Was the Tree of Knowledge a Metaphor for Development of the Ego?

[SilentMute]

I was reflecting on the Garden of Eden bible story the other day. When I was a kid, when they mentioned that Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge...I thought that meant they suddenly knew how to do math or something like that. I thought they meant academic knowledge.

However, as an adult, I have taken a different interpretation. I admit this may not be the religious view. To me, the Tree of Knowledge seemed to actually indicate that Adam and Eve developed the Ego. They had no problem with being naked before. God didn't seem to mind it before. Suddenly, they become aware they are naked and wish to hide it.

This "nakedness" could have extended further than their flesh. Our Ego dislikes emotional vulnerability and encourages us to hide. The Ego is the source of many of our self-destructive vices and unappealing behaviors. Adam and Eve would have been expelled because with an Ego, they could not dwell in the Garden of Eden. They would fear the animals that were once their friends, for example.

Sometimes I wondered, despite what the bible said, whether they really were expelled...or whether their perception of Eden changed. After all, in real life, we can be blessed and still see our lives as a living hell? The Ego is responsible for this distortion. Maybe Eve always had pain during childbirth, but she didn't notice it before or had better coping skills.

This is just an alternative theory, by the way. Though I believe in a superior force...generally speaking, I believe religions are man's concepts of God, which I tend to believe are probably greatly flawed...and I also believe that religion has been altered quite a bit by politics.

[kev67]

I took it to mean that before Adam and Eve ate of the Tree of Knowledge, they were like animals in a state of ignorance, that behave by instinct. An animal cannot sin because it does not know any better. Once Adam and Eve ate of the Tree of Knowledge, they were able to tell right from wrong and so could be held responsible for their wrong doings. However, as it is impossible never to do anything wrong in adult life, that inevitably meant we would sin. There was also the Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden iirc. Adam and Eve were expelled because they would beome too god-like if they ate both from the Tree of Knowledge and the Tree of Life. That's my hypothesis anyway.

[cacian]

kev67 you have just pointed something really important.
there is no sin as far as animals are concerned. and so there could not be one as far as human are concerned.
as to the ego is there really one?
the tree of knowledge? I thought it was an apple tree.
how could a couple who were granted an eden could develop an ego?

[PeterL]

The story is completely allegorical and based on mystical experiences rather than on the physical world. The Tree of Life is very important in Kabbalism; it refers to Kundalini and spiritual development.

[SilentMute]

Oh, I forgot about the other tree!

@cacian--Well, I admit I'm going by the old psychological model (which I don't know if it has been updated). The Ego exists as far as it labels the part of us that is concerned with our survival. It is the dwelling place of our instincts and fear. Humans consider themselves accountable for sins because they have a higher developed thought process than animals (though frankly, this can be debated--after all, whales and elephants show signs of higher intelligence and advanced concepts).

As for how they could develop an ego....Well, they must have had the capabilities and environmental exposure (in this case, the tree). I have to admit that as sad as our world is and all the horrible things that happen, I have had much hope for humanity when I see how many people rise above their situations and become better people by it. Yes, I know there are plenty of people who self-destruct or become terrible too...but it is our resilience that I choose to put my faith in. Why evil exists has also been long debated. I personally believe it was purposely created for two functions. One, it keeps the physical world in balance. Two, I believe it is a catalyst for change and development within us. Everything good that we have created usually had its roots at one time in barbarism.

kev67--now I am curious. Do you believe that growing up we'll sin inevitably? Or do you believe it is impossible to be totally good? Though I've done some sinful things in the past, I consider my life pretty pure and upstanding now.

[kev67]

Oh, I forgot about the other tree!

kev67--now I am curious. Do you believe that growing up we'll sin inevitably? Or do you believe it is impossible to be totally good? Though I've done some sinful things in the past, I consider my life pretty pure and upstanding now.

TBH, I don't really believe much of it any more. My understanding of the Christian gospels was that you could sin in your heart, even if you do not carry out the deed. Therefore it was impossible to avoid all sin, almost blasphemous to try.

I think with traditional Judaism, sinning involved actually doing the deed, so it was possible to keep the ten commandments. There seemed to be dozens and dozens of lesser commandments in Jewish scripture. I cannot remember what they all are. Many of them were dietary. Maybe it was difficult not to infringe any of them.

Tell us about these sinful things you did in the past. They sound interesting.

(Unless it was working on Sunday or taking the Lord's name in vain: I am not interested in that. Also, if you murdered someone or committed theft, I would rather you not tell us. In fact, I am really only interested if it's about sex.)

[tailor STATELY]

In LDS scripture what is commonly termed "The Fall" was a blessing. From The Book of Mormon 2Nephi2 https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/2.23?lang=eng#22

22 And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end.

23 And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin.

24 But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things.

25 Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy."

One of our Articles of Faith http://www.mormon.org/beliefs/articles-of-faith states:

2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.

Other LDS references with regard to Adam and Eve: https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-6-the-fall-of-adam-and-eve?lang=eng and https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/moses/4?lang=eng

Also included in our Articles of Faith is 11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

In that spirit I respect the preceding, and subsequent, comments with interest.

Ta ! (short for tarradiddle),
tailor STATELY

[SilentMute]

Thanks for sharing, Stately! That is interesting! I've been curious about the Book of Mormon.

@kev67--uh, not really. I actually have lived a pretty pure life. How sinful I've been depends on how strict of Christian rules you want to judge by. I did plenty of masturbating and continued to do it even after I learned what it was. I stoled a toy car when I was a kid from a store. I stoled some money from my mom's purse. I'm guilty more of thinking about things rather than doing them. Mentally, I've been wrathful, envious, and lustful. Definitely guilty of pride too...and recently I've discovered just by how much.

But anybody who reads my diary or autobiography will probably denounce it as being more boring than watching paint dry even with these "juicy" tidbits.

[kev67]

Thanks for sharing, Stately! That is interesting! I've been curious about the Book of Mormon.

@kev67--uh, not really. I actually have lived a pretty pure life. How sinful I've been depends on how strict of Christian rules you want to judge by. I did plenty of masturbating and continued to do it even after I learned what it was. I stoled a toy car when I was a kid from a store. I stoled some money from my mom's purse. I'm guilty more of thinking about things rather than doing them. Mentally, I've been wrathful, envious, and lustful. Definitely guilty of pride too...and recently I've discovered just by how much.

But anybody who reads my diary or autobiography will probably denounce it as being more boring than watching paint dry even with these "juicy" tidbits.

Boring, five Hail Marys and be off with you.

[SilentMute]

:biggrin5: