Group Christmas Reading: The Dark is Rising

[TheFifthElement]

Hi everyone :D
I plan on re-reading the children's classic, The Dark is Rising by Susan Cooper, this Christmas. I would love to read it with company. In case you've never read it, The Dark is Rising takes place over the 12 days of Christmas and explores the pagan traditions and legends of Christmas against the backdrop of the developing 'powers' of a boy named Will. It is a children's book, so relatively easy to read, but also magical and menacing and wonderful. Please join me.

I plan to start reading on Dec 21st which should give everyone who would like to join chance to get hold of a copy. Please join me.

*sub-note: don't be put off if you've seen the movie 'The Seeker' which is truly dreadful and unrepresentative of the book. If you haven't seen the movie don't bother. EVER. It made me want to scoop out the memory from my brain with a blunt spoon.*

[qimissung]

I'll do it, if only I can find a copy of the book in time. :)

[MorpheusSandman]

As a kid/young teen the entire The Dark is Rising series was my favorite literature. I read the entire series three times and then revisited again in my early 20s. I haven't read it since, but I wouldn't mind discussing what of it I can remember. I think The Gray King was the best of the series, but The Dark is Rising was probably the second best. They are truly, genuinely great children's lit that probably don't get enough credit for being as good as they are because they ARE children's lit.

[TheFifthElement]

I have a feeling Qimi that you might just get hold of the book in time :D I am praying for snow, because somehow TDiR benefits from being read when the snow is piling up outside and you are trapped and, thanks to the book, totally menaced by it.

Morpheus you should join us. I re-read The Dark is Rising a couple of years back, and it's just as magnificent now as it was when I read it as a child. I agree, as a series it should be more widely known and read. It covers a lot of philosophical thinking, legends, myths, tradition and the idea of responsibility in such a grown up way. It's rare to see that kind of faith in kids these days. My favourite is also The Grey King. Year before last we were camping in the right part of Wales and I climbed Cader Idris and felt like I was entering my own childhood mythology, I had imagined it so many times. Sadly I didn't get chance to see Tal y Llyn, because the kids were tired, but perhaps next year I'll fit that one in. Anyway, it is always good to encounter another fan :)

I also have always had a fondness for Greenwitch, largely because Jane plays such a large part in it. Actually they're all really good books.

[Scheherazade]

I will join if I can get hold of a copy! :)

Hope it is not like The Giver series...

[Calidore]

I will join if I can get hold of a copy! :)

Hope it is not like The Giver series...

DiR is a terrific series. I read it for the first time about ten years ago with my neighbor's kid. I think it was the second thing we read together after Lloyd Alexander's Prydain books.

The first book, Over Sea, Under Stone, is actually pretty different from the later four (though still good). The series proper really kicks in with The Dark is Rising, which is the second book. I highly recommend reading all five.

[Buckthorn]

*sub-note: don't be put off if you've seen the movie 'The Seeker' which is truly dreadful and unrepresentative of the book. If you haven't seen the movie don't bother. EVER. It made me want to scoop out the memory from my brain with a blunt spoon.*

I agree it was a pretty bad adaptation (although there are some far worse - Beautiful Creatures for example) but the books are really good, I read them years ago (I think 2007) and have been meaning to read them again, so I will join if I can

[TheFifthElement]

Excellent :D it should be a great discussion (Scher - it is much, much better than The Giver). I'll set up a specific thread closer to the time. Looking forward to discussing this amazing book with you all.

[TheFifthElement]

5 days to go...

[Buckthorn]

I forgot to ask, is it the whole series that is being read, or just The Dark is Rising?

[TheFifthElement]

I was just proposing to read The Dark is Rising for Christmas, given that it's set over the 12 days (though very tempted to read the whole series :D)

[Buckthorn]

I was just proposing to read The Dark is Rising for Christmas, given that it's set over the 12 days (though very tempted to read the whole series :D)

I was hoping it would just be The Dark is Rising, if I remember rightly that was my favourite

[TheFifthElement]

It is the day and the hour, for me anyway, to start reading The Dark is Rising. Please share your thoughts here. Remember, if posting potential spoilers give a warning up front.

