Studying Literature as a Foreigner

[yudencow]

Hi, everybody.

My name is Asaph. I am an Israeli. I speak English since I was 8, and I'm quite fluent.

I always liked the English language.

I tried and studied computer science, but it's not for me.

Is it worth to study English Literature degree in Israel if I want to work later abroad?

Will I always be second-grade applicant for work afterwords because I'm not a native speaker?

How much not being a native speaker will hold me back? Which doors are open and which doors are not?

Should I learn something else as a bachelor and than move on to have a safety net?

[Prince Smiles]

Hi, everybody.

My name is Asaph. I am an Israeli. I speak English since I was 8, and I'm quite fluent.

I always liked the English language.

I tried and studied computer science, but it's not for me.

Is it worth to study English Literature degree in Israel if I want to work later abroad?

Will I always be second-grade applicant for work afterwords because I'm not a native speaker?

How much not being a native speaker will hold me back? Which doors are open and which doors are not?

Should I learn something else as a bachelor and than move on to have a safety net?

Some say, get your undergraduate degree as cheaply and as painlessly as possible and then select a good solid grad school and programme.
A liberal arts degree is sadly not very advantageous as I am sure you are aware of, unless of course you want to go into education, and then you need the masters anyway.
If you are hoping for employment internationally business wise, an MBA will open doors.
At the end of the day, there is nothing worse than studying a subject that you don't like, or find uninspiring.

[JBI]

English as a degree will not lead to a job rooted in English literature as a field. It probably will only yield to degrees related to foreign affairs, translation, interpretation, and formal writing, as well as other educational related endeavors.

Being from Israel, you will have noticed that everybody there already speaks fluent English, unless they are religious. Generally foreign ministers abroad also speak English in meetings (such as when Bibi talks to Obama, it is done without translators in English).

Now, from what my uncle tells me, the Israeli academy is far more pragmatic than elsewhere, and more designed to create work for the necessary jobs that will exist, as apposed to the system in the US which is designed to "sell" education to students (more or less). So basically, though English degrees would be required, chances are they would be less desired in Israel, a tech giant, than elsewhere, as much of the academy in Israel is pragmatic rather than "inspirational".

That being said, Israeli academics in the field of literature have made numerous contributions. Even in my field of Chinese studies, Tel Aviv University ranks on par with any number of European institutions in the research of literature, or history, as the academic system, set up by the older generation, is incredibly pragmatic and competitive. In that field, if you work hard, you should have no problem, assuming both the interest, motivation, and talent are there. English literature should be the same, except the field is far more saturated.

Generally, the place to ask is the university itself. Ask them what your career prospects will be if you study such things. I think Israelis are far more down to earth than Canadians in this regard, and will simply tell you, if you do this you will be unemployed.

If you are looking at this as a jump for foreign service or the like, also you may note that Israelis tend to speak good English in general (enough for the diplomatic job, especially after a degree) and discharge papers, connections, and a more standard degree (in diplomacy or the like) will generally be more persuasive than a degree in English, from what I understand.

That being said, in terms of study of English - if you want to compete internationally, you need to bring to the table something new. If you ever want to be super-big, you need something both very new and very good, and you cannot goof it for long, as everyone will attack you sooner or later, the higher you go.

Now, this is all assuming you are an Israeli Jew, rather than an Israeli Arab, which would change experiences significantly. If Jewish, I would inquire why you would choose such a username, given its perhaps interpretation as "Juden cow" or the like, which I would think is not your intention. If you are an Israeli Arab, the political system in which you live will ultimately change the developmental experience with which you live your life, and you can ignore much of what I said, as it's perhaps biased toward one side (the side of which I feel I can comment to any extent).

That being said, literature study is generally a dead-end field in terms of job searching compared to computer science, which is a field leading straight to industry. If you want an easier life, stick to the practical applied fields like computers, and stay away from the humanities. If you intend to go abroad, then note you'll pay a lot of money for a one way ticket to unemployment.

[yudencow]

Thanks for the replies.

Prince Smiles (lol awesome nickname), do you mean MBA in Business Admin. or in English Lit.?

JBI, the nickname is from my World of Warcraft days where I played a Tauran, a Minotaur-like humanoid. It stuck. I'm Jewish. If I understand correctly, outside the academy, it is pretty much useless. What do you mean bringing something new and good? To what?

[yudencow]

And I wanted to ask, as an Israeli that grew up and studied only in Israel, will it be possible to find jobs in English Lit. or Writing in the USA?

[cacian]

Thanks for the replies.

Prince Smiles (lol awesome nickname), do you mean MBA in Business Admin. or in English Lit.?

JBI, the nickname is from my World of Warcraft days where I played a Tauran, a Minotaur-like humanoid. It stuck. I'm Jewish. If I understand correctly, outside the academy, it is pretty much useless. What do you mean bringing something new and good? To what?

speaking of usernames what does yudencow mean? and Asaph for that matter? :)

[JBI]

No idea - probably not. As for something new - I mean new perspectives, new ideas, new approaches. Israeli universities tend to grow good talent, but they are more in line with European institutions, from what I can gather, rather than American ones.

