Getting Poetry Published

[desiresjab]

The only ones who seem to care about poetry are the literary magazines and the New Yorker. I imagine most of us have tried from time to time, whether or not we made a concerted effort to become published.

Anyone have any interesting stories? Or success stories?

[Mohammad Ahmad]

Is it free to publish? Is it only for American citizens? Please if it is free and if there is a permission for others who aren't US citizens tell us or write down the link.

[desiresjab]

So far, I only send to those that pay for poetry or have a sterling reputation in literary circles, and who do not charge for submitting. About half of my submissions have been declined and half are still awaiting a decision. So far, all poetry has been rejected. I did, however, get one request from a publishing group to see the full novella of which I had sent the requested five pages. That lies somewhere between a victory and defeat until they get back to me.

Since I am writing a new kind of poetry, I do not expect immediate publication, but a long road of rejection until someone sees the light.

http://cliffordgarstang.com/?p=3348

[Whosis]

I have read that it is difficult to get a book of poetry published except through a small press as poetry books generally do not sell well. I have been submitting to literary magazines as of this year, and I got an acceptance to the online literary magazine Red Fez. The link is http://www.redfez.net/poetry/2024 and I'll also provide it here:

The Best Insincerity
by Benjamin Anderson

Flattery is best insincerity
When it is insincere to compliment
With gilded lies that hide the truth surely
And boast ideal or opposite extent.
The goal is without exact modesty
That no reproach should come of description
In overcompensating vanity
With yeas where nays proliferate station.
The face bulges; the waist transcends all space;
The knees buckle; and belches sure appeal,
But this one becomes testament to race,
A real charmer, godlike and yet genteel.
No sarcasm pretends so criminal.
Obsequious is praise for unequal.

[desiresjab]

Congratulations. It is no small thing.

[tonywalt]

I publish in literary magazines - 17 or so to date, most are print - a few ezines. I enjoy it.

[desiresjab]

I publish in literary magazines - 17 or so to date, most are print - a few ezines. I enjoy it.

Do you have some links to these publications?

[tonywalt]

Do you have some links to these publications?


just google literary journals and they will appear.

[desiresjab]

just google literary journals and they will appear.

All of the biggies, eh? How does one read one of your poems and know they are doing so?

[AuntShecky]

Keep in mind that many literary journals, especially those affiliated with colleges and universities, do not accept mail or read mss in the summer months.

[Lokasenna]

I must admit that I've submitted very little of my output for publication, but what I have I've sent into local magazines - a smaller audience, to be sure, but more chance of being published.

[illiterati]

Like anything, it's a question of research and work. If you actually want to publish, you should be familiar with the publication. Do you read it every month? Do you understand their aesthetic, what kind of work they support, and why?

Duotrope is a critical resource for anyone who wants to publish regularly: https://duotrope.com/

Huge database of literary magazines, with data on acceptance rates, interviews with editors, response times, and so on. Also provides a means of tracking your own submissions.

If you're trying to publish, expect rejections 10 or 20 to one, so bring your tenacity.

[desiresjab]

Duotrope sounds like a waste of money--one more outfit asking for $5 a month. Nothing is easier than keeping track of submissions on a spreadsheet, and it takes very little time. Their service is a phantom. Unless their notes are worth $5 a month to you, I would forget them. Next thing you know there will be an outfit offering to lick your stamps.

[illiterati]

i used duotrope long before is was paid, and thought the 5/month was trivial, relative to value provided, when they finally went paid last year. the keeping track of submissions is useful (especially when you have hundreds of pieces submitted), but this is secondary: what's primary is that it's the most extensive, easily searchable, and detailed database of contemporary literary magazines, with data about response times, acceptance rates, etc. that you can't find anywhere else. if you're planning not to hit-and-miss, but to send out targeted submissions and keep sending out until you get the acceptances you want, then duotrope might be worth it to you. if not, not.

[AuntShecky]

It's way too much trouble. I cannot devote valuable writing time to a process that depends on hit-or-miss (in this case, mostly miss.) My M.O. is to keep posting on sites such as this one until some publishing entity notices the claptrap and makes contact with yours fooly. (I say that, of course, in full awareness of the truism that doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results is a sign of insanity.)

So commit me already.

[Jack of Hearts]

If you've seen what those magazines actually publish, it's hard to say that they care about poetry at all.

