Boston Man Hunt Over

[cacian]

The two brothers involved in the explosions of the Boston Marathon are now being caught. One dead after being shot down by an army squad and other badly injured by gun shots is hospitalised.
America style of dealing with terrorist is to hunt down any culprit by shooting them dead by a heavy handed armed squad. I was shocked at the amount of guns and the size of them the American squads carry on them in any raid I dare think what they have on them when in war zones or military training.
the question is this:
Now that the two brother are literally dead how is anyone to know why these brothers did what they did?
Is shooting culprits terrorists dead the answer to why is terrorism is on the rise in the US?

[hannah_arendt]

What do you think should be done?

[cacian]

Hello Hannah I personally think that they should have been arrested alive and questioned over why they did what they did.
In order to get to the bottom of this incident one must talk about it and found out the causes behind the terrorism. Dealing with it by exposing its root is the only way to deroot it. Killing the culprits behind the heneous act will not stop others from repeating the same incident.

[Lokasenna]

Now that the two brother are literally dead how is anyone to know why these brothers did what they did?

One of them is very much alive, and currently in police custody. The police shot the other one because he was shooting at them - this seems a reasonable, if sad, response.

I dare say we will find out in time what they were hoping to achieve.

[prendrelemick]

What occurs to me is the way the whole city was shut down. I don't understand what theological end Islamists hope to achieve by blowing up random innocents, but if terrorists want to bring terror to people, that is what happened.

[OrphanPip]

Hello Hannah I personally think that they should have been arrested alive and questioned over why they did what they did.
In order to get to the bottom of this incident one must talk about it and found out the causes behind the terrorism. Dealing with it by exposing its root is the only way to deroot it. Killing the culprits behind the heneous act will not stop others from repeating the same incident.

It is unreasonable to expect police to endanger their lives in order to apprehend someone alive who is shooting at them, had a bomb strapped to their body, and who had already shot and killed a police officer earlier in the day.

[cacian]

What occurs to me is the way the whole city was shut down. I don't understand what theological end Islamists hope to achieve by blowing up random innocents, but if terrorists want to bring terror to people, that is what happened.

there is no understanding to what terrorists do and that is the culprit it is extremely random. the worrying thing of it all is that the explosives were two pressure cookers detonated by handheld. it shows how easy it is to make these explosives.
killing by killing does not solve terrorism and I do not know what to say about how this happened. I feel that if they have one alive then they must engage in conversation.
the other thing is that I find it perhaps too easy for the fbi or the police squad to just shoot at someone shooting at them. they are after many against one or two at the most. I feel they need to upper their trainings with less guns but with more strategies to catch these people in order to get to the root of this heinous crime. people lives depends on it. more thinking must be spend on how to catch these culprits alive I feel it is the best long term.

[cacian]

It is unreasonable to expect police to endanger their lives in order to apprehend someone alive who is shooting at them, had a bomb strapped to their body, and who had already shot and killed a police officer earlier in the day.

I agree but the police in their numbers compared to two is really not that threatening. handling a gun seems to me the easiest option for the police and also the most detrimental one because there is in the end no real conclusion to why this happened. this means more of the same will happen.
the police came out in force with heavy guns and yes they will kill because of it. I feel there is need/room for brain and other physical strategies to catch these culprits alive. a gun is not the answer and neither is death.

[Lokasenna]

I agree but the police in their numbers compared to two is really not that threatening. handling a gun seems to me the easiest option for the police and also the most detrimental one because there is in the end no real conclusion to why this happened. this means more of the same will happen.
the police came out in force with heavy guns and yes they will kill because of it. I feel there is need/room for brain and other physical strategies to catch these culprits alive. a gun is the answer and neither is death.

And what if he had killed other people whilst trying to be apprehended? What if he had taken hostages? And what if he had escaped? Or detonated himself to take others with him? When a known bomber is armed with explosives and is shooting at you, I think the time for the softly-softly apprach has pretty much passed.

[Emil Miller]

When a known bomber is armed with explosives and is shooting at you, I think the time for the softly-softly apprach has pretty much passed.


Oh dear, I can just see the pained expression on Polly Toynbee's face.

[cacian]

And what if he had killed other people whilst trying to be apprehended? What if he had taken hostages? And what if he had escaped? Or detonated himself to take others with him? When a known bomber is armed with explosives and is shooting at you, I think the time for the softly-softly apprach has pretty much passed.

Ah well and as US president Barack Obama put it on Thursday: "Scripture tells us to run with endurance the race that is set before us."
Endurance is heavy handed but not necessarily quick to fire and the race is about catching up with one another. Shooting does not recourse to neither of these.
I am not sure what I would have done myself but I think for the sake of the majority I would have consulted with the minority as not to dismiss their priorities and be left with sororities. There is a firm justice somewhere and we are losing sight of it by gun which is not the square and just thing to do in my opinion.

[Emil Miller]

Ah well and as US president Barack Obama put it on Thursday: "Scripture tells us to run with endurance the race that is set before us."
Endurance is heavy handed but not necessarily quick to fire and the race is about catching up with one another. Shooting does not recourse to neither of these.
I am not sure what I would have done myself but I think for the sake of the majority I would have consulted with the minority as not to dismiss their priorities and be left with sorrowities. There is a firm justice somewhere and we are losing sight of it by gun which is not the square and just thing to do in my opinion.

Lokasenna,

If you manage to work out what is being said here, I would be grateful if you were to let me and any other interested parties know.
I'm particularly interested to know the meaning of 'sorrowities'.

[cacian]

Lokasenna,

If you manage to work out what is being said here, I would be grateful if you were to let me and any other interested parties know.
I'm particularly interested to know the meaning of 'sorrowities'.

sororities rather. I thought I will put a W to indicate sorrowing but it did not work.

[Lokasenna]

Lokasenna,

If you manage to work out what is being said here, I would be grateful if you were to let me and any other interested parties know.
I'm particularly interested to know the meaning of 'sorrowities'.


sororities rather. I thought I will put a W to indicate sorrowing but it did not work.

No idea. Even I, an expert in several arcane languages, am at a loss for translation. Cacian, somehow, manages to use the English language like a Rubik's Cube.

I have long since accepted that English is not her first language, but to paraphrase the late Linda Smith I am no longer convinced that 'language is her first language'.

As for Polly Toynbee, I am sure that her suggestion would be to approach the gun-wielding terrorist armed only with a cup of tea and a biscuit, ready to talk about their 'issues'. One might call it 'understanding with extreme prejudice'.

I note also that my American housemate's response was 'I'm glad they caught one of them. Now they can put him on trial, and sentence him to death.'

[Emil Miller]

No idea. Even I, an expert in several arcane languages, am at a loss for translation. Cacian, somehow, manages to use the English language like a Rubik's Cube.

I have long since accepted that English is not her first language, but to paraphrase the late Linda Smith I am no longer convinced that 'language is her first language'.

As for Polly Toynbee, I am sure that her suggestion would be to approach the gun-wielding terrorist armed only with a cup of tea and a biscuit, ready to talk about their 'issues'. One might call it 'understanding with extreme prejudice'.

I note also that my American housemate's response was 'I'm glad they caught one of them. Now they can put him on trial, and sentence him to death.'


There should be a time machine which enables one to travel back to war-time Bletchley Park and hand over one of Cacian's posts to the cryptologists with the words: 'Pick the bones out of that'.

As for the perpetually irritating Polly, she recently suggested that The Archers wasn't politically correct in that it fails to mention government cuts etc etc. This elicited some choice responses from Telegraph readers including the one posted below:

'I wish people would stop decrying Polly. She's an elderly lady in a state of permanent befuddlement and the therapy of daily keyboard work is very good for her fingers. In this context, I would ask people to be more tolerant of her inconsequential meanderings.
Polly actually loves The Archers and often counsels fellow residents of The Twilight Home for Distressed Lefties to listen in. Then it's a chorus of The Red Flag, some hot Ovaltine and lights out in the Miliband Wing.'

[JuniperWoolf]

My theory: Cacian is a very dedicated troll with a secret mission to destroy litnet because she harbours a tinfoil-hat level grudge.

Re. this topic: my biggest fascination when big and/or widely-publicised events occur is with the online reaction, because it's a reflection on how the event is being processed by society at large. In this situation, the internet basically went insane (http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2013/04/18/f-online-crowdsourcing-investigations-social-media.html), and the conventional media went with it. It was incredible to watch, a large number of the absolutely-no-experience internet sleuths (and by the way there were thousands of them) suspected a man in a blue sweat suit, because they saw him in a photo and he looked "suspicious" (read: he had dark skin, was carrying a backpack, and had a mean-looking expression at the moment the photo was taken) which went viral and was seen by millions of people, and when it was posted on HIS facebook he ran to the cops basically telling them "hey, I'm not the Boston Marathon bomber!" And then he proved it to them, unequivocally.

