What Drives so many Writers to Drink?

[Seasider]

I read a review today of a book by Olivia Laing which discusses six great American writers; Tennessee Williams, Fitzgerald,Hemingway, Cheever, Carver and Berryman all of whom battled with alcohol addiction.
. She could have included Faulkner, Highsmith and Chandler if she had wanted to. She suggests that all these writers were tormented by a sense of inadequacy and self hate. And most were ambivalent or at least conflicted about their sexuality. Is it just that the writers she chose were alcoholics or is there something about a life in writing....loneliness, rejection, bad reviews etc that brings it on?

[hannah_arendt]

Writers are humans so they have the same reasons to start drinking or taking drugs. Possibgly in many cases they cannot cope with for instance loneliness, being rejected or they don`t feel happy.

[JBI]

Almost all the major poets of Chinese history were, at least portrayed in their writing, intense alcoholics. It is a cultural thing mixed with a sense that all humans are slaves to addiction, and writers are no exception. We like to think of the writer as moral or at least culturally appropriate in demeanor - such was the intention during the 18th century, but the truth is artists of all kind are human, and we cannot link their personal conduct with the worth of their work - Luckily in English we do not have a cult of morality that China seems to hold for its artists, treating them as cultural exemplars when they were mostly alcoholic womanizing hedonists, as quick to bind their granddaughter's feet as they were to go out and purchase a girl with similarly bound feet.

We should not think of artists as heroes, but rather as creators. We should also not consider an artist's morality, or social virtue, or personality in our evaluation of artwork, which need be judged on its own inherent merits.

[PeterL]

Does a higher percentage of writers drink than the general population. I suspect that writers drink abbout the same as plumbers, mechanics, stock brokers, teachers, and any other profession; although there may be niches of criminal behavior in which there is more drinking than in other professions.

[qimissung]

There does seem to be a connection, however, between depression and creativity. These are some highlights from "The Creative Brain" by Nancy C. Andreasen (which I haven't read , btw):

2) Creative people have characteristics that make them more vulnerable

According to Andreasen, our openness to new experiences, tolerance for ambiguity, and the way we approach life enables us to perceive things in a fresh and novel way. Less creative types “quickly respond to situations based on what they have been told by people in authority”, while creatives live in a more fluid and nebulous (read: incredibly stressful) world.

“Such traits can lead to feelings of depression or social alienation,” writes Andreasen. They sure can.

Luckily, though creatives experience higher rates of mood disorders than the general population, the extremes of highs and lows tend to be brief, balanced by long periods of normal affect, or euthymia. During these respite periods, creatives frequently reflect upon and draw from memories and experiences of their darker times to create their best art.

3) “A highly original person may seem odd or strange to others.”

According to Andreasen, the creative person "may have to confront criticism or rejection for being too questioning, or too unconventional."

"Too much openness means living on the edge. Sometimes the person may drop over the edge..."

If being creative means being odd, I would far rather be odd than be normal (proof being the fact that I do things like interviewing strangers at birthday parties if they make the gross error of telling me something really cool). If you’re a little weird too, apparently we’re not alone! Such a relief.

4) Creative brains have difficulty “gating” sensory input.

As mentioned above, creatives are at higher risk for mental illness (I can vouch for that personally) and according to Andreasen it at least partially stems from “a problem with filtering or gating the many stimuli that flow into the brain.” For this reason some writers, myself included, organize their lives in order to be isolated from human contact for long blocks of time.

Maybe some of that social isolation and sensitivity to stress lead to alcoholism. Or debauchery. I suppose it could go either way.

I found it here:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/prescriptions-life/201204/little-weird-prone-depression-blame-your-creative-brain

[OrphanPip]

Williams alcoholism probably derived in part from the loss of his sister, who developed schizophrenia and became an invalid after she was lobotomized. He was reputably very close to her and his drug and alcohol abuse started after she became ill. Then there is the fact that being pretty much an out homosexual from the 40s to the 60s was not tons of fun.

[PeterL]

In fact, writers are not high on the list of professions in which people drink heavily.
Writers aren't even on the top ten list1. 1
http://www.businessinsider.com/most-alcoholic-jobs-2011-10?op=1

Occupation and Alcoholism: Cause or Effect? A Controlled Study of Recruits to the Drink Trade
http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/10826087809039289?journalCode=sum

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_occupation_has_the_highest_alcoholism_rate

[Ecurb]

In fact, writers are not high on the list of professions in which people drink heavily.
Writers aren't even on the top ten list1. 1
http://www.businessinsider.com/most-alcoholic-jobs-2011-10?op=1

Occupation and Alcoholism: Cause or Effect? A Controlled Study of Recruits to the Drink Trade
http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/10826087809039289?journalCode=sum

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_occupation_has_the_highest_alcoholism_rate

Good grief! Shoe machine operators are twice as likely as normal to die from alcoholism? Where do they get these stats? How many shoe machine operators were studied? Were they all drinking champagne from glass slippers?

