Þrymskviða: An Old Norse Comic Poem

[Lokasenna]

This year, for the first time, I am actually teaching directly on my own topic of Old Norse literature. Not only is this a wonderful opportunity to see fresh, new students engaging with this wonderful but little known material, but it is also an excuse for me to really get to grips with the poetry. This means, of course, translating them - and whilst I'm at it, I thought it might be quite nice for me to post my translations up here in case anyone was interested. I'm also doing a brief running commentary on each stanza, which folks here on LitNet might find useful.

First up is Þrymskviða ('The Poem of Þrymr'), a comic masterpiece in which the god Thor (or Þórr, as he will be called from here on out) must disguise himself as the goddess Freyja and offer to marry a giant in order to retrieve his stolen hammer - as you might imagine, there are a lot of jokes at the expense of his masculinity. Like most eddic poetry, it is found only in one manuscript: the Codex Regius. This manuscript was composed in the 1270s, though the poems it contains are likely to be considerably older. Interestingly, this story is not referenced in Snorri's prose Edda, which could suggest that it is quite a late poem. What we can say is that it was enormously popular, being retold and reinvented in the ballad, fairytale and folksong traditions of northern Europe for centuries afterwards.

As ever, I'm very happy to answer any questions anyone might have on Old Norse matters...

On with the poem!

[Lokasenna]

1. Reiðr var þa Ving-Þórr er hann vaknaði
ok sins hamars um saknaði;
skegg nam at hrista, sk†r nam at dýja,
réð Jarðar burr um at þreifask.

1. Ving-Þórr was angry when he awoke
and found his hammer gone;
he shakes his beard, he shakes his hair,
the son of J†rð began to grope about himself.

2. Ok hann þat orða alls fyst um kvað:
‘Heyrðu nú, Loki, hvat ek nú mæli,
er engi veit jarðar hvergi
né upphimins: Áss er stolinn hamri!’

2. And he spoke these first of all words:
‘Listen now, Loki, to what I say,
what no one on earth nor
in the heavens knows: the Áss is robbed of his hammer!’

3. Gengu þeir fagra Freyju túna,
ok hann þat orða alls fyrst um kvað:
‘Muntu mér, Freyja, fjaðrhams ljá,
ef ek minn hamar mættak hitta?’

3. They went to the beautiful abode of Freyja,
and he spoke these first of all words:
‘Will you lend me, Freyja, your feather-shape,
so that I might find my hammer?’

4. Freyja kvað:
‘Þó mynda ek gefa þér, þótt ór gulli væri,
ok þó selja, at væri ór silfri.’

4. Freyja said:
‘I would give it to you, though it were made from gold;
I would lend it to you, though it were made from silver.’

5. Fló þá Loki, fjaðrhamr dunði,
unz fyr útan kom Ása garða
ok fyr innan kom j†tna heima.

5. Then Loki flew, the feather-shape whirled,
and went out of the settlements of the Æsir,
and came into the homes of the giants.

6. Þrymr sat á haugi, þursa dróttinn,
greyjum sínum gullb†nd snøri
ok m†rum sínum m†n jafnaði.

6. Þrymr sat on a mound, the lord of the giants,
he wove gold bands around his *****es
and combed the manes of his horses.

7. Þrymr kvað:
'Hvat er með Ásum? Hvat er með álfum?
Hví ertu einn kominn í J†tunheima?'

7. Þrymr said:
'How is it with the Æsir? How is it with the elves?
Why have you come alone to Jötunheimr?'

8. 'Illt er með Ásum, illt er með álfum;
hefir þú Hlórriða hamar um fólginn?'

8. 'It is awful with the Æsir, it is awful with the elves;
have you Hlórriði's hidden hammer?'

9. 'Ek hefi Hlórriða hamar um fólginn
átta r†stum fyr j†rð neðan;
hann engi maðr aptr um heimtir,
nema fœri mér Freyju at kvæn.'

9. 'I have Hlórriði's hidden hammer
eight leagues below the earth;
no man shall get it back
unless he brings me Freyja as a bride.'

10. Fló þá Loki, fjaðrhamr dunði,
unz fyr útan kom j†tna heima
ok fyr innan kom Ása garða;
mœtti hann Þór miðra garða,
ok þat hann orða alls fyrst um kvað:

10. Then Loki flew, the feather-shape whirled,
and went out of the homes of the giants,
and came into the settlements of the Æsir;
he met Þórr in the middle of those lands,
and he spoke these first of all words:

11. 'Hefir þú erindi sem erfiði?
Segðu á lopti l†ng tíðindi;
opt sitjanda s†gur um fallask
ok liggjandi lygi um bellir.'

11. 'Do you have news for your trouble?
Say your long account from the air;
often a sitting man falters in speech
and a lying man utters lies.'

