Is literature a resort for the disabled?

[osho]

I do not name any here, but I have seen cases wherein when people have nothing to do particularly when they are physically wrecked, economically and socially ruined they resort to literature since writing is a personal and private affair and as long as one is psychologically robust one can continue writing, though some people with bipolar or like that too do write. Doing some other things or socially and professionally challenging do not come their ways. I am not generalizing my statements but there are historical examples to endorse this statement.

Sitting before a laptop and now we have many handy notebooks one can find it more comfy to do the writing stuff. To be successful in business one needs to be outgoing, salesmanship and writing is something you can do leisurely. Sometimes one can wake up in the dead of the night take to writing but other professions demand teamwork, timetable and certain disciplinary measures.

That is why I often feel it is literature, painting and music that can work for the handicapped. I am afraid if anybody in their disabled conditions may take it personally. It is just out of inquisitiveness as I have seen many examples of the disabled in our country doing some masterly creative jobs. Some people are doing it because they were considered misfits in their previous professions.

I apologize if it hurts anybody since it is an objective observation.

[Volya]

I think that sure, literature and the like provides an outlet or relief to people who are having trouble with the real world, but that's not to say that's why all people read.

[osho]

I think that sure, literature and the like provides an outlet or relief to people who are having trouble with the real world, but that's not to say that's why all people read.

I second your thought hundred percent and in fact I also feel it gives a kind of relief and appeasement when one is stressed out. Everybody has moments of stress and depression in life and it is only a matter of degree. Literature has often been an antidote or panacea in my case though I am not in this field because I am stressed out or in a state of distress. I enjoy literature both in moments of joys and pains. Of course when I become fed up with the people around, and in fact everyone does, it is in literature and particularly in poetry I take refuge and it reconciles me with all my conflicts with myself and with the rest of other things.

At times I feel we have some social spectrums who are depressed or psychopaths who feel the society they are in nonadjustable and of course they can find a kind of magic potion in poetry that can loll them into a fantasy for a while since the reality they are in becomes unpalatable.

[JBI]

I think we all in a sense are Tennyson's Ulysses - being wrecked or disabled is not necessary:

Yet all experience is an arch wherethro'
Gleams that untravell'd world, whose margin fades
For ever and for ever when I move.
How dull it is to pause, to make an end,
To rust unburnish'd, not to shine in use!
As tho' to breathe were life. Life piled on life
Were all too little, and of one to me
Little remains: but every hour is saved
From that eternal silence, something more,
A bringer of new things; and vile it were
For some three suns to store and hoard myself,
And this gray spirit yearning in desire
To follow knowledge like a sinking star,
Beyond the utmost bound of human thought.

We are imaginative beings, good literature plays on our desire to go beyond ourselves. I do not need to be depressed to enjoy getting lost inside Sima Xiangru's Imperial Park, the same way I can walk around the Qing park in Chengde. Marco Polo proved as much - we are all mere adventurers, whether on our bed reading or on an elephant galloping through the jungle.

[osho]

I think we all in a sense are Tennyson's Ulysses - being wrecked or disabled is not necessary:

Yet all experience is an arch wherethro'
Gleams that untravell'd world, whose margin fades
For ever and for ever when I move.
How dull it is to pause, to make an end,
To rust unburnish'd, not to shine in use!
As tho' to breathe were life. Life piled on life
Were all too little, and of one to me
Little remains: but every hour is saved
From that eternal silence, something more,
A bringer of new things; and vile it were
For some three suns to store and hoard myself,
And this gray spirit yearning in desire
To follow knowledge like a sinking star,
Beyond the utmost bound of human thought.

We are imaginative beings, good literature plays on our desire to go beyond ourselves. I do not need to be depressed to enjoy getting lost inside Sima Xiangru's Imperial Park, the same way I can walk around the Qing park in Chengde. Marco Polo proved as much - we are all mere adventurers, whether on our bed reading or on an elephant galloping through the jungle.

Interesting and enlightening comment.