Roofers makes sense, not because roofers are more likely to drink than anyone else, but because they are more likely to careen off high rooftops if they are drunk.

Also, why do 43 alcohol related deaths out of 2921 deaths for shoe machine operators rank higher than 121 alcohol-related deaths out of 3173 deaths for dry wall installers? I can only assume that whoever did this study was bombed.

[mortalterror]

What drives so many ordinary people to drink? Writers are people after all and victim to the same temptations and pitfalls as the rest of us. There does seem to be a bit more of that in the lifestyle though, so it may be partly a bohemian thing, the way that so many musicians or comedians get hooked on drugs. I believe I've heard that a great number of models do coke and heroin too. Some vices are just part of a culture and come with the job. The drug of choice is probably a matter of fashion and timing since in Coleridge's day it appears to be opium; but I'm sure there is probably a job or lifestyle where the culturally acceptable thing to do is to smoke reefer. Ravers are really into mdma or ecstasy right now, and certain hippy types seem more fond of psychedelic hallucinogens like LSD, mushrooms, or DMT. I guess what I'm saying is that it's cultural and depends on who you hang out with.

[JBI]

What drives so many ordinary people to drink? Writers are people after all and victim to the same temptations and pitfalls as the rest of us. There does seem to be a bit more of that in the lifestyle though, so it may be partly a bohemian thing, the way that so many musicians or comedians get hooked on drugs. I believe I've heard that a great number of models do coke and heroin too. Some vices are just part of a culture and come with the job. The drug of choice is probably a matter of fashion and timing since in Coleridge's day it appears to be opium; but I'm sure there is probably a job or lifestyle where the culturally acceptable thing to do is to smoke reefer. Ravers are really into mdma or ecstasy right now, and certain hippy types seem more fond of psychedelic hallucinogens like LSD, mushrooms, or DMT. I guess what I'm saying is that it's cultural and depends on who you hang out with.

Those lifestyles are of a time, and part of a broader culture. Not every prostitute frequenting alcoholic in 19th century Paris was a famous writer. Not every alcoholic shell-shocked retired soldier was a Hemingway.

Rock and drugs went hand in hand, culturally, as a life-style, the same way Reggae and marijuana are closely linked. These are temporal cultures, not applicable as something determined by their artistic creativity, but by the context in which they grew up.

[PeterL]

Good grief! Shoe machine operators are twice as likely as normal to die from alcoholism? Where do they get these stats? How many shoe machine operators were studied? Were they all drinking champagne from glass slippers?

Have ever seen shoe machine operators at work? It is almost as interesting as watching paint dry, but they can make decent money.


Roofers makes sense, not because roofers are more likely to drink than anyone else, but because they are more likely to careen off high rooftops if they are drunk.

If they drink after work, then that it not an issue.


Also, why do 43 alcohol related deaths out of 2921 deaths for shoe machine operators rank higher than 121 alcohol-related deaths out of 3173 deaths for dry wall installers? I can only assume that whoever did this study was bombed.

There wasn't much on methodology. The item that you mentioned might be valid, butthere's no way to tell.

One issue that didn't seem to be addressed was whether people become alcoholics as a result of a profession, or if alcoholics are more likely to select certain professions.

[cacian]

who knows may be what they write depresses them and so they drink.
writing should be a hobby alight hearted affair less gruesome and more fun thoughts instead which should bounce the person rather then drive them to despair.
the content of so many stories are so depressing that I am not surprised drinking one passion for the said writer to forget it all I guess.

[Paulclem]

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/jul/28/what-drives-writers-to-drink-echo-spring-extract?INTCMP=SRCH

I read this interesting article in the Guardian about six US writers who were alcoholic.

[Buh4Bee]

In the article, Williams stated this:
American writers nearly all have problems with alcohol because there's a great deal of tension involved in writing, you know that. And it's all right up to a certain age, and then you begin to need a little nervous support that you get from drinking."

I think writing is a very taxing and emotionally strenuous process and drinking helps to numb some of the intense pain writing honestly causes.

[PeterL]

In the article, Williams stated this:
American writers nearly all have problems with alcohol because there's a great deal of tension involved in writing, you know that. And it's all right up to a certain age, and then you begin to need a little nervous support that you get from drinking."

I think writing is a very taxing and emotionally strenuous process and drinking helps to numb some of the intense pain writing honestly causes.

I guess that plumbers, fishermen, etc. must have a bit more taxing and emotionally strenuous work.

[Buh4Bee]

I think stress is only one factor that may contribute to people picking up the bottle, but many factors that drive a person to become an alcoholic. ;)

[stlukesguild]

I don't know about writers, but this painter is drinking right now...

http://justbeer.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/southern-tier-creme-brulee.gif

... because it tastes great... and feels even better... especially after a long day painting.

