Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity?

[Gnostic Bishop]

Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity?

The Gnostic wing of Christianity, if it can even be called that today, has quite a few differences to Christianity and Catholicism.

If the old Gnostic Christians were here, they would hardly recognize what has happened to the original Orthodox Catholic Church or it's various offshoots in Protestantism or Islam. The Gnostic Christian Jesus would have a fit and would be quite disappointed I think. I know that this Gnostic Christian is.

The two main differences that moved the old Christians to kill Gnostic Christians and burn their scriptures was literalism in reading scriptures and the fact that the Gnostic version of Jesus was a Universalist.

That Gnostic Christian Jesus, and the Gnostic Christians of that flavor, (there are likely as many Gnostic sects as Christian sects), sees a spark of God in all people including women and gays. That fact, to me, makes Gnostic Christianity a more desirable denomination of Christianity than all the rest.

If a religion cannot abide with equality of the sexes then to my mind it is not a just religion and is not worthy of the support of moral people. Inequality is an immoral position and most of the Abrahamic cults are of that immoral persuasion.

As the superior Catholic theology, it is my hope that Gnostic Christianity will eventually bury the non-egalitarian and immoral Christian cults as their members recognize that equality is the right moral system for all to live under.

If you have investigated Gnostic Christianity, do you agree that from a moral POV, they are the superior Christian theology thanks to equality and Universalism?

Regards
DL

[Iain Sparrow]

If you have investigated Gnostic Christianity, do you agree that from a moral POV, they are the superior Christian theology thanks to equality and Universalism?

Regards
DL

No actually, I don't agree that from a moral point-of-view that the Gnostic branch of Christianity is better than other flavors of the religion. If you spread a lie, is it less a lie because you make it more attractive to a modern audience?

[Gnostic Bishop]

No actually, I don't agree that from a moral point-of-view that the Gnostic branch of Christianity is better than other flavors of the religion. If you spread a lie, is it less a lie because you make it more attractive to a modern audience?

What lie are you on about?

Gnostic Christians see all scriptures and Gods as myths until apotheosis forces us to acknowledge any other life in what is an unseen realm.

We see them all as just tools for us to internalize to activate our pineal gland and gain us enlightenment.

Where is the lie in that?
We sell a method and a myth. Not anything tangible like our mythical God.

The lie that we fought before Christianity killed us was that literalism that was being forced into people was evil. That opposition to forced literalism to the churches view of only 4 gospels is why we died under Constantine's church.

If you do not see value in our giving full equality to women and gays as compared to what Christianity and Islam is doing then ---------

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

What lie are you on about?

Gnostic Christians see all scriptures and Gods as myths until apotheosis forces us to acknowledge any other life in what is an unseen realm.

We see them all as just tools for us to internalize to activate our pineal gland and gain us enlightenment.

Where is the lie in that?
We sell a method and a myth. Not anything tangible like our mythical God.

The lie that we fought before Christianity killed us was that literalism that was being forced into people was evil. That opposition to forced literalism to the churches view of only 4 gospels is why we died under Constantine's church.

If you do not see value in our giving full equality to women and gays as compared to what Christianity and Islam is doing then ---------

Regards
DL
One does not have to be a Gnostic to respect women and gays.

[Gnostic Bishop]

One does not have to be a Gnostic to respect women and gays.

Correct. But if in most of the mainstream religions, you have to ignore what it tells you.

He shall rule over you. God could have added, *****.

What the hell is wrong with Christian men who allow such a dictate.

Change your ways or go extinct. On second thought, do not change your ways.

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

Correct. But if in most of the mainstream religions, you have to ignore what it tells you.

He shall rule over you. God could have added, *****.

What the hell is wrong with Christian men who allow such a dictate.

Change your ways or go extinct. On second thought, do not change your ways.

Regards
DLfirst of all i am not a christian, nor do i plan on becoming one. But that does not mean the only alternative in the entirety of existence is Gnosticism. Gnostics are not the only people in the world who "respect gays and women". And anyway, what about young people, or old people, or blacks, or asians, or hispanics, or aborigines, or muslims, or jews, or sikhs, or atheists, or apatheists, pantheists, or panestheists, or polytheists, or pagans, or practitioners of voodoo, or shintoism, or daoism, is taoism, or jainism, or transcendentalists? Do any of these groups deserve "respect" in addition to "gays and women"?

