a classic love story

[cacian]

what would you say is the classic love story?


Romeo and Juliet?
or
Cinderella?


and should a love story that does not have a happy ending be called a love story?

[Frédéric Moreau]

I think that love story is simply that in which love is the centre of the plot. There are so many novels in which love has a primary role like for example,'El Quijote', but in spite of the protagonism of it, that is not centre. Or, as it is the case of 'El Quijote', the novel has so many centres.

[free]

Aren't they both classic? Irrelevant of their ending. Most writers think that the happy ending spoils a story. Be it classic or not. I think the opposite.

[cacian]

I think that love story is simply that in which love is the centre of the plot. There are so many novels in which love has a primary role like for example,'El Quijote', but in spite of the protagonism of it, that is not centre. Or, as it is the case of 'El Quijote', the novel has so many centres.

love is not love if it does not last right??

[cacian]

Aren't they both classic? Irrelevant of their ending. Most writers think that the happy ending spoils a story. Be it classic or not. I think the opposite.

the ending is what intensifies love.
if one of the couple dies then love ends there.
where is the love story in that?

[Frédéric Moreau]

love is not love if it does not last right??

I think that love is simply love, whatever its ending is. But it is true that in literature love stories somehow need tragedy in order not to seem sickeningly sweet. However, I also think that this is not necessarily inherent to a love story. I personally like those whose ending is more real, in which neither tragedy nor bliss overwhelm.

[cacian]

I think that love is simply love, whatever its ending is. But it is true that in literature love stories somehow need tragedy in order not to seem sickeningly sweet. However, I also think that this is not necessarily inherent to a love story. I personally like those whose ending is more real, in which neither tragedy nor bliss overwhelm.

how would you write a real ending?
and would that depend on the beginning?

[stlukesguild]

Lolita :D

[cacian]

Lolita :D

I find the title rather bemusing.
If it is a love story why call it a name of a girl?
consider Romeo and Juliet
that represents a couple and so it would make sense but then the end does not so much because love is defeated.

[Frédéric Moreau]

how would you write a real ending?
and would that depend on the beginning?

I think that I haven't understood you. Every ending depends on the begining. I don't plan what I write when I manage to write . I will show you an example of what I call real ending, me myself, Frédéric Moreau, when I finally meet my old friend and I say: "I have failed because of the lack of a right path", and he answers "me on account of an excess of rightousness".

Ps: I have translated the end of The sentimental education from Spanish, so excuse me if I have commited some mistake.

[cacian]

I think that I haven't understood you. Every ending depends on the begining. I don't plan what I write when I manage to write . I will show you an example of what I call real ending, me myself, Frédéric Moreau, when I finally meet my old friend and I say: "I have failed because of the lack of a right path", and he answers "me on account of an excess of rightousness".

Ps: I have translated the end of The sentimental education from Spanish, so excuse me if I have commited some mistake.

oh I and your English is better then mine don't worry.
do you have it in Spanish
I speak Spanish :)

[Frédéric Moreau]

oh I and your English is better then mine don't worry.
do you have it in Spanish
I speak Spanish :)

Me alegra en gran medida encontrar interesados en la lengua de Calderón y Cervantes. Aquí le dejo, como no podría ser de otra manera, la versión en español del texto de Flaubert. Antes no lo he traducido al completo por razones evidentes de tiempo y espacio, espero que todos me disculpen. La traducción es de Miguel Salabert.

"-Muy calmado me pareces en política.
-Efecto de la edad -dijo el abogado.
Y resumieron sus vidas.
Ambos la habían malogrado, tanto el que había soñado con el amor como el que había soñado con el poder. ¿Cuáles podían ser las razones?
-Quizá haya sido por falta de una línea recta -dijo Frédéric.
-En cuanto a ti, es posible. Yo, al contrario, he pecado por exceso de rectitud, sin tener en cuenta que hay mil cosas secundarias más fuertes que todo. Yo tenía demasiada lógica y tú demasiado sentimiento."

[cacian]

Me alegra en gran medida encontrar interesados en la lengua de Calderón y Cervantes. Aquí le dejo, como no podría ser de otra manera, la versión en español del texto de Flaubert. Antes no lo he traducido al completo por razones evidentes de tiempo y espacio, espero que todos me disculpen. La traducción es de Miguel Salabert.

"-Muy calmado me pareces en política.
-Efecto de la edad -dijo el abogado.
Y resumieron sus vidas.
Ambos la habían malogrado, tanto el que había soñado con el amor como el que había soñado con el poder. ¿Cuáles podían ser las razones?
-Quizá halla sido por falta de una línea recta -dijo Frédéric.
-En cuanto a ti, es posible. Yo, al contrario, he pecado por exceso de rectitud, sin tener en cuenta que hay mil cosas secundarias más fuertes que todo. Yo tenía demasiada lógica y tú demasiado sentimiento."

this a little harder then I thought but I managed. I understand and I am not sure I agree.
there is never the right or wrong way
what there always is the right time.
timing is crucial.
everything boils down to timing which is often linked to instinct.
I am a great believer in instinct and listening to our feelings and act upon as we see it.
that can only be timing.
exact is perfection and it works.

