The Idea of God

[jajdude]

This has been on my mind a bit lately. I'd like an honest consideration of the questions. I suppose that is hard to expect when God is in the subject.

If you worship, what is it that you are worshiping? If it's an idea, have you called it something other than yourself?

The mind is very tricky. It can project many things. It is desperate to be secure, and can invent so much.

If you pray, what are you praying to? I'm not saying it is good, bad, right, wrong, or anything else.

Is it that what you believe is not just your belief but the belief of millions, and that you have been heavily influenced? This seems so obvious.

If you have faith, what do you have faith in? Is it something you say is outside yourself? Or is that just another projection of your thought?

Maybe it's all just worshiping yourself? Not you, the reader, but in the general sense. Is the worshiper different from what he worships?

[cacian]

god is a magnet for faith deluded activist. their mind is a godly warrior they forget there is life and people around them.
some are more affected then others the more godly the more inward thinking they become it is a radical removal from reality.
the point of life is to create god faith religion miscreate many aspects of life and turn them into stigmas and make issues out of them.
I don't pray I don't preach I don't believe god exists.
there may be something else out there but it is not called god.

[YesNo]

This has been on my mind a bit lately. I'd like an honest consideration of the questions. I suppose that is hard to expect when God is in the subject.

If you worship, what is it that you are worshiping? If it's an idea, have you called it something other than yourself?

The mind is very tricky. It can project many things. It is desperate to be secure, and can invent so much.

If the mind is so tricky, how do you know the mind is not playing a trick on you when you think it is "tricky"? All I can see is that different people experience the world somewhat differently. This makes it difficult to come up with something that one can identify as common sense because the commonality is not always evident.



If you pray, what are you praying to? I'm not saying it is good, bad, right, wrong, or anything else.

I recite mantras, so I pray.

Psychologically, one can say that mantra recitation to some Other is beneficial. It calms the mind and allows creativity to work. That would be viewing the mantra as just a projection of myself onto whatever fantasized Other I find interesting at the moment. That's a reductionist view. But why couldn't this view that this Other is a delusional projection itself be a delusional projection?

The only reason we might give it more weight is because culturally it sounds more scientific to call whatever we want to doubt a "projection", that is, today we like to rationalize our belief-systems with scientific-sounding metaphors or assumptions regardless of there being any actual science underlying those metaphors.



Is it that what you believe is not just your belief but the belief of millions, and that you have been heavily influenced? This seems so obvious.

That many others believe something should be evidence that there might be something, no matter how small, to it. It is the commonality in common sense.

The real question should be "to what extent are we isolated individuals?" We assume we are isolated individuals who can be "influenced", perhaps like a billiard ball hitting another billiard ball and exchanging kinetic energy. You are already on the edge of doubting this individualism when you question whether the Gods some of us worship are nothing more than ourselves. Continue with that thought: to what extent are the other people around us nothing more than ourselves?

I think the answer to that question is this: we are not isolated individuals and yet there are others that we can relate to.



If you have faith, what do you have faith in? Is it something you say is outside yourself? Or is that just another projection of your thought?


Again, saying that something is a projection of our thought could itself be nothing more than a delusional projection of our thought. That we can project our thought is not an argument against the existence of any external Other. It is just an argument that we can make mistakes.

In my case I recite mantras, at the moment, to Sarasvati.



Maybe it's all just worshiping yourself? Not you, the reader, but in the general sense. Is the worshiper different from what he worships?

This is how I reason that it is not just worshiping myself:

There are aware, conscious others (humans and other species) that we can relate to. These are others who are different in some way from us. To assume there are no Others with a higher consciousness than ours would assume that we occupy a rather special role as the superior consciousness in this universe. That violates the mediocrity principle. So I assume these others exist and my access to them is through my consciousness made aware through words, mantras, or prayers.

[jajdude]

"That many others believe something should be evidence that there might be something, no matter how small, to it."

I don't know about this. Perhaps they are all wrong. This is an honest doubt. The believer puts his faith on a higher plane, doesn't he? But what he believes is still something in his thought. Does thought separate itself into the believer and what is believed in, and call them two different things? Is that what happens?

[YesNo]

Many people could be wrong. However, just because many maintain something doesn't make it wrong. Also, I suspect it is as hard to be completely wrong about something as to be completely right about it.

[The Atheist]

If you pray, what are you praying to?

I've enjoyed watching the staunchly-christian crowds at Brazil games during the World Cup; when things aren't going well - as in their last game - tens of thousands of people are praying for their team to win. They are beseeching the creator of the entire universe to help their soccer team win a game, hands clasped together, eyes skyward, pleading for a goal.

At the same time, a mother in South Sudan prays for food and medicine for her starving baby to reach her through the war-stricken landscape.



Brazil scores, the baby dies.

Good question: who are they praying to?