Think how ever you want to think and i'll do the same. Coercion is the worst kind of violence and the greatest enemy of freedom.

[Gnostic Bishop]

first of all i am not a christian, nor do i plan on becoming one. But that does not mean the only alternative in the entirety of existence is Gnosticism. Gnostics are not the only people in the world who "respect gays and women". And anyway, what about young people, or old people, or blacks, or asians, or hispanics, or aborigines, or muslims, or jews, or sikhs, or atheists, or apatheists, pantheists, or panestheists, or polytheists, or pagans, or practitioners of voodoo, or shintoism, or daoism, is taoism, or jainism, or transcendentalists? Do any of these groups deserve "respect" in addition to "gays and women"?

Think how ever you want to think and i'll do the same. Coercion is the worst kind of violence and the greatest enemy of freedom.

Correct and that is why Gnostic Christians are Universalists who try to tech that all belief systems can be internalized to attain enlightenment. We do think that that can only happen by people seeking God within as Jesus taught.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

The ancients knew this but Christianity never taught it because there was no money in it.

Regards
DL

[Frostball]

If you have investigated Gnostic Christianity, do you agree that from a moral POV, they are the superior Christian theology thanks to equality and Universalism?

Regards
DL


No actually, I don't agree that from a moral point-of-view that the Gnostic branch of Christianity is better than other flavors of the religion. If you spread a lie, is it less a lie because you make it more attractive to a modern audience?

Agree with Iain. The important thing for me is whether or not I actually think the claims that Gnostic Christianity makes are true. How moral or immoral a religion is may affect whether a person finds the religion attractive, but it says nothing about the truth value of said religion. You shouldn't base your beliefs on what you'd like to be true, but on evidence.

Unless Gnostic Christianity somehow has more evidence than other sects, I am unable to believe it is true.

[Gnostic Bishop]

Agree with Iain. The important thing for me is whether or not I actually think the claims that Gnostic Christianity makes are true. How moral or immoral a religion is may affect whether a person finds the religion attractive, but it says nothing about the truth value of said religion. You shouldn't base your beliefs on what you'd like to be true, but on evidence.

Unless Gnostic Christianity somehow has more evidence than other sects, I am unable to believe it is true.

I do not know what you mean by true. All religions and Gods are based on myths. Gnostic Christians recognize this and that is why we say that any myth or belief can be internalized to gain insight and open our third eye.

If you will not use morals as the guide for choosing a religion, --- or philosophy if you are a non-believer, ---- on what basis should you choose a religion knowing that none hold truth as all are myth based?

Regards
DL

[Frostball]

I do not know what you mean by true. All religions and Gods are based on myths. Gnostic Christians recognize this and that is why we say that any myth or belief can be internalized to gain insight and open our third eye.

If you will not use morals as the guide for choosing a religion, --- or philosophy if you are a non-believer, ---- on what basis should you choose a religion knowing that none hold truth as all are myth based?

Regards
DL

The wikipedia page on Christian Gnosticism doesn't mention the things you're talking about here. Regardless, if your version of Christian Gnosticism doesn't make any single supernatural, metaphysical, or physical claim about the universe, and doesn't instruct people how to live their lives, then I don't have any problem with it.

But it does make one wonder, that if it does none of these things, what does it do? Is it's main purpose simply for community? One doesn't need to be a Gnostic Christian to read mythology, enjoy it, and even gain some moral lessons from it.

The reason you can't use morals as the guide for your religion is that what you find moral has nothing to do with what the truth of the universe is. For example, I find the Christian god Yahweh to be incredibly evil, but just because I think this does not mean it's impossible that he actually does exist. So generally when you are "picking" your religion, so to speak, you are making a decision about which religion you think accurately describes the universe. Christians are Christian because they think the claims that their brand of Christianity makes are true. Why are you a Gnostic Christian?

