17th Century books of religious meditation.

[Capahorner]

I have recently acquired a French Catholic Book of Meditations dated 1656. It is written in Old French and Latin but not too difficult to follow.
The printer and publisher was the renowned Pierre le Petit, ordinaire to the King so this book may have been of some importance?? I wonder if it was the missal used in everyday devotions or was it for use by the clergy alone. I’d love to know more. Is anyone able to advise me?
The book itself is in a shabby condition externally but the pages are intact and show no signs of falling apart.
Thank you in anticipation.

[Dreamwoven]

That is a very old Book. It must surely have value. The King of England was probably Charles II, though I believe 1656 was during the Cromwell interregnum, after which Charles II was reinstated as King as if the interregnum had never been. All this is from the Wikipedia entry on Charles II of England (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_II_of_England).

I tried to find out more by doing a search for Pierre Le Petit, who was a major publisher of rare religious books. But I only came up with a post from a brief wordpress blog: https://hrs48.wordpress.com/tag/rue-saint-jacques-paris/.

This is the About page:

I am beginning an Arts Internship at the University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand. The internship has a practical, and an academic component as well as an overview . The practical component will be managed by Bronwyn Matthews, Special Collections Librarian, in the MacMillan Brown Library where the University’s Rare Books Collection is housed. The academic component of the internship will supervised by Dr Chris Jones, History Department, College of Arts at the University of Canterbury. The overview will be guided by the Director of Interns, Dr Stephen Hardman, who is charged with guiding all interns through to the completion of their individual projects.

It is quite likely that Capahorner is the person who started this blog. Hopefully, he/she is still around?

[Capahorner]

Hello Dreamwoven - yes I am still around but I have not been active since my original post. My book is very shabby now but I imagine that it was very impressive when new. There are still traces of gold leaf down the spine. I too researched Pierre Le Petit and it appears that the printing house was by "Royal Appointment" to the King. Louis XIV. Extraict du Privilege du Roy (Roi).

With the help of a French friend we are attempting to translate the text but the old French alphabet is difficult to decipher...lol.

Thank you for your interest and best of luck with your studies

[Dreamwoven]

It might be worthwhile getting it valued by a reputable dealer in second hand books. http://www.abebooks.com/books/old-books-antique-appraising-pricing/book-values.shtml. It might be enough to do this by email, at least to start with. Good luck!

[Jackson Richardson]

A missal is a book with the texts for mass and is used by the priest at mass. Laity my have missals to follow the service but not necessarily.

A breviary is the daily Latin services to be recited by the priest daily. A breviary with a set of texts in Latin, mainly from the psalms, set out by day (Sunday, Easter, St Joseph, etc) and time of day (Lauds, Terce, Vespers, Compline, etc).

You say it is a selection of meditations - presumably private prayers and addresses.

What is the title of the book?

[Jackson Richardson]

There was a very great deal of writing on prayer (or spirituality as it is often called) in C17 France. There was indeed a good deal of controversy about such matters - the mathematician Blaise Pascal was involved in some of it. De Caussade's Self Abadonment to Divine Providence, despite its off-putting title, is a very worthwhile work. In fact I must look at it again.

A Marxist might well say, and with some justification, that all this controversy about religious issues was an outlet for frustration as a result of Louis XIV's autocracy which did not allow the expression of political dissent.

[Dreamwoven]

Capahorner may not be around any more. It was his book that was mentioned. He has a now inactive blog (https://hrs48.wordpress.com/2013/09/12/senault-a-king-maker/) and I did not expect him to reply, and was pleasantly surprised when he did. The blog gives more information about him. I don't know any more than that.

Old bibles are items of considerable interest. I have a Polyglott Bible, English Version Common Prayer, printed for Samuel Bagster and Sons at 15 Paternoster Row (by St Paul's Cathedral in London) from 1946. Has all manner of information about the ordaining of bishops, priests and deacons, and much else besides.

But Capahorner appeared to have a more rare example.

The whole subject of bibles is vast and quite fascinating. It must also be so for other major religions.