[Charles Darnay]

I think your assumption is a bit of a generalization - but a generalization that was given validity since the explosion of memoirs and self help books hit the markets. Good literature rises from an imagination and the skill to frame that imagination in a way that others will respond to. Sometimes this can come from someone who has/had an infliction, sometimes not. However, there are plenty of people who do not have the imagination or voice, but had an experience that is marketable, and all they have to do is record it.

However, to suggest that the disabled/handicapped have no option but to retreat to a laptop and start writing is not true. Often, the people who let their condition "wreck" them (physically, emotionally, socially(?) ) make terrible writers, as they are unable to control their voice. Meanwhile there are those who suffer a tragedy or something of the like and continue to strive in whatever direction they want to - from art, to business, to athletics.

[cafolini]

There are many many disabilities. Being extremely poor is another form of it. Regarding the resort, why wouldn't it be of all kinds? It is the Internet that's the resort, and literature, of course, is any expression of the printed word. So it is there also, incidentally. The net is the resort for any kind of poverty. For a few dollars per month you can live a lifetime of learning, including entertainment. It is one of the greatest events, apart from the stuff of Graham Bell and Tesla's frequency transformer, for example. You name it.
Are you sure the author of this thread was supposed to be osho? LOL

[osho]

I am learning things from different
viewpoints. I do not want to assert I am rlght or wrong. I am looking at it through my own social and cultural tperspective specific to my own peripherial circumstances.

[PeterL]

For some disabled people reading is all they can do, but for other disable people reading is impossible. If you were to restat what you were thinking with that in mind, then you would have something valid.

[cafolini]

I am learning things from different
viewpoints. I do not want to assert I am rlght or wrong. I am looking at it through my own social and cultural tperspective specific to my own peripherial circumstances.

That's one of the best ways to do it when you are a genuine bandit like I am.

I would enjoy grabbing and pulling a nose like Eastwood did in Heartbreak Ridge. Now, with Dina in rehab, he still says "use your nose and make my day." Women do indeed wave the little flag of freedom.

[osho]

Awesomely revealing


For some disabled people reading is all they can do, but for other disable people reading is impossible. If you were to restat what you were thinking with that in mind, then you would have something valid.

I endorse your standpoint

[Delta40]

I get on my high horse about the mentally ill often being more creative than 'normal' people. It pisses me off and I see it as some kind of stereotype. I have bipolar. I'm not defined by my diagnosis and resent credit being given to it - because the unspoken statement is that if it wasn't in my life, I wouldn't possess such talent. Nobody would suggest for a moment my talent is based on my gender or the fact that I'm a redhead! What tosh! It's about me and who I am as a whole.

[stlukesguild]

I have to agree with Delta. I find it absurd to even begin to attempt to define "artists" as fitting any stereotype... whether we are speaking of personality, intellect, nationality, race, height, hair color, sex or sexual preference, political affiliation etc... Artists as a whole are made up of individuals of such breadth and variety as are individual human beings of any other group or walk in life.

[osho]

I do not mean creativity springs from a state of mental defunct or of any kind of disability. Persons can be creative in both circumstances. My focus is when a person is physically handicapped and has little to do and has fewer places to visit all he can do is squeeze himself into his littleness in a small comfy room to read and write. I know a limp who confine herself within her small room and has a small circle of friends and all now she does is keeps on reading and writing. She was recently prestigiously awarded for the kind of literary creations she had done. Proust did his masterly work of writing In remembrance of my lost times while remaining confined as an ailing person. There are so many writers we can give examples who were disabled and yet did marvelous jobs of writing some of the world’s best books.

[Darcy88]

I get on my high horse about the mentally ill often being more creative than 'normal' people. It pisses me off and I see it as some kind of stereotype. I have bipolar. I'm not defined by my diagnosis and resent credit being given to it - because the unspoken statement is that if it wasn't in my life, I wouldn't possess such talent. Nobody would suggest for a moment my talent is based on my gender or the fact that I'm a redhead! What tosh! It's about me and who I am as a whole.


I have to agree with Delta. I find it absurd to even begin to attempt to define "artists" as fitting any stereotype... whether we are speaking of personality, intellect, nationality, race, height, hair color, sex or sexual preference, political affiliation etc... Artists as a whole are made up of individuals of such breadth and variety as are individual human beings of any other group or walk in life.

