The Four Classic Chinese Novels (and other classic Chinese lit)

[Pierre Menard]

So I've been pretty intrigued by these for a fair while and was wondering if I could muster up any discussion from folk who have familiarity with them, whether it be just general thoughts, recommendations on where to start (as well as other Chinese classics), preferences, and especially,thoughts on translations/editions. I'm usually pretty good with researching translations for Western works, but Chinese lit I'm sadly unaware of so I struggle a little more. I've heard the Moss Robert's translation of Romance of the Three Kingdoms is quite good, in particular, but any other thoughts or just general discussion would be appreciated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Great_Classical_Novels

[JBI]

For Three Kingdoms, Moss is the translation to go for, for Water Margin, they say Shapiro is good, going with the more literary brakedown, whereas there is a newer one going with the 120chapter version, for Journey to the West, if you are interested in it, then go with Anthony C. Yu, if not, go with Monkey by Walley. For Jin ping Mei go with Roy, and for Dream of Red Chambers, go with Hawkes (complete version marketed as The Story of the Stone, whereas the abridged is marketed by Penguin as The Dream of the Red Chamber).

[mal4mac]

There was an interesting, recent "In Our Time" discussion of Romance of the Three Kingdoms:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b02ykzh7

[Lykren]

I'm currently reading Hawkes' translation of The Story of the Stone. My impression so far is one of an absorbing and incredibly detailed novel, whose characterizations are both subtle and profound. In other words, I recommend it :)

My only caveat is that I suspect the poetry does not really translate.

I will read the other three when I finish Cao Xueqin's, so I've looked at buying the others. The only problems so far are that Yu's version of Journey to the West is very expensive, and that the Foreign Language press's softcover editions of the Roberts and Shapiro translations are difficult to read (i.e. small print and thin pages).


Good luck and happy reading!

[JBI]

I'm currently reading Hawkes' translation of The Story of the Stone. My impression so far is one of an absorbing and incredibly detailed novel, whose characterizations are both subtle and profound. In other words, I recommend it :)

My only caveat is that I suspect the poetry does not really translate.

I will read the other three when I finish Cao Xueqin's, so I've looked at buying the others. The only problems so far are that Yu's version of Journey to the West is very expensive, and that the Foreign Language press's softcover editions of the Roberts and Shapiro translations are difficult to read (i.e. small print and thin pages).


Good luck and happy reading!

The poetry really doesn't. The poems generally are required to appreciate much of the subtle interaction between characters, as poetry was a major form of communication, and the subtleties and particular usages between characters reveals much of the unexpressed sentiment between people. Still the novel is good, if a bit verbose.

I will be writing a paper on it soon so I don't want to give much a way, but something to consider is - do these girls ever go outside? And do they ever leave their walled off area? In a sense the chamber of which they live is the full extent of their lives - never venturing beyond. It is assumed also they all have bound feet (which are not mentioned, though assumed by most scholars given the culture), so their very mobility and distance they can walk will have been seriously limited. Scary when one thinks of it, that one's life is basically being trapped in a room while one's cousins and relatives come to choose and marry you off to another room.

My recent visit to Anhui allowed me to inquire with the museum keepers of the ancient houses, and they responded - in the Chinese society of the time, it was considered inappropriate for a woman of standing to even see her front door (Chinese houses being layered with doors and gates). Generally in Anhui style architecture, the rich woman would not even go down the stairs of her house, relying on servants to deliver food and other things. Such traits can be seen elsewhere, such as in Sichuan architecture, where up until the end of the Republican era still had "women's quarters" or "red chambers" where girls unmarried would basically live in a prison, awaiting maturity with bound feet, at which time they would be married off to whomever (having never seen them).

[Lykren]

Interesting. I had thought that Bao-Yu's life was very restricted as well, but now that I think of it, at least he gets to go outside - I can't recall a single instance of an unmarried girl leaving the house. And of course Dai-Yu's plight shows some of the trials women had to go through in regards to their marriage.