of us to judge.

It is my view that all right wing literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists, --- as well as those who do not believe. Literalists hurt their parent religions --- and everyone else, be he a believer or not. Literalists and the right wing of religions make us all into laughing stocks. Their God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution has got to go. So must beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic. These are all evil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HKHa...x=0&playnext=1

They also do much harm to their own fellow adherents.

African witches and Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9...eature=related

Jesus Camp 1of 3
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=48b_1185215493

Death to Gays.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMw2Z...eature=related

For evil to grow my friend, all good people need do is nothing. Fight literalism when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

dont forget that you are also an outed misogynist. I just want you to remember that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vngjoSb-XrE

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vngjoSb-XrE

Regards
DL;) tell yourself whatever you need.

I am a crude man. Bite me *****. I spend most of my time defending your rights because too many of you are too ****ing stupid to use your natural networking skills to gain your freedom from oppression at the hands of your men.

You may not like me using the sex and leg imagery but if you gals would keep your God damned knees together in unison for once in your miserable lives you would gain your freedom in less than a weak. You do not even have what it takes to do your own duty to your own daughters.

What are you waiting for to remember your duty?

Regards
DL

[desiresjab]

GB, what do you know of the Bahai, and what do you think of their doctrines?

From my point of view, desperation is what it takes to believe in God the benevolent creator. Things are always churning in the subconcious. A man surprised by his own conversion would not be if he were able to review the activity of his subconscious. I try never to underestimate the mind able to reflect on such things, do space travel and invent Chaos Theory.

Believing in God is much easier than believing in God the benevolent. For the latter task we need special equipment. You and I and all who read this can count ourselves lucky, we might even give thanks that so much good has found us. But as we read this from our beloved nooks, children lie with their limbs blown off elsewhere.

Thank you, beloved creator, for sparing me the misery forced upon so many others in your infinite wisdom. Is that it? Thank you for giving me citizenship in a colonizing nation under the relatively new concept of corporate colonization. For giving me a home among the tramplers instead of the trampled, I praise you. But, almighty God, you beat your dog in front of me who you are nice to. What am I to think of you?

[Gnostic Bishop]

I have read about 8 various holy books including the Bahai one. That was some years ago now.

Too much woo for my view of reality. My apotheosis forces me to reject all woo as that is not a good think to base a theology on.

No literal reading of any books on God is good for a theology as all of those are born the way this good analogy shows.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06jF1EG8o-Q

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

I have read about 8 various holy books including the Bahai one. That was some years ago now.

Too much woo for my view of reality. My apotheosis forces me to reject all woo as that is not a good think to base a theology on.

No literal reading of any books on God is good for a theology as all of those are born the way this good analogy shows.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06jF1EG8o-Q

Regards
DLi dont believe in leptons.

[YesNo]

OK, I can see how I need to be skeptical of Joseph Smith's vision based on the "dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum" argument from South Park, but how do I know that any Gnostic Christian ever had an "apotheosis", whatever that is? What's the evidence?

If we are all Gods and Goddesses, which I'll accept as an assumption, why do we need to go through an apotheosis? We are already Gods and Goddesses by assumption whether we know it or not.

[Gnostic Bishop]

OK, I can see how I need to be skeptical of Joseph Smith's vision based on the "dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum" argument from South Park, but how do I know that any Gnostic Christian ever had an "apotheosis", whatever that is? What's the evidence?

Apotheosis cannot provide evidence as it all happens within one's mind.

The only evidence, and I would not even call it that, is from the testimony of shaman and if you believe it, Paul of Tarsus. I actually give him some veracity for his as he speaks of the hardship whereas most shaman do not. To them it is all nirvana.

The simple description for apotheosis is finding that there actually is, in esoteric terms, a Jacobs ladder. All it was for me was that there actually was an unseen Godhead, not miracle working super God, but just a natural entity that happens to be the next evolutionary step of our conscious minds.



If we are all Gods and Goddesses, which I'll accept as an assumption, why do we need to go through an apotheosis? We are already Gods and Goddesses by assumption whether we know it or not.

More like Gods and Goddesses WIPs. We are Works in Progress, and must see Gnosis and God as an exercise in perfecting ourselves and our laws.

God, as I would define the word is just the best rules and laws to live by and deep thinking and apotheosis helps us nail those down. It is rather like the Eastern traditions that use meditation to gain enlightenment.

Jesus used the methods but the Church will not teach that part of what he taught. No money in it.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

It all works, if you are lucky, to open your third or single eye.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

Here is the goal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

Here is a method and mind set I recomend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

OK, I can see how I need to be skeptical of Joseph Smith's vision based on the "dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum" argument from South Park, but how do I know that any Gnostic Christian ever had an "apotheosis", whatever that is? What's the evidence?