So, you'd think that would be the end of it, but you'd be wrong: the next morning the newspapers are released, and the NY Post has this on the cover (http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1093643/thumbs/o-NEW-YORK-POST-570.jpg?6) because their staff would rather spend all night on reddit than do their job and saw the picture of the guy in the blue sweat suit but didn't follow up on the story enough to discover that it was a false accusation (which had already spread around the internet by now). What if someone who is deeply stupid and has a hero complex saw the guy on the street that morning, and after seeing his picture in the Post decided that he wanted to go down in history as the person who took out the Boston Marathon bomber?

And then, of course, the interwebs accused the missing student, and his grieving family was harassed by reporters and crazy emails to excess. These are only the two most dramatic of several dozen falsely-accused individuals. This all happened because everybody wants to be recognized for heroism with minimal effort, by literally just circling a brown person in a picture of a crowd. Fame-worship is one of society's many cancers, with another being lazy press who don't bother to check their sources.

[YesNo]

Cacian starts many interesting threads. I don't see her as a troll just because her perspective might not always agree with mine.

Regarding the present topic, I don't feel terrorized by the actions of these two in Boston. It is unfortunate the first one was killed because it would be nice to find out, from the oldest one, what they thought they were up to.

[Lokasenna]

My theory: Cacian is a very dedicated troll with a secret mission to destroy litnet because she harbours a tinfoil-hat level grudge.

Re. this topic: my biggest fascination when big and/or widely-publicised events occur is with the online reaction, because it's a reflection on how the event is being processed by society at large. In this situation, the internet basically went insane (http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2013/04/18/f-online-crowdsourcing-investigations-social-media.html), and the conventional media went with it. It was incredible to watch, a large number of the absolutely-no-experience internet sleuths (and by the way there were thousands of them) suspected a man in a blue sweat suit, because they saw him in a photo and he looked "suspicious" (read: he had dark skin, was carrying a backpack, and had a mean-looking expression at the moment the photo was taken) which went viral and was seen by millions of people, and when it was posted on HIS facebook he ran to the cops basically telling them "hey, I'm not the Boston Marathon bomber!" And then he proved it to them, unequivocally.

So, you'd think that would be the end of it, but you'd be wrong: the next morning the newspapers are released, and the NY Post has this on the cover (http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1093643/thumbs/o-NEW-YORK-POST-570.jpg?6) because their staff would rather spend all night on reddit than do their job and saw the picture of the guy in the blue sweat suit but didn't follow up on the story enough to discover that it was a false accusation (which had already spread around the internet by now). What if someone who is deeply stupid and has a hero complex saw the guy on the street that morning, and after seeing his picture in the Post decided that he wanted to go down in history as the person who took out the Boston Marathon bomber?

And then, of course, the interwebs accused the missing student, and his grieving family was harassed by reporters and crazy emails to excess. These are only the two most dramatic of several dozen falsely-accused individuals. This all happened because everybody wants to be recognized for heroism with minimal effort, by literally just circling a brown person in a picture of a crowd. Fame-worship is one of society's many cancers, with another being lazy press who don't bother to check their sources.

Agreed. Everyone fancies themself a great armchair detective, but that could mean that literally anyone in that crowd (presumably already fairly traumatised from the bombings) could be targeted by some glory-seeking nitwit who has managed to convince himself that he's about to gain eternal celebrity by shooting the new Bin Laden.

The fact that those mostly targeted tend to be of darker skin tone, and are accused of having a mean expression, says more about irrational prejudice than anything else. Sadly, this is true of most of humanity. Harold Shipman, quite possibly the most prolific serial killer of all time if the upper estimates of 400+ victims are anything like correct, got away with it for so long because almost no one would suspect a white, respectable, married, softly-spoken, middle class Doctor of mass-murder.

[cafolini]

Agreed. Everyone fancies themself a great armchair detective, but that could mean that literally anyone in that crowd (presumably already fairly traumatised from the bombings) could be targeted by some glory-seeking nitwit who has managed to convince himself that he's about to gain eternal celebrity by shooting the new Bin Laden.

The fact that those mostly targeted tend to be of darker skin tone, and are accused of having a mean expression, says more about irrational prejudice than anything else. Sadly, this is true of most of humanity. Harold Shipman, quite possibly the most prolific serial killer of all time if the upper estimates of 400+ victims are anything like correct, got away with it for so long because almost no one would suspect a white, respectable, married, softly-spoken, middle class Doctor of mass-murder.