[Capahorner]

Good morning Jonathan B. The book is titled MEDITATIONS SVR LES PLVS GRANDES & plus importantes Veritez de la Foy. As you can see it is written in old French and translates to "MEDITATIONS ON THE BIGGEST & most important truths of the Faith".
I did reply with a longer post but I think it was not permitted. I had to log in again so lost my original reply message.
Abandonment To Divine Providence is in Kindle form so I will order it. Curiosity has got the better of me. Thanks.
France is a very strange country. As you know it is secular with no State religion. However, out in the wilds (where we are) there is evidence of strong spiritual belief in Christ and an even more disturbing belief in Le diable ou de malchance. People are so superstitious.
Thanks again.

[Pompey Bum]

A missal is a book with the texts for mass and is used by the priest at mass. Laity my have missals to follow the service but not necessarily.

In my opinion, a missal is something that really belongs in a canon. :)


A Marxist might well say, and with some justification, that all this controversy about religious issues was an outlet for frustration as a result of Louis XIV's autocracy which did not allow the expression of political dissent.

A Marxist might say it, but I don't know with what justification. Religious fervor, including the long and bloody Wars of Religion (1562-1598), had been a fact of life in France long before Louis XIV. (Calvin himself was French, even if he did his most famous work in Geneva). I would probably tell your Marxist that absolutism in France had arisen (in part) as a reaction to religious controversies of the Reformation (that is, by the French monarchy's eventual embrace of the Counter-Reformation), rather than the controversies themselves arising from 17th century political dissent. Some of the devout surely did place duty to God before loyalty to king and country (I am an heir of Massachusetts Puritans myself), but much of that was in England, which as you know had (and has) a constitutional monarchy. Despite the odd subversive, France had largely crushed its Protestant problem in 1572. Pascal and the Jansenists may have been reacting to political frustrations, but I doubt it. They were elites in French society and would have had more influence than most at the time.

I would also remind the Marxist that the great spur to political freedom in that did arise from France (and like Jansenism, also Holland) during the 17th century was Descartes' rationalism, which emerged (in part) from the philosopher's horror and disgust at the religious holocaust of the Thirty Years War, in which he had been a soldier.

On another topic (but speaking of old Bibles and dissenters), I own a 19th century edition of John Wycliffe's 14th century illegal translation of the Vulgate into English--for which his corpse was dug up after his death and burned amidst every copy the Powers that Be could find. It is a book I treasure.

[Jackson Richardson]

I think religious controversies are about something significant. I was just speculating (or allowing my inner Marxist or Freudian to speculate) that human energy would express itself in religious controversy, as there was no other field available. I was thinking about Pascal and the Jansenist controversy. I don't know about the period in detail - probably the only works I've read are Pascal's Pensees, Saint Simon's diary (abbreviated) and Nancy Mitford on The Sun King.

(In saying a Marxist, I was probably thinking of Christopher Hill's arguments inThe World Turned Upside Down, that the growth of religious nonconformity under Charles II was due to the frustration of political hopes during the Commonwealth.)

[Jackson Richardson]

, English Version Common Prayer, printed for Samuel Bagster and Sons at 15 Paternoster Row (by St Paul's Cathedral in London) from 1946. Has all manner of information about the ordaining of bishops, priests and deacons, and much else besides.
.

The 1662 Book of Common Prayer is the Church of England's equivalent of a missal and breviary and all the other liturgical services. Although replaced in most C of E churches for use at the main service (thank the Lord) you will probably be handed a copy if you go to Evensong, particularly at a cathedral. (If you visit England and haven't attended sung Evensong on a weekday in a cathedral, I would recommend it,)

You can tell the date of the edition by looking at the end of Morning and Evening Prayer and the prayers for the sovereign and royal family. (The BCP calls the services Morning and Evening Prayer, but they are usually referred to as Mattins and Evensong.)

I've got the copy given to me when a baby for my baptism.