Ask me the same question in a couple of weeks and the answer will be:

"Because I teach f***in' public school in the ghetto, you idiot!"

:(:cheers2:

[cacian]

I don't know about writers, but this painter is drinking right now...

http://justbeer.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/southern-tier-creme-brulee.gif

... because it tastes great... and feels even better... especially after a long day painting.

Ask me the same question in a couple of weeks and the answer will be:

"Because I teach f***in' public school in the ghetto, you idiot!"



:(:cheers2:

interesting picture of cows on the bottle. crème brulee stout however is rather intriguing it must be an acquired taste ;)

[cacian]

I think stress is only one factor that may contribute to people picking up the bottle, but many factors that drive a person to become an alcoholic. ;)

it could also be the fact that it is easy to get a bottle anywhere anytime. alcohol a gogo as the French would say.;)

[tonywalt]

Creative people/artists are pre-disposed to sensitivity, that's why they can observe and then create based on those observations(whether it be a painting or writing). I would imagine it is a kind of imaginative or sensory baggage that gets too heavy. Sensitivity people and depression know each other very well.

[Seasider]

A big part of most artists' lives is public scrutiny, rejection and criticism. They must invite it in order to be seen ,heard, read etc. Virginia Woolf was not an alcoholic but she experienced episodes of extreme anxiety and depression after publication.

[cacian]

A big part of most artists' lives is public scrutiny, rejection and criticism. They must invite it in order to be seen ,heard, read etc. Virginia Woolf was not an alcoholic but she experienced episodes of extreme anxiety and depression after publication.

About Woolf I would imagine that would happen to anyone. rejection is bound to feel hard on anyone's feelings. not knowing the outcomes of what ones has just uncovered to the world to see is also traumatic.
criticism is partly to blame :)

[JBI]

Creative people/artists are pre-disposed to sensitivity, that's why they can observe and then create based on those observations(whether it be a painting or writing). I would imagine it is a kind of imaginative or sensory baggage that gets too heavy. Sensitivity people and depression know each other very well.

I am not sure I can agree with this. I think most of the most beautiful creations can be termed not from "feeling" but from technical skill. There is no feeling in, for instance, the major architectural structures in Shanghai, but there is still an artistic sense of accomplishment in the architecture.

[stlukesguild]

Creative people/artists are pre-disposed to sensitivity...

I would question this as well. Artists as a whole are no more "sensitive" than anyone else. They simply have the ability to give their perceptions and ideas... however sensitive they may may... an artistic form.

[qimissung]

It actually doesn't say that others are not sensitive, only that artists are.

[qimissung]

I am not sure I can agree with this. I think most of the most beautiful creations can be termed not from "feeling" but from technical skill. There is no feeling in, for instance, the major architectural structures in Shanghai, but there is still an artistic sense of accomplishment in the architecture.

I think architects are artists, as are artisans. And I think the best writers and artists work from a fusion of feeling and very high technical skill. Having one does not presuppose you cannot have the other necessarily. What is any kind of writing or art on canvas but a medium put on paper (so to speak). It's all symbolic and all infused with the feeling of the artist. I think e.e. cummings said it best..."since feeling is first..."

Interestingly, though, architects are rarely known for either their debauchery or their depression. Or at least as well known for these things. I think Frank Lloyd Wright had a pretty wild and crazy life. Maybe not up to Picasso's standards, but still.

I don't think more writers are drinkers or alcoholics than the rest of the general public, but just that they have got the reputation for it somehow.

[WICKES]

...and general misery and depression? It is a question that has long bothered me. So many of my favourite writers were alcoholics (the English-British poet Philip Larkin, the novelists Evelyn Waugh and Kingsley Amis) I guess you can't rule out the events of their personal lives (loss of loved ones, abuse in childhood etc), but on the whole I suppose artists tend to be more sensitive than the average person and sensitivity always makes life harder.

[Der Prozess]

Pain.

But it's a bad idea.

[hannah_arendt]

Pain.

But it's a bad idea.
And solitude.

[Der Prozess]

And solitude.

And you think solitude doesn't cause pain?

[hannah_arendt]

And you think solitude doesn't cause pain?

Solitude is a cause of pain, but not the pain.

[Nebogipfel]

Think same thing as usual. Relief. That they are also creative is coincidental.

[Der Prozess]

Solitude is a cause of pain, but not the pain.

So how does solitude make people want to drink in your estimation?

Obviously solitude does not always cause pain.

[Delta40]

Not everyone who experiences solitude and writes, drinks do they?

[Der Prozess]

Not everyone who experiences solitude and writes, drinks do they?

Nope.

[Delta40]

Then It's how the person themself responds to solitude.

