Do you ever ask yourself the forbidden question?

[Nacht-Jagen]

If you deserve to live?

I do. Every night. I constantly question my worth... And if I deserve to live with the people of this world... I'm repeatedly sking myself, "Who would miss me anyway?" "Would anyone even come to my funeral?" "It'll only hurt me right?" It's the fear of hurting those around me, that stops me from slitting my wrists or pulling the trigger. What if those people weren't there? Nothing would stop me from ending my life... That's a scary thought... One I'm constantly thinking.

[cacian]

Hi Nacht wow i did not expect such topic especially when i opened the thread. i thought it was something to do with some sexual fantasy LOL
i admit it never crosses my mind, this is the first time i hear of it.
the expression 'forbidden question'' does make such feelings rather pristine as if taboo needing reassurance.
''life versus dying'' there is no such concept for life is mightier death is short lived gone and dusted. life still remains no matter how much death is for the taking. i think rethinking your feelings in this way is worth engaging.
why leave life when it makes us and yet still stays whilst we come and go? what shall it do without us if we all decided to quit before our time is due? giving up on life is giving it up on its meaning because even though death awaits sometimes in a near future life is forever wielding and that is worth thinking about.
we must live for others to follow. by departing too early we have in fact cut short other incoming lives our future generations. aren't they worth thinking about?

[hannah_arendt]

I think that you are too young to think about it. Focus on yourself, your life here and now and try to live in the best way you can.

[Charles Darnay]

There is nothing wrong with thinking this way. What is wrong though, is thinking there is something wrong with you for thinking this way and asking such questions.

If you need help, ask for it.

[cafolini]

There is nothing wrong with thinking this way. What is wrong though, is thinking there is something wrong with you for thinking this way and asking such questions.

If you need help, ask for it.

True. But that is the normal nature of the depressive personality. Would never ask for help openly. Interestingly, the case of Silvia Plath, for example, is a very extreme case, where even Hugues was depressive, and even the son was depressive, and one by one executed suicide. Different not in the nature but in the extreme. Usually the boyfriend is not depressive, but rather the target.

[The Atheist]

If you deserve to live?

I do. Every night. I constantly question my worth... And if I deserve to live with the people of this world... I'm repeatedly sking myself, "Who would miss me anyway?" "Would anyone even come to my funeral?" "It'll only hurt me right?" It's the fear of hurting those around me, that stops me from slitting my wrists or pulling the trigger. What if those people weren't there? Nothing would stop me from ending my life... That's a scary thought... One I'm constantly thinking.

You really need to be talking to someone in person rather than some anonymous people on the internet.

You're clearly in a dark place and you can get out the other side, but it's much, much easier if you seek professional help. It doesn't even need to mean psychoactive drugs, because many people can be helped by exercise, sleep and dietary help.

Do yourself and your family a favour and make a phone call - there must be a help line in your country.

[Darcy88]

If you deserve to live?

I do. Every night. I constantly question my worth... And if I deserve to live with the people of this world... I'm repeatedly sking myself, "Who would miss me anyway?" "Would anyone even come to my funeral?" "It'll only hurt me right?" It's the fear of hurting those around me, that stops me from slitting my wrists or pulling the trigger. What if those people weren't there? Nothing would stop me from ending my life... That's a scary thought... One I'm constantly thinking.

I've been there before, plenty of times, and I still get those thoughts here and there, even though my mood has for quite some time been good. I've never taken anti-depressents but I know people who have and say they can really help. I use exercise, meditation and nature to get through such times. Going to the forest or the beach really works wonders to clear my mind. I think there is a lot of falseness and ugliness to human society which exposure to nature can help one cope with. Exercise and meditation can also work miraculously to improve one's mood.

Talk to your doctor and try the things I mentioned above.

[Ecurb]

"Use every man after his desert, and who should ’scape whipping?" -- Hamlet

"There is none righteous, no, not one." -- Romans

[PeterL]

If you deserve to live?

I do. Every night. I constantly question my worth... And if I deserve to live with the people of this world... I'm repeatedly sking myself, "Who would miss me anyway?" "Would anyone even come to my funeral?" "It'll only hurt me right?" It's the fear of hurting those around me, that stops me from slitting my wrists or pulling the trigger. What if those people weren't there? Nothing would stop me from ending my life... That's a scary thought... One I'm constantly thinking.

I never imagined that question might be thought to be forbidden by some people, but the answer is: Of course I deserve to live. The rest of those pesky humans are of no importance, but I am.

[Lykren]

I often ask myself whether I deserve to live, mostly because I'm a useless lump of a person sponging off his parents. The answer is always no, but I don't really feel like killing myself, so the status quo continues.

