April '13 / Cormac McCarthy Reading: All the Pretty Horses

[Scheherazade]

In April we will be reading All the Pretty Horses by Cormac McCarthy.

Please share your thoughts and comments in this thread.

[neilgee]

Has anybody started reading yet?

[Paulclem]

I'm going to download it onto my lovely Kindle tonight.

[Snowqueen]

Has anybody started reading yet?

Yes, I’ve started reading the novel. It’s going well so far. The protagonist seems to be a fifteen years old boy, John Grady.
His relationship with his parents is rather cold one, as the beginning of the novel suggests. It looks like there is a lot of depth in his character. Hopefully it will become more interesting with the development of the plot.
I haven’t read much because I’ve been busy lately.

[neilgee]

I'm up to page 66 of my copy, did read it a couple of years ago but I've forgotten so much of the detail (esp here at the beginning) that it feels as though I'm reading it for the first time.

What strikes me on second reading is the sense of danger that always seems to be prevalent in McCarthy's novels is here in abundance. As John Grady, Rawlins and Blevins ride through untamed country there's a feeling anything could happen to them at any time.

This is a novel that it takes work to get into, but the effort is worthwhile, I think.

[Paulclem]

Yes, I’ve started reading the novel. It’s going well so far. The protagonist seems to be a fifteen years old boy, John Grady.
His relationship with his parents is rather cold one, as the beginning of the novel suggests. It looks like there is a lot of depth in his character. Hopefully it will become more interesting with the development of the plot.
I haven’t read much because I’ve been busy lately.

I've read about a third of it so far, and I agree. As in No Country for Old Men and Blood Meridian, the country figures large. It is a dangerous place.

I got the sense that they also seemed to travel back in time - they leave the modern Texas with the endless fences and enter Mexico where the villages are little more than they were 100 years before.

[Dark Muse]

I intentionally did not nominate or vote in this one because I did not know if I would have time to fit in the book in, I have been rather busy lately and behind on my reading, but I really have been wanting to read this one, and it is not that long, so I will try and see if I can join in.

[Snowqueen]

I haven’t any other by Cormac McCarthy, it is my first novel. I’m enjoying his prose style. His imagery and description both are wonderful.

Mexico has seemed to provide three men an opportunity of not only to explore a new land, but to discover their own personalities.
I like the character of Blevins, he is a bit strange but funny and now it seems the poor fellow is on the run.

[neilgee]

I haven’t any other by Cormac McCarthy, it is my first novel. I’m enjoying his prose style. His imagery and description both are wonderful.

Mexico has seemed to provide three men an opportunity of not only to explore a new land, but to discover their own personalities.
I like the character of Blevins, he is a bit strange but funny and now it seems the poor fellow is on the run.

I was wondering what you made of Blevins shooting skills. It makes Blevins seem like a superhero type character, which is odd considering what happens later (without giving anything away for those who haven't read that far yet).

The thing is that the guns available at that time are not known for that level of accuracy...



Nice to have you with us, Dark Muse, at least there will be more than just the two of us discussing this one. :)

[chrisvia]

I'm a little over 200 pages in, and I've already littered my copy with Post-it notes. Once I finish, I'll post the thoughts/contents of those notes.

So far I'm experienecing it like other McCarthy novels: it takes me about 30-40 pages to get into the rhythm and style of his prose, and then I'm off and running (it's like I'm a horse he's breaking in: http://instantrimshot.com/). It's always a slow star with McCarthy, but he forces me to slow down and take in the story and the aesthetics without letting the latter blind me from the former (a common error of mine).

This novel isn't as dark and brooding as some of his others--even in parts where it should be dark and brooding, McCarthy kind of skims over it and keeps a focus on the plight of the human spirit, on hope.

Overall, enjoying it very much and looking forward to reading through the following 2 installments.

[Paulclem]

I was wondering what you made of Blevins shooting skills. It makes Blevins seem like a superhero type character, which is odd considering what happens later (without giving anything away for those who haven't read that far yet).

The thing is that the guns available at that time are not known for that level of accuracy...



Nice to have you with us, Dark Muse, at least there will be more than just the two of us discussing this one. :)

I felt that the references to the old boys and the journey into Mexico seemed to be taking them back to a simpler time. Blevins is like one of those gunfighters in the cowboy films when he shoots Rawlin's book, but of course that reference is undermined by him being very unlike a gufighter/ cowboy icon. In Blood Meridian and No Country for Old Men, I felt Mcarthy was subverting that cowboy image, and there seems to be an element of this here.

[Snowqueen]

I was wondering what you made of Blevins shooting skills. It makes Blevins seem like a superhero type character, which is odd considering what happens later (without giving anything away for those who haven't read that far yet).

The thing is that the guns available at that time are not known for that level of accuracy...



