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Hawkman
08-06-2013, 07:35 AM
Too free to bear their brand of freedom’s weight,
one came whose voice rebellion distilled,
so they made an enemy of the state.

Their yoke, he knew, would only suffocate—
ideas differed on the world they’d build.
Too free to bear their brand of freedom’s weight,

with daily reason, he had learned to hate.
The soldiers came, and through the land they spilled,
so they made an enemy of the state.

Who dared to blaze and flame against this fate
like stars? They fell, legions, in war unskilled,
too free to bear their brand of freedom’s weight.

And yet, more grew, a very human trait
to sow and reap a crop, their ranks refilled
so they made an enemy of the state.

The price was paid in blood—theirs, and their mates’
and now they’re free, all promises fulfilled;
too free to bear their brand of freedom’s weight,
so they made an enemy of the state.

virtuoso
08-07-2013, 09:28 AM
Hawkman I need some clarification. Are you referring to rebels, conscript soldiers, anarchists, or common citizens? I want to read the poem, and get the most I can out of it! You have written a nice, thought-provoking villanelle. I am going to re-read it after your response. I like the pschology of war. It is one of my favorite poem topics.

Hawkman
08-07-2013, 09:37 AM
Thanks for reading virtuoso. Revolutions are called revolutions for good reason. Ultimately, they are cyclical. A successful revolution leads to government. Governments are always unpopular with someone. Consequently, there'll be another revolution - eventually - except in England, of course. Here the population tries to ignore government because it's so ineffectual. Besides, the country's so broke we can't afford to go and invade Europe again - lol.

white camellia
08-07-2013, 10:13 AM
This reads to me like a poststructuralist writing.

Hawkman
08-07-2013, 10:30 AM
Not really. Why do you think it is? The poem isn't nihilistic, merely cynically realistic. It doesn't have to be poststructuralist for that. It's also highly formalised in presentation and technique, and so would have to be considered "structured" as a result. Besides, as with most post-modern fads, which are so loosely defined as to be generally indefinable, ultimately, the term has no meaning. One is left to pick the bones out of the various pronouncements of the likes of Derrida, which are so numerous and self-contradictory, that one is better off just applying some common sense to a text. Read what it says, determine what it is about, assess the nature of its truthfulness in a historical context and then judge whether it's well written or not. Ultimately, whether you agree with the inherent sentiment or not depends on your personal experience and your awareness of, and relationship to, your own reality.

Live and be well - H

white camellia
08-07-2013, 10:45 AM
"Read what it says, determine what it is about, assess the nature of its truthfulness in a historical context and then judge whether it's well written or not. Ultimately, whether you agree with the inherent sentiment or not depends on your personal experience and your awareness of, and relationship to, your own reality."
But I doubt literature or reading literature is all that simple and definite. Can we judge what we think we know? Can we read what there is but there isn't?

virtuoso
08-07-2013, 10:51 AM
Thanks for the clarification, hawkman. It makes good sense to me now!

Hawkman
08-07-2013, 11:13 AM
But I doubt literature or reading literature is all that simple and definite. Can we judge what we think we know? Can we read what there is but there isn't?

We can only judge by what we know. If we think we don't know something in order to judge properly it is our duty as rational inquisitive beings to try to find it out. :D

I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean to say with your second question. If you mean what I think you mean, then it is entirely possible to find things in a text that were not consciously put there by the author. Again, this arises from differences in personal experience. The reader inevitably brings things to a text which can not be foreseen by the author, particularly if the reader's baggage includes theoretical dogma, which may, or may not, be poorly understood, that is, if it's understandable at all. ;)

Certainly ideas can be conveyed, "between the lines" without being overtly stated, and the reader should be able to pick up on these, but it is up to the reader to make the connections to the possible contexts. However, this is less to do with applying any particular critical theory, but more to do with the writer's ability as an author and the readers awareness of the world.

virtuoso: glad to be of service.

Live long and prosper - H

AuntShecky
08-07-2013, 07:01 PM
Kudos to you not only for attempting to tackle a difficult form but also for choosing a serious topic, treated seriously, but not overly earnestly (which is the kiss of death in contemporary literature.)

Couple of issues on the form:
Is there an inversion in l.2? Unlike the case of Latin and other languages, in English, the object usually follows the verb:

one came whose voice rebellion distilled,
one came whose voice distilled rebellion
The only thing is that it disrupts the rhyme scheme.

Yours fooly has a problem with the meter in line 3, repeated,according to the prescribed form, twice. The dominant meter in this particular piece is iambic pentameter, with a few trochees here and there, but I'm concerned about the stresses in line 3:


so they made an enemy of the state.
so THEY made an ENeMY of the STATE.
If the prepositional phrase closing the line is to be read as an anapest, this brings only 4 stressed syllables, and you need five. What if you dropped "so" and inserted "him"after "made"?
They MADE him an ENeMY of the STATE (still only 4.)
What about: So HE beCAME an ENeMY of the STATE.
There are your five stresses. In any event, you might want to rework the line. Or maybe you're fine with it as it is.