I have to disagree with both of you. This might be wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creativity_and_mental_illness) but it cites numerous legitimate studies which show a correlation between creativity and mental illness. I know 6 Schizophrenics and 2 of them are legitimate creative geniuses and 3 more are themselves respectably gifted. I have bipolar type 2 and I know for certain it helps me with my creativity. The only other person I know with bipolar type 2 is the overall most creative person I know. He supports himself by painting and making music and directing films and music videos.

When I'm hypomanic I'm simply on another level creatively. Sentences and paragraphs come out poetically brilliant with barely any effort at all. The mind quite simply expands. I see more and feel more and that more which I see and feel adds substance and beauty to whatever it is I am creating. Having bipolar type 2 is like living life as a literary character. When I'm depressed life is a constant tragedy, I feel like I stepped out of a Greek tragedy or a novel by Dostoevsky, and when I'm "up" I see everywhere such poignant truth and beauty that all seems infused with poetry.

Being mentally different doesn't make you creative, nor does being mentally normal mean you can't be creative. It can help a great deal though.

Also, though unrelated to this thread I have to say how I despise the term "mental illness." In many instances a mental illness is detrimental if not downright catastrophic, but in many other cases it can amount to a mere difference, neither positive nor negative. Risk of suicide aside (bipolar type 2 has the highest rate) there is nothing about my mental condition that I would change. I've had the depression for so long I can't imagine life without it, and the emotionally "up" portions of my year, which last anywhere from 3-8 months, have blessed me with an abundance of positive experience, not to mention allowing me to function at an above average level and all the praise and rewards which comes along with that.

[osho]

Being mentally different doesn't make you creative, nor does being mentally normal mean you can't be creative. It can help a great deal though.




Creativity is a state of mental faculty and I agree with you on this point since some people do creative things contrary to their physical or mental states. But all I want to accentuate is we must arrive at a reservoir of inspiration and no matter which physical or mental state you are once you have this reservoir opened up creativity surges spontaneously.

[cacian]

Well the way I see it I think we are all in our different ways disabled, one way or another mentally physically, you name it no one is perfect.
So literature is what dreams are made of. It talks to everyone and reaches out to all in a manner that nothing else does so well. I think the human voice is disabled when it comes to reading to recharge because all the sensors are engaged on words and nothing else. One would imagine the impact of such force that are words and meaning when nothing else can. I think that literature beats at the heart of the emotions and turmoil feelings of lows and highs. Words are visually more impacting and inflicting to our well beings then sound. Literature therefore must adapt adequate visuals and systematique ways of communicating orders of priorities and importancies in order to facilitate intellectual development and emancipate our views and opinions for the better. Literature must be transparent in its objectives and lineant in its meanings and messages. We must be kind with and to words so that we are kind to us. Literature I feel must obliterate the blunt and subject openness to gentle but credible ideologies. It is important because literature helps trigger substances of logic and understanding which lead the mind to rethink and visualise new ways of seeing/being/appreciating. Nothing would otherwise express such changes within us then a literature that knows how to talk and what to talk. Literature is revolutionary in this sense.

[osho]

Nothing in the world can study life better than literature, and that is why those who love life love to read and write and learn a lot about life. Literature is an arch through which you can enter an endless vista of imaginary and real pictures, landscapes and it teaches you to live in whole since through literature we can come to know what goes on with the rest of humanity or how they think and how their problems are.

It is a portal for a world of experience. That is why even one is disabled, disadvantaged and disturbed, bipolar, multipolar or whatever state one is it connects him to the rest of the world. I am through my laptop coming across an assortment of people across many geopolitical frontiers and am writing to you in your own language and at times about your own cultures. Is not it exotic to do something creative in life?

If one is disabled and has few things to delight in in life but literature gives him endless possibilities and connections.

