Frankenstein

[kev67]

Could Frankenstein be considered a science fiction book? If so, is it the first?

[Lykren]

I suppose one could argue that, but as ever it depends on how you care to define your subject (in this case the question is, how, exactly, do you want to define science fiction).

[Charles Darnay]

It is a science fiction (by any definition it is hard to argue that it is not).That being said, many try to muddle sci-fi and fantasy, often squeezing them together. In Orlando Furioso there is an envisioning of a voyage to the moon: it is not all that scientific - but it involves space travel, a tenant of sci-fi, doesn't it?

I would argue that the first real "science fiction" is Gulliver's Travels: a fictional work playing on the different aspects of scientific discovery (particularly in the third book).

[kev67]

I notice there is a Mary Shelley sub-forum, so maybe this thread is in the wrong place...anyway

I had not heard of Orlando Furioso, but Gulliver's Travels did cross my mind. It was so long ago since I read Gulliver's Travels that I can't remember what happened in the later books. The first book was good, and then the second, then they all started to bore me. I cannot remember whether there was much science in it.

Frankenstein crosses a lot of boxes: it is 19th century literature, science fiction, horror, gothic, and women's literature. I read a graphic novel adaption of it once, but I remember when I started reading the novel that it seemed rather turgid, so I gave up on it.

[Bustrofedon]

The Phaeacians in the Odyssey is proto-sci-fi.

[wreade1872]

The Blazing-World by Margaret Cavendish has parallel worlds, astral projection and submarines made of gold (aswell as Lice-Men, Spider-Men, Owl-Men etc.), written in 1666.
Its fairly decent although its best if you approach it thinking your going to read a philosophical essay rather than a piece of sci-fi.

"though I have neither Power, Time nor Occasion, to be a great Conqueror, like Alexander, or Cesar; yet, rather than not be Mistress of a World, since Fortune and the Fates would give me none, I have made One of my own" - Blazing World intro.

[kev67]

The Blazing-World by Margaret Cavendish has parallel worlds, astral projection and submarines made of gold (aswell as Lice-Men, Spider-Men, Owl-Men etc.), written in 1666.
Its fairly decent although its best if you approach it thinking your going to read a philosophical essay rather than a piece of sci-fi.

"though I have neither Power, Time nor Occasion, to be a great Conqueror, like Alexander, or Cesar; yet, rather than not be Mistress of a World, since Fortune and the Fates would give me none, I have made One of my own" - Blazing World intro.

Sounds interesting.

[LitNetIsGreat]

I personally wouldn't class it has science fiction, I'd class it as gothic fiction, but I suppose you could argue either way.

Amongst other books I'm reading it again for about the third time, I like it and think it is a great novel.

[wordeater]

Could Frankenstein be considered a science fiction book? If so, is it the first?

Yes, and yes.

The story is based on an invention by a scientist, which isn't the case yet in Gulliver's Travels. That's a fantastic adventure rather.

It's true that not all SF stories have an actual invention in it. E.g. in E.T. there's just an extraterrestrial visiting our planet. I suppose nowadays all stories involving life in space are considered SF.

[PeterL]

Could Frankenstein be considered a science fiction book? If so, is it the first?

Frankenstein certainly is science fiction, but it is far from the first work of science fiction. "Cyrano de Bergerac's works L'Autre Monde: ou les États et Empires de la Lune (Comical History of the States and Empires of the Moon) (published posthumously, 1657) and Les États et Empires du Soleil (The States and Empires of the Sun) (1662) are classics of early modern science fiction." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrano_de_Bergerac
The publication dates are iffy, because there were other versions that were published earlier.

[NedSiegel]

Yes, and yes.

The story is based on an invention by a scientist, which isn't the case yet in Gulliver's Travels. That's a fantastic adventure rather.

It's true that not all SF stories have an actual invention in it. E.g. in E.T. there's just an extraterrestrial visiting our planet. I suppose nowadays all stories involving life in space are considered SF.


Agreed. And I'd go as far as saying that it would have been classified as science fiction had the genre existed back then. The only reason it is not widely regarded as sci fi today is that it didn't start out that way.

[NedSiegel]

Frankenstein certainly is science fiction, but it is far from the first work of science fiction. "Cyrano de Bergerac's works L'Autre Monde: ou les États et Empires de la Lune (Comical History of the States and Empires of the Moon) (published posthumously, 1657) and Les États et Empires du Soleil (The States and Empires of the Sun) (1662) are classics of early modern science fiction." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrano_de_Bergerac
The publication dates are iffy, because there were other versions that were published earlier.

