Why did Jupiter want to destroy mankind?

[krishna_lit]

I was reading Greek mythologies, which I'm very much interested in. And when I was reading about Prometheus, it was mentioned that Jupiter, after defeating Titans, also wanted to destroy the whole of Mankind, because it is only a weak race. But Jupiter is the greatest God in the whole of the Greek mythologies.
How come someone with so bad a judgement towards weak races, such as the Mankind, come to be worshiped as such a mighty God?

[JCamilo]

Wanting to destroy mankind somehow make him less mighty? Imagine that God in the bible. He made the flood to destroy humankind too. In the end there will be some apokalipse... Less mighty?

Anyways, Greek-roman mythology is based on circles of destruction-recreation, Zeus wants to destroy aspect of mankind, not all mankind.Plus, it is not a weaker race as our racism, in this case, humans are a lot off weaker than gods or titans and that was not prejudice.

[krishna_lit]

Wanting to destroy mankind somehow make him less mighty?

Doesn't it???!!! Not just that, the Pandora box thing too.. Why would God try to have his revenge on Prometheus for doing something as great as giving fire(light) to the Mankind?

[PeterL]

I was reading Greek mythologies, which I'm very much interested in. And when I was reading about Prometheus, it was mentioned that Jupiter, after defeating Titans, also wanted to destroy the whole of Mankind, because it is only a weak race. But Jupiter is the greatest God in the whole of the Greek mythologies.
How come someone with so bad a judgement towards weak races, such as the Mankind, come to be worshiped as such a mighty God?

Because He is the greatest of Gods, but humans were not his; they wee created earlier. He probably would have made his own version, if he had destroyed humans.

You shouldn't take Greek mythology too seriously. It was developed over a ratherlong time byt different people who made the stories for different reasons.

[luhsun]

Matarisvan legend in the vedas/the fire growing in the mother? Jesus as prometheus's analog, the metaphorical mother defending against the father/zeus

[PeterL]

Matarisvan legend in the vedas/the fire growing in the mother? Jesus as prometheus's analog, the metaphorical mother defending against the father/zeus

Jesus is from a quite different tradition, but the Jesus myth was largely borrowed from Mithraism.

[JCamilo]

Doesn't it???!!! Not just that, the Pandora box thing too.. Why would God try to have his revenge on Prometheus for doing something as great as giving fire(light) to the Mankind?

How come? Is he less powerful? And Pandora box? Eden's apple? That made Yaveh less mighty? And his punishment to Prometheus (less a revenge) was his torture.

Luhsun, I can even imagine that Jesus is bringing "fire" to mortals, but he is bringing fire from God, his father, who protects and guide him all the time. Mary barelly do anything at all, much less protecting him.

[luhsun]

Jesus is the mum protecting us from god

[JCamilo]

That is weird. Jesus is not the mother and he does not 'protect" us from God, he reinforces God's. You are saying too much in too little.

[luhsun]

Of course i am not disputing religious beliefs. The thread was on prometheus who created men from clay, the same task Jehovah did. But God found adam and eve wanting. The fire of knowledge mayhaps be likened to the forbidden apple? Jesus redeeming us by dying on the cross and spiked in the tummy by the romans surely sounded similar to prometheus chained to the rocks and having the 'roman' eagle pecking his liver? Psychonalytically prometheus was the mother who give birth to us and protect us against the patriachal father that was zeus who also sounded a bit like moses' God?

[PeterL]

Of course i am not disputing religious beliefs. The thread was on prometheus who created men from clay, the same task Jehovah did. But God found adam and eve wanting. The fire of knowledge mayhaps be likened to the forbidden apple? Jesus redeeming us by dying on the cross and spiked in the tummy by the romans surely sounded similar to prometheus chained to the rocks and having the 'roman' eagle pecking his liver? Psychonalytically prometheus was the mother who give birth to us and protect us against the patriachal father that was zeus who also sounded a bit like moses' God?

No, Jehovah did not create man from clay. That was done by the Elohim or an unspecified one of them. Elohim is a plural and is generally used in the Old Testament to mean the Gods and Goddesses collectively. You have to remember that a large part of the OT is about polytheism.

Smashing together Jewish mythology and Greek mythology won't provide any useful information; the two a separate and different traditions; although there are some parallels, because they were dreamed up by humans.

[JCamilo]

Yes, the steal of Fire is more like the Adam-eve fruit case. And prometheus works as a trickester, challenging Zeus/Yaweh power. Jesus is like 1000 years apart of it, almost non-mythological. You do not have Prometheus returning to life, which is Jesus. Also, Prometheus didnt create humans, did he? His brother did.

[luhsun]

My version was that prometheus created man and athena breathed life, ala the holy spirit -muddied the picture further...go figure!

[JCamilo]

:D

Read Hesiod, you may find interesting.

[luhsun]

Jcamilo- please elaborate the poet hesiod's tale. Epimetheus didnt create man. Prometheus did- first physically by fashioning man out of clay, and secondly (psychologically) by making man stand upright, equal to the gods with the intellect to use fire.

[JBI]

No, Jehovah did not create man from clay. That was done by the Elohim or an unspecified one of them. Elohim is a plural and is generally used in the Old Testament to mean the Gods and Goddesses collectively. You have to remember that a large part of the OT is about polytheism.

Smashing together Jewish mythology and Greek mythology won't provide any useful information; the two a separate and different traditions; although there are some parallels, because they were dreamed up by humans.

You are misunderstanding the term Elohim - grammatically it is used singularly, while being a plural world. The general scanning of the word by Rabbis is generally a sort of "godliness" within the entity of god, god being everything and abundant in form, but singular in entity. Hebrew Grammar is clear on the singularity of the noun though, and on the masculinity of the entity.

English, lacking gender and much of the inflection of Hebrew does not make this clear, whereas Hebrew does.

[cacian]

i'll hazard it a guess and say that he wanted to destroy mankind but he could not destroy himself, he was too frail with the idea.

[luhsun]

A facetious yet possibly logically truthful answer to the threadstarter's question/cacian's comment : he was too busy gallivating with the various female mortals behind hera's back-half pf humanity still could 'serve' him after all.

[JCamilo]

Jcamilo- please elaborate the poet hesiod's tale. Epimetheus didnt create man. Prometheus did- first physically by fashioning man out of clay, and secondly (psychologically) by making man stand upright, equal to the gods with the intellect to use fire.

No, no Luhsun, Hesiod is not about the mankind creation, but about the role of Prometheus as trickster/challenger. I do not recall the man creation myth in Hesiod or if he mentions it, but he is source for the fire thievery and mostly the ox sacrifice.

[luhsun]

In your post 925am yesterday, you, jcamilo asserted that prometheus did not create man but his brother (epimethus ) did. Then you off-tracked by referring to hesiod.. which told the story of the oxen sacrifice/theft of fire.
The creation allusion was in plato's protagoras.. but looking at the context, it was just a fact twisted by socrates to win the argument

[JCamilo]

Off-tracked? Prometheus as a trickester is the answer to his nature (not as a Jesus). Since you mentioned The Garden of Eden, I mentioned Satan hole, it is more suited to look Prometheus as a trickester as In Hesiod. If Epimeteus didnt create, so it was my bad memory. Greeks do not have a single myth for this, so I guess Socrates can win the argument without worring with facts :D

[luhsun]

The forbidden apple part yes, as an allusion to the forbidden fire but a trickster who can cheat the all powerful zeus is as close to my heart as a taoist adherent.

[JCamilo]

do you like a taoist adherent?

[luhsun]

Jcamilo, I am uncommitted and am not into all the mumbo-jumbos a real taoist swears by. So i am not a taoist. But yes, i do smile at the taoist resourcefulness in whipping the rain god when it failed to rain.

[JBI]

Seems like nobody reads the classics properly. As the cycle goes, the child overthrows the father. So Zeus father overthrew his dad, and Zeus overthrew his, so knowing the prophetic line, Zues sees it coming - and with the sinning against the gods, and the gift of fire, they pose the logical threat - hence why Zeus is not Achilles father - knowing that Achilles will be able to overthrow him - therefore he gives Thetis to Peleus and doesn't take her himself - knowing the outcome.