That is why I am saying literature can be a resort or a sanctuary for those who cannot profit from this world of commerce and commodities. If you want to attract a beautiful boy or girl for sex you need to be physically fit or else you cannot enjoy this privilege but through literature you can enjoy some richer experiences over and above the kind of orgasms you can derive from an act of sex

[cacian]

Nothing in the world can study life better than literature, and that is why those who love life love to read and write and learn a lot about life. Literature is an arch through which you can enter an endless vista of imaginary and real pictures, landscapes and it teaches you to live in whole since through literature we can come to know what goes on with the rest of humanity or how they think and how their problems are.

It is a portal for a world of experience. That is why even one is disabled, disadvantaged and disturbed, bipolar, multipolar or whatever state one is it connects him to the rest of the world. I am through my laptop coming across an assortment of people across many geopolitical frontiers and am writing to you in your own language and at times about your own cultures. Is not it exotic to do something creative in life?

If one is disabled and has few things to delight in in life but literature gives him endless possibilities and connections.

That is why I am saying literature can be a resort or a sanctuary for those who cannot profit from this world of commerce and commodities. If you want to attract a beautiful boy or girl for sex you need to be physically fit or else you cannot enjoy this privilege but through literature you can enjoy some richer experiences over and above the kind of orgasms you can derive from an act of sex

A book can tell you things but it does not 'do it' for you if you see what I mean. I feel a book is about what is that could be in that one hopefully learns from it to be. To say it is a reliance and a compensation for what is not in real life can be a deterrent from one living their lives to the full.
I think if one is not finding life livible even one is reading a copious amount of literature then one is obviously not getting out of literature what one should. Literature should act as a guide of some sorts a companion of thoughts to better understand a life style. If this is not the case then literature is failing in that somewhere we are writing stories but really saying and adding nothing to our lives. Literature talks but if we not hearing then the culprit is us and not words. One cannot blame a book if it does not deliver the goods one must search from within or others.

[osho]

If one is disabled, handicapped one becomes deprived of sexual satisfaction since few will be ready to sleep with someone physically handicapped though the desire for sex in the disabled also will be strong. That is why the disabled can relish in a good piece of literature. At times literature can help people to feel relieved if one is in a tormented state.

[Lokasenna]

If one is disabled, handicapped one becomes deprived of sexual satisfaction since few will be ready to sleep with someone physically handicapped though the desire for sex in the disabled also will be strong. That is why the disabled can relish in a good piece of literature. At times literature can help people to feel relieved if one is in a tormented state.

What? Are you serious?

Not only is that a ridiculous generalisation, it is a crass and deeply offensive generalisation.

[hannah_arendt]

What? Are you serious?

Not only is that a ridiculous generalisation, it is a crass and deeply offensive generalisation.

Agreed. If somebody is disabled it doesn`t mean that he or she can`t feel satisfied with his/ her life. Of course, he can`t do certain things but it doesn`t mean lack of hapiness.

[cacian]

If one is disabled, handicapped one becomes deprived of sexual satisfaction since few will be ready to sleep with someone physically handicapped though the desire for sex in the disabled also will be strong. That is why the disabled can relish in a good piece of literature. At times literature can help people to feel relieved if one is in a tormented state.

osho are you suggesting literature is a piece of chocolate bar called mars? :)
otherwise are you saying that the person disabled with no sex life enjoys a book of literature instead because there is nothing else one can do to have other pleasures but the pleasures of reading?
I would say life is forum and we all enjoy it according to our taste some places/words/posts might not be desirable but other are more pleasurable and so we respond accordingly. I do not think life gets the worse and the good out of us it is how we deal it that does and so reading is just that a journey through words that trigger memories. Sense are for us to ignite and so literature is not a condition that replaces remition it is a lease and a besoin de savoir vivre.
It is just like saying I do not believe in miracles because they do not help me understand the issues but I do believe in reading because at least I can understand the words.

[osho]

I agree I was wrong in my generalization. I apolize since I amade that statement foolishly. Now Since somebody opemed my eye I feel immensely agrieved at this rude writing

[cacian]

I agree I was wrong in my generalization. I apolize since I amade that statement foolishly. Now Since somebody opemed my eye I feel immensely agrieved at this rude writing

what rude writing?