12. 'Hefi ek erfiði ok ørindi;
Þrymr hefir þinn hamar, þursa dróttinn;
hann engi maðr aptr um heimtir
nema hánum fœri Freyju at kván.'

12. 'I have trouble and tidings;
Þrymr, lord of the giants, has your hammer;
no man shall get it back
unless he brings him Freyja as a bride.'

13. Ganga þeir fagra Freyju at hitta,
ok hann þat orða alls fyrst um kvað:
'Bittu þik, Freyja, brúðar líni.
Vit skulum aka tvau í J†tunheima.'

13. They went to see the beautiful Freyja,
and he spoke these first of all words:
'Freyja, bind yourself in a bride's headdress.
We two must drive to Jötunheimr.'

14. Reið varð þá Freyja ok fnasaði;
allr Ása salr undir bifðisk;
st†kk þat it mikla men Brísinga.
'Mik veiztu verða vergjarnasta,
ef ek ek með þér í J†tunheima.'

14. Freyja was angry, and snorted;
all the gods' hall shook beneath her;
the great necklace of the Brísingar snapped.
'You will think that I have become most man-mad
if I drove with you to Jötunheimr.'

15. Senn váru Æsir allir á þingi
ok Ásynjur allar á máli,
ok um þat réðu ríkir tívar
hvé þeir Hlórriða hamar um sœtti.

15. Then all the Æsir were in a meeting,
and all the Ásynjur were in discussion,
and the powerful gods discussed
how they might reclaim Hlórriði's hammer.

16. Þá kvað þat Heimdallr, hvítastr Ása -
vissi hann vel fram, sem Vanir aðrir -
'Bindu vér Þór þá brúðar líni;
hafi hann it mikla men Brísinga.

16. Then Heimdallr said this, the whitest Áss -
he knew the future as well as other Vanir -
'Then let us clothe Þórr in a bridal headdress;
let him have the great necklace of the Brísingar.

17. Látum und hánum hrynja lukla
ok kvennváðir um kné falla,
en á brjósti breiða steina,
ok hagliga um h†fuð typpum.'

17. Let keys hang below him
and women's clothes fall around his knee,
and spread gemstones on his chest;
let us stylishly top out his head.'

18. þá kvað þat Þórr, þrúðugr Áss:
'Mik munu Æsir argan kalla,
ef ek bindask læt brúðar líni.'

18. Then Þórr said this, the mighty Áss:
'The Æsir will call me effeminate,
if I allow myself to be clothed in a bridal headdress.'

19. Þá kvað þat Loki Laufeyjar sonr:
'Þegi þú, Þórr, þeira orða;
þegar munu j†tnar Ásgarð búa,
nema þú þinn hamar þér um heimtir.'

19. The Loki said this, Laufey's son:
'Shut up, Þórr, with such words;
giants will soon dwell in Ásgarðr
unless you get your hammer back for yourself.'

20. Bundu þeir Þór þá brúðar líni
ok inu mikla meni Brísinga;
létu und honum hrynja lukla,
ok kvennváðir um kné falla,
en á brjósti breiða steina,
ok hagliga um h†fuð typðu.

20. Then they clothed Þórr in a bride's headdress
and the great necklace of the Brísingar;
they had keys hang below him
and women's clothes fall around his knee
and spread gemstones on his chest,
and they stylishly topped out his head.

21. Þá kvað þat Loki Laufeyjar sonr:
'Mun ek ok með þér ambótt vera;
vit skulum aka tvau í J†tunheima.'

21. Then Loki said this, Laufey's son:
'I will be a handmaid with you:
we two shall journey into Jötunheimr.'

22.Senn váru hafrar heim um reknir,
skyndir at sk†klum, skyldu vel renna.
Bj†rg brotnuðu, brann j†rð loga,
ók Óðins sonr í J†tunheima.

22. At once the goats were driven home,
hastened into harnesses, they would run well.
Rocks broke, earth blazed with fire,
Óðinn's son drove to Jötunheimr.

23. Þá kvað þat Þrymr, þursa dróttinn:
'Standið upp, j†tnar, ok stráið bekki!
Nú fœrið mér Freyju at kván,
Njarðar dóttur ór Nóatúnum.

23. Then Þrymr said this, lord of the giants:
'Stand up, giants, and prepare the benches!
Now bring me Freyja as a bride,
the daughter of Njörðr of Nóatún.

24. Ganga hér at garði gullhyrndar kýr,
øxn alsvartir j†tni at gamni;
fj†lð á ek meiðma, fj†lð á ek menja,
einnar mér Freyju ávant þykkir.'

24. Golden-horned cattle wander beside the enclosure,
all-black oxen for the giant's pleasure;
I have an abundance of treasures; I have an abundance of neck-rings,
Freyja alone seems missing to me.'

