The Value of Each Passing Thought

[jajdude]

Does each passing thought have significance? I have no idea. You can watch it in yourself. The ideas and urges just come and go. What is the importance of the chattering, talkative brain, that goes on? Is it that the mind, or self, or whatever, is restless, and reluctant to settle? Surely, I believe that this is certain anyway, in that most thoughts just come and go without much significance. They mean almost nothing. Then what is the purpose of most thought? Where is it going and what is its interest? It must be there for some reason. My guess is that it exists because we are neurotic. We have no clarity in ourselves, so this endless chat goes on in the brain. That's my guess. I really have no idea why this endless chatter goes on.

You should be careful not to dismiss what I've said as nonsense. Not that I'm original or important in noticing this. This is a true thing in your life, in every person in the world. We all have the same stuff going on.

[Paulclem]

It's me again - I hope you don't mind.

Are you engaged in a meditation practice? That's the kind of thing that a Buddhist meditator would look for - watching thoughts pass and realising that they have no particular significance. The importance of this is that so often we react according to the thoughts that might arise in any given moment without proper reflection on sometimes quite important events in our lives. Causes all sorts of problems as I'm sure you're aware.

Also, The Buddhist teachings say that we are all suffering from madness of various degrees relating to our imperfect view of the world.

[jajdude]

Hi Paul, we had a pretty good dialogue before about self-image. I posted the above one when drunk. Nah, I don't meditate. I like Krishnamurti, been watching videos, Read some of his stuff long ago. It's all pretty deep I guess. It's been a trying time in my life past few months, which I guess I'm seeking some solace from. I do spend a lot of time thinking of sort of deep things, they come and go.

It's easy to put "deep" things in words. Most of that has little meaning, because it's just a description. Though maybe the description can invoke something else? Sometimes I find it is pretty interesting to just stay as much as you can with what is directly in front of you. That is what your life is, after all. Much of the time of course we wander off into past recollections, regrets and stuff. Or future projections, our hopes and desires.
This looking at what is really going on in your life is sort of liberating I suppose. You can't move beyond it anyway, and there's no point trying. Or maybe it's just important to be aware, whatever that entails.

[Paulclem]

Hi Paul, we had a pretty good dialogue before about self-image. I posted the above one when drunk. Nah, I don't meditate. I like Krishnamurti, been watching videos, Read some of his stuff long ago. It's all pretty deep I guess. It's been a trying time in my life past few months, which I guess I'm seeking some solace from. I do spend a lot of time thinking of sort of deep things, they come and go.

It's easy to put "deep" things in words. Most of that has little meaning, because it's just a description. Though maybe the description can invoke something else? Sometimes I find it is pretty interesting to just stay as much as you can with what is directly in front of you. That is what your life is, after all. Much of the time of course we wander off into past recollections, regrets and stuff. Or future projections, our hopes and desires.
This looking at what is really going on in your life is sort of liberating I suppose. You can't move beyond it anyway, and there's no point trying. Or maybe it's just important to be aware, whatever that entails.

You're right about that superficial "deepness" that some people spout. That why charlatens get away with it for a time. Talk is pretty cheap.

I thought you must have meditated or read something to do with the mind. I think it's some way towards understanding what is meant by knowing yourself. Being able to understand yourself gives you power over those arising urges, impulses and thoughts that cause so much trouble for us. It's unusual to find someone who notices such things.

[jajdude]

I can't say I have any idea what meditation is. Is it something that helps free the mind or does it need to be free already to meditate? What does free mean? Is it that all the old stuff has been rejected or put aside, so that thinking is not tied to any particular place? There are deeper beliefs and fears and such that one is not aware of, I guess. Maybe people use meditation to uncover some of that. But meditation itself has an image too, many people have some idea what it is supposed to be, and they think it's something to practice whenever they have spare time or they schedule a time for it. They might say, I'll go meditate for 20 minutes now or something. I doubt any of that is the thing. If it is, then it's another practice or habit and maybe brings about some sort of calmness, which is better than nothing I guess, but there's nothing deep about it. It could be like prayer or a few drinks or a pill to calm ya down a bit. Something you use to get the result you want.