[jajdude]

However strongly one believes in something, it is not something outside thought, is it? If the belief is not there, nor is the thing believed in. Is it? You might say it could be there or could exist independent of what you think. Perhaps, or is that also just a supposition. I think we need to find this out for ourselves, but I see no way around it. No matter what I believe in, it's still me. And what am I besides thought? You know, besides the physical body. After all, hasn't thought created the me, the identity, with all its beliefs? (and much more) Then does thought say, "Well, I am an entity separate from my beliefs and so on." Does our thinking actually do this? Does it create the self, call it the center that holds its opinions, beliefs, etc, and in doing this also separate itself into various things? The self who has beliefs, a particular nationality, belong to some religious group or not, who has memories and experiences? Isn't the whole thing the me, not something outside?

[The Atheist]

Isn't the whole thing the me, not something outside?

Sure it's all you.

You seem to have missed the enormous impact of culture and upbringing on individuals, though. Nobody finds god who has not been introduced to him/her/it/them by family, friends, or maybe even TV.

That's why churches have missionaries.

[jajdude]

Not missed there Atheist, so much as not really understood. That we are heavily influenced, perhaps entirely conditioned, is not an original idea.

I asked about the idea of God. I believe it's an idea. I'm not different from that idea. I have no position to defend. It either is so, or not.

I'm not interested in being anything in particular but it seems like it would be nice to find out how thought works and what is going on in there.

I don't think whatever is going on inside me is much different from others. Maybe a little.

[jajdude]

I don't think the idea of God is so different from the feeling of nationalism. Both are the 'me'. It strikes me as odd that the whole world calls itself by a label. The world cup plays it out nicely. The Brazilian, so sad. The German, elated. Who knows what it means? The 'me' glorified.

[caddy_caddy]

HI all,

This is a good question indeed.
I liked that you mentioned both " praying and worshiping " because there is a difference between the two.
Worship is the general term ; it includes anything that leads to Allah's path , for instance, any good deed is worshiping, etc..
Praying is the complete surrender and defeat of your ego and self to get peace by connecting to the source of peace that is Allah --One of Allah's name is the Peace
The direct answer to your direct question is then " praying to Peace and for Peace to get peace" and it is a Condition not an idea .

NB: My dear Allen , missed u and got a gift for you :)

[caddy_caddy]

Sure it's all you.

You seem to have missed the enormous impact of culture and upbringing on individuals, though. Nobody finds god who has not been introduced to him/her/it/them by family, friends, or maybe even TV.

That's why churches have missionaries.
lets check out Chester's opinion on this issue

http://www.clickhole.com/article/miracle-nature-meet-gorilla-who-keeps-declaring-i--933

[The Atheist]

Brilliant!

Not just funny, but proves my point.

Although I'm certainly open to an ape being god. I welcome our primate overlord.

[YALASH]

This has been on my mind a bit lately. I'd like an honest consideration of the questions. I suppose that is hard to expect when God is in the subject.

Peace be on you. There is nothing hard in this subject.


If you worship, what is it that you are worshiping? If it's an idea, have you called it something other than yourself?

Looking at things, one thinks about there ought to someone who created [in fact creation and guided evolution]. One search for this maker. One finds that maker has introduced Himself by revelation. Australia's ancient Aborigine had no way to meet each other but they all had idea of Super Being.

Then there are Messengers who taught way of morality and spirituality. Right of God and rights of people. The soul worship God and body joins it. The two love speaks. The bounties of God and benevolence speaks.



The mind is very tricky. It can project many things. It is desperate to be secure, and can invent so much.

God which speaks and answers prayers is reality not trick of mind.



If you pray, what are you praying to? I'm not saying it is good, bad, right, wrong, or anything else.

Praying to Allah; The Perfect Being, Has no associate, Who has all noble Attributes, has no weakness, Source of all Blessings.
https://www.alislam.org/allah/




Is it that what you believe is not just your belief but the belief of millions, and that you have been heavily influenced? This seems so obvious.

God is not new idea. It has not evolved because of fear or need or awe. It is reality. [You will not see anyone doing worship to lion / police officer for fear.]



If you have faith, what do you have faith in? Is it something you say is outside yourself? Or is that just another projection of your thought?

Faith in my Maker Who made and taught me, and to Whom I shall return.



Maybe it's all just worshiping yourself? Not you, the reader, but in the general sense. Is the worshiper different from what he worships?

Human is not God. God is from ever to ever, human is creation. Creation is not God.

Good wishes and have good health.

[YesNo]

I was looking at books at Barnes and Noble a few days ago and saw a book by Theresa Caputo, whom I didn't recognize, and then I saw it on the new book shelf in the library and so I checked it out: http://www.theresacaputo.com/

She is a medium who talks to those who have died, but what makes her unusual is her personality and how she describes what she is doing. She has puffy blonde hair and wears sparkling high-heals and a short blue dress. She's Catholic and not associated with a new New Age group and seems to have no interest in converting anyone to Catholicism. Her book is filled with "God" and "Spirit". She calls herself an "airhead", but what she says rings true.

What does this have to do with "the idea of God"? I think her idea of God, although it comes from a traditional religion, seems refreshing and authentic.