25. Var þar at kveldi um komit snimma,
ok fyr j†tna †l fram borit;
einn át oxa, átta laxa,
krásir allar þær er konur skyldu;
drakk Sifjar verr sáld þrjú mjaðar.

25. Evening soon came there,
and ale was brought forth for the giants;
one person ate an ox, eight salmon,
all the delicacies which the women should have;
Sif's husband drank three casks of mead.

26. Þá kvað þat Þrymr, þursa dróttinn:
'Hvar sáttu brúðir bíta hvassara?
Sáka ek brúðir bíta in breiðara,
né in meira mj†ð mey um drekka.'

26. Then Þrymr said this, the lord of giants:
'Where did you ever see brides eat more keenly?
I never saw brides eat with wider bites
nor any maiden drink more mead.'

27. Sat in alsnotra ambótt fyrir,
er orð um fann við j†tuns máli:
'Át vætr Freyja átta nóttum,
svá var hon óðfús í J†tunmeima.'

27. The very cunning handmaid sat near
and found an answer to the giant's speech:
'Freyja ate nothing for eight nights,
so desperate was she to go to Jötunheimr.'

28. Laut und línu, lysti at kyssa,
en hann útan st†kk endlangan sal.
'Hví eru †ndótt augu Freyju?
Þykki mér ór augum eldr um brenna.'

28. He bent under the headdress, he wanted to kiss her,
but he jumped back the whole length of the hall:
'Why are Freyja's eyes frightful?
It seems to me that fire is burning from her eyes.'

29. Sat in alsnotra ambótt fyrir,
er orð um fann við j†tuns máli:
'Svaf vætr Freyja átta nóttum,
svá var hon óðfús í J†tunheima.'

29. The very cunning handmaid sat near
and found an answer to the giant's speech:
'Freyja did not sleep for eight nights,
so desperate was she to go to Jötunheimr.'

30. Inn kom in arma j†tna systir,
hin er brúðfjár biðja þorði.
'Láttu þér af h†ndum hringa rauða,
ef þú †ðlask vill ástir mínar,
ástir mínar, alla hylli.'

30. In came the miserable sister of the giants,
she who dared to ask for the bride's wedding gift.
'Offer red gold rings from your hands
if you would gain my love,
all my love and favour.'

31. Þá kvað þat Þrymr, þursa dróttinn:
'Berið inn hamar brúði at vígja;
leggið Mj†llni í meyjar kné;
vígið okkr saman Várar hendi.'

31. Then Þrymr said this, lord of the giants:
'Bring in the hammer to consecrate the bride;
lay Mjöllnir in the maiden's lap;
consecrate us together by the hand of Vár.'

32. Hló Hlórriða hugr í brjósti
er harðhugaðr hamar um þekði.
Þrym drap hann fyrstan, þursa dróttinn,
ok ætt j†tuns alla lamði.

32. Hlórriði's spirit laughed in his chest
when the strong-minded one recognized his hammer.
Þrymr, lord of the giants, was the first one he killed,
before battering all the family of the giant.

33. Drap hann ina †ldnu j†tna systur,
hin er brúðfjár of beðit hafði;
hon skell um hlaut fyr skillinga
en h†gg hamars fyr hringa fj†lð.
Svá kom Óðins sonr endr at hamri.

33. He killed the old sister of the giants,
she who had asked for the bride's wedding gift;
she got a blow instead of coins,
a hammer hit instead of an abundance of rings.
So Óðinn's son came again upon his hammer.

[mal4mac]

First up is Þrymskviða ('The Poem of Þrymr'), a comic masterpiece in which the god Thor (or Þórr, as he will be called from here on out)


Why are you averse to translating the names? How do you pronounce that funny looking p? Is it a "th" sound? If so, why not just call him Thor?

[Lokasenna]

I see that the hooked-O letter hasn't come out, and is now signified by a little cross. Sorry about that!

Here's my little commentary:

1.A very obvious joke to begin with – not only is Þórr rather dim, but there’s a coded masturbation reference. The hammer is a phallic instrument, and the image of Þórr lying abed and groping for the shaft is comical.

2. The opening is a standard phrase that means something along the lines of ‘he spoke these words first, of all possible words.’ Þórr’s comment implies that this is breaking news - the loss of the hammer might have apocalyptic consequences. Also, just what is Loki doing in Þórr’s bedroom!?! Very likely another joke at the expense of Þórr’s masculinity, as well as the fact that Loki is usually to blame for things going wrong.

3. The same verbal phrase at the beginning. Freyja’s ‘feather-shape’ is a recurring item, a kind of magical garment that allows its wearer to assume the shape of a bird, and consequently gain the power of flight. Freyja herself is never actually shown using it.