Maybe it's important to not have an idea at all where thought goes and not to look for any result. Our drive for certainty is strong though. We have well established identities because we think this makes us more secure. We belong to larger groups, the town and the nation, the church that seems right for whatever reason, all for this comfort of identity. Then there's always the shadow of fear all around this. As a particular thing, and you another particular thing, we think we're different. The differences are created by thought. It's really superficial it seems to me. The important stuff in our consciousness is mostly the same though, the fear, envy, sorrow, desire, and the identity based on the background of the cultures and societies we have experienced.

[Paulclem]

It depends who you ask as to what meditation is. Buddhist meditation, which I refer to because I'm familiar with it, is about examining the mind through a neutral focus - usually the breath. If you do that, then you can, with practice, see thoughts arising. That in itself raises a lot of questions about our mind - how can I observe my own mind and thoughts? - for example. There are, of course, lots of types of meditation. Many of them are about improving oneself - reducing anger is an example. It is not easy, not quick, but it does work with lasting effects.

Maybe it's important to not have an idea at all where thought goes and not to look for any result. Our drive for certainty is strong though. We have well established identities because we think this makes us more secure. We belong to larger groups, the town and the nation, the church that seems right for whatever reason, all for this comfort of identity. Then there's always the shadow of fear all around this. As a particular thing, and you another particular thing, we think we're different. The differences are created by thought. It's really superficial it seems to me. The important stuff in our consciousness is mostly the same though, the fear, envy, sorrow, desire, and the identity based on the background of the cultures and societies we have experienced.

This is true. The Buddhists have reduced the three main poisons to attachment, hatred and ignorence. These are commonly pictured as a pig - ignorence, a pigeon - attachment, and a snake - hatred. I used to wonder why a pigeon for attachment until one day waiting for the bus I watched a pigeon pecking at food right until the bus wheel was upon it. It just got away. I have since seen squashed pigeons just by the kerbs of bus stops where perhaps they didn't.

Anyway, here's a picture of the three poisons - I merely post this link for my own credibility. :D

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=ignorence+greed+and+attachment+buddhism&FORM=HDRSC2#view=detail&id=64E648A52280A25AF8D3BF2C268BDB549AD2A104&selectedIndex=2

[jajdude]

Interesting enough there Paul. I had never heard of that.

As I told you before, I like Krishnamurti. Of course he is long gone. I saw him in a video with a woman, Pupul Jayakar, yesterday. Many of these videos are not short, a good hour or so. She was quite sharp, and they went into many things. She seemed to be nearly on his level. But then there came a point, which you could see in the video, where he had told her how her pursuit was pointless. Tears were on her cheek. She was not a young woman. A very intelligent person, brought down by a certain new awareness, that put into the shade all the things she had done for so long. Then her sadness was also joy for learning something new. It was nice to see.

[Paulclem]

That sounds interesting.

Just to reciprocate an interesting story- one of HH The Dalai Lama's western monks worked on his meditation and tried to develop his compassion - bodhicitta it's called. He, despite being a Buddhist monk, was skeptical about reincarnation. He'd seen no personal evidence for it, and his intellectual honesty was such that - as per The Buddha's words - he didn't just take things on faith.

Anyway, his years of practice did not seem to be moving him towards a realisation of Bodhicitta, yet the older monks around him seemed to display this quality daily. It was then he realised that it takes a long long time to develop Bodhicitta, and that this must mean that those monks who seemed naturally to express it were actually living evidence for reincarnation. They had already had a head start upon him in former lives. A friend read this somewhere and told me about it a few years ago.

[Whosis]

I think most thoughts come as directives, whether to get out of bed or go to the movies, not necessarily verbalized as words. Then there are those times when one must speak, when words become more formative in the mind. However, I would say urges is what a lot of it is, just as necessarily as commands from the brain are to other animals. As to endless chatter, though, there are times when I find peace from thoughts, such as in relaxation. It's not easy for everyone, but there are certainly times when commands are not verbalized in my mind.