As for work - well, you may, if you can afford it, get accepted for Graduate Studies in the US, which is all they will give you. As for Jobs, local English graduates cannot get jobs as it is.

Now, when one cannot find work, one should create work, so if you are inclined in that direction, you should have no problem. Yet, and I must stress this, the degree will not get you a foot in anywhere. Generally if you wanted a foot in academic circles, the big trends are English mixed with ethics, and European sort of Area Studies. Arabic would be a better degree in many ways, regardless of political affiliations, and would have been my choice, or my second choice, knowing what I know now (when I started, I really knew not who to ask). English in general may lead you to a teaching job in Israel as an English teacher, assuming such jobs exist. And certainly being a graduate in the field, with local connections will help you in Israel over another person.

But even so, the options are limited. English, Philosophy, and North American/European history are probably the most saturated fields in North America. Political science and art history are fairly close as well. Generally these are career paths that lead to things completely unrelated to the field one studies in - or to jobs in education. Not one in a thousand students will end up a professor, or doing work related to the field for the remainder of their life.

That being said, if you play it right, it can lead to some comfortable jobs. Teachers in Toronto, where I am from, for instance, live comfortable lives (though getting the job is hard now too). English students get to meet interesting people, and read good books. And in general, first degrees in north America are not as significant as the fact that they are completed - employers don't generally care about anything non-scientific in nature.

For instance, most of my classmates who studied Chinese with me had not spent much time in Asia, nor had they ever fully mastered the language. They, by now, most likely have forgot the little conversation they mastered, and cannot even read a menu. Of those who went to China, not 10% have come out being able to do anything, as the trap of speaking English, and the lack of caring had prohibited their development. Of those I met when I was in Beijing, not 10% of the Western students have grasped the basic linguistic skills necessary to be functional in a Chinese environment, let alone carry out research in an exclusively Chinese-language field. For Vietnamese students, however, who find Chinese closer linked to their lives, most mastered the language faster, and managed to work it into something useful. They had both the advantage of interest, and the more important advantage of necessity - for them this is a career choice, with consequences for failing.

IF one loves something, however, one will always find a way to get through it, even if it does not make money. I studied English literature, and enjoyed it thoroughly at the time, despite abandoning it, in a sense, to further pursue Chinese and East-Asian cultures and literatures. It was, in a sense, a fluke that I changed over, and came out rather nice in the end.

People need to follow what they like, and find a way to make it work. Pragmatism only goes so far and will not necessarily lead to happiness, or money. If you love it though, you'll find a way to make it work.

That being said, most people don't actually like it enough. So they will not make it work. Or those who like it may not necessarily study it, or make it their day-job. Others may pursue other interests, which is completely fine, and advantageous - one can like English literature without studying it.

As a foreigner, the odds in the US are against you, but you have other advantages - you come from a comparative background, which adds levels of competitiveness. You need to figure out what these levels are, and then use them to your advantage. Everyone now seems to have their theses, etc. professionally edited, so the language will only be a minor problem, assuredly, that should be remedied with hard work and time.

[yudencow]

Cacian, Asaph means in Hebrew gathered, usually associated as "gathered by god", as many other biblical names. There are several figures in the bible with the same name. It is quite common in Israel.

JBI, thanks for the time and support. If I understand correctly, I should to make things on my own and create myself opportunities. Is it by creating things and try to sell them? Should I upload things I created onto a blog?

Also, if native speakers can't get jobs in things, it does seem to be very unlikely for me to get one if it as scarce as it is. But, if you don't try, you'll never know.

You talked about advantages:
A. Knowing the local Middle East, which Americans seem to not understand over and over in political and military moves they are doing, is definitely an advantage as the world looks a lot of times to this region.
B. The ability to speak a second language, Hebrew, a language tied to the old testament and other holy works, that may prove an advantage on working on things with a more Judeo-Christian thing.
C. Maybe being Jewish will help.
D. I do think the environment I grew up in, which is very similar to North America will give me a different perspective about things like war and politics, while maintaining the same perspective about more interpersonal things.

How can I increase the odds in the US or in Canada?

[yudencow]

Is it best to do the graduate degree in North America and not in Israel? Does it matter what I major in the undergraduate degree?

[JBI]

Undergraduate degrees are not important, in the sense that most Yale grad students were not Yale undergrad students.

[OrphanPip]

Better to do an undergraduate degree as cheap as possible from a mid-tier university. For graduate degrees your best option is a direct entry PhD program (i.e. a combined MA/PhD program, which are very popular with the Ivy schools now) at the major US universities because they guarantee full funding. If you cannot get into a PhD stream program from undergrad avoid doing a MA in the US as they charge big money with little to no funding, it will put you deep in debt for no reward.

[Prince Smiles]

, do you mean MBA in Business Admin. or in English Lit.?
Yudencow, Business Administration.

[LitNetIsGreat]

A literature degree in the UK (not Scotland where it is free for Scots but not the English, as are all degrees) costs about £30,000 and is worth about 50p in terms of employment.

[yudencow]

Thanks all for answering.

OrphanPip, can you tell me more about the direct PhD programs:
What are my chances as a foreigner that did is BA in Israel to get accepted in North America?
How much do they cost? And is there a chance to get a scholarship as a foreigner?
What can you do afterwords?