4. A rather over-the-top display of support from Freyja. It doesn’t last, and adds to the comic effect of her later refusal.

5. This stanza adds to the generally confused method of travelling between worlds - here, it seems apparent that one can do so by flight.

6. Sitting on a burial mound is associated with ogres, but also strangely with kings - it is fitting behaviour on both a monstrous and aristocratic level. The other activities mentioned are also aristocratic.

7. An interesting stanza that seems to equate the nebulous elves with the more established tribe of gods.

8. Hlórriði is another name for Þórr - most gods have a large number of names, usually to aid in the composition of alliterative poetry.

9. It is a recurring theme that all the giants (and pretty much everything else with a penis) lust after Freyja.

10. Note the repetition of stock phrases - a major characteristic of eddic poetry.

11. Þórr's impatience is palpable, and the play-on-words in the final line still works in modern English.

12. Do you get the sense that Loki is beginning to enjoy himself? He becomes much more assertive as the poem goes on.

13. It is very noticeable that Þórr, for we must assume that it is he who is speaking, gives Freyja an order rather than a request: he clearly expects her to be willing to marry the giant, as per her usual, and perhaps unjustified, reputation for being a bit of a slut.

14. The idea of swelling with strong emotion is a recurring Norse theme, and Freyja is angry enough to lose her famous necklace, a recurring item in Germanic literature: Hygelac, in Beowulf, dies wearing it in battle. The joke, of course, is that everyone already thinks Freyja most man-mad anyway - there is rather a hint of 'the lady doth protest too much' here.

15. The Ásynjur are the female gods.

16. Heimdallr is the god's watchman, and his ability to see into the future suggests that he has already seen how this is going end, hence why he seems to be having just a little bit too much fun describing Þórr's make-over. Interestingly, it is uncertain why the poem refers to 'other Vanir', given that the previous line makes it clear that he is one of the Æsir. Perhaps this represents a variant tradition that had him as a member of the other divine tribe, a confusion which suggests a late date for the poem.

17. Keys hanging from the belt are a symbol of female authority in Nordic culture - whilst men ruled outside the house, within the main building the woman was in charge and kept the keys to all storage containers.

18. The insult 'argr' is usually translated as 'effeminate', but actually has a wider field of meaning that can mean any and all of the following: effeminacy, cowardice, homosexuality, the recipient party in any kind of sexual congress, magic use, cross-dressing, sexual deviancy of any kind, and actual transformation into a woman. It is the single worst word in the Old Norse vocabulary - according to the earliest Icelandic law codes, if someone uses it then their victim is allowed to kill them without any legal consequences. So, in a sense, Þórr's fears are justified.

19. This marks the point at which Loki starts to take control - over the course of the poem, he moves from a passive and subservient figure to the controlling intelligence of the action. When it comes to matters of cross-dressing and seduction, the famously bisexual Loki is clearly the authority.

20. Once again we have the repetition of these phrases being used for comic effect - Heimdallr's prediction has come to pass exactly as he described it.

21. Loki clearly has no issues with dressing as a woman, and as will be seen is clearly the better female impersonator. He uses 'tvau' to mean 'we two', which is curiously in the neuter form - for two men it should be 'tveir', so this is likely a sly dig by Loki at Þórr's discomfort with their newly fluid gender.

22. Þórr's chariot is traditionally pulled by two goats. The violent imagery of his portentous journey across worlds is deliberately thwarted when you consider that the chariot is being driven by two 'women' in their finest clothes.

23. Njörðr, a sea-god, is the most senior of the Vanir gods, who despite being married to the giantess Skaði allegedly begot his daughter and son Freyr on his unnamed sister. This may reflect an older tradition in which Njörðr was actually a goddess, cognate with the figure of Nerthus described by Tacitus.

24. Þrymr is emphasising his aristocratic status by drawing attention to his material wealth; he is an impressive figure, though this image is rather sabotaged by his later stupidity.

25. Sif is Þórr's wife, and a relatively minor character in the mythology. The reference to her serves to reinforce Þórr's underlying masculinity, as demonstrated by his prodigious appetite. The Icelanders, having no bees, would not have drunk mead; nor, indeed, was it overly popular in the Scandinavian mainland. 'Mead' in an Old Norse sense would have meant beer.

26. Þórr is very obviously a big, bearded bloke in a dress. Þrymr is fantastically dim. We are very much into 'Grandma, what big teeth you have' territory.

27. Loki's intelligence is contrasted with Þrymr's stupidity, and he is playing on the giant's desires for a sexually rapacious goddess for a wife. Ironically, Þórr's hyper-masculine attributes are being interpreted as examples of hyper-femininity.