here it is about power and love and how they wished they related.
failing is blamed on too much common sense of feelings.
I do not believe we could ever have enough of these .
we have an amount of these in equal measures. that is how our mind and body are.
the less of these and the worse but the more of them and the better long term.
the reason these may come in too much is because we have not had the chance to develop them out or express them out more often and so when we get the chance they pour out in abundance.
that is not a bad it is a good thing.
ideally we would exhume of them our temper would recover and we would think more clearly.
in other words we should use them sparingly and everyday in order to air them out and we should balance them out for the better.:)

[Frédéric Moreau]

this a little harder then I thought but I managed. I understand and I am not sure I agree.
there is never the right or wrong way
what there always is the right time.
timing is crucial.
everything boils down to timing which is often linked to instinct.
I am a great believer in instinct and listening to our feelings and act upon as we see it.
that can only be timing.
exact is perfection and it works.

here it is about power and love and how they wished they related.
failing is blamed on too much common sense of feelings.
I do not believe we could ever have enough of these .
we have an amount of these in equal measures. that is how our mind and body are.
the less of these and the worse but the more of them and the better long term.
the reason these may come in too much is because we have not had the chance to develop them out or express them out more often and so when we get the chance they pour out in abundance.
that is not a bad it is a good thing.
ideally we would exhume of them our temper would recover and we would think more clearly.
in other words we should use them sparingly and everyday in order to air them out and we should balance them out for the better.:)

I agree in part with you. Instincts are probably the worst analysed side of human soul, that side of subconscious, that spurned world of dreams. I think that current society despises awfully what cannot be explained by the scientific method, it seems now that everything must be proved and thoroughly checked to be admitted as a valid assumption. I remember vaguely a book by Bertrand Rusell I read long ago, several chapters of it were devoted to this concern. I can find it later.

I disagree with you regarding your theory about feelings. Methinks (Is old-fashioned or pedantic to use 'methinks'?) that they cannot be submitted to measurement, and that the character has too much importance when we talk about the utterance of feelings. They arise so many questions from this subject.

I wrote a tale a year ago from which I quote this:

Se está apoderando de todo un nuevo totalitarismo disfrazado de irrebatible verdad científica y tecnológica que no deja espacio a la contradictoria naturaleza humana: somos imperfectos, lo desconocemos todo del lugar que habitamos y jugar a ser Dios y a transformar y obviar nuestra condición únicamente conllevará nuestra autodestrucción.

I am exhausted now, if you want I can translate it later.

Frédéric

[Frédéric Moreau]

I dared to translate it:

"It is getting hold of everything a brand new totalitarianism that seems an irrefutable scientific and technological truth which does not give space for the contradictory human nature: we are not perfect, we don't know anything about the place we dwell in and playing to be God or to forget our condition only will entail our self-destruction."

[cacian]

QUOTE=Frédéric Moreau;1264331]I agree in part with you. Instincts are probably the worst analysed side of human soul, that side of subconscious, that spurned world of dreams. I think that current society despises awfully what cannot be explained by the scientific method, it seems now that everything must be proved and thoroughly checked to be admitted as a valid assumption. I remember vaguely a book by Bertrand Rusell I read long ago, several chapters of it were devoted to this concern. I can find it later.

I am surprised at that. instinct is a natural feeling.
it is not the subconscious it is the upconscious.
why would anyone want to explain it?
to be instinctive is to be human.



I disagree with you regarding your theory about feelings. Methinks (Is old-fashioned or pedantic to use 'methinks'?) that they cannot be submitted to measurement, and that the character has too much importance when we talk about the utterance of feelings. They arise so many questions from this subject.

me thinks is just colloquial dialect. :)
a feeling cannot be measured but it can analysed by sense/instinct.


I wrote a tale a year ago from which I quote this:

Se está apoderando de todo un nuevo totalitarismo disfrazado de irrebatible verdad científica y tecnológica que no deja espacio a la contradictoria naturaleza humana: somos imperfectos, lo desconocemos todo del lugar que habitamos y jugar a ser Dios y a transformar y obviar nuestra condición únicamente conllevará nuestra autodestrucción.

I am exhausted now, if you want I can translate it later.
I read this and enjoyed it for what I have understood.
this is what I got from it:

science and technologic research is obsessed with paralysing a truth which does not allow for natural human truth/thoughts to take place.
we play god and we end up destroying ourselves.

I would like a bit of translation in a line or two if that is possible :)

[Frédéric Moreau]

Sorry, I was exhausted and I mistook instincts for impulses. I was talking about impulses and the unconscious world from which they emerge. How they have been often spurned as a source of behaviour.

About feelings I agree with you, that is what I was pretending to say, that you cannot trace a line in your heart to check if love has exceeded its normal state.

My attempt (I was seventeen when I wrote it -then all I wrote was quite dense- and it is taken from a long reflection, it may thus sound stupid):

"It is getting hold of everything a brand new totalitarianism that takes the shape of an irrefutable scientific and technological truth which does not give space for the contradictory human nature: we are not perfect, we don't know anything about the place we dwell in and playing to be God or to forget our condition only will entail our self-destruction."

I insist again on my being exhausted and struggling to be clear in a language I am not used to.

[Vota]

Stlukesguild, that made me laugh.