Best place to find poetry is in the library. Best place to publish is Amazon.





J

[illiterati]

my mistake--i thought the topic of the thread was "getting poetry published," to which my reply--read widely in venues that publish poetry and do your homework about where to send your poems--seemed logical. but i guess jack of hearts has read all those venues (duotrope currently has data on 4915 lit magazines) and found them lacking.

my own, admittedly less exhaustive, experience led me to believe that the sometimes-insipid taste of editors and deadening effect of mass-professionalization of poetry writing actually increased my personal responsibility to read and search through the infinite slush of what's currently being published to find sympathetic venues and increase my own ability to fashion a voice that might cut through some of the deadening haze.

[YesNo]

It's way too much trouble. I cannot devote valuable writing time to a process that depends on hit-or-miss (in this case, mostly miss.) My M.O. is to keep posting on sites such as this one until some publishing entity notices the claptrap and makes contact with yours fooly. (I say that, of course, in full awareness of the truism that doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results is a sign of insanity.)

So commit me already.

It is more fun to post on sites like this whether one is committed or not.

[tonywalt]

All of the biggies, eh? How does one read one of your poems and know they are doing so?

I have posted them all in my blog below.

[illiterati]

more fun, sure--truer, maybe, to the insight that poetry is just as much about the generation of communities as... professional credentials (gag).

at the same time, it seems to me to neglect a corollary insight: poetry is about the generation of communities across time, and in order for that to happen, it has to tackle the question of reception--it has to go out into the world, there have to be signs and links and points of reference and presence that will lead readers back to you.

jack of hearts: "best place to read poetry--in a library"--just reading poetry in the library (certainly, we should do this) is a noble commitment, but i worry it has the potential to obscure the question of reception: those works didn't end up in the library by accident.

to take the most extreme limit scenario i can think of: emily dickinson. if ever there was a model--or a figure whom we take as a model, whose significance has come to stand as a model for--the reclusive, shut-in poet, writing poetry for an audience of one, whose work will nonetheless go out in time to have an impact, it's emily. and yet, even emily--maybe especially emily--was exceedingly canny about questions of reception, aware of the shape and demands and limits of contemporary publishing venues, of the avenues to readership.

take for example this (relatively famous) quote, a classic instance of emily-as-figure-of-self-assured-integrity-vis-a-vis-the-question-of-reception-and-publishing:

I smile when you suggest that I delay "to publish" -- that
being foreign to my thought, as Firmament to Fin.
If fame belonged to me, I could not escape her -- if she
did not, the longest day would pass me on the chase --
and the approbation of my Dog, would forsake me --
then. My Barefoot-Rank is better.


nice, right? she'd be right there with you, jack, turning her nose up at the idea of chasing after some externally determined structure of readership / prestige--the idea of publishing, of willfully shaping one's own reception, the poem of a life that goes out into the public--of pursuing that tack with as much energy and commitment as the writing of poems themselves, on this reading appears more like a form of prostitution than aesthetic commitment.

and yet--she wrote those words in the course of a lengthy correspondence with Higginson, a well-known literary critic and the single most efficacious and critical figure in securing emily's posthumous publication / reception / readership.

say what you want, but in dickinson--the limit case of the anti-careerist poet if ever there was one--we find a writer who is exceptionally canny, or at least aware of the realities, about the question of her own reception.

[YesNo]

To establish one's name as a brand one probably needs to have some poems published in these journals. One can then use that as a form of credential to encourage a potential reader to purchase a collection.

How many poems should one publish annually to keep this brand awareness alive? I suppose it also depends on which journals one publishes in.

[illiterati]

well there's the rub--i guess i look at publishing in--or at least deep awareness and knowledge of--contemporary poetics and publishing venues as a necessary but not sufficient condition for reception...

i see hundreds of "named" poets in these magazines, none of whom have any chance of being read after their lifetimes--or in five years, for most.

so for poetry to serve the function of establishing communities both locally and across time... i don't really know. i share jack's reservations about the machine of contemporary poetry--whatever will move it forward has to come from outside--it's just that i think sidestepping the question of reading and understanding contemporary poetry / poetry venues is an evasion of responsibility.

it's like jesus and the pharisees: For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Mat 5:20)

[YesNo]

I don't think one needs to read more than a dozen or two of these journals. Pick the ones that one wants to commit time to. These are the journals that publish other poets one would like to be associated with, or are available in bookstores or libraries. Then submit to them. This should be a win-win situation for both the poet and the journal. If not, the poet should look to more receptive journals or improve his or her writing skills.