[HCabret]

I do not know what you mean by true. All religions and Gods are based on myths. Gnostic Christians recognize this and that is why we say that any myth or belief can be internalized to gain insight and open our third eye.

If you will not use morals as the guide for choosing a religion, --- or philosophy if you are a non-believer, ---- on what basis should you choose a religion knowing that none hold truth as all are myth based?

Regards
DL
Everything is real.

[Gnostic Bishop]

The wikipedia page on Christian Gnosticism doesn't mention the things you're talking about here.

I am a modern Gnostic Christian, of course we have evolved away from the old descriptions in some ways. Do Christians still stone there children? If they do not follow old customs, why expect modern Gnostics to?

I am here for questions. Feel free to ask.


Regardless, if your version of Christian Gnosticism doesn't make any single supernatural, metaphysical, or physical claim about the universe, and doesn't instruct people how to live their lives, then I don't have any problem with it.

We do not believe in the supernatural and cannot have knowledge of such. The natural guides us not the supernatural.

You will have a problem as we do teach the morality we follow. Theologies and philosophies all try to find and teach the best way to live life well by. If you will ignore those who try to push for better actions and laws then you are not much of a man and Gnostic Christians would ignore you as we would see you as lacking a social conscience.


But it does make one wonder, that if it does none of these things, what does it do? Is it's main purpose simply for community? One doesn't need to be a Gnostic Christian to read mythology, enjoy it, and even gain some moral lessons from it.

Correct. We say the all myths can and should be internalized to activate the pineal gland and open our single eye and bring enlightenment.


The reason you can't use morals as the guide for your religion is that what you find moral has nothing to do with what the truth of the universe is.

We do not care what the universe does. It is our soul that is of concern and if you do not choose your religion or secular political party by it's morals then I do not think much of your method of selection whatever it may be.


For example, I find the Christian god Yahweh to be incredibly evil, but just because I think this does not mean it's impossible that he actually does exist.

Correct but if he showed up, would you fall on your face and adore the prick or would you do like me and reach for the bullet with his vile name on it?


So generally when you are "picking" your religion, so to speak, you are making a decision about which religion you think accurately describes the universe.

Hogwash, if your universe includes creation. If not, note that 95%, est, inherit their family God and do not even think of the actual theology they follow. That is why most surveys show that non-theists know more about religions than theists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV2VjdpVonY


Christians are Christian because they think the claims that their brand of Christianity makes are true. Why are you a Gnostic Christian?

Apotheosis forced me to be.

I was a skeptic till the age of 39. I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself an esoteric ecumenist and Gnostic Christian. Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake and that makes me as hated by Christians today as the ancient Gnostics that Constantine had the Christians kill when he bought the Catholic Church.

“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”

This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of the O. T. God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheep where Gnostic Christians are goats.

This is perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.

During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.

I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness or what I call; the Godhead.

The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. It does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.

I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have exaggerated tribal mentalities and poor morals as they have developed a double standard to be able to stomach their God.

I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.

I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to ignore whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar of excellence and seek further.

My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

Since then, I have tried to collect information that would help any that believe that apotheosis is possible, generally not Christians, --- as they do not believe in the mythical esoteric Jesus that I believe in and churches do not dare teach it.

This first clip gives the theological and philosophical interpretation of what Jesus taught and the second clip show what I think is a close representation of the method that helped me push my apotheosis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

Basically, the usual Christian Jesus is their hero and savior while my version demand that man himself steps up to the plate and save himself.

Which version do you think is more moral and deserving of praise and why?

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

Everything is real.

And a lot of it is garbage. So is your post if it was meant to answer the question put to you.

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

And a lot of it is garbage. So is your post if it was meant to answer the question put to you.

Regards
DLjust because something is garbage to you, doesn't make it any less real. People should believe in whatever they want to believe in.

[Gnostic Bishop]

just because something is garbage to you, doesn't make it any less real. People should believe in whatever they want to believe in.

Really?

For the evils of religion to grow, read any scripture literally.