[Der Prozess]

Then It's how the person themself responds to solitude.

The concept of solitude in relation to drinking was not my suggestion and I honestly disagree with it. You may wish to discuss this with the member who instigated the thought.

[hannah_arendt]

Not everyone who experiences solitude and writes, drinks do they?

Of course that not every writer feeling alone starts drinking. However it happens sometimes.

[PeterL]

Then It's how the person themself responds to solitude.

No, it is a matter of brain chemistry; how the brain responds to alcohol and other chemicals. It has nothing to do with solitude or writing.

[astrum]

I once read that creative geniuses are more prone to depression and other mental illnesses

[Paulclem]

There's the prevailing culture, and also the outsider stimulus. I'm not saying that they drank to achieve outsider insights, but, as part of the culture of drinking, they perhaps found it useful to participate in order to clarify their view, or they found it clarified their view.

[Nebogipfel]

Is there a statistic saying x% are alcoholics? Because I think alcoholism in literature is still a minor factor. Writers are human after all, aren't they?

[Buh4Bee]

What about the nature of the writers' drinking culture?

[PeterL]

Is there a statistic saying x% are alcoholics? Because I think alcoholism in literature is still a minor factor. Writers are human after all, aren't they?


There are statistics, and writers aren't very high on the list of professions with lots of alcoholics. I posted links to a couple of sturdies earlier, but I can't remember who is tops.

[hannah_arendt]

There are statistics, and writers aren't very high on the list of professions with lots of alcoholics. I posted links to a couple of sturdies earlier, but I can't remember who is tops.

In Poland policemen are considered to be acoholics, without insulting anybody of course.

[JuniperWoolf]

Think same thing as usual. Relief. That they are also creative is coincidental.

No it isn't, creativity has a correlation to mental illness (there's a whole wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creativity_and_mental_illness) on it, academic sources at the bottom) and mental illness obviously has a correlation to alcoholism. Correlation doesn't equal causation, but it doesn't equal coincidence either.


I don't think more writers are drinkers or alcoholics than the rest of the general public, but just that they have got the reputation for it somehow.

I bet they don't drink more than the working class (source: my upbringing was about as working class as it comes, so many alcoholics). Labourers might have a lower tendancy towards mental illness on paper, but thats probably because the rough mining and logging types are conditioned to be solitary manly types and instead try to drink their problems away.


I don't know about writers, but this painter is drinking right now...

http://justbeer.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/southern-tier-creme-brulee.gif

I've never seen one of those before, but it looks fantastic. Crème brûlée + beer. :drool5:

[Billy the Poet]

I have to frankly state I find the whole notion of solitude being the cause behind one's inclination to drink or use other addictive substances ridiculous, especially in the case of writers. Solitude is nether the cause nor the result of pain. Solitude is also neither the reason to celebrate. Solitude is the way one may spend his/her time and a lot shall depend on the choice the person makes in his/her attitude toward it. In case of writers, it is common for most to seek solitude in order to focus on their work and step away from the social life outside their rooms. It is more than advised for one to do so, especially when he/she is still mastering the skills and improving talents. Solitude is a bliss, if one is serious about his work and desires to excel in it. It is the best method or setting, if one is ready to put anything aside for the sole priority of serving his/her potential to self-actualization. Yes, solitude is inevitable if one does indeed consider to become a writer, for instance. You cannot writer a book while continuously socializing and visiting places with a company. You cannot write a book while carrying a conversation. Some writers even need a complete state of seclusion from anybody and anything, thus it is not unusual for them to shut selves in attics or basements and fully immerse into their work.

So, I shall conclude solitude has nothing to do with one's addiction. On the opposite, it plays a great role in one's progress.

My question to the thread followers would be, how grounded do you find the notion, or assumption, that addictive substances may have a great effect on one's creativity and expression? It was initially believed these serve to transfer us to another state of conscious, and although they do so indeed, that would not come without side-effects and consequences. We do have many writers, some very talented, who would be using these substances at some point in their lives, especially when writing their works or attempting to coup with depression. Do you believe the claim substances do enhance once's creativity and application of certain talents and skills?

[Seasider]

In the case of writers, my first assumption was that the necessity of submitting work to agents,publishers,critics and eventually readers, at every stage brought risks of rejection even for established writers. One may remember the devastating effect that criticism by the critics of Edinburgh's literary establishment had on John Keats. And I already mentioned Woolf and the anxiety that even the preemptive thought of negative criticism produced in her.
Most people can avoid all but the mildest criticism if they do their work,whatever it is,adequately, safely, honestly and promptly. But writers and other artists cannot develop a career without putting their work into the public arena and inviting critical judgement. If they live in a state of fear and anxiety, no wonder some may try to drown their sorrows.
They may have to endure solitude to produce their work but solitude is not to be hoped for after the critics and the public are involved.