Publishing gets one's brand, or name, recognized and gives one some experience reading other published poets. But how does one practice writing? That's where submitting to forums like this are helpful.

[illiterati]

sounds about right to me

[desiresjab]

I have heard of people making hundreds of submissions, but I must admit I do not know enough attractive magazines to make that many. I have sixteen submissions out since March and that seems like a lot. Some of the outfits do not take simultaneous submissions.

[illiterati]

Learning more about attractive magazines is where something like duotrope comes in handy.

I can also recommend the database of literary magazines at Poets and Writers: http://www.pw.org/literary_magazines. It has less detailed information, and the searches are less easily refined, but it has the advantage of being free--and it does have information on lots of magazines and prizes.

Although hundreds is a bit much (and honestly, I was exaggerating for effect there--I did have hundreds of submissions out at one point--counting by individual poem--but I'm under a hundred, right now), I do recommend broadening your submissions beyond the major names. You have the right idea to avoid vanity presses and places that charge a "reading fee." But there are many good, reputable magazines that you could feel proud to have your work in. And I've found that there's something about the submission process itself that spurs me to more honest revision, that helps me polish and select my best--and inspires to write more. And there's nothing like that first publication--so, I do recommend doing a little research--not too much, but peruse a few magazines until you find some poems that resonate with your own work.

Also, the fact is that many of the big magazines don't even read your work unless you have a name. This is one of the things you can read into the response statistics on duotrope: when you see a long list of "94-day form rejection"s, and the only acceptance is a "2-day acceptance--Congratulations!"--you know that the editors of that magazine are reading names, not poems. It's a discouraging reality, but at the same time, it can be a balm for the rejections. You will face an overwhelming number of rejections--this will only deter you if you go into the process expecting to be "discovered." No one's going to discover you--but if you're determined, you can make damn sure they have a hard time ignoring you.

In short:

1) make use of databases like duotrope or poets and writers
2) broaden the search to include mid-tier lit mags
3) expect rejections and keep sending out


Finally, if you really mean it, I'd be willing to look at a couple of poems and--maybe--recommend some venues. I tend to write more experimentally-oriented material, so I'd be more likely to have some possible good fits if that's your bent.

[YesNo]

At what point in the marketing process should one start creating ebooks?

[illiterati]

Couldn't say--I haven't successfully put together a book of poems for publication.

Just in terms of arranging poems, looking for serial arrangements, resonances in your own work that might build beyond the single poem: always, as soon as you write, immediately.

In terms of publishing... I guess when you have a collection you believe in, and there is a community (whether the community of mainstream poetry writing and publishing or elsewhere) that can sustain it; to which it might contribute; in which it might carry forward a larger conversation.

[desiresjab]

If you've seen what those magazines actually publish, it's hard to say that they care about poetry at all.

Best place to find poetry is in the library. Best place to publish is Amazon.
J

What they want are palavering poems. They do not want anything unless it palavers along and does not look or sound like poetry. It may not sound like poetry. It must sound like gossip palavering along, in other words it must be conversational. But even if it is conversational it had better not look like poetry on the printed page.

Seventy percent of the poems are incidental, that is, they describe some event, usually a long ago one when the writer was a child. It will often involve a memory of or a habit of one or the other parent or some childhood friends.

Sad to say, but this is mostly what they want. The guardians of poetry have thrown poetry out for prose with arbitrarily broken lines.

They love poetry, or they would not be working so cheap in order to publish it. The problem is their notion of what poetry is and is supposed to do has been corraled into a narrow stall. No matter which magazine I read this is what I see. Some of the poems are really good. They find a nice palavering voice that catches you. However, they are all alike in terms of their approach to poetry. Now that is a fact: they are all alike in the above regard.

[illiterati]

This is mostly what they want, the bigger names--which is precisely why you have to do your homework to find venues to which you'd feel proud to contribute. There are literally thousands and thousands of literary magazines--don't tell me there are none that want innovative work.

Hell, you can start your own lit mag if the venue truly doesn't exist. But I'm telling you, the venue for your work exists, you just have to keep looking.