You also realize of course, that there is no antecedent for the pronoun, "they," which can, I suppose, be taken in the generic sense of the "powers that be."

You've got the required ten syllables in this line, but the spondee makes the stresses seem a little "off":

like stars? They fell, legions, in war unskilled,
like STARS? They FELL,LEGions, in WAR unSKILLED.

The paradoxical line follows is astute, a repeat of the opening, made even more significant here and may be the best line in the poem:

too free to bear their brand of freedom’s weight.

Overall, this is an honorable effort of which you should be proud.

Hawkman
08-08-2013, 03:38 AM
Hi Auntie, and thanks for reading.

Yes, I hold my hand up to the inversion in line 2, but I dispute your reading of the stresses in the a2 refrain. Not the first time I've had this argument over so! :D The line starts with a troche, "so they made an Enemy of the state". I wonder if it would be more obvious if I'd put a comma in after the so.

"like STARS? They FELL, LEGions, in WAR unskilled," I don't have a problem with. The comma after fell creates a pause between the stresses which allows the line to work.

I'm not sure how well the shift from making (one person) an 'enemy of the state' to one or many making an enemy of the state comes across. It could have been made a little easier if I'd not adhered so rigidly to the dictates of the form. When exercising a little flexibility in the refrains it's easier to shift the emphasis and make lines fit better. This is my first attempt at a villanelle since 'Pripyat', which also had some issues with clarity of meaning, I think.

The parody of Dylan Thomas' poem, in the other thread, definitely works though :D (Provided you don't spend too much time counting the stresses in the a2 refrain :svengo: )

Thanks again for reading Auntie, and for your thoughtful observations.

Live and be well - H

blank|verse
08-08-2013, 01:16 PM
Ding-ding! Round 2 in the Villanelle-Off! (Or was when it was first posted - apologies for the delayed response, Hawk...)

But this one certainly lands a heavy blow - excellent stuff. In fact, I can't think of a better poem I've read on the forum for a while. And as much as I enjoy your more lighthearted output, I definitely prefer this type of poem, which is much stronger for all sorts of reasons.

I'll have to come back to it in a bit more detail, because, as has been helpfully pointed out, there are a few issues, but on the whole, I think they are far outweighed by the poem's strengths.

It reminded me of the poetry of James Fenton, who has often written about war; and also a villanelle called 'Clair de Lune' by the outstanding American poet Timothy Donnelly, from his book 'The Cloud Corporation' (Wave, 2010 / Picador, 2011), which is highly recommended. Good stuff.

Hawkman
08-08-2013, 06:15 PM
Thanks for reading b/v and for finding it worthy ;) Also, thanks for the recommend. I'm going to seek it out. You are hereby forgiven for being late :D hope you'll have something to share with us soon.

Live and be well - H

Whisper
08-08-2013, 11:27 PM
Hi Hawkman,

A nice villanelle indeed, I stumbled a bit on the second refrain, I suppose I was expecting a nine syllable line with a headless iamb, but the shift on the final foot, albeit a bit late, became smoother with repetition, rather than tiresome, so it's not much to complain about.

I like the way you developed the refrains, and the use of end stops. Very poignant.

Did I inspire you to write a villanelle?

I am impressed.

Best

AuntShecky
08-09-2013, 12:17 AM
----Whoops

Hawkman
08-09-2013, 05:06 AM
Whisper: Thanks for reading. Yes, you did prod me into giving the villanelle a whirl. One seldom sees them posted and I've always been rather wary of them, being much more comfortable with sonnets, rondeaus and, of course, ballads (which I can write in my sleep) :D The inspiration for the poem was the phrase, "enemy of the state."

I'm delighted that this one works for you, despite its quirks. It's always nice to impress someone :D

Auntie: I don't blame you for your interpretation of the stress pattern in the second refrain. "So they" could be read as "grammatical words" and appear to be unstressed. In fact the pattern of stresses is made even more complicated when using 'contrastive stress,' which would be legitimate reading in different parts of the poem. :D "so they made an enemy of the state. Doesn't bare thinking about ;)

Live and be well - H

Haunted
08-11-2013, 11:52 AM
Are you on some kind of war path Hawk :D? The rhyme is a bit too perfect for me — if there's such a thing, and the repetition makes it a bit too singsongy which goes against the solemnness of the subject. Not to say there aren't moments where it shines, here in particular:

Who dared to blaze and flame against this fate
like stars? They fell, legions, in war unskilled,
too free to bear their brand of freedom’s weight.

Hawkman
08-11-2013, 07:54 PM
I dunno Haunt, I guess it's just my natural belligerence floating to the surface :D Not sure what to say about your comment on the rhyme scheme. I guess villanelles aren't to everyone's taste and they do take some pulling off. Glad you found something to like in it though :) Thanks for reading.

Live long and prosper - H

qimissung
08-11-2013, 08:58 PM
That's a good poem, Hawkman. But I think you already knew that.

Hawkman
08-12-2013, 08:03 AM
Thanks qim. It's pleasing to be appreciated, but I do have reservations about it. Feels a bit raw in places, but maybe that's a good thing...

Live and be well - H