[osho]

Underrating the disabled

[cacian]

Underrating the disabled

well I think it depends on what disability one is suffering from. I watched this program the other where someone was running a kind a dating site/porn offering sexual services for the disabled who are not able to have a relationship or sex. I am not sure it is not issue if a book reassures a disabled sexually then so be it I do not see the problem with it. How is that rude?

[stlukesguild]

I have to disagree with both of you. This might be wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creativ...mental_illness) but it cites numerous legitimate studies which show a correlation between creativity and mental illness.

Obviously, as you have admitted, citing Wikipedia is questionable. There are indeed several studies suggesting a correlation between mental illness and creative genius... but correlation is not the same as proof of cause. You should also read those studies that offer alternative interpretations of the data. One study that I read not long ago admitted that there was a small but statistically significant increase in mental illness among those employed in creative careers. There were several suggestions explaining this, including:

1. Those employed in areas such as medicine, finance, engineering, business, law, etc... are less likely to report instances of mental illness due to fear of repercussions.

2. Those employed in more creative fields such as art, music, literature, theater, etc... tend to feel more comfortable with the idea of mental illness... and may even be motivated to exaggerate the same as a result of the romantic notions of the "mad artist."

3. Those suffering from mental illness often avoid careers with rigid time frames, deadlines, stressful demands, and requirements that one work well in a group and turn instead to more creative fields where there is greater freedom with regard to scheduling, deadlines, and requirements for working with others.

4. Those diagnosed with mental illnesses and collecting public support or disability payments often turn to the arts as a part-time career or source of income.

The reality is that studies have shown a small correlation between mental illness and creative thinking. There may be links or similarities between the thinking patterns of the mentally ill (or certain aspects of the mentally ill) and the sort of creative leaps in logic or illogical/irrational associations that are found in creative thinking... but this is far from suggesting that creativity is "helped" or "inspired" by mental illness.

Van Gogh is often used as the poster-child for the "crazy artist"... but the reality shows something far more complex. During his manic stages, Van Gogh had endless energy and was able to churn out paintings at a blazing speed. On the other hand, during his periods of depression, he was completely unable to work at all and often needed to be hospitalized. It was during one of his periods slipping from the manic to depression that Van Gogh shot himself.

One might suggest that Van Gogh's illness was a source of inspiration. This may be true... but only in the sense that everything that the artist experiences can be a source of inspiration. Some artists have lived the most tragic lives and turned this tragedy into fuel for their art. Others have lived the most joyful existences... or the most mundane... and turned these into works of art that are just as powerful.

The notion that mental illness is a source of artistic inspiration to the extent that it is a benefit or advantage is nothing more than building upon the naive Romantic notion that art is the result of suffering. We cannot say whether Van Gogh would have been the same artist had he not suffered from mental illness... but it is quite likely he would not have committed suicide and would have had many more years to further develop his art.

We can all cite personal experiences... which add up to nothing. Personally I know a good many working artists... none of whom suffer from mental illness. On the other hand, I have had several individuals in my family who have suffered from mental illness. None of them were the least bit creative. All of them saw their disease as the most horrible curse... two choosing to end it through suicide.

Personally, I hate the attempts to link creativity or the arts with mental illness because I feel it often grossly Romanticizing just how horrible mental illness can be. I also find it a naive, insulting Romantic notion of art and artists... as if all one needs to do is drink heavily, take lots of drugs, engage in antisocial behavior... and be a little "crazy"... and voila! you have a creative genius.

Again... I have seen nothing to convince me that artists are not made up of individuals just as unique... and of just as great a variety of human being as any other walk of life.

[Darcy88]

I have to disagree with both of you. This might be wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creativ...mental_illness) but it cites numerous legitimate studies which show a correlation between creativity and mental illness.

Obviously, as you have admitted, citing Wikipedia is questionable. There are indeed several studies suggesting a correlation between mental illness and creative genius... but correlation is not the same as proof of cause. You should also read those studies that offer alternative interpretations of the data. One study that I read not long ago admitted that there was a small but statistically significant increase in mental illness among those employed in creative careers. There were several suggestions explaining this, including:

1. Those employed in areas such as medicine, finance, engineering, business, law, etc... are less likely to report instances of mental illness due to fear of repercussions.