It could be anyone. Cacian obviously is not a troll, but a person who aspires to an impossible laissez faire. We don't know enough yet about this case to determine motives. We do know that the older brother carried explosives and they coincide with the make of the ones in the bombing. We know that the younger also carried explosives at some point. But we don't know the nature of the terrorism (domestic, international, connected to what). Yet, we know absolutely that it was terrorism. We are still to answer many questions and it is being done, as it is absolutely necessary.
The case Cacian is simply that what Cacian wouldn't do cannot happen.
We are still to see a lot of what the interrogators can find out. And they will. Chant USA and wait. This requires time.

[liza]

I like Cacian topic's .. sometimes they are stupid but I like them .. :) I was thinking about Boston man also .. he was only 19 years old .. .. I like the way american policy shoot people .. I think people will keep killing and shooting each other all time ..
.. where I live .. someone shot migrant workers people for demanding unpaid wages .. is unfair .. animals eat eachother to survive .. we people do the same ..

[cafolini]

I like Cacian topic's .. sometimes they are stupid but I like them .. :) I was thinking about Boston man also .. he was only 19 years old .. .. I like the way american policy shoot people .. I think people will keep killing and shooting each other all time ..
.. where I live .. someone shot migrant workers people for demanding unpaid wages .. is unfair .. animals eat eachother to survive .. we people do the same ..

It has been said. The difference between all other animals and human beings is mainly that humans can kill at very long distances. I hope the purposes remain with the Grace of God.

[prendrelemick]

It is a fascinating moment in history for The News, the way it is gathered and delivered.

I was following the realtime tweets of a media lecturer at MIT who was witnessing the scene and was scanning the police radio. He was also following tweets and reports from other journalists and commenting on them and correcting them. So there I was, sat in my armchair witnessing by proxy dramatic events thousands of miles away. I was born in 1958 in the age of the telegram and even a year ago could never have imagined it would be possible to do that.

The question is, what follows now. Perhaps the role of printed or broadcast news will be only to to verify or scotch the viral rumours that fly about the internet. To do that they need to be authoratative and accurate.



ps. I'm a Cacian fan.

[Emil Miller]

Cacian starts many interesting threads. I don't see her as a troll just because her perspective might not always agree with mine.

Yes but a glance at her/his behaviour shows that he/she is very unlikely to be anything else. Apart from the nonsensical posts, an audit of the postings is indisputable.

Joined: Nov 2011.

Posts: 6,387

Posts per day: 12. 30

By any standards, that cannot be the input of a responsible contributor.

[Sancho]

...America style of dealing with terrorist is to hunt down any culprit by shooting them dead by a heavy handed armed squad. I was shocked at the amount of guns and the size of them the American squads carry on them in any raid I dare think what they have on them when in war zones or military training...

Yep, this is America. If you come here and kill us, we'll kill you back. It's our policy.

I ripped that off from from a Ron White bit about the death penalty in Texas:

http://youtu.be/TgQRgT15f9U

(BTW, I'm a cacian fan too. She's got an infectious exuberance.)

[Calidore]

(BTW, I'm a cacian fan too. She's got an infectious exuberance.)

And for all the unnecessary and pointless slagging she's taken, especially lately, she never responds in kind. Perpetual good humor is always worth encouraging, IMO.

[cacian]

Yes but a glance at her/his behaviour shows that he/she is very unlikely to be anything else. Apart from the nonsensical posts, an audit of the postings is indisputable.

Joined: Nov 2011.

Posts: 6,387

Posts per day: 12. 30

By any standards, that cannot be the input of a responsible contributor.

Well it is part of me to want to discuss matters that I feel are concerning and are perhaps worthy of bringing up just literature is as much discussing as reading and writing. I never look at my records of scoring and in fact this is something new you bring in front of me numbers mean nothing to me :). I like Litnet and I guess my postings is in measure of it. I am a she by the way.

[PeterL]

I don't understand why anyone would think that Cacian was being Trollish, at least on this thread. I may not agree with what she says, but I will defend her right ot say it.

With that said, I was pleasantly surprised that the second suspect was captured alive. I would hate to try to either evade capture or to find a fugitive in that part of Watertown. If I were trying to escape, then I would have tried to get to the River, which is a few blocks away. If I were trying to capture, then I would have loosen the web until there were people obsserving all of the streets but not wandering around, with the hope that the prey would think it was safe to move. When the fugitive moved, we would spring. That situation would make it likely tht the fugitive would be injured.