28. Þórr's warrior-eyes are another indicator of his masculinity. There is broad slapstick appeal in Þrymr recoiling so violently from his 'beautiful' bride.

29. Þórr's bloodshot eyes are written off as a product of lust-induced insomnia. Loki continues to play with Freyja's reputation for being a slut, and disguising Þórr by pandering to Þrymr's sexual fantasies.

30. Giantesses tend to be more frightening, antisocial and cunning than their male counterparts, and the evil sister-in-law is here to make sure the reader is not on the side of the giants - she is being incredibly rude to her new relative here. She gets her come-uppance soon after.

31. The hammer is placed in Þórr's lap - with its obvious phallic connotations, this means that he is once more a man. The invocation of Vár, probably another name for Freyja, suggests that this stanza might actually genuinely reflect some aspect of pre-Christian marriage rituals - an idea supported by the bringing in of a hallowed object to bless the female's womb.

32. Þórr back to his natural state, though do remember that he still wearing his bridal attire - there is still a great deal of physical comedy present.

33. The sister-in-law gets her just desserts, and the poem ends in a moment of happy mayhem. The situation comes to a comfortable resolution: the re-masculinised Þórr returns to his standard pastime of giant-bashing with no permanent stain on his honour, and the hammer is back under divine control.

[mal4mac]

1. Reiðr var þa Ving-Þórr er hann vaknaði
ok sins hamars um saknaði;
skegg nam at hrista, sk†r nam at dýja,
réð Jarðar burr um at þreifask.

1. Ving-Þórr was angry when he awoke
and found his hammer gone;
he shakes his beard, he shakes his hair,
the son of J†rð began to grope about himself.

Is "Ving" Thor's first name? Why have you translated Jarðar as J†rð ? The former has only one letter I've never seen before!


2. Ok hann þat orða alls fyst um kvað:
‘Heyrðu nú, Loki, hvat ek nú mæli,
er engi veit jarðar hvergi
né upphimins: Áss er stolinn hamri!’

2. And he spoke these first of all words:
‘Listen now, Loki, to what I say,
what no one on earth nor
in the heavens knows: the Áss is robbed of his hammer!’


Does Áss have a double meaning? That is, "donkey" and "God"? If so, that's very funny!

[cacian]

interesting and first of all why am I getting this impression that it is very much a tale of a red riding hood somewhere.
the wolf dressed as a grand ma and little hood asking about the size of the mouth the eyes and the body?
it is a rather bloody ending I have to admit.
is the hammer a symbol of something in norse?
the other question is is Tor supposed to be similar to the other meaning of Tor which means 'Thursday' or something like that.
is this piece representative of the norse folklore?

[Lokasenna]

Why are you averse to translating the names? How do you pronounce that funny looking p? Is it a "th" sound? If so, why not just call him Thor?

It is indeed pronounced 'Th'. The current trend in scholarship for the last several decades has been to keep proper nouns in their nomnative state: Þórr is his name, and that's what were going to call him. If you were translating a work from French, say, you probably would not just strip out all the accented letters - so the same is true of letters that have fallen out of English usage.


Is "Ving" Thor's first name? Why have you translated Jarðar as J†rð ? The former has only one letter I've never seen before!

'Ving' means 'swing' - again, the usual approach these days is to leave nicknames untranslated. Most figures have a great many nicknames, often employed just to help the alliteration. 'Jarðar' is in the genitive form (ON being an inflected language), but as modern English does not use (many) inflections it gets transformed into its nomnative form, as I said above.


Does Áss have a double meaning? That is, "donkey" and "God"? If so, that's very funny!

Sadly, no. Also, the 'Á' is pronounced 'au' - so it doesn't sound the same as '***'.

[Lokasenna]

interesting and first of all why am I getting this impression that it is very much a tale of a red riding hood somewhere.
the wolf dressed as a grand ma and little hood asking about the size of the mouth the eyes and the body?

Very much so - this is very broad humour. Given that we now think that many of these poems would have been performed, or had some kind of theatrical function, you can image that this sort of poem would have a strong hint of pantomime about it.


it is a rather bloody ending I have to admit.

Well, the giants and the gods are long-standing enemies - even if what Þórr is doing is both shameful and dishonourable, we aren't supposed to feel too sorry for his enemies...


is the hammer a symbol of something in norse?

First and foremost, it's a phallic symbol. We're even told in other sources that Þórr's hammer has quite a short shaft, making it even more similar to male genitalia. Þórr's hammer was also a powerful pagan symbol - we have lots them from the early middle ages, and they were often worn around the neck much like (and probably in imitation of) the Christian cross.


the other question is is Tor supposed to be similar to the other meaning of Tor which means 'Thursday' or something like that.