[Dreamwoven]

The 1662 Book of Common Prayer is the Church of England's equivalent of a missal and breviary and all the other liturgical services. Although replaced in most C of E churches for use at the main service (thank the Lord) you will probably be handed a copy if you go to Evensong, particularly at a cathedral. (If you visit England and haven't attended sung Evensong on a weekday in a cathedral, I would recommend it,)

You can tell the date of the edition by looking at the end of Morning and Evening Prayer and the prayers for the sovereign and royal family. (The BCP calls the services Morning and Evening Prayer, but they are usually referred to as Mattins and Evensong.)

I've got the copy given to me when a baby for my baptism.

I was baptised a catholic but have no memory of getting a prayer book. In baptism I was held by my Godmother, who was meant to care for me if my mother died. Perhaps my mother got something equivalent but it was never given to me later as my parents did not practise their faith.

[Capahorner]

Good morning. You guys appear to have two threads of discussion on the go. Your remarks on religious controversies and human energy interests me. Do you not agree that even today the same applies? I quote from Christian History Issue 71
"The Saint Bartholomew's Day Massacre began soon after Protestant Henri of Navarre wed Catholic
Marguerite of Valois. More than 400 years later, the prospect of a cross-confessional marriage once
again sent shudders through the upper echelons of French society. In the summer of 2001, Chartres
Cathedral was booked for the wedding of Duchess Tatjana d'Oldenbourg, a Protestant German
aristocrat, and Jean d'Orléans, a Catholic noble who would be in line for the French crown if that
country ever reinstituted its monarchy. But even though Jean is heir to only a theoretical throne, his
family opposed the marriage, fearing it would undermine their legitimacy. Jean broke off the
engagement."
Medieval paradigm carried through to C21 is beyond belief and, to me, a waste of human energy.

[Jackson Richardson]

I was baptised in the Church of England. It was the custom to present the baby with presents - I think I got an engraved silver egg cup and spoon. That was more a social than a religious matter.

Capahorner - you are right - Pompey and I were going off at a tangent. Sorry.

[Pompey Bum]

Good morning. You guys appear to have two threads of discussion on the go. Your remarks on religious controversies and human energy interests me. Do you not agree that even today the same applies? I quote from Christian History Issue 71
"The Saint Bartholomew's Day Massacre began soon after Protestant Henri of Navarre wed Catholic
Marguerite of Valois. More than 400 years later, the prospect of a cross-confessional marriage once
again sent shudders through the upper echelons of French society. In the summer of 2001, Chartres
Cathedral was booked for the wedding of Duchess Tatjana d'Oldenbourg, a Protestant German
aristocrat, and Jean d'Orléans, a Catholic noble who would be in line for the French crown if that
country ever reinstituted its monarchy. But even though Jean is heir to only a theoretical throne, his
family opposed the marriage, fearing it would undermine their legitimacy. Jean broke off the
engagement."
Medieval paradigm carried through to C21 is beyond belief and, to me, a waste of human energy.

Interesting. So Paris is apparently still worth a Mass (as Henri of Navarre is supposed to have said when he abandoned the Huguenot cause for the marriage).

[Capahorner]

Good morning. You guys appear to have two threads of discussion on the go. Your remarks on religious controversies and human energy interests me. Do you not agree that even today the same applies? I quote from Christian History Issue 71
"The Saint Bartholomew's Day Massacre began soon after Protestant Henri of Navarre wed Catholic
Marguerite of Valois. More than 400 years later, the prospect of a cross-confessional marriage once
again sent shudders through the upper echelons of French society. In the summer of 2001, Chartres
Cathedral was booked for the wedding of Duchess Tatjana d'Oldenbourg, a Protestant German
aristocrat, and Jean d'Orléans, a Catholic noble who would be in line for the French crown if that
country ever reinstituted its monarchy. But even though Jean is heir to only a theoretical throne, his
family opposed the marriage, fearing it would undermine their legitimacy. Jean broke off the
engagement."
Medieval paradigm carried through to C21 is beyond belief and, to me, a waste of human energy.