[OrphanPip]

I don't understand why anyone would think that Cacian was being Trollish, at least on this thread. I may not agree with what she says, but I will defend her right ot say it.

With that said, I was pleasantly surprised that the second suspect was captured alive. I would hate to try to either evade capture or to find a fugitive in that part of Watertown. If I were trying to escape, then I would have tried to get to the River, which is a few blocks away. If I were trying to capture, then I would have loosen the web until there were people obsserving all of the streets but not wandering around, with the hope that the prey would think it was safe to move. When the fugitive moved, we would spring. That situation would make it likely tht the fugitive would be injured.

Apparently he had been shot in the initial shoot out which had killed his brother, so he probably wasn't in any condition to run off. He would have likely died without medical attention if the owner of the boat hadn't discovered him hiding out under the tarp.

[Emil Miller]

Yep, this is America. If you come here and kill us, we'll kill you back. It's our policy.

I ripped that off from from a Ron White bit about the death penalty in Texas:

http://youtu.be/TgQRgT15f9U

(BTW, I'm a cacian fan too. She's got an infectious exuberance.)


While I generally agree with the sentiments expressed in the video, I cannot agree that Cacian's nonsensical posts are anything other than trolling. If she has an infectious exuberance, then perhaps she should see a doctor.

[cafolini]

Considering the goons of the FDA, Cacian knows more than the doctors. LOL

[soundofmusic]

Love Ron White...the whole blue collar comedy team actually

Okay, so was the Boston Bombing a religious thing again....All I've seen on computer news is this thing for several days...pictures of little billy in tuxedos and old grandmothers and I still have no idea if this had some purpose or it was just another local crazy....or if it was a local crazy we are using to divert Americas attention away from some real issue.

[stlukesguild]

I find it perhaps too easy for the fbi or the police squad to just shoot at someone shooting at them.

That has seriously got to be somewhere near the stupidest thing I have ever read on LitNet... and I have read more than a few. Perhaps the FBI and police should have just stood by and let the individual kill another couple officers... perhaps a couple of university students... and blow up a few more 8 year old boys... all so that cacian could feel better about things.

[stlukesguild]

Regarding the present topic, I don't feel terrorized by the actions of these two in Boston.

But then I will assume that none of you loved ones were among the killed or maimed. I actually had a close friend... one of my studio mates... a near professional marathon runner... who was close enough to have seen the explosions go off.

[Delta40]

the greater good under these circumstances is to shoot now, ask questions later. I'm sure if Cacian's 8 year old was standing there, they would agree.

[YesNo]

Regarding the present topic, I don't feel terrorized by the actions of these two in Boston.

But then I will assume that none of you loved ones were among the killed or maimed. I actually had a close friend... one of my studio mates... a near professional marathon runner... who was close enough to have seen the explosions go off.

Perhaps I'm just pig-headed, but I won't give these guys the pleasure of terrorizing me. I imagine the people who are right now most afraid, most terrorized, are those who can be linked to them in any way.

[JuniperWoolf]

*sigh* I wish I hadn't said anything about Cacian now. I was being facetious, it would take almost superhuman dedication to make over 6,000 troll posts.


Apparently he had been shot in the initial shoot out which had killed his brother, so he probably wasn't in any condition to run off. He would have likely died without medical attention if the owner of the boat hadn't discovered him hiding out under the tarp.

Could you imagine if he hadn't, and the guy goes to use his boat in the summer? It's not every day you find yourself ankle-deep in a Chechnyan terrorist.


What occurs to me is the way the whole city was shut down. I don't understand what theological end Islamists hope to achieve by blowing up random innocents, but if terrorists want to bring terror to people, that is what happened.

About the fear/level of reaction, there's an argument going around that the media escalated the fear surrounding the bombings to excess for the purpose of ratings which is influenced everyone into overreacting, and that it actually wasn't all that bad considering that only three people died (with a bit of conspiracy theory thrown in, this is all opportunistic fear-mongering to get Americans to give up freedom just like after 9/11 ect.). The counter-argument is that this belief that it "wasn't so bad" is due to the relitive novelty of bombings on American soil, and that this is just how bombings work: because of the nature of explosions there are a low number of casualties coupled with a lot of dismemberment and injury, with the most important aspect being that peace of mind is disturbed when people gather in public places, so people tend not to gather, or if they do they're fearful. In that sense the bombing was a complete success, assuming that it really was orchestrated by a terrorist group and that the kids were pawns who had been radicalized, which could really turn out to not even be true.