Also, I will say that, although what you concisely (and accurately, for the most part) describe as "palaver" is the law that governs far too much of contemporary poetry, there are exceptions, even in the mainstream mags. There ARE exceptions to the rule. There IS good work being done.

For example, the poem below recently appeared in Ploughshares--a mainstream mag if ever there was one. I don't know if it's your cup of tea or not, but, to me, it cut through all the rubbish and made the whole enterprise worthwhile. I could cite many examples of work like this that is truly urgent, even in the sea of mediocre palaver. (For my money--again, not sure if this is your bag, but I speak from a pretty deep personal sense of contempt for much of contemporary poetry and its institutions--Poetry Magazine has been far more interesting since Christian Wiman had to step down. The new editorship, though far from perfect, has been bringing together some eclectic, ambitious, innovative issues--so, that might be worth checking out, though you'll still have to parse through the dross, as anywhere.)

To One Waiting to Be Born
by Malachi Black

1.
Know your origin: you are a token
of the afterwards of love. What flinches
in the ribbon of your utterly new blood
is nothing but the echo of a bed post—
pulse.
You have grown up. From filament
within your mother’s bulb, you have evolved
into a chandelier of bones, weightlessly
orbiting your portion of the womb, aglow
in skin that holds you as an astronaut’s
upholstery. Small ghost, your figure
is almost your own. You fidget, but
be still. Be whole. Rotate like a globe
until, too old, you can’t be steadfasted
by axes. Your center has already lost
its poles.
2.

Soon you will be divulged.
Good luck: you won’t be born as much
as you’ll be given up. And as you tumble
from your orbit toward this crib of sticks
and dust, be adamant. Be tough. All earth
is but a roughness underfoot. To be delivered
is too little and too much: it is the touch
that will disfigure you that you must learn
to touch. You will scuff and stain and ruin
like a patent leather boot, and stagger
haplessly through weather that gnarls
what is new. Your first face will be forgotten
as a field is under snow, and you will
let yourself be vandalized as all handsomeness
will. There is no balm for what is rotten,
and you will spoil like a plum, but still
wash every day and wash again the rancid
blemish that your body has become.
Stare into your hands.
How can you doubt that you are animal?

3.

This is your ontology: you are
because you must be someone’s child.
Be otherwise. Be wild: be stranger
and more formless than a boy.
Cast off
the membrane that has covered you,
unwind the muscle that encumbers
you, and rise:
twirl as a whirlwind
overhead, effortlessly aerial,
incorporeal, almost electrical—
drift as a bright curl in the bluish light
of sky: impervious, indifferent, unhuman.

[illiterati]

otherwise, I guess my question to you is: What, then? If not forward to the literary magazines you can fit with, then where? This is not an entirely rhetorical question--I speak as someone who has published (somewhat) widely in decent lit mags (though not the top mags), and as someone who finds the ultimate value of that to be limited. It's not really the kind of poetic community-building I'm looking for--it's more for instructors of creative writing who need to publish in order to keep their jobs.

So, as a genuine question--what then? where to? Here we are on this imaginary forum, dissatisfied with the institutions of contemporary poetry. What should we do about it?

[desiresjab]

I was sure to mention that good poems can be found in the major magazines, but are not the norm.

I am going to keep submitting to the major mags that pay money. If all the ones that pay convince me they are not going to publish me, then I will go elsewhere, but not until I am convinced. I expect a lot of rejection, especially since I write in an undiscovered form. There will be jealousy and envy and disbelief that this form was right in front of the whole world all the time and a nobody found it. This will not go over particularly well at first--with anyone. Too bad. There is only one discoverer.

Everyone thinks their own poetry is pretty good, because they understand everything the author was trying to say. How good is my poetry? I really cannot say, just that I have something new. That part is easy to see and know.

[illiterati]

the true work makes its own way, i suppose

[desiresjab]

I waited twelve weeks with a publisher who had requested to see the rest of my novella, to inquire as to its fate. Whoops! Guess that was not long enough. He wrote back and said there is still a big stack ahead of mine.

Does anyone feel I did not wait long enough to inquire? Perhaps I should not have inquired at all.

[tonywalt]

I would submit to as many magazines/ezines as possible. Most use the "Submittable" application- which is quick. 97% of poetry published is modern, so no need to submit the type of poetry discussed on the poetry thread.