the dark side

[cacian]

is there a dark side to humans or is it a myth propagated by literature for literature?
does nature have a dark side for example? hence the expression ''the dark side of the moon''. what it could mean may be subject to speculations.

[Buh4Bee]

I guess we have jails for the fun of it.

[Kyriakos]

I am not sure from what point of view you are approaching this, Cacian. From some points of view it is evident that something which can be termed as a "dark side" exists in our world, since people have sometimes chopped others up, and some have even eaten them. If you mean- which i think you do- mostly if any kind of horrible action should be termed as "dark" and not some other term which is less connotated, then i will disagree, for a number of reasons, but i will present the following from them:

-If the negative/positive spectrum, in our mind, of any action, stops to exist then we would not be better off at all than we are now, given that it would not follow that horrible actions would also die out as a result. It would mean that those actions would be harder to define as negative, which by itself is not any evident gain.

[cafolini]

I think you guys missed the white side. ROFLMAO

[The Atheist]

is there a dark side to humans or is it a myth propagated by literature for literature?
does nature have a dark side for example? hence the expression ''the dark side of the moon''. what it could mean may be subject to speculations.

Only if you accept that good & evil exist as entities, otherwise, no.

As far as I've been able to tell, humans do nothing that doesn't occur somewhere in the animal world, so all actions are natural. We just like to classify some things as crimes or immorality so we can sleep at night.

On the other hand, you could ask someone with depression and they might convince you it's dark on both sides.

[cacian]

Only if you accept that good & evil exist as entities, otherwise, no.

I do not accept it no.

As far as I've been able to tell, humans do nothing that doesn't occur somewhere in the animal world,
I am not sure i agree. animals are instinctive in the sense that they do what they do to survive. their communicative skill is limited and so actions is their only way.
humans however communicate. they have the mental ability to express an action without taking it and therefore comparing one self to an animal is hugely incorrect.


so all actions are natural.
for animals yes. they are nature they are exposed to it they do not live in houses . they are part of the natural landscape and therefore react with it and not against it.


We just like to classify some things as crimes or immorality so we can sleep at night.

i am not so sure either about this. many things humans do are incorrect and unnatural. killing one another is not natural. it goes against the prosperity of the human race. if humans are to prosper and live on this earth continuously they must refrain from killing each other. they do however act it as if it was natural when it is clear it is not normal.
immoral has nothing to do it. what is immoral is to impose morality on others and tell them how to conduct their lives. it is not about instruction it is about being exemplary and taking action in this sense. it is not about telling it is about showing. humans are capable of it.

On the other hand, you could ask someone with depression and they might convince you it's dark on both sides.
depression is part of the genetic failure to address the many wrongs of this life. we push other to the limits of what one can't do to the point of mental collapse. not being able to provide for one's being is depressive.

[MorpheusSandman]

You guys left me to do it: If you only knew the POWER of the DAAARK SIIIIDE! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esEcwAWi6dk)

[FROADS]

I personally think that even the most good, morally driven person can be pushed into commiting acts against his/her convictions. There's an obvious dark side to our character, anger for one is the catalyst that may lead us to do such acts. Anger can lead to sadness, confusion or rage. Rage is that impulse which usually translates into violence and self destruction.

[russellb]

do physicists say darkness is the absence of light? I think some theologians have argued that that the 'moral darkness' of evil is the negative quality of the absence of good. If you want to say that there is good and evil in everyone, following on from this, i suppose it follows that really this means that there is a relative absence of goodness in everyone

[cacian]

do physicists say darkness is the absence of light? I think some theologians have argued that that the 'moral darkness' of evil is the negative quality of the absence of good. If you want to say that there is good and evil in everyone, following on from this, i suppose it follows that really this means that there is a relative absence of goodness in everyone

''a relative absence of goodness'' would you say that applies to you?

[russellb]

to me more than most, but is that a philosophical question?

[Delta40]

''a relative absence in everyone'' would you say that apples to you?

I say apples to everyone!

[cacian]

to me more than most, but is that a philosophical question?

yes and no. it could be anything :)

[cacian]

I say apples to everyone!

LOL and a cider to go with it!!

[Rowan]

This raises, to me at least, the interesting question of what something ''dark'' really is. I mean, when has anything dark really happened?
What is "dark'' and what is ''good'' is left to decide to those who were left ot speak of it at the end. I, personally, don't think that anyone ever does anything for the sake of evil. When you're greedy, you don't act upon your greed because you're an evil genious whose next step is to assassinate the Pope. You do so for reasons of good that others will see (or recognise. Who knows.) as "Mwaha-ha-ha-evul."
So is there a dark side to people? It depends on your culture, your reasoning, and the methods of measuring of those around you.
Ya know.
I don't think there's an evil, dark, imp inside of people who occasionally pops up, engages in evil, and who we can all point to and yell "There's evil behaviour right there, chaps!''

[Yaur]

All living things, be they human, animal, or vegetative, are fundamentally selfish. This is how evolution works.

In social animals there is an inherent conflict between the first order "selfish" where we do for our selves, second order "selfish" where we do for our family, third order "selfish" where we do for our tribe, and fourth order "selfish" where we do for our species. A "dark side" is only an ideological construct to pull us closer to that fourth order ideal and only has power because we have become a species that embraces specialization and requires some level of support from all four orders.

Ask a flower or a coyote what the concept of a "dark side" means and you will get very different perspective.

[cacian]

All living things, be they human, animal, or vegetative, are fundamentally selfish. This is how evolution works.

In social animals there is an inherent conflict between the first order "selfish" where we do for our selves, second order "selfish" where we do for our family, third order "selfish" where we do for our tribe, and fourth order "selfish" where we do for our species. A "dark side" is only an ideological construct to pull us closer to that fourth order ideal and only has power because we have become a species that embraces specialization and requires some level of support from all four orders.

Ask a flower or a coyote what the concept of a "dark side" means and you will get very different perspective.

I have to disagree the only selfish are the humans.
animals and plants are very different to us. there is no comparison. animals and plants rely on light as well as non light to carry on their cycle.
we must follow suit we may learn something.

[Yaur]

I'm curious on what basis you would call selfishness a human specific trait. I'll give some specific examples that in humans would be seen as somewhere between “selfish” and outright “evil” in humans:

In coyote packs, pups are not allowed to eat until the adults have had their fill. If there isn't enough food... well you can guess what happens.

Infanticide is well documented in Lions, Gerbils, Prairie dogs, and a bunch of other species.

Brood parasitism in the Cuckoo among others.

Somewhere on the internet (don't think I have enough posts to post links yet) there is a video of a an octopus killing a shark, not out of hunger or because it was under attack but because the shark represented an existential threat.

The whole sea otter/seal thing. I believe this is supposed to be a family friendly site so I won't write more than that, but you can Google it if you really want to know.

[astrum]

is there a dark side to humans or is it a myth propagated by literature for literature?
does nature have a dark side for example? hence the expression ''the dark side of the moon''. what it could mean may be subject to speculations.


Human nature undoubtedly has a dark side.
Robert Greene does a good job of explaining that side in his books (https://www.google.com/search?q=robert+greene&num=40&espv=210&es_sm=93&source=lnms&tbm=bks&sa=X&ei=0T4AU_m1I4OBygG6r4CQAw&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=667)--especially "The 48 Laws of Power."