[hannah_arendt]

What occurs to me is the way the whole city was shut down. I don't understand what theological end Islamists hope to achieve by blowing up random innocents, but if terrorists want to bring terror to people, that is what happened.

Neither can I understand it. Using religion to political or any other purposes is disgusting and very cruel. I think that there is no other religion group doing something like that. I don`t want to say that Muslims are terrorists. Of course there are many who live, work and don`t think about blowing up other people. This minority however, does a lot of harm to majority trying to live in a normal way.

[Scheherazade]

There has been an earthquake in China (6.6), killing more than a hundred of people and leaving more than a thousand injured.

The aid workers cannot even reach the area for rescue operations.

[cafolini]

Last I heard, more than 5,000 were missing inside the rubble.

[stlukesguild]

Yes... and a storage facility at the West Fertilizer Company in the town of West, Texas exploded, killing 14, injuring 200, and leveling half of the town. The West fertilizer Company had been fined $2300 by the Environmental Protection Agency in 2006 for improper storage. The Department of Homeland Security requires that any amount of ammonium nitrate (the fertilizer/explosive used in the Oklahoma City bombing) over 400 pounds must be reported. The West Fertilizer Company was storing 270 tons (or 540,000 pounds) of the stuff.
We might add that at 8,583 Americans killed by handguns in the latest year for which we have data, it is liikely that somewhere near 165 Americans have been killed by handguns since the Boston Marathon... and the US Senate still voted to kill the bill requiring proper background checks.

[Sancho]

In an eerie tie-in to a work of literature, Ed Abbey published The Monkey Wrench Gang in 1975, which predated by 20 years the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City with a fertilizer bomb. Abbey's book is a comic novel in which a rag-tag group of characters meet on a rafting trip down the Colorado River and hatch out a plan to blow up the Glen Canyon Dam by driving a houseboat full of ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel to its base and torching it off - thus, draining Lake Powell and reclaiming Glen Canyon. The book may have kicked off the Earth First! movement in the USA, as well as empowering an unknown number of home-grown Eco-terrorists. Also it is funny as hell. It gets two thumbs up from El Sancho

[PeterL]

Alas, the Monkey Wrench Gang was completely incompetent. The best way to get rid of that dam would be to wait for an earthquake.

[liza]

Boston baby :)

[Darcy88]

That manhunt had me riveted. I was up all night listening to the police scanner. I couldn't figure out why 9000 cops had such difficulty finding one guy until they did find him hiding in a boat under a tarp.

Its sad all around. They accomplished nothing by exploding those bombs. Killing innocent people just eliminates your credibility and undermines your own cause.

I think it was largely about power. Such people get a sick pleasure and a sensation of power by killing and hurting people.

[cafolini]

That manhunt had me riveted. I was up all night listening to the police scanner. I couldn't figure out why 9000 cops had such difficulty finding one guy until they did find him hiding in a boat under a tarp.

Its sad all around. They accomplished nothing by exploding those bombs. Killing innocent people just eliminates your credibility and undermines your own cause.

I think it was largely about power. Such people get a sick pleasure and a sensation of power by killing and hurting people.


I agree with what you are saying except that we have to consider that there were 9,000 officers against millions of places to hide.

[Sancho]

Alas, the Monkey Wrench Gang was completely incompetent. The best way to get rid of that dam would be to wait for an earthquake.

Agreed.

In fact if I'm recalling the book correctly, it opens with one of the Monkey Wrenchers, Seldom Seen Smith, kneeling and praying to god for a surgical earthquake to smite the dam. Smith had owned land in Glen Canyon that was now on the bottom of the lake. He was called "Seldom Seen" because he was seldom seen at any of his homes (he had several families and several wives). As a "Smith" he was a direct descendant of Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon Church. Seldom Seen Smith, as you probably guessed, is a bit of a "Jack Mormon".

[JuniperWoolf]

There has been an earthquake in China (6.6), killing more than a hundred of people and leaving more than a thousand injured.


Yes... and a storage facility at the West Fertilizer Company in the town of West, Texas exploded, killing 14, injuring 200, and leveling half of the town.

It's a bad week. The Oklahoma city bombing and the Virginia Tech and Columbine shootings happened in the third week of April too. Also the Titanic crashed, Lincoln was assasinated, and the American Civil War began.

Don't worry though, May looks good:

•May 1 - Hitler died.
•May 2 - Special Forces kill Osama Bin Laden.
•May 5 - Alan Shepherd is first American in space.
•May 7 - Germany signs unconditional surrender.
•May 10 - Nelson Mandela inaugurated as President of South Africa.
•May 14 - Smallpox vaccine is developed.
•May 20 - Amelia Earhart is first woman to fly over Atlantic.
•May 24 - First telegraph message sent.
•May 27 - Golden Gate Bridge opens.