If we are all Gods and Goddesses, which I'll accept as an assumption, why do we need to go through an apotheosis? We are already Gods and Goddesses by assumption whether we know it or not.have you ever actually watched that episode of South Park? The whole point is that morality is independent of whether parables espousing the morality are factual. Anyone is capable of being good and anyone is capable of being bad. It doesn't really matter whether stories are fact or fiction.

[HCabret]

Here is the goal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

Here is a method and mind set I recomend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

Regards
DLleave the book burning to the nazis.

[HCabret]

Here is the goal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

Here is a method and mind set I recomend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

Regards
DL
STOP TELLING ME HOW YOU THINK I SHOULD THINK AND LET ME THINK FOR MYSELF! I'll believe in whatever I want to believe in and there is nothing you or anyone else can do about it.

[Gnostic Bishop]

have you ever actually watched that episode of South Park? The whole point is that morality is independent of whether parables espousing the morality are factual. Anyone is capable of being good and anyone is capable of being bad. It doesn't really matter whether stories are fact or fiction.

Correct. Myths have good messages that translate well into reality.

To believe that the myth is real is what is killing Christianity and literal reading is what has cause much murder of more intelligent people than literalists. Literalism is what created the inquisition and the Dark Ages.

But to try to base a religion on anything but reality is foolish. Jesus taught myths to the un-initiated, less intelligent while teaching how they worked in reality to his inner circle.

The church has forgotten that it is to have an inner circle to explain that their belief are myths and that s why the right wing of religions is so damaging to the rest of society.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

leave the book burning to the nazis.

Christianity was born from the murder of all who did not want to think as the literally do and their religion is built on the scriptures of other traditions. The new Christian/Catholic church was Constantine's S.S.

Ask all the dead who just wanted to think for themselves.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

STOP TELLING ME HOW YOU THINK I SHOULD THINK AND LET ME THINK FOR MYSELF! I'll believe in whatever I want to believe in and there is nothing you or anyone else can do about it.

Duh. Note the word recommend.

What you wrote is what non-Christians were saying to Christians as they were killing them.

I offer information. Not death.

Believe as you like and believe it deeply but take it inside if you want conformation.

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

Correct. Myths have good messages that translate well into reality.

To believe that the myth is real is what is killing Christianity and literal reading is what has cause much murder of more intelligent people than literalists. Literalism is what created the inquisition and the Dark Ages.

But to try to base a religion on anything but reality is foolish. Jesus taught myths to the un-initiated, less intelligent while teaching how they worked in reality to his inner circle.

The church has forgotten that it is to have an inner circle to explain that their belief are myths and that s why the right wing of religions is so damaging to the rest of society.

Regards
DLits irrelevant whether the bible is fact or fiction. Being nice has nothing to do with superstition.

[HCabret]

Christianity was born from the murder of all who did not want to think as the literally do and their religion is built on the scriptures of other traditions. The new Christian/Catholic church was Constantine's S.S.

Ask all the dead who just wanted to think for themselves.

Regards
DLso you condone burning bibles?

[HCabret]

Duh. Note the word recommend.

What you wrote is what non-Christians were saying to Christians as they were killing them.

I offer information. Not death.

Believe as you like and believe it deeply but take it inside if you want conformation.

Regards
DLyou offer ignorance. You want everyone to think the way you do.

[Gnostic Bishop]

its irrelevant whether the bible is fact or fiction. Being nice has nothing to do with superstition.

Tell that to women and gays that have been discriminated against forever because of stupid belief in a myth.

Tell it to all those the Inquisition murdered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqN8EYIIR3g&feature=related

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

so you condone burning bibles?

No. Christianity did but thanks for trying to reverse what I said.

Lurkers will se your dishonest ploy.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

you offer ignorance. You want everyone to think the way you do.

Sure but I would not kill if they did not but those you support did and continue to do just that.

For the evils of religion to grow, read any scripture literally.

Any and all harmless beliefs are allowed by Gnostic Christians. We know that any myth can be internalized for good results and as esoteric ecumenists, we enjoy knowledge of all the myths that man has created about Gods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D

When there is a victim is when that view changes. Then you see why Christianity annihilated Gnostic Christianity. We do not let the evils of forced literalism go unopposed. To a tyrant like Constantine, we were poison. One of his first commands to his new Church was to kill off the free thinkers and of course, his new tool, his Church, did as bid. It was quite a ride for free thought for the next 1,000 years.

For the evils of religion to grow.

How can a Gnostic Christian, --- and any other free thinking moral person, --- not judge other's morals when seeing someone hurt other because of the same Church's teachings today?

Can you ignore such things if you have decent morals? Impossible. Especially with Islam pulling the same murderous, freedom stifling ****.

We must discriminate and judge constantly. Every law is a compulsion on all of us to judge.

It is my view that all right wing literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists, --- as well as those who do not believe. Literalists hurt their parent religions --- and everyone else, be he a believer or not. Literalists and the right wing of religions make us all into laughing stocks. Their God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution has got to go. So must beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic. These are all evil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HKHa...x=0&playnext=1

They also do much harm to their own fellow adherents.