Indeed. All of our weekdays, except for Sunday (Sun-day) and Monday (Moon-day) are named after Germanic deities.


is this piece representative of the norse folklore?

Absolutely. Old Norse mythology has loads of funny stories, often with a lot of dirty jokes. There's plenty of serious and high-minded stuff as well, of course...

[JBI]

I'm not going to lie, some of those Scandinavian syllables are offputting. It stops people from relating to a character by not being able to guess their name and remember it. It's sort of like me translating Li Bai the poet, but instead every time his name came up I would stick a 李白 in there, which of course to me is better than the translation, but would sort of exclude anybody who is not familiar with Chinese (and if this is a translation, then everyone who would read a translation). Oh, the marginalization those working out of their discourse language must go through to be able to discuss things with the plebes!, still Pound proved it is not the accurate but the digestible translations which prosper.

[Calidore]

It is indeed pronounced 'Th'. The current trend in scholarship for the last several decades has been to keep proper nouns in their nomnative state: Þórr is his name, and that's what were going to call him.

A leading glossary of names/words that won't be translated might be a helpful solution for those of us who are non-scholars.

[Nick Capozzoli]

I like this poem, though I do not know Old Norse. I hear similarity to Anglo-Saxon, which I can read. I wonder if this "Ving-Þórr" is like a Homeric Epithet?

[cacian]

I like this poem, though I do not know Old Norse. I hear similarity to Anglo-Saxon, which I can read. I wonder if this "Ving-Þórr" is like a Homeric Epithet?

I agree very similar but then what is a saxon if not everywhere not necessarily just anglo.

[cacian]

Very much so - this is very broad humour. Given that we now think that many of these poems would have been performed, or had some kind of theatrical function, you can image that this sort of poem would have a strong hint of pantomime about it.
pantomime never crossed my mind but yes I see what you mean.


Well, the giants and the gods are long-standing enemies - even if what Þórr is doing is both shameful and dishonourable, we aren't supposed to feel too sorry for his enemies...interesting. I am somehow standoffish with regards to sympathy. my gut feeling was of dreadful and bloody. however a giant is by nature uninteresting and therefore one would in general expect not to like it because of the sheer size of it. it is obvious from the outset that a giant and a god would not get on. it is well too obvious a conflict. it would have been more interesting to me if both antagonists were of the same level the same criteria. the conflict would have been more enticing I would imagine. it would have made for a better read to me.
do you find the style of the language rather too complex for such mundane story?


First and foremost, it's a phallic symbol. We're even told in other sources that Þórr's hammer has quite a short shaft, making it even more similar to male genitalia. Þórr's hammer was also a powerful pagan symbol - we have lots them from the early middle ages, and they were often worn around the neck much like (and probably in imitation of) the Christian cross.an imitation of the cross? shapes and objects tends to symbolise some kind of idealism and a hammer reminds of communism or a football team. interesting it is of a phallic symbol. aren't all tall scrapers/buildings like the obelisk?




Indeed. All of our weekdays, except for Sunday (Sun-day) and Monday (Moon-day) are named after Germanic deities.
apart from those two days? there has to be a reason.

Absolutely. Old Norse mythology has loads of funny stories, often with a lot of dirty jokes. There's plenty of serious and high-minded stuff as well, of course...dirty jokes? if so would that be all they are just jokes and therefore they are not to be taken seriously?

[mal4mac]

It is indeed pronounced 'Th'. The current trend in scholarship for the last several decades has been to keep proper nouns in their nomnative state: Þórr is his name, and that's what were going to call him.

Carolyne Larrington's translation in Oxford World Classics uses "Thor", and drops the diacritical marks. I think these moves are to be encouraged in translations aimed at the general public. But as a scholar speaking to scholars you can, of course, do what you want in your own small circle. But don't expect to get famous by pandering to scholars rather than the general public :)




If you were translating a work from French, say, you probably would not just strip out all the accented letters - so the same is true of letters that have fallen out of English usage.


I think you need to be sensitive to the audience, you might keep in the acute and grave accents because most people tackling a French classic in translation would know about these "going in". But I don't think you can expect a general audience to know that the funny p is equivalent to "th", etc. I want to get into the story *now*, not learn a new language before I can even begin! How would you feel if you were forced to study organic chemistry for an hour before watching each episode of Breaking Bad?



'Ving' means 'swing' - again, the usual approach these days is to leave nicknames untranslated. Most figures have a great many nicknames, often employed just to help the alliteration. 'Jarðar' is in the genitive form (ON being an inflected language), but as modern English does not use (many) inflections it gets transformed into its nomnative form, as I said above.


