discipline and literature

[cacian]

discipline over matters of inner feelings. an expression bursts with liberation and yet condensation of rules follows. in order to say one lays. should the pen write and the mind fight?

what does discipline mean and does it derive from the word disciple?

I think humans in general are undisciplined unaware and in order to gain that clear focus of mind and etiquette one must let the word/literature disciple the writer and not the other way around.
we implicate language with heavy duty disciplines of rules and tools to tell us how to write. I feel it should be the other way around we must let the talking/writing do the discipline instead. it may just tell us something about us we are missing.

any thoughts are most welcome.

[hannah_arendt]

If you write, discipline is really needed. I am determined to finish my novel soon. I could have done it earlier but I didn`t have discipline. Now I regret it.

[JBI]

Literary studies is a discipline. Then again, many require such discipline to engage in it, as such, they are undisciplined in the enjoyments of the discipline, and require further exterior discipline to enter the discipline.

[Mohammad Ahmad]

do the two correlate? or should they break free from each other because a pen writes but the mind fights.
Hi Cacian;
To what extent do you think that your supposition is reasonable to be rendered?
A pen writes but the mind fights... Correct…


My general notices:

The discipline is morally correlating with linguistic; it would dive passionately to the linguist core to tell about his theories or hypothesis truthfully.
There is no study adopting the notation of (correlated) but either they would say (related).
From my simple view, the discipline is the nerve of writing as we consider it the procedural plan to continue our way as writers of literature.
Discipline is either system, method, field of study; therefore, I consider it as a nearer part to linguistic more than to be related to literature.

You have the right to take into my notice or to leave it out.

[cacian]

If you write, discipline is really needed. I am determined to finish my novel soon. I could have done it earlier but I didn`t have discipline. Now I regret it.

regret is part of learning. without it we are invincible. if writing makes us regret imagine what life can do.
doing it earlier takes time and time is at the essence. I do not think we are ready until we are ready. :)

[cacian]

Literary studies is a discipline. Then again, many require such discipline to engage in it, as such, they are undisciplined in the enjoyments of the discipline, and require further exterior discipline to enter the discipline.

haha and what a brilliant repetition of word discipline.
what is discipline in a simpler sentence please?

[cacian]

Hi Cacian;
To what extent do you think that your supposition is reasonable to be rendered?
A pen writes but the mind fights... Correct…
hi Mohammad I think my suggestion is reasonable in the sense that I noticed it more then I sensed it.
I discovered that language is burdened with idealist notions puritanical but not botanical. ie not reasonable. they do not reflect what the mind is capable of.
to impose a charter of cudoes on a language that is pluralist is to tell it to bend over forward but not backward inward upward and so on. it is not flexible and the so the pen writes on but the mind fights on. eventually the stress of its stood will bear its hood and that is downward.
it should be the other way the mind facilitates and the pen obliges. I tell it and not it. I am powerful then it.


My general notices:

The discipline is morally correlating with linguistic; it would dive passionately to the linguist core to tell about his theories or hypothesis truthfully.
There is no study adopting the notation of (correlated) but either they would say (related).
From my simple view, the discipline is the nerve of writing as we consider it the procedural plan to continue our way as writers of literature.
Discipline is either system, method, field of study; therefore, I consider it as a nearer part to linguistic more than to be related to literature.

You have the right to take into my notice or to leave it out.
what you are suggesting is a pure method of events. the language in this instance is methodist not experimentalist and that is what this thread is wishing to explore the mechanism of the mind and not the winds of language structure and methods.
I call it the compartmentalisation of the mind. it is a brick word not a flip heard the way language barricades the mental ability of the thinker writer.

[JBI]

regret is part of learning. without it we are invincible. if writing makes us regret imagine what life can do.
doing it earlier takes time and time is at the essence. I do not think we are ready until we are ready. :)

I'm merely Punning - as literature is regarded by many as the discipline of expressing emotions through the "art" of language. As such, in order to properly do it, one must be disciplined to the facets of such a discourse of communication (or Discipline). And in order to read it, one must be schooled in the discipline to begin with (disciplined to the facets of the form).

As it applies to the process, one must ultimately be trained or beaten by the process in either the receiving or creating ends. You discussing a sort of automated let the discipline talk for itself is a bit too modernist an idea for me.

[cacian]

I'm merely Punning - as literature is regarded by many as the discipline of expressing emotions through the "art" of language. As such, in order to properly do it, one must be disciplined to the facets of such a discourse of communication (or Discipline). And in order to read it, one must be schooled in the discipline to begin with (disciplined to the facets of the form).

As it applies to the process, one must ultimately be trained or beaten by the process in either the receiving or creating ends. You discussing a sort of automated let the discipline talk for itself is a bit too modernist an idea for me.

what about the content of the language? should that be disciplined too?

[JBI]

It is regulated by the rules of which we use to express content - it is also tied to the discipline. The same way that feelings are relatively limited to a small series (the Chinese have seven).

[cacian]

It is regulated by the rules of which we use to express content - it is also tied to the discipline. The same way that feelings are relatively limited to a small series (the Chinese have seven).

content is rule.
feelings and limits? I cannot not see that.
by content i mean the recipient of meaning. should that be regulated under discipline?

[Sancho]

I think human language chafes at the bit where rules and regulations are concerned, just as humans chafe at the bit where laws and ordinances are concerned. And most languages struggle to describe emotion. It's not easy to compartmentalize certain feelings into a word where in fact emotion is a continuum. When does anger become rage? When does happiness become joy? A very simple example of a lacking in English is the German word, "schadenfreude." We English speakers are familiar with the concept and know it when we see it or feel it, but we don't really have a word for it in English.