Any and all harmless beliefs are allowed by Gnostic Christians. We know that any myth can be internalized for good results and as esoteric ecumenists, we enjoy knowledge of all the myths that man has created about Gods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D


When there is a victim is when that view changes. Then you see why Christianity annihilated Gnostic Christianity. We do not let the evils of forced literalism go unopposed. To a tyrant like Constantine, we were poison. One of his first commands to his new Church was to kill off the free thinkers and of course, his new tool, his Church, did as bid. It was quite a ride for free thought for the next 1,000 years.

For the evils of religion to grow.

How can a Gnostic Christian, --- and any other free thinking moral person, --- not judge other's morals when seeing someone hurt other because of the same Church's teachings today?

Can you ignore such things if you have decent morals? Impossible. Especially with Islam pulling the same murderous, freedom stifling ****.

We must discriminate and judge constantly. Every law is a compulsion on all of us to judge.

It is my view that all right wing literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists, --- as well as those who do not believe. Literalists hurt their parent religions --- and everyone else, be he a believer or not. Literalists and the right wing of religions make us all into laughing stocks. Their God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution has got to go. So must beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic. These are all evil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HKHa...x=0&playnext=1

They also do much harm to their own fellow adherents.

African witches and Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9...eature=related

Jesus Camp 1of 3
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=48b_1185215493

Death to Gays.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMw2Z...eature=related

For evil to grow my friend, all good people need do is nothing. Fight literalism when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

Really?

For the evils of religion to grow, read any scripture literally.

Any and all harmless beliefs are allowed by Gnostic Christians. We know that any myth can be internalized for good results and as esoteric ecumenists, we enjoy knowledge of all the myths that man has created about Gods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D


When there is a victim is when that view changes. Then you see why Christianity annihilated Gnostic Christianity. We do not let the evils of forced literalism go unopposed. To a tyrant like Constantine, we were poison. One of his first commands to his new Church was to kill off the free thinkers and of course, his new tool, his Church, did as bid. It was quite a ride for free thought for the next 1,000 years.

For the evils of religion to grow.

How can a Gnostic Christian, --- and any other free thinking moral person, --- not judge other's morals when seeing someone hurt other because of the same Church's teachings today?

Can you ignore such things if you have decent morals? Impossible. Especially with Islam pulling the same murderous, freedom stifling ****.

We must discriminate and judge constantly. Every law is a compulsion on all of us to judge.

It is my view that all right wing literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists, --- as well as those who do not believe. Literalists hurt their parent religions --- and everyone else, be he a believer or not. Literalists and the right wing of religions make us all into laughing stocks. Their God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution has got to go. So must beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic. These are all evil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HKHa...x=0&playnext=1

They also do much harm to their own fellow adherents.

African witches and Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9...eature=related

Jesus Camp 1of 3
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=48b_1185215493

Death to Gays.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMw2Z...eature=related

For evil to grow my friend, all good people need do is nothing. Fight literalism when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DL
I will do as I please regardless of what you say on the matter. If I want to take some piece of literature literally than I will. I will continue to take the commandment: thou shalt not kill, literally. I will love my enemies and turn my other cheek. I will fight those who they know better than others. God gave us free and independent minds and I plan to use mine.

Now if only people will read Walden. Maybe then the world would be a better place.

[Gnostic Bishop]

So if a rapist rapes your wife, you will turn the other cheek how? By offering your daughter?

For evil to grow, all good people need do is turn the other cheek.

You are following the Roman boot licking Jesus. His morality is not the best.

This poster talks of turning the other cheek. You might want to take him literally.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4QXOgVfY9k&feature=player_embedded

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

So if a rapist rapes your wife, you will turn the other cheek how? By offering your daughter?

For evil to grow, all good people need do is turn the other cheek.

You are following the Roman boot licking Jesus. His morality is not the best.

This poster talks of turning the other cheek. You might want to take him literally.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4QXOgVfY9k&feature=player_embedded

Regards
DLJesus is God. Isn't that enough for a Christian? Or do you as a Christian find that it is okay to pick and choose which parts you like and which you don't?