*opens book with gleeful excitement*

[TheFifthElement]

So I've just finished Ch. 2 and wanted to reflect a moment on the experience so far. One of the points I always forget, and enjoy, about this book is how you drop into the action straight away. Straight away there is a sense of menace, a sense of something a little 'off'. There is no real normalcy to offset it against, no vision of Will as a 'normal' boy, and yet there is the knowledge that all is not right. I was immediately intrigued by the 'Walker' and the significance of the rooks. I also love the language employed by Cooper throughout, it has a kind of mythical quality to it. Like this:


He was woken by music. It beckoned him, lilting and insistent; delicate music played by delicate instruments that he could not identify, with one rippling bell-like phrase running through it like a golden thread of delight. There was in this music so much of the deepest enchantments of all his dreams and imaginings that he woke smiling in pure happiness at the sound. In the moment of his waking, it began to fade, beckoning as it went, and then as he opened his eyes it was gone. He had only the memory of that one rippling phrase still echoing in his head, and itself fading so fast that he sat up abruptly in bed and reached his arm out to the air, as if he could bring it back.

The room was very still, and there was no music, and yet Will knew that it had not been a dream.

Beautiful :)

Is anyone else reading?

[Buckthorn]

I have started and read about 10 pages but there was so much work today yesterday that I didn't get time to read much more than that, I will be dedicating a few hours to it tonight though. One of the things that I have always liked about the books is with them being set years ago TV's, Mobile Phones, XBoxes & Playstations don't get mentioned

[MorpheusSandman]

I'm not reading as I don't have the books anymore; however, I'll be happy to comment/discuss the points others bring up.


Straight away there is a sense of menace, a sense of something a little 'off'. Very much so. In fact, I think this quality pervades most all of the book. One of the strongest aspects of the series is how The Dark, the unseen/unknown in general, the ancient mystery, etc. are constantly implied through the writing. You rarely have characters battling the evil forces face-to-face ala Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings; instead you have the characters living relatively normal, quiet lives in which the magical "otherness" invades in very subtle ways. I also love how subtly the series (and TDIR probably does this more than any of the others) slips between time and places so that we get a sense of reality in the series being this multi-layered thing, rather than having the "separate" worlds of, say, Hogwarts and Muggles.

[qimissung]

I've read the first chapter. All the little animals are behaving strangely. I have to give the young man credit for being much more observant than the average child. My favorite scene though is when he wakes up at night. Who among us does not have one memory of waking up as a child and becoming terrified that "something" is in the room with you? Only in his case, it happens to be true.

[TheFifthElement]

One of the strongest aspects of the series is how The Dark, the unseen/unknown in general, the ancient mystery, etc. are constantly implied through the writing. You rarely have characters battling the evil forces face-to-face ala Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings; instead you have the characters living relatively normal, quiet lives in which the magical "otherness" invades in very subtle ways. I also love how subtly the series (and TDIR probably does this more than any of the others) slips between time and places so that we get a sense of reality in the series being this multi-layered thing, rather than having the "separate" worlds of, say, Hogwarts and Muggles.

I think that's a really good point Morpheus. Much of the 'battling' is done silently, surreptitiously, whilst normal life goes on around the characters. In a sense that mirrors our own internal 'battle' to be 'good' (for want of a better way of phrasing it) which largely takes place internally. In a sense this creates a greater sense of menace as the danger is all hidden, but the stakes are incredibly high. There is also a lot of questioning around the nature of 'Time' as a multi-dimensional thing in which all times exist simultaneously and one of the 'powers' of the Old Ones is to see this and move through it at will (though not without cost).


I have to give the young man credit for being much more observant than the average child. My favorite scene though is when he wakes up at night. Who among us does not have one memory of waking up as a child and becoming terrified that "something" is in the room with you? Only in his case, it happens to be true.
Yes, it is notable to me know how contained Will is as a character, how he straddles the twin existence as an 'Old One' with his powers and responsibilities, and yet he is on another level a small boy growing up. It is an excellent coming of age story.