[Phocion]

You will not get a better answer than this from any doctor from my experience:


I think that you are too young to think about it. Focus on yourself, your life here and now and try to live in the best way you can.

And you will frequently get worse advice.

Just don't put yourself into the hands of mental health professionals like some seem to be suggesting, that will be a quick path to turning your abstract thinking into a reality.

And for God's sake don't let anyone put you on anti-depressants unless you are literally reaching for the gun. I could not think of many things worse to do to a young person, seriously. Doctors are so quick to get young people on this stuff nowadays, they are even prescribing them for anxiety and pain, and i wouldn't be surprised if it was down to some intense lobbying from pharmaceutical companies. These drugs are dangerous, they have loads of side-effects, and are poorly understood, yet they are readily being prescribed to young people going through a normal state of depression brought on by the transition from adolescence to adulthood.

Be careful, and don't trust doctors blindly - they are often following a preset manual handed down to them by people who don't know anything about you or your situation. Your average GP will not know all that much about Neuropsychopharmacology, so don't let them **** around with your brain!

[JuniperWoolf]

I think Phocion's advice not to seek therapy is bad. With this as his reasoning:


that will be a quick path to turning your abstract thinking into a reality

It really seems to be suggesting that it's more healthy to supress thoughts and emotions than work them out in a private setting with another person to talk to who has experience in what you're dealing with. That's pretty much all therapy is, with the added bonus of CBT, brain tricks to use in case of emergencies or to use daily to keep you grounded. Just telling someone your problems can be very cathartic, I can't see how it would be better to keep them festering in your own head.

I do agree that antidepressants are too readily prescribed. We live in a medicated society where happy ads are shoved down our throats at regular intervals, it's gotten to the point where the collective public think that all negative emotions without an obvious cause are a sign of mental illness. They're not, emotional pain is good, it exists for a reason: pain is instructive, psychological pain goes hand-in-hand with psychological growth in the same way that physical pain goes hand-in-hand with exercise. That being said, I do think that antidepressants are sometimes necessary, especially in extreme circumstances. For example I once had a friend whose entire immediate family died when she was eighteen, and I'm grateful that she had access to pills which helped her endure it.

Regarding the science behind medication, there was a study a few years ago which is brought up frequently. It concluded that there's no difference between antidepressants and a placebo in cases of mild or moderate depression, and that the only time they even have an effect is when the depression is severe:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/06/health/views/06depress.html?scp=2&sq=ssri&st=cse&_r=0

However, the only SSRI that they look at is Paxil. I've heard it argued that there's not a huge difference between Paxil and other SSRIs except for who owns the patent, but my chemistry is way too weak to have a strong opinion on that.

[tonywalt]

They're not, emotional pain is good, it exists for a reason: pain is instructive, psychological pain goes hand-in-hand with psychological growth in the same way that physical pain goes hand-in-hand with exercise

I agree with the above. I think north american culture has reached a point where the vast majority believe that emotional pain is somehow bad and should be eliminated-it's an goal that will not be achieved.

[Darcy88]

I believe much neurosis is the result of the dissonance between our basic primeval instincts and the tedious demands of civilized life. You gotta use sex, exercise and music to placate your primal nature and then if that isn't enough try meditation or creativity or religion or anything else capable of sublimating the beast into peace. Remedy this problem on your own terms or else you run the risk of succumbing to despair or suffering same fate as Randle McMurphy.

[Phocion]

I think Phocion's advice not to seek therapy is bad. With this as his reasoning:

It really seems to be suggesting that it's more healthy to supress thoughts and emotions than work them out in a private setting with another person to talk to who has experience in what you're dealing with. That's pretty much all therapy is, with the added bonus of CBT, brain tricks to use in case of emergencies or to use daily to keep you grounded. Just telling someone your problems can be very cathartic, I can't see how it would be better to keep them festering in your own head.

I do agree that antidepressants are too readily prescribed. We live in a medicated society where happy ads are shoved down our throats at regular intervals, it's gotten to the point where the collective public think that all negative emotions without an obvious cause are a sign of mental illness. They're not, emotional pain is good, it exists for a reason: pain is instructive, psychological pain goes hand-in-hand with psychological growth in the same way that physical pain goes hand-in-hand with exercise. That being said, I do think that antidepressants are sometimes necessary, especially in extreme circumstances. For example I once had a friend whose entire immediate family died when she was eighteen, and I'm grateful that she had access to pills which helped her endure it.