[qimissung]

What is it about April? Makes me think of one of my favorite poems by Edna St. Vincent Millay:

To what purpose, April, do you return again?
Beauty is not enough.
You can no longer quiet me with the redness
Of little leaves opening stickily.
I know what I know...

The rest is here:

http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/173994

Thanks for being a harbinger of good things to come, Juniper. I also really liked this article called "How Boston exposes America's dark post-9/11 bargain:



http://www.salon.com/2013/04/20/how_boston_exposes_americas_dark_post_911_bargain/

[OrphanPip]

Well it is the cruelest month, isn't it?

[Lokasenna]

Well it is the cruelest month, isn't it?

Took the words right out of my mouth!

[Hawkman]

Thanks for being a harbinger of good things to come, Juniper. I also really liked this article called "How Boston exposes America's dark post-9/11 bargain:



http://www.salon.com/2013/04/20/how_boston_exposes_americas_dark_post_911_bargain/

I'm not sure that the above article's point is entirely well made. It seems to bemoan "the loss of liberty" and the ineffectiveness of a "surveillance state," although it acknowledges that the freedom of Americans to have guns and kill each other is excluded. Firstly, on this side of the pond, we've been dealing with terrorism for quite a while. I can remember when the IRA were regularly blowing up pubs, hotels full of politicians and letting off car (Van/Truck) bombs in the city of London. It is simply an uncomfortable fact, that no matter how good your intelligence services are, there will always be someone who will get through or slip under the net. Surveillance doesn't prevent, although it might deter. Seeing someone planting a bomb is no guarantee that you can stop it exploding, or even know that they are planting a bomb. What it does provide is evidence you can look at after the event. The speed of identification with regard to the culprits in Boston is a case in point.

What should be of concern is how the information the surveillance provides is used and acted upon. The images which were almost instantly beamed around the web and news channels about the pursuit of the two bombers and the fire-fight that ensued, in what appeared to be a residential area, gave an impression of a wild west shootout where the cowboys were armed with automatic weapons. It's all sirens, flashing lights and "police Camera Action" stuff. Now I'm not saying you shouldn't shoot at someone who's shooting at you but I am saying that a little subtlety goes a long way. If your suspect is armed and dangerous, provoking him into a running gun battle in the street with a noisy posse is not the most intelligent approach. Follow him quietly and beard him in his lair. Contain him, evacuate civilians and either talk him out or go in and kill him in a controlled environment. Alternatively, take him in the open when he's somewhere where stray bullets won't plunge through the flimsy wooden walls of domestic buildings. Why don't Americans build houses out of brick anyway? True, it won't stop an AK round but it'll keep 9mm at bay.

The viral effect of the Web and the feeding frenzy of news and social media channels has already been commented upon. It is an exponential rumour mill with little or no accountability. With the possible exclusion of the regular news channels, it is neither controlled nor, I believe, controllable, and places an immense strain on the resources of those organisations which attempt to monitor it, and they must if incidents like Boston's need to be acted upon. It will be with us for as long as technology survives and comprises one of those freedoms which nobody wants to give up. The news media should know better though. Endless speculation is pointless. Just report the verified facts. Analysis and comment can come later. The trouble is that "news" is now a marketable and competitive corporate commodity. It represents money in the form of market share, ratings and advertising revenue. It has ceased to be a service conveying good information.

In conclusion, I wouldn't say that Americans made a pact with the devil after 9/11 they did it when they kidded themselves that they lived in a democracy, which, I might argue, takes us back to the Pilgrim Fathers. There is a long standing belief in the fallacy that the Pilgrim Fathers left England to escape religious persecution. This was not the case. The Pilgrim Fathers left England because they didn't agree with the religious tolerance which prevailed at the time. They left England to establish their own Theocracy in the New World.

I fear that the American People, like all people who live in Western style democracies, believe that their politicians serve them. They don't. Politicians serve themselves and the interests of big business, and the bigger the country, the bigger the population and the bigger the businesses - then the bigger the lie.