I have to pause to once again point out how the people who made the movie could not possibly have read the book. He is a wonderful description of Merriman:

Then the tall figure on the other side of the fireplace moved, bent, and lighted a long taper at the fire, and coming forward to the table, began putting the taper to a ring of tall candles there. Light from the smoking yellow flame played on his face. Will saw a strong, bony head, with deep-set eyes and an arched nose fierce as a hawk's beak; a sweep of wiry white hair springing back from the high forehead; bristling brows and a jutting chin.

Now in what warped universe did that description mean that Ian MacShane was the right guy for the role? Did they get the wrong Ian (I am thinking McKellen, more like)? Grr.

9212

[blank|verse]

I've not read the book, but it put me in mind of this song of the same name by the wonderful Mercury Rev (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgVoYONg8cE), which I presume was inspired in some way by the book...

I'll have to get a copy and find out for myself.

[TheFifthElement]

Anybody still reading?

[qimissung]

Yes, I am. I've only had sporadic access to my computer, though. Will say something more germane to the story here in a bit.

[Buckthorn]

Anybody still reading?

Yes. I missed a few days due to food, drink, family & presents but started again today.

[qimissung]

Hehe. Yeah, I still have relatives visiting. So one thing I'm noticing is how carefully constructed the novel is, and how carefully Susan Cooper put together her alternate universe and story. She makes good use of entrances (the doors on the moor, the compartment in the fireplace, the chimney flue, the skylight); people-the old ones who turn out sometimes to be people Will has known all his life; conversely, some of the dark ones also turn out to people he's known for a long time, albeit superficially. Roads also play a part, and that is a first I think that I have come across, a very clever device. There are many ways for Will to stay safe as he battles the dark forces. And I also like how she's take an old trope-the battle between good and evil, light and dark, and made it very concrete yet abstract. This is a very well-constructed novel.

[TheFifthElement]

I haven't had much reading time over the season either. Glad I am not alone :)


Roads also play a part, and that is a first I think that I have come across, a very clever device.

I agree, Qimi, that it is a well thought-through book, and there is very little waste. The thing about roads I think is referencing the idea of 'ley lines' which was quite popular in the 70's, the idea that certain very old roads had a kind of deep magic attached to them. It is something I was quite aware of growing up.

I love the chapter around 'The Book of Gramayre' which is so dense and covers such a lot of ground. I always feel terribly sad for Hawkin. One of the (many) things I love about both this book and the series is the way in which Merriman is presented as a kind of all-knowing and yet flawed and unforgiving kind of character. He is indomitable, harsh and yet ultimately protective. He is, often, quite hard on Will who he perceives as an Old One and not a child, yet in so doing this he forces Will to step up to his potential. It is something I often think about with children, that the more childishly you treat them the less responsible they will be and that one of the worse things you can do is deny them responsibility, knowledge and experience, because experience is what arms us against the worst aspects of the world. Perhaps I was influenced by this book, having read it so young, but it always seems to me that Will is what he is because he is allowed to be what he is, he is not protected from the terrors of the dark by ignorance and the agency of others.

Just a short musing there then :D

[Buckthorn]

I just finished it, for some reason I have found it very difficult to read (this may be due to the other distractions over Christmas) but set aside today to finish it. Fittingly it took 12/13 days to read it.

I really like the ending for Harkin (the good part about peace and the graveyard)

[qimissung]

Yeah, I haven't heard of 'ley lines' before, Fifth, although I am aware that people ascribe certain power to different places, like the mountains in Peru, etc. We even have, here in Dallas, the place where JFK was assassinated. I mention that because when I took an out-of-town visitor there she was taking it all in and she noticied that it was also the place where the town originated. A lot of things going on in that place, she pointed out.