What a naff nickname! Perhaps it's better untranslated :) I guess you have to do this if you are aiming at a scholarly translation, but I'd be happier to read a less literal translation that gets the intention across immediately, and doesn't sound naff in a modern context. Like the old marvel comics "Thor the Thunder God", maybe. Or (better!) Auden's reduction of the name-nickname to "the Hurler". Here's a few verses from the Taylor/Auden translation, which I could read without any notes, as easily as watching an episode of Breaking Bad. Of course, I then don't have the literal translation ("feather shape", "Swing-Thor", ...), but am I missing anything essential?

The Lay of Thrym
From Norse Poems

Translated by Paul B. Taylor & W.H. Auden

1] The Hurler woke, went wild with rage,
For, suddenly, he missed his sacred Hammer:
He tore his beard, tossed his red locks,
Groped about but could grasp nothing.
Thus, then did Thor speak: 'Loki, Loki, listen well.
Unmarked by men, unmarked by gods,
Someone has stolen my sacred Hammer.'

2] Fast they went to Freya’s quarters.
Then said Loki, Laufey's Son:
'Freya, will you lend me your feathered cloak
To fly in search of the sacred Hammer?'

3] 'I would give it you gladly, were it gold not feathers,
Part with it now, were it pure silver.'

4] Then Loki flew - the feathers whistled -
Out of the door of the Hall of Gods
On and on to the Hall of Giants.
There, on a howe, Thrym sat,
Braiding gold collars for his kennel of hounds,
Unteasing the manes of the mares he loved:
'How fare the gods? How fare the elves?
What brings you on this journey to Gianthome?'

5] 'Ill fare the gods, ill fare the elves.
Have you taken and hidden the Hammer of Thunder?'

6] 'I have taken and hidden the Hammer of Thunder
Eight miles deep, way under the ground:
Henceforth no god shall get it back
Till you fetch me Freya for my future bride.'

7] Then Loki flew - the feathers whistled -
Out of the door of the Hall of Giants
On and on to the Hall of Gods.
Meeting him there in the middle court,
Thus then did Thor speak:
'Do you come with a message, not mischief only?
Stand where you are. Let me hear your tidings.
He who sits is seldom truthful,
Who stretches at length a liar always.'

8] 'I come with a message, not mischief only.
Thrym stole your Hammer to hide it away.
Henceforth no god shall get it back
Till we fetch him Freya for his future bride.'

9]Fast they went to Freyá's quarters.
Then said Loki, Laufey's Son:
'Busk yourself, Freya, in a bridal veil.
You must journey with me to Gianthome.'

10] Freya snorted with fierce rage,
The hall shook and shuddered about them,
Broken to bits was the Brising Necklace:
'In the eyes of the gods a whore I should seem,
If I journeyed with you to Gianthome.'

11] The gods hastened to their Hall of Judgment,
Gathered together, goddesses with them,
Sat in council to consider how
To recover the holy Hammer of Thunder.

12] Heimdal said, sagest of gods,
Who could see the future as his fathers did:
'We must busk Thor in a bridal veil,
Hang about him the Brising Necklace,
Bind to his waist a bunch of keys,
Hide his legs in a long dress,
Broad brooches to his breast pin,
With a neat cap cover his locks.'

13] Thus, then, did Thor speak:
'With coarse laughs you will call me a She
If I busk myself in a bridal veil.'

14] Loki replied, Laufey's Son:
'Be silent, Thunderer, say no more.
Without the Hammer Asgard is lost.
The giants will dwell here, soon drive us out.'

15] They busked Thor then in a bridal veil,
Hung about him the Brising Necklace,
Bound to his waist a bunch of keys,
Hid his legs in a long dress,
Broad brooches to his breast pinned,
With a neat cap covered his locks.

16] Then said Loki, Laufey's Son:
'I also shall come as your handmaid with you,
We will journey together to Gianthome.'

17] Quickly the goats were gathered from pasture,
Hurried into harness: eagerly they ran.
Fire scorched the earth, the fells cracked,
As Thunderer journeyed to Gianthome.

18] Thus, then did Thrym speak:
'Stand up giants, lay straw on the benches.
They may well bring me my bride now,
Njörd's Daughter, from Noatun.
In my fields there graze gold-horned cattle,
All-black oxen, for my eye's delight.
Much is my treasure, many my gems
Nothing I lack save lovely Freya.'

19] Evening came: ale and food
Were brought to the benches.
The bride quickly
Ate a whole ox and eight salmon,
The sweet dainties reserved for the women,
And more than three measures of mead drank.
Thus, then did Thrym speak:
'Was ever bride with appetite so keen,
Ever a bride who took such big mouthfuls,
When was more mead drunk by one maid alone?'

20] Loki, the handmaid, leaning forward,
Found the words to befuddle the giant:
'She has not eaten for eight long nights,
So wild her longing for the wedding day.'