There is this growing trend in the Greek cycles - the son overthrows the dad, and the dad is fearful - but the human age seems to take a distance to it - preferring to punish hubris, knowing the outcomes - such as Jove's wrath for being slighted.

[cacian]

Jcamilo, I am uncommitted and am not into all the mumbo-jumbos a real taoist swears by. So i am not a taoist. But yes, i do smile at the taoist resourcefulness in whipping the rain god when it failed to rain.

they whip the rain god? they do? amazing!

[luhsun]

Jdi, thetis was prophesized to give birth to a son greater than the father but there was no prophecy of achilles overthrowing zeus. Only poisedon and zeus chickened out of bedding thetis.
Perhaps you meant metis, the giant titan, also mum of athena. The prophecy was after athena, another son would be born, overcoming zeus. Zeus tricked metis to transform into a fly and swallowed her and the fetal athena. Hephaetus or prometheus struck zeus on the head and freed the grown fully armored athena.
The other prometheus prophecy of a greater son was heracles who was the only one who could save the olympian gods after the titans broke free from the prison tartarus and besieged olympus. No swallowing stuff here, only a greater son who saved zeus' backside by shooting the giant with an arrow tipped with hydra's poison.

[JBI]

Jdi, thetis was prophesized to give birth to a son greater than the father but there was no prophecy of achilles overthrowing zeus. Only poisedon and zeus chickened out of bedding thetis.
Perhaps you meant metis, the giant titan, also mum of athena. The prophecy was after athena, another son would be born, overcoming zeus. Zeus tricked metis to transform into a fly and swallowed her and the fetal athena. Hephaetus or prometheus struck zeus on the head and freed the grown fully armored athena.
The other prometheus prophecy of a greater son was heracles who was the only one who could save the olympian gods after the titans broke free from the prison tartarus and besieged olympus. No swallowing stuff here, only a greater son who saved zeus' backside by shooting the giant with an arrow tipped with hydra's poison.

Thetis as well, so he does not bed her - it is not prophesied that he will overthrow, but it is a general fear - Athena is the same, being digested upon birth, but I guess her gender prohibits her from overthrowing him.

[luhsun]

The heracles story is an interesting father son dyad. Zeus overcame the fear of forced abdication. He was a supportive father to heracles, even allowing heracles to free prometheus from the chains and kill the eagle. Was it a promotional gimmick by daddy to popularise heracles? Or was it to get the secrets from prometheus on how to steal the golden apple?

[JBI]

The heracles story is an interesting father son dyad. Zeus overcame the fear of forced abdication. He was a supportive father to heracles, even allowing heracles to free prometheus from the chains and kill the eagle. Was it a promotional gimmick by daddy to popularise heracles? Or was it to get the secrets from prometheus on how to steal the golden apple?

Herakles is given such freedoms because he lacks the hubris of other heroes, like Theseus. His general characterization seems to be stupid and in favor of the gods, in contrast to the aesthetic of going against the gods, which is both highly feared, yet worshiped.

However, the big problem we have with Greek myths is the lack of codification - almost all stories are regional, and unstable, with earlier stories melding into later ones. Homer's Gods are not the same as Aeschylus's as these stories were orally evolving over centuries, and crossing with various foreign and different interpretations - the general layout of worship based on regional identity also had strange ways of bending things.

The flood mythology of Greek culture is a testament to this - so we have the danger of reading Theogony and then thinking we understand the mythological creation, but reading Homer just shows there is no correct version.

[luhsun]

Heracles lacking hubris-@jdi, what do you think this lack of ambition is caused by?
Until this statement of yours, i was under the impression that heracles was strong, courageous and ingenious. Ingenious, because of the way he tricked atlas into holding back the sky, the cauterization of hydra's sprouting cut heads(or was it iolaus' idea?), the diversion of the river to clean the massive stables etc.
Looking back, it is possible he might be a borderline mental retardation ala forrest gump- medically supported by his antenatal risk factors conceived a superfecund twin whom mother had a difficult delivery and postnatal abandonment in the wilderness etc.
His violent temper killing his music teacher and his own children might be due to epileptic psychosis, which is more common in those with mental retardation.
However, i could not find any text that heracles was a lovable strong idiot.