Hawkin was the tragic figure in the story. I'm glad he got some peace in the end. I thought it was interesting that from his point of view his beloved master was willing for him to die in service to his cause. What would have happened, do you think, if Merriman had been more willing to explain to Hawkin what he needed? Would Hawkin have then been willing to accept that level of sacrifice for human kind? Was that a fatal flaw on Merriman's part? An example of hubris? Perhaps not a fatal flaw, but a flaw nevertheless. As with Will and his expectation that he be completely an old one (and disregarding the fact that he was still a child) he just took his need for Hawkin and used it. I think I would have been outraged, too.

[TheFifthElement]

Hawkin was the tragic figure in the story. I'm glad he got some peace in the end. I thought it was interesting that from his point of view his beloved master was willing for him to die in service to his cause. What would have happened, do you think, if Merriman had been more willing to explain to Hawkin what he needed? Would Hawkin have then been willing to accept that level of sacrifice for human kind? Was that a fatal flaw on Merriman's part? An example of hubris? Perhaps not a fatal flaw, but a flaw nevertheless. As with Will and his expectation that he be completely an old one (and disregarding the fact that he was still a child) he just took his need for Hawkin and used it. I think I would have been outraged, too.
I think the whole relationship between Merriman and Hawkin, and conversely the relationship between Merriman and Will is incredibly interesting. It is easy, I think, to understand and feel compassion for Hawkin. He is a man who loved and felt betrayed and because of that betrayal he spent a long and sad life constantly running and in fear. It is a terrible punishment for so seemingly small a crime and yet, as Merriman points out in the end, all the choices were his own. In a sense it shows how we live with the burden of responsibility for our choices, however seemingly small those choices seem to be.

It is easy, too, I think to be critical of Merriman yet Merriman too serves an unforgiving master (the Light) which I think the character of Will helps to shed light (ha ha) upon. In a sense Merriman and Hawkin suffer a similar fate; Merriman too has lived a long life, being the first of the Old Ones. He is condemned to live through the ages, never able to sustain a relationship because those he connects to will inevitably die and the nature of his 'power', and therefore responsibility, means that he continually has to hide or obscure his existence which is constantly in peril, and if he fails in his responsibilities the cost is the triumph of the Dark. The difference, perhaps, is that Merriman accepts and embraces the responsibility that comes with his role (though I think if you read the rest of the books you will come to realise that this was not always the case). One might argue that Hawkin had no need to be involved, though it appears he had a choice, whereas Merriman (and Will) had no choice. In a sense Merriman asked no more of Hawkin than that which had been asked of him, which is similar, I think, in many ways to a parent's relationship to their child (in that they expect them to grow up, take social responsibility, etc). On the other hand Merriman held tools that Hawkin did not, and perhaps this was the flaw that Merriman forgot to anticipate which brought Hawkin to his act of betrayal. I always found it interesting that in spite of Merriman's powers (or perhaps because of) he remains a flawed person, that he is capable of making mistakes and those mistakes have terrible consequences. I think he would be too 'powerful' a character in the absence of this.

[Scheherazade]

I could start only yesterday and finished the first day (Will's birthday). Enjoying it much more than The Giver and the story reminds me of Ocean at the End of the Lane, which I read couple of months ago. However, Cooper's writing much more engaging so far.

Again and again, I find that I am not a fan of fantasy. In general, I find it difficult to get into such books.

I wouldn't pick MacShane; wouldn't pick McKellen either because he has been in so many fantasy movies that I am tired of seeing him in every fantasy-based movie. Will have to give this some serious thought! :D

[TheFifthElement]

Scher, it is much better than Ocean at the End of the Lane. I quite enjoy Gaiman, but he is more of a middleweight writer than Cooper. I can understand your issues with fantasy. I think The Dark is Rising Sequence is what propelled me into a relationship with fantasy which I have now grown out of, but there is something a bit deeper to TDiR in the way it weaves real myths and legends into its storyline.

I'd love to hear who'd you'd cast as Merriman. It is a most important issue (but definitely not Ian McShane, right? What were they thinking?)