21] Thrym lifted her veil, leaned to kiss her,
Back he leaped, the full length of the hall:
'How fierce the look in Freya’s eyes!
Dangerous the fire that darts out of them.'

22] Loki, the handmaid, leaning forward,
Found the words to befuddle the giant:
'She has had no sleep for eight long nights,
So wild her longing for the wedding day.'

23] The luckless sister of the luckless giant
Dared to beg for bridal gifts:
'Give me your rings of red gold,
The rings from your fingers, my favor to win,
My good will, my grace and blessing.'

24] Thus, then, did Thrym speak:
'To bless the bride now bring the Hammer,
Lay Mjöllnir upon the maiden's lap
And wish us joy with joined hands.'

25] Then in his heart Thunderer laughed,
The savage one, when he saw his Hammer.
First Thrym he felled to the ground,
Then all his kin he killed in turn,
Laid low his luckless sister
Who had dared to beg for bridal gifts:
Instead of gold she got a blow,
Instead of rings a rap on the skull.
Thus Thor came to recover his Hammer.

http://courses.missouristate.edu/ecarawan/Thor&Thrym.htm

[Lokasenna]

I'm not going to lie, some of those Scandinavian syllables are offputting. It stops people from relating to a character by not being able to guess their name and remember it. It's sort of like me translating Li Bai the poet, but instead every time his name came up I would stick a 李白 in there, which of course to me is better than the translation, but would sort of exclude anybody who is not familiar with Chinese (and if this is a translation, then everyone who would read a translation). Oh, the marginalization those working out of their discourse language must go through to be able to discuss things with the plebes!, still Pound proved it is not the accurate but the digestible translations which prosper.

I take your point, though I still think I am somewhat justified insofar as Old Norse is an ancestor of modern English - we've just lost a handful of letters, that's all. Chinese characters, by contrast, are fundamentally alien to English. Still, I do take your point.


A leading glossary of names/words that won't be translated might be a helpful solution for those of us who are non-scholars.

Fair enough, I'll try to add that here if I can find the time, and I'll certainly do it for other ON poems I post up. In the stanza-by-stanza commentary, I do attempt to explain some of the more obscure terms...


I like this poem, though I do not know Old Norse. I hear similarity to Anglo-Saxon, which I can read. I wonder if this "Ving-Þórr" is like a Homeric Epithet?

I'm very glad you like it - it is a fun poem. And yes, the similarity to Anglo-Saxon, in both linguistic and cultural terms, is apparent. They were, after all, sister cultures with a common ancestor.

The use of nicknames is not that different from Homer, actually - as with classical poetry, the constraints of the metre (and in particular with ON poetry, the need for alliteration) force their frequent use.

I know I've got more comments to reply to, but I'll answer them later - I've got to dash for now!

[Poetaster]

I found this such a joy to read! Have you done many other translations? I'd very much like to read more of these poems.

[Lokasenna]

I found this such a joy to read! Have you done many other translations? I'd very much like to read more of these poems.

I'm glad you enjoyed it! There is another one on the way, which I'll put up when I have time to edit it properply - I'm currently up to my ears in marking, so it will be a few days before I have a chance!

Until then, here's one I posted some while ago:

http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?57344-V%F6lusp%E1-A-Norse-Masterpiece

[hannah_arendt]

This year, for the first time, I am actually teaching directly on my own topic of Old Norse literature. Not only is this a wonderful opportunity to see fresh, new students engaging with this wonderful but little known material, but it is also an excuse for me to really get to grips with the poetry. This means, of course, translating them - and whilst I'm at it, I thought it might be quite nice for me to post my translations up here in case anyone was interested. I'm also doing a brief running commentary on each stanza, which folks here on LitNet might find useful.

First up is Þrymskviða ('The Poem of Þrymr'), a comic masterpiece in which the god Thor (or Þórr, as he will be called from here on out) must disguise himself as the goddess Freyja and offer to marry a giant in order to retrieve his stolen hammer - as you might imagine, there are a lot of jokes at the expense of his masculinity. Like most eddic poetry, it is found only in one manuscript: the Codex Regius. This manuscript was composed in the 1270s, though the poems it contains are likely to be considerably older. Interestingly, this story is not referenced in Snorri's prose Edda, which could suggest that it is quite a late poem. What we can say is that it was enormously popular, being retold and reinvented in the ballad, fairytale and folksong traditions of northern Europe for centuries afterwards.

As ever, I'm very happy to answer any questions anyone might have on Old Norse matters...

On with the poem!

congratulations :)

Now I ma enjoping my course in history of English. Unfortunately, it`s only 1 semester:(

[Nick Capozzoli]

Fló þá Loki, fjaðrhamr dunði

I like the sound of this, which reminds me of lines from the Battle of Maldon (he let him tha of handen loefnes fliegan...etc.