This raises the question of when does fantasy end and science fiction begin? Gilgamesh, for example, could also be seen today as some sort of science fiction, as it talks about concepts that were not part of the everyday reality of people who lived back then, such as immortality and triumph over nature, and creatures with superpowers. Since science back then was 90% superstition, you may say it was based on scientific principals.

This begs another question: what is the first literary novel that talked about a future period (I don't mean religious prophesy)?

[cafolini]

I see that side by side with religious prophesy the Bible also offers historical accounts stated as facts.

[hannah_arendt]

However, it sounds a little bit strange for me, I think that "Frankenstein" can be called an early example of science fiction.

[PeterL]

This raises the question of when does fantasy end and science fiction begin? Gilgamesh, for example, could also be seen today as some sort of science fiction, as it talks about concepts that were not part of the everyday reality of people who lived back then, such as immortality and triumph over nature, and creatures with superpowers. Since science back then was 90% superstition, you may say it was based on scientific principals.



I think that calling Gilgamesh science fiction is pushing the definition to the point of ceasing to be meaningful. Like most pre 18th century literature it was partly fantastic, and, if someone wrote it now, then it would be most likely published as fantasy.


This begs another question: what is the first literary novel that talked about a future period (I don't mean religious prophesy)?

"The early Japanese tale of "Urashima Tarō" involves traveling forwards in time to a distant future,[14] and was first described in the Nihongi (720).[15] It was about a young fisherman named Urashima Taro who visits an undersea palace and stays there for three days. After returning home to his village, he finds himself three hundred years in the future, where he is long forgotten, his house in ruins, and his family long dead.[14]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_science_fiction#Ancient_and_early_moder n_precursors

The Time Machine was an early one in the actual subgenre of science fiction, but tehre als were folktales about people going into the future under Puck's hill or some such place.

That Wiki article is excellent. I was generally familiar with early science fiction and some other fantasic literature, there are many things mentioned in that article that I have not heard of before.

[Diar624]

i would agree to call it more gothic, but its is "science" fiction in a way because the methods used to create "life" through alchemy and electricity are ahead of their time in 1818 when first published. also, i just finished reading Scott de Hart's Shelley Unbound, which gives strong evidence that Percy, and not Mary, wrote the novel. i'll be posting my review of the book next Wednesday on my blog: www.apoetsperspective.com

[NedSiegel]

"The early Japanese tale of "Urashima Tarō" involves traveling forwards in time to a distant future,[14] and was first described in the Nihongi (720).[15] It was about a young fisherman named Urashima Taro who visits an undersea palace and stays there for three days. After returning home to his village, he finds himself three hundred years in the future, where he is long forgotten, his house in ruins, and his family long dead.[14]".

Thanks! I think I'm going to see if it's available online and read it. Sounds like Rip Van Winkle could have been based on it.

[Eiseabhal]

Sci-fi is just "What If..." so yep Kev it fits.

[astrum]

As an aside, here's an interesting video/documentary about Frankenstein:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-Hx4MrWB1Y

[NedSiegel]

Sci-fi is just "What If..." so yep Kev it fits.

True that SF is "what if", but then so is every work of fiction:

What if you realize that your retarded friend poses a danger to others, but you don't want to turn him over to the authorities? (Of Mice and Men)
What if someone was murdered but there are no suspects? (the premise of most detective novels)
What if the most awkward, seemingly half-witted son of the imperial family becomes emperor of Rome? (I, Claudius).

And so on. To be truly science fiction, a book needs to do more than that. Maybe: "what if this and that happened, AND it's set in a futuristic era with technology no available to us today?"

[djanders_]

Could Frankenstein be considered a science fiction book? If so, is it the first?

When I first read the question, I quickly decided the answer would be No. After thinking about it though, I think that Frankenstein could indeed be considered science fiction. I think of science fiction as a part of science that isn't part of reality at the time which certainly applies to Frankenstein during the time Mary Shelley wrote it. I wouldn't say it's the first science fiction work though as there are many other examples that pre-date Frankenstein.

[Sebastien]

Does feminism play a big role in Frankenstein?

[Sebastien]

Where can examples of feminism be located in text?

[kev67]

Does feminism play a big role in Frankenstein?

I don't think there is an awful lot of feminism in Frankenstein, despite the author being Mary Wollstonecraft's daughter.