African witches and Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9...eature=related

Jesus Camp 1of 3
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=48b_1185215493

Death to Gays.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMw2Z...eature=related

For evil to grow my friend, all good people need do is nothing. Fight literalism when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

Tell that to women and gays that have been discriminated against forever because of stupid belief in a myth.

Tell it to all those the Inquisition murdered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqN8EYIIR3g&feature=related

Regards
DLwe've already established your misogyny, so.....any opinion you have on women is pretty much moot. It's sounds to me that women should avoid you like the plague.

[HCabret]

No. Christianity did but thanks for trying to reverse what I said.

Lurkers will se your dishonest ploy.

Regards
DLi thought you were a Christian?

[HCabret]

Sure but I would not kill if they did not but those you support did and continue to do just that.

For the evils of religion to grow, read any scripture literally.

Any and all harmless beliefs are allowed by Gnostic Christians. We know that any myth can be internalized for good results and as esoteric ecumenists, we enjoy knowledge of all the myths that man has created about Gods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D

When there is a victim is when that view changes. Then you see why Christianity annihilated Gnostic Christianity. We do not let the evils of forced literalism go unopposed. To a tyrant like Constantine, we were poison. One of his first commands to his new Church was to kill off the free thinkers and of course, his new tool, his Church, did as bid. It was quite a ride for free thought for the next 1,000 years.

For the evils of religion to grow.

How can a Gnostic Christian, --- and any other free thinking moral person, --- not judge other's morals when seeing someone hurt other because of the same Church's teachings today?

Can you ignore such things if you have decent morals? Impossible. Especially with Islam pulling the same murderous, freedom stifling ****.

We must discriminate and judge constantly. Every law is a compulsion on all of us to judge.

It is my view that all right wing literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists, --- as well as those who do not believe. Literalists hurt their parent religions --- and everyone else, be he a believer or not. Literalists and the right wing of religions make us all into laughing stocks. Their God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution has got to go. So must beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic. These are all evil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HKHa...x=0&playnext=1

They also do much harm to their own fellow adherents.

African witches and Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9...eature=related

Jesus Camp 1of 3
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=48b_1185215493

Death to Gays.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMw2Z...eature=related

For evil to grow my friend, all good people need do is nothing. Fight literalism when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DLcoercion is the worst sort of violence. Stop telling people how they should think and just tell us how you think.

[Gnostic Bishop]

i thought you were a Christian?

No way in hell. I am a Gnostic Christian. I follow a moral theology as compared to the Christian one.

I will talk of that in this new O.P..

http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?79930-Care-to-compare-the-Jesus-you-know-to-the-one-I-know&p=1269363#post1269363

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

coercion is the worst sort of violence. Stop telling people how they should think and just tell us how you think.

That is exactly what I am doing.

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

No way in hell. I am a Gnostic Christian. I follow a moral theology as compared to the Christian one.

I will talk of that in this new O.P..

http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?79930-Care-to-compare-the-Jesus-you-know-to-the-one-I-know&p=1269363#post1269363

Regards
DLgnostic "Christian". Am I missing something?

[HCabret]

That is exactly what I am doing.

Regards
DLyou keep telling people how you think they should think.

[Gnostic Bishop]

gnostic "Christian". Am I missing something?

Yes. Knowledge of religious history.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

you keep telling people how you think they should think.

Correct.

We all express opinions here don't we.

Did you not just opine that I should not tell people how I think they should thing and is that not you telling me hoe to think?

But we are off topic. Get back on it or start an O.P. on opinion giving.

Regards
DL

[Ecurb]

With apologies to Ogden Nash:

The Communion wine must've been toxic
The day they put "g" in "gnu" and "Gnostic".

[mal4mac]

And when they put the k in knee and knickers,
The drunkards were determined to trick us.
But when they put the a into Aesop and aeon,
Someone should have told them to get a "grip on".
In putting put the p into ptarmigan and Ptolemy
What were they doing? Please tell me!
And don't forget the x that's a z in xenon
The chemists said, "Evil? We see none".
So beware who you let loose on the language
Protect it, like the French, do no damage!

[HCabret]

yes. Knowledge of religious history.

Regards
dlchristian!!!!!!!

[HCabret]

Correct.

We all express opinions here don't we.

Did you not just opine that I should not tell people how I think they should thing and is that not you telling me hoe to think?

But we are off topic. Get back on it or start an O.P. on opinion giving.

Regards
DLi am a fascist. I hate people who think differently than. I hate gnostic Christians and Muslims and Jews and Jains and Buddhists and blacks and gays and Mexicans and libtards and retards and pretty much anyone who isn't me. Except Kate Upton's tits, I love those.

You are a closet hypocrite, I am just a hypocrite.