[YesNo]

I'm not sure that the above article's point is entirely well made. It seems to bemoan "the loss of liberty" and the ineffectiveness of a "surveillance state," although it acknowledges that the freedom of Americans to have guns and kill each other is excluded. Firstly, on this side of the pond, we've been dealing with terrorism for quite a while. I can remember when the IRA were regularly blowing up pubs, hotels full of politicians and letting off car (Van/Truck) bombs in the city of London. It is simply an uncomfortable fact, that no matter how good your intelligence services are, there will always be someone who will get through or slip under the net. Surveillance doesn't prevent, although it might deter. Seeing someone planting a bomb is no guarantee that you can stop it exploding, or even know that they are planting a bomb. What it does provide is evidence you can look at after the event. The speed of identification with regard to the culprits in Boston is a case in point.

Compared to the hotel bombing in The Iron Lady, which I recently saw, this seemed like a tiny bomb.



What should be of concern is how the information the surveillance provides is used and acted upon. The images which were almost instantly beamed around the web and news channels about the pursuit of the two bombers and the fire-fight that ensued, in what appeared to be a residential area, gave an impression of a wild west shootout where the cowboys were armed with automatic weapons. It's all sirens, flashing lights and "police Camera Action" stuff. Now I'm not saying you shouldn't shoot at someone who's shooting at you but I am saying that a little subtlety goes a long way. If your suspect is armed and dangerous, provoking him into a running gun battle in the street with a noisy posse is not the most intelligent approach. Follow him quietly and beard him in his lair. Contain him, evacuate civilians and either talk him out or go in and kill him in a controlled environment. Alternatively, take him in the open when he's somewhere where stray bullets won't plunge through the flimsy wooden walls of domestic buildings. Why don't Americans build houses out of brick anyway? True, it won't stop an AK round but it'll keep 9mm at bay.

It started as theater and ended as theater and those of us interested got to watch all the gory details. This should be a warning to terrorists. Their efforts could backfire as they did last week.

I don't think the police intended to kill the suspects. They would be more valuable alive to see whom else was involved. The most important thing to remember is this was not a therapy session. The police were lucky to even get one of the suspects alive.

Regarding whether April or May is the cruelest month, I'm reminded of the following saying:


April showers bring May flowers.

[Melanie]

...This should be a warning to terrorists. Their efforts could backfire as they did last week.
Many terrorists don't care about dying. In fact the 911 terrorist's religion (radical islam) believes that the greatest honor is martyrdom.

[tonywalt]

Hello Hannah I personally think that they should have been arrested alive and questioned over why they did what they did.
In order to get to the bottom of this incident one must talk about it and found out the causes behind the terrorism. Dealing with it by exposing its root is the only way to deroot it. Killing the culprits behind the heneous act will not stop others from repeating the same incident.

Cacian, How are people who threaten the government i.e. the King in your country of birth, Morroco(or another North African country) if I remember right, handled?

Although, I too am sorry things get so high handed and over the top in reaction - other than changing a country's foreign policy and staying out of international trenches like Japan or Germany models - not sure of a better option.

[YesNo]

Many terrorists don't care about dying. In fact the 911 terrorist's religion (radical islam) believes that the greatest honor is martyrdom.

Some might think that the attack did not backfire since the initial bombs actually went off, but still one of the suspects was captured alive and both were quickly identified, it makes me think this was a botched mission. It would be nice to know what group radicalized these two.

[Calidore]

I don't think the police intended to kill the suspects. They would be more valuable alive to see whom else was involved. The most important thing to remember is this was not a therapy session. The police were lucky to even get one of the suspects alive.


This is certainly true. The police would want to take everyone alive if at all possible for the information they could provide.

Interestingly, according to the updated story in the Chicago Tribune this morning, the older brother was not in fact killed by the police, but was run over by his younger brother taking off in the SUV.


Some might think that the attack did not backfire since the initial bombs actually went off, but still one of the suspects was captured alive and both were quickly identified, it makes me think this was a botched mission. It would be nice to know what group radicalized these two.

Funny, my thought was the opposite: If they'd been part of a group, they'd have been trained not to be such idiots.

[YesNo]

This is certainly true. The police would want to take everyone alive if at all possible for the information they could provide.

Interestingly, according to the updated story in the Chicago Tribune this morning, the older brother was not in fact killed by the police, but was run over by his younger brother taking off in the SUV.



Funny, my thought was the opposite: If they'd been part of a group, they'd have been trained not to be such idiots.

Some of these groups I imagine to be just a bunch of idiots. It is interesting that the younger brother may have killed the older one.

Although I don't want to minimize anything he did, the younger one at only 19 does get my sympathy almost as much as the 8 year old he killed. From my perspective they both seem like children. The older brother moved past the childhood stage in my mind.