Regarding the science behind medication, there was a study a few years ago which is brought up frequently. It concluded that there's no difference between antidepressants and a placebo in cases of mild or moderate depression, and that the only time they even have an effect is when the depression is severe:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/06/health/views/06depress.html?scp=2&sq=ssri&st=cse&_r=0

However, the only SSRI that they look at is Paxil. I've heard it argued that there's not a huge difference between Paxil and other SSRIs except for who owns the patent, but my chemistry is way too weak to have a strong opinion on that.

Ok, except i did not say this at all. Where did i say 'don't talk to anyone, keep your thoughts to yourself and let them fester in your own head'? Of course he should speak to other people, at the least to use them as a sounding board for his own thoughts, and to hopefully gain some perspective. I simply said don't put yourself in the hands of some mental-health professional you don't know: it is placing yourself in an extremely vulnerable position, and it can create a remarkable dependency, often on people who don't have the slightest idea about what they are doing. Then they suggest taking some drugs and you end up far worse than you would have been on your own. I have seen people prescribed terrible and harmful combinations of drugs to combat depression, not even by run-of-the-mill therapists, but by extremely well qualified ones that cost in excess of $300 an hour.

The chances of rolling the dice and finding a good and reliable therapist are in my opinion extremely low, and in many cases before seeing them you must sign something granting them the power to commit you if they so desire (this happened to a friend of mine who had to spend a number of nights in a mental hospital and said it was one of the most harrowing experiences of his life). In many cases you will fill out a terribly inaccurate form that supposedly 'measures depression' get a score and then be told how depressed you are and then prescribed some drugs.

Sure anti-depressants are sometimes needed, but they should always be a last resort, not a possible easy fix that is likely to backfire in the future (they are not exactly easy to come off either). It is not properly understood quite how these drugs work, and part of the problem is that depression is not an objectively definable illness meaning a lot of guesswork is involved. Depression is heterogeneous and manifests itself in different ways in people and has a lot to do with the complex thought processes of the brain of which we have little understanding. This is why brain training to reduce pessimism is often a more effective treatment. It is also why the medication used to treat a more objectively defined illness such as bipolar disorder (which is generally a far more serious a disease) has far more effective treatment than your run-of-the-mill depression.

[Melanie]

Watch this and then look at yourself in the mirror. I did. Puts it all in perspective. After watching the video, google his other videos. They will inspire you and show you that you can have a purpose-driven life (no, that comment, nor the video, has anything to do with the book called, The Purpose Driven Life...good read though)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW579icDRSA

[Darcy88]

Ok, except i did not say this at all. Where did i say 'don't talk to anyone, keep your thoughts to yourself and let them fester in your own head'? Of course he should speak to other people, at the least to use them as a sounding board for his own thoughts, and to hopefully gain some perspective. I simply said don't put yourself in the hands of some mental-health professional you don't know: it is placing yourself in an extremely vulnerable position, and it can create a remarkable dependency, often on people who don't have the slightest idea about what they are doing. Then they suggest taking some drugs and you end up far worse than you would have been on your own. I have seen people prescribed terrible and harmful combinations of drugs to combat depression, not even by run-of-the-mill therapists, but by extremely well qualified ones that cost in excess of $300 an hour.

The chances of rolling the dice and finding a good and reliable therapist are in my opinion extremely low, and in many cases before seeing them you must sign something granting them the power to commit you if they so desire (this happened to a friend of mine who had to spend a number of nights in a mental hospital and said it was one of the most harrowing experiences of his life). In many cases you will fill out a terribly inaccurate form that supposedly 'measures depression' get a score and then be told how depressed you are and then prescribed some drugs.

Sure anti-depressants are sometimes needed, but they should always be a last resort, not a possible easy fix that is likely to backfire in the future (they are not exactly easy to come off either). It is not properly understood quite how these drugs work, and part of the problem is that depression is not an objectively definable illness meaning a lot of guesswork is involved. Depression is heterogeneous and manifests itself in different ways in people and has a lot to do with the complex thought processes of the brain of which we have little understanding. This is why brain training to reduce pessimism is often a more effective treatment. It is also why the medication used to treat a more objectively defined illness such as bipolar disorder (which is generally a far more serious a disease) has far more effective treatment than your run-of-the-mill depression.

Where I live you have to either be psychotic, a clear threat to others or have disclosed a plan to commit suicide in order to be involuntary committed. I was really badly messed up one time, saw at least a dozen doctors and mental health specialists over the course of two weeks, and they never even mentioned the prospect of me going into the psych ward. You don't have to place yourself "in their hands" as you say. You can listen to what they have to say, take the drugs they give you or refuse to take them, the whole time not ceding your free will and your right to choose what you do in response to their advice and/or prescriptions.

A lot of what you say about depression and medications is totally spot on, but I disagree with your blanket dismissal of mental health professionals.