Cacian, I'd be interested to know if Russian has a word to describe that emotion. ( I think I remember that you are a Russian speaker)

[JBI]

I disagree. We know how to describe emotion, or at least what form emotion is (love, hate, envy, desire, etc.) - yet we struggle to find a unique way to express such feelings without being redundant. That's the author's struggle - to express the common in an uncommon way that still resonates with an audience.

[Sancho]

So you reflexively disagree, and yet after that, it seems to me, you agree.

[PeterL]

discipline over matters of inner feelings. an expression bursts with liberation and yet condensation of rules follows. in order to say one lays. should the pen write and the mind fight?

what does discipline mean and does it derive from the word disciple?

I think humans in general are undisciplined unaware and in order to gain that clear focus of mind and etiquette one must let the word/literature disciple the writer and not the other way around.
we implicate language with heavy duty disciplines of rules and tools to tell us how to write. I feel it should be the other way around we must let the talking/writing do the discipline instead. it may just tell us something about us we are missing.

any thoughts are most welcome.

Language is composed entirely of rules. One must be disciplined enough to use the rules. Words without rules are noise. We need discipline to be able to use language effectively.

[Sancho]

Language is composed entirely of rules. One must be disciplined enough to use the rules. Words without rules are noise. We need discipline to be able to use language effectively.

B.S.

Language is a natural. To have language is to be human. Rules are imposed upon a language in an attempt to control it. Much as dams and fences are imposed upon the Mother Nature in an attempt to control her. The natural evolution of the English language has been impeded by grammatical rules just as the Colorado River has been impeded by the Hoover Dam.

[cacian]

I think human language chafes at the bit where rules and regulations are concerned, just as humans chafe at the bit where laws and ordinances are concerned.

humans and barriers is not a hand in hand affair that is for sure.


And most languages struggle to describe emotion. It's not easy to compartmentalize certain feelings into a word where in fact emotion is a continuum. When

I am not sure I truly believe that. an emotion is a feeling and it is detected as well as heard and listened and shared.
I don't need word to have a feeling. I am a feeling. I see and I know.


does anger become rage? When does happiness become joy?
every word bears an entity of meaning and there is so much you can pack into a word.
anger is a reaction to an action or a feeling.



A very simple example of a lacking in English is the German word, "schadenfreude." We English speakers are familiar with the concept and know it when we see it or feel it, but we don't really have a word for it in English.

I do not speak German. what does the word mean?


Cacian, I'd be interested to know if Russian has a word to describe that emotion. ( I think I remember that you are a Russian speaker)
haha I am not Russian.

[Sancho]

haha I am not Russian.

Sorry, cacian, I'm not sure where I got that idea, but it wasn't meant as an insult. The Russian people have a long and deep history and I admire them greatly.

Schadenfreude in its simplest and most cartoonish meaning is when we take pleasure in other people's pain. But that doesn't really get at it. It's when we sort of enjoy somebody else's discomfort because of something they did - that was wrong. You know, they deserved it. Some dude was out whoring and now he has syphilis. Hahaha, serves him right. Some guy cuts you off in traffic and then the State Trooper pulls him over. Hahaha, give him a thousand dollar ticket. Hahaha, what a putz.

BTW, if you don't mind me asking, what is your primary language?

[PeterL]

B.S.

Language is a natural. To have language is to be human. Rules are imposed upon a language in an attempt to control it. Much as dams and fences are imposed upon the Mother Nature in an attempt to control her. The natural evolution of the English language has been impeded by grammatical rules just as the Colorado River has been impeded by the Hoover Dam.

No, the rules are descriptive rules. They describe how language is expressed, and language is expressed those ways, because that is how the brain is wired. The rules do not get in the way.

[PeterL]

content is rule.
feelings and limits? I cannot not see that.
by content i mean the recipient of meaning. should that be regulated under discipline?

I am content with rules
meaning is pasted within the rules
outside there is nothing

[cacian]

Sorry, cacian, I'm not sure where I got that idea, but it wasn't meant as an insult. The Russian people have a long and deep history and I admire them greatly.

Schadenfreude in its simplest and most cartoonish meaning is when we take pleasure in other people's pain. But that doesn't really get at it. It's when we sort of enjoy somebody else's discomfort because of something they did - that was wrong. You know, they deserved it. Some dude was out whoring and now he has syphilis. Hahaha, serves him right. Some guy cuts you off in traffic and then the State Trooper pulls him over. Hahaha, give him a thousand dollar ticket. Hahaha, what a putz.

BTW, if you don't mind me asking, what is your primary language?

oh my I see.
French is my primary language.

[PeterL]

discipline over matters of inner feelings. an expression bursts with liberation and yet condensation of rules follows. in order to say one lays. should the pen write and the mind fight?

what does discipline mean and does it derive from the word disciple?

I think humans in general are undisciplined unaware and in order to gain that clear focus of mind and etiquette one must let the word/literature disciple the writer and not the other way around.
we implicate language with heavy duty disciplines of rules and tools to tell us how to write. I feel it should be the other way around we must let the talking/writing do the discipline instead. it may just tell us something about us we are missing.

any thoughts are most welcome.


I just reread the opener and noticed the "undisciplined unaware" (which I made bold). It is my opinion that humans are unaware of most of what goes through their minds. In this matter the analogy with a computer is of some use. The conscious mind is like a GUI (Graphical User Interface), and the unconscious mind is the operating system. The operating system is running most things in the background, and we are only consciously aware of those things that the OS (unconscious) thinks it can trust us with.

Grammar is the collection of rules of logic by which we makes sense of language. There are certain basic rules that underlie the rules of spoken and written language. Some work has been done on the deep structure of language, but I have not kept up with that field.