Nice to have you with us, Dark Muse, at least there will be more than just the two of us discussing this one. :)


I was surprised when Blevins showed off his shooting skills. I was under the impression that he is an outlaw or a cowboy, but his sensitive nature is revealed later on.
As far as Grady and Rawlins are concerned, I think their characters are still developing with the progress of story.

[neilgee]

I felt that the references to the old boys and the journey into Mexico seemed to be taking them back to a simpler time. Blevins is like one of those gunfighters in the cowboy films when he shoots Rawlin's book, but of course that reference is undermined by him being very unlike a gufighter/ cowboy icon. In Blood Meridian and No Country for Old Men, I felt Mcarthy was subverting that cowboy image, and there seems to be an element of this here.


It is something the hero of a cowboy film would be expected to do, putting a hole through a dime at twenty paces, it's an iconic image of the Western gunslinger, I think, and considering Blevin's fate McCarthy must be as you say subverting it. He's also adding an element of unrealism for me amongst a realistically described countryside etc, the putting a hole through a dime at 20 paces is to me a Hollywood myth that the inaccuracy of the guns available at the time makes highly unlikely.

The unsophisticated novel reader in me can't help expecting that Blevin's unlikely skill will be utilised in some way now we know he has it, but McCarthy doesn't do conventional plots...(I'll stop there, wary of giving too much away).

[neilgee]

I was surprised when Blevins showed off his shooting skills. I was under the impression that he is an outlaw or a cowboy, but his sensitive nature is revealed later on.
As far as Grady and Rawlins are concerned, I think their characters are still developing with the progress of story.

Rawlins doesn't want Blevins with them at all, he thinks it's an association that will lead to trouble.

[neilgee]

I'm a little over 200 pages in, and I've already littered my copy with Post-it notes. Once I finish, I'll post the thoughts/contents of those notes.

So far I'm experienecing it like other McCarthy novels: it takes me about 30-40 pages to get into the rhythm and style of his prose, and then I'm off and running (it's like I'm a horse he's breaking in: http://instantrimshot.com/). It's always a slow star with McCarthy, but he forces me to slow down and take in the story and the aesthetics without letting the latter blind me from the former (a common error of mine).

This novel isn't as dark and brooding as some of his others--even in parts where it should be dark and brooding, McCarthy kind of skims over it and keeps a focus on the plight of the human spirit, on hope.

Overall, enjoying it very much and looking forward to reading through the following 2 installments.

It's not as grim to read as Blood Meridian and the story moves along quickly but there are still some very dark moments in the novel, don't know if you've reached them yet.

[scottw]

I haven't read the novel again for this month's book club but I did read it as recently as last summer. This was my third McCarthy novel after The Road and Child of God. McCarthy's writing somehow manages to be so simple on the page yet so rich and colourful and full of texture.

I will always remember reading the first few pages in the bookshop to see if the novel was what I was looking for that day. I could almost feel the floorboards creaking beneath my own feet as he described that sombre scene at the coffin. Outside, McCarthy does something for the first time in this book I consider him a master at. All is still and quiet in the night, and the prose on the page is made of short sentences, choppy, quiet. Then, as the distant quiet rumble of a train begins to build, so does the length of the prose - until the train is hammering through and the fence is shaking and everything is torn apart by the noise and it goes on and on and slowly starts to descend again. The rush of longer prose on the page leaves you slightly breathless and the effect is jut like a train crashing through and leaving you slightly shocked in its passing. Brilliant. To manipulate the reader's feelings not only with the words he is using but with sentence length and arrangement!

[chrisvia]

Rawlins doesn't want Blevins with them at all, he thinks it's an association that will lead to trouble.

I am with Rawlins on this one! But McCarthy's use of this third wheel is really helping to sharpen the characters of Rawlins and John Grady.

[Snowqueen]

I have read more than 100 pages, and the story is smoothly moving forward so far. In fact it has become more exciting with the introduction of new characters specially “hecendado” and his daughter.
Don Hector Rocha seems to be a clever man with dominating personality. The way McCarthy portrayed him conveys a sense of danger. I think working on his ranch will lead the hero and his friend to some kind of trouble. I could be wrong.

[WyattGwyon]

A few remarks relevant to the discussion so far:

Blevins is about 13 years old, right?

Re the accuracy of period weapons: Don't the events of the novel take place in the mid-20th century? I would think there were precision firearms at that time. The basic observation is right though—that is some implausibly good shooting. Not as implausible as Natty Bumpo's though (see Twain's hilarious critique of James Fenimore Cooper.)

Cowboy values and dark tone: About half of McCarthy's novels uphold the old cowboy ideals and moral code, the other half (including Blood Meridian) undercut them. Same with the tone of his novels: About half are dark and grim, the other half are optimistic and uplifting.