2. Those employed in more creative fields such as art, music, literature, theater, etc... tend to feel more comfortable with the idea of mental illness... and may even be motivated to exaggerate the same as a result of the romantic notions of the "mad artist."

3. Those suffering from mental illness often avoid careers with rigid time frames, deadlines, stressful demands, and requirements that one work well in a group and turn instead to more creative fields where there is greater freedom with regard to scheduling, deadlines, and requirements for working with others.

4. Those diagnosed with mental illnesses and collecting public support or disability payments often turn to the arts as a part-time career or source of income.

The reality is that studies have shown a small correlation between mental illness and creative thinking. There may be links or similarities between the thinking patterns of the mentally ill (or certain aspects of the mentally ill) and the sort of creative leaps in logic or illogical/irrational associations that are found in creative thinking... but this is far from suggesting that creativity is "helped" or "inspired" by mental illness.

Van Gogh is often used as the poster-child for the "crazy artist"... but the reality shows something far more complex. During his manic stages, Van Gogh had endless energy and was able to churn out paintings at a blazing speed. On the other hand, during his periods of depression, he was completely unable to work at all and often needed to be hospitalized. It was during one of his periods slipping from the manic to depression that Van Gogh shot himself.

One might suggest that Van Gogh's illness was a source of inspiration. This may be true... but only in the sense that everything that the artist experiences can be a source of inspiration. Some artists have lived the most tragic lives and turned this tragedy into fuel for their art. Others have lived the most joyful existences... or the most mundane... and turned these into works of art that are just as powerful.

The notion that mental illness is a source of artistic inspiration to the extent that it is a benefit or advantage is nothing more than building upon the naive Romantic notion that art is the result of suffering. We cannot say whether Van Gogh would have been the same artist had he not suffered from mental illness... but it is quite likely he would not have committed suicide and would have had many more years to further develop his art.

We can all cite personal experiences... which add up to nothing. Personally I know a good many working artists... none of whom suffer from mental illness. On the other hand, I have had several individuals in my family who have suffered from mental illness. None of them were the least bit creative. All of them saw their disease as the most horrible curse... two choosing to end it through suicide.

Personally, I hate the attempts to link creativity or the arts with mental illness because I feel it often grossly Romanticizing just how horrible mental illness can be. I also find it a naive, insulting Romantic notion of art and artists... as if all one needs to do is drink heavily, take lots of drugs, engage in antisocial behavior... and be a little "crazy"... and voila! you have a creative genius.

Again... I have seen nothing to convince me that artists are not made up of individuals just as unique... and of just as great a variety of human being as any other walk of life.

You raise many valid and interesting points. I however won't let go of my belief in the connection between creativity and mental illness. There are studies which prove the link, and I see such anecdotal indications in myself and those around me. I also don't mind "romanticizing how horrible mental illness can be." There's such a stigma to mental illness, any positive association people might have with it is a plus to me.

The main problem I suppose with contending that mental illness, particularly bipolar, leads to increased creativity is, as you mentioned of Van Gogh, the fact that the depressive phase can often hinder and even prevent creative expression. I've noticed this in myself indeed.

I guess in the end it doesn't really matter. There are so many mentally normal artists, and so many mentally ill persons who are not artists, that whether there is or is not a link does not bear much significance.

[Lokasenna]

well I think it depends on what disability one is suffering from. I watched this program the other where someone was running a kind a dating site/porn offering sexual services for the disabled who are not able to have a relationship or sex. I am not sure it is not issue if a book reassures a disabled sexually then so be it I do not see the problem with it. How is that rude?

Without wishing to go into too much detail - given that Osho has made an eloquent apology - it is offensive to make blanket pronouncements on an entire section of society, particularly in regard to how they act and how people act to them. To say that disabled people will be less sexually successful because of their disability, but can 'make do' with literature as a means of sexual release is both prejudiced and patronising. I several friends, not to mention an ex-girlfriend, who are disabled and are in happy and fulfilled relationships.