First of all if my hypothetical wife get hypothetically raped, then that crime would be against her and not me. It would be immoral of me to lower myself to the hypothetical rapist's level by raping their hypothetical wife or even by killing them as part of some revenge on my part.

I don't like hypotheticals especially ones that involve "what if your wife gets raped?" I don't have a wife, so the possibility of my non-existent wife getting raped is an immpossibility.

Turning the other cheek is not an act of submissiveness, it's an act of defiance. I refuse to become a rapist myself just to avoid appearing weak or cowardly. Violence is cowardly. The threat of violence is even worse, because you're not ballsy enough to carry through on it. If you are going to shoot me in the head, then DO IT ALREADY!! Stop acting like a little pussy pretending like you're going to do it and actually do it. If you are going to cut off my penis, then DO IT!

Cowards are those who say one thing and do another. Cafeteria Christians are cowards.

[Gnostic Bishop]

Jesus is God. Isn't that enough for a Christian? Or do you as a Christian find that it is okay to pick and choose which parts you like and which you don't?

First of all if my hypothetical wife get hypothetically raped, then that crime would be against her and not me. It would be immoral of me to lower myself to the hypothetical rapist's level by raping their hypothetical wife or even by killing them as part of some revenge on my part.

I don't like hypotheticals especially ones that involve "what if your wife gets raped?" I don't have a wife, so the possibility of my non-existent wife getting raped is an immpossibility.

Turning the other cheek is not an act of submissiveness, it's an act of defiance. I refuse to become a rapist myself just to avoid appearing weak or cowardly. Violence is cowardly. The threat of violence is even worse, because you're not ballsy enough to carry through on it. If you are going to shoot me in the head, then DO IT ALREADY!! Stop acting like a little pussy pretending like you're going to do it and actually do it. If you are going to cut off my penis, then DO IT!

Cowards are those who say one thing and do another. Cafeteria Christians are cowards.

???

I did not suggest you rape anyone and you insult me by calling me a Christian.

Seems we do not communicate well.

Regards
DL

[HCabret]

???

I did not suggest you rape anyone and you insult me by calling me a Christian.

Seems we do not communicate well.

Regards
DLyou called yourself a Christian!!!!!!!!

And talking in hypotheticals just like you. Please stop accusing me of having a wife!

[Frostball]

We do not believe in the supernatural and cannot have knowledge of such. The natural guides us not the supernatural.

You will have a problem as we do teach the morality we follow. Theologies and philosophies all try to find and teach the best way to live life well by. If you will ignore those who try to push for better actions and laws then you are not much of a man and Gnostic Christians would ignore you as we would see you as lacking a social conscience.

I would only have a problem if the morality you teach comes from a holy book, and is taught as unarguable truth. I'm not sure your sect does this, so maybe I don't have a problem with it. It seems the morality you teach is secular morality, and is the result of humans figuring out right and wrong through a long and hard process full of mistakes and learning. This is how I think it's suppose to work.

Correct. We say the all myths can and should be internalized to activate the pineal gland and open our single eye and bring enlightenment.

We do not care what the universe does. It is our soul that is of concern and if you do not choose your religion or secular political party by it's morals then I do not think much of your method of selection whatever it may be.
First you say that you don't believe in anything supernatural, but then you go on to say things about the third eye, and the soul. So does your sect indeed claim that a soul exists? That is definitely supernatural.


Hogwash, if your universe includes creation. If not, note that 95%, est, inherit their family God and do not even think of the actual theology they follow. That is why most surveys show that non-theists know more about religions than theists.
I'm talking about people who actually care whether their beliefs are true or not and will actually investigate whether they are. Of course most people don't even give their religion much thought and just follow what their parents brought them up to follow. Anybody who actually investigates will pick the religion they think corresponds to reality.


Apotheosis forced me to be.

I was a skeptic till the age of 39. I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself an esoteric ecumenist and Gnostic Christian. Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake and that makes me as hated by Christians today as the ancient Gnostics that Constantine had the Christians kill when he bought the Catholic Church.

“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”

This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of the O. T. God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheep where Gnostic Christians are goats.

This is perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.

During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.

I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness or what I call; the Godhead.

The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. It does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.

I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have exaggerated tribal mentalities and poor morals as they have developed a double standard to be able to stomach their God.

I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.

I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to ignore whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar of excellence and seek further.

My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

Since then, I have tried to collect information that would help any that believe that apotheosis is possible, generally not Christians, --- as they do not believe in the mythical esoteric Jesus that I believe in and churches do not dare teach it.

This first clip gives the theological and philosophical interpretation of what Jesus taught and the second clip show what I think is a close representation of the method that helped me push my apotheosis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

Basically, the usual Christian Jesus is their hero and savior while my version demand that man himself steps up to the plate and save himself.

Which version do you think is more moral and deserving of praise and why?

Regards
DL

I'm all for your decision to reject the immoral aspects of the bible, and to embrace the moral aspects of various religions. It's just that I can't help but notice that you actually are making claims about reality here. You talk about your apotheosis, and how that's the next evolutionary step. Where is your evidence for this other than your own personal feeling you have?

I might be nitpicking, because as you say we probably agree on most things morally, and you aren't here preaching hellfire, or anything bad really. You seem to want to take secular morality and couch it in religious terms, which to me seems completely unnecessary and if anything a bit confusing and at worst harmful to our ability to figure out morality, since many old religious myths teach questionable morality. If you have to sort through them and pick out which ones you think are moral, then you already know what you think is moral, so what's the point of the myth?

[Gnostic Bishop]

I would only have a problem if the morality you teach comes from a holy book, and is taught as unarguable truth. I'm not sure your sect does this, so maybe I don't have a problem with it. It seems the morality you teach is secular morality, and is the result of humans figuring out right and wrong through a long and hard process full of mistakes and learning. This is how I think it's suppose to work.

First you say that you don't believe in anything supernatural, but then you go on to say things about the third eye, and the soul. So does your sect indeed claim that a soul exists? That is definitely supernatural.

I'm talking about people who actually care whether their beliefs are true or not and will actually investigate whether they are. Of course most people don't even give their religion much thought and just follow what their parents brought them up to follow. Anybody who actually investigates will pick the religion they think corresponds to reality.



I'm all for your decision to reject the immoral aspects of the bible, and to embrace the moral aspects of various religions. It's just that I can't help but notice that you actually are making claims about reality here. You talk about your apotheosis, and how that's the next evolutionary step. Where is your evidence for this other than your own personal feeling you have?

I might be nitpicking, because as you say we probably agree on most things morally, and you aren't here preaching hellfire, or anything bad really. You seem to want to take secular morality and couch it in religious terms, which to me seems completely unnecessary and if anything a bit confusing and at worst harmful to our ability to figure out morality, since many old religious myths teach questionable morality. If you have to sort through them and pick out which ones you think are moral, then you already know what you think is moral, so what's the point of the myth?

Confirmation of right thinking but that does not just include myths but also all theologies and philosophies.

Wisdom can be found in many p[laces and you rightfully point to oue secular law for some wisdom even as I do not agrrr with all secular law. IE. Prostitution and drug policies.

I noted this.
"First you say that you don't believe in anything supernatural, but then you go on to say things about the third eye, and the soul. So does your sect indeed claim that a soul exists? That is definitely supernatural."

As traditionally described by Christianity, yes. Not as described by modern Gnostic Christians.

The word soul to a Gnostic Christian who believes in a cosmic consciousness will see the soul as our conscious mind that gets uploaded, if you will, into the mainframe that is the cosmic consciousness. It is not a supernatural thing holding our consciousness. Soul is consciousness therefore natural. Since that consciousness can find and inhabit the greater cosmic consciousness, it is what Gnostic Christians mean when they say we all have a spark of God within us. That telepathic part of us can also find other minds and communication can happen but it is hard on us. My wife, whom I mentally touched once, called it an assault. Perhaps that is why we fear to both go within as Jesus taught. Apotheosis is violent and our minds may fear the truth that our higher minds can give. The third eye is just a window into that greater mind of ours and for it to open is not supernatural as we are quite natural and we do it.

Regards
DL