[WyattGwyon]

I have read more than 100 pages, and the story is smoothly moving forward so far. In fact it has become more exciting with the introduction of new characters specially “hecendado” and his daughter.
Don Hector Rocha seems to be a clever man with dominating personality. The way McCarthy portrayed him conveys a sense of danger. I think working on his ranch will lead the hero and his friend to some kind of trouble. I could be wrong.

I won't comment so as not to spoil anything, but: McCarthy is quite unpredictable in his plotting and often eschews the obvious and expected.

[neilgee]

I haven't read the novel again for this month's book club but I did read it as recently as last summer. This was my third McCarthy novel after The Road and Child of God. McCarthy's writing somehow manages to be so simple on the page yet so rich and colourful and full of texture.

I will always remember reading the first few pages in the bookshop to see if the novel was what I was looking for that day. I could almost feel the floorboards creaking beneath my own feet as he described that sombre scene at the coffin. Outside, McCarthy does something for the first time in this book I consider him a master at. All is still and quiet in the night, and the prose on the page is made of short sentences, choppy, quiet. Then, as the distant quiet rumble of a train begins to build, so does the length of the prose - until the train is hammering through and the fence is shaking and everything is torn apart by the noise and it goes on and on and slowly starts to descend again. The rush of longer prose on the page leaves you slightly breathless and the effect is jut like a train crashing through and leaving you slightly shocked in its passing. Brilliant. To manipulate the reader's feelings not only with the words he is using but with sentence length and arrangement!

You just reminded me of the gale that is blowing at the burial at the start of the novel and how that sets the tone, this is novel where you are at Nature's mercy from the beginning to the end of life.

[neilgee]

I have read more than 100 pages, and the story is smoothly moving forward so far. In fact it has become more exciting with the introduction of new characters specially “hecendado” and his daughter.
Don Hector Rocha seems to be a clever man with dominating personality. The way McCarthy portrayed him conveys a sense of danger. I think working on his ranch will lead the hero and his friend to some kind of trouble. I could be wrong.

Yes, the love interest is a welcome break from all that cowboy stuff.

I can't remember too exactly what happens at the ranch despite my previous reading so we'll be discovering that together. I'm going to crack on with reading it again now :)

[neilgee]

A few remarks relevant to the discussion so far:

Blevins is about 13 years old, right?

Re the accuracy of period weapons: Don't the events of the novel take place in the mid-20th century? I would think there were precision firearms at that time. The basic observation is right though—that is some implausibly good shooting. Not as implausible as Natty Bumpo's though (see Twain's hilarious critique of James Fenimore Cooper.)

Cowboy values and dark tone: About half of McCarthy's novels uphold the old cowboy ideals and moral code, the other half (including Blood Meridian) undercut them. Same with the tone of his novels: About half are dark and grim, the other half are optimistic and uplifting.

Yes, Blevins is 13, and extraordinarily hardened in the art of survival for that age. Seems he just had to grow up fast in that world.

I was thinking that even with a rifle with modern sights would have trouble hitting a small flying target like that so maybe the accuracy of the weapon isn't really an issue, maybe it is so exaggerated as a warning to the reader not to realistically expect this to make any difference to Blevin's fate.

[Snowqueen]

I won't comment so as not to spoil anything, but: McCarthy is quite unpredictable in his plotting and often eschews the obvious and expected.
The way events are unfolding in this novel, I’ve realized that it’s not going to be an ordinary plot.


Yes, the love interest is a welcome break from all that cowboy stuff.

I can't remember too exactly what happens at the ranch despite my previous reading so we'll be discovering that together. I'm going to crack on with reading it again now :)

Excellent! :)



Yes, Blevins is 13, and extraordinarily hardened in the art of survival for that age. Seems he just had to grow up fast in that world.

.

Oh, Blevins is thirteen! He tells Grady that he was 16 years old. He must be lying then and Rawlins saw through him.

A few lines from the novel.


“The boy looked up at the hatbrim over his eyes. He looked at Rawlins.
How old are you? said John Grady.
Sixteen.
Rawlins spat. You're a lyin sack of green ****.”

[neilgee]

Oh, Blevins is thirteen! He tells Grady that he was 16 years old. He must be lying then and Rawlins saw through him.



A few lines from the novel.


“The boy looked up at the hatbrim over his eyes. He looked at Rawlins.
How old are you? said John Grady.
Sixteen.
Rawlins spat. You're a lyin sack of green ****.”

You must be close to the part where Blevins reappears in the novel now, and all I'll say is it made me reevaluate Blevins' survival skills, thinking he can just take back what he used to own but has passed out of his hands is never going to work for him in that society.

There is a website dedicated to Cormac McCarthy (http://www.cormacmccarthy.com/about-the-society/). It used to have a translation of all the lines in Spanish but they have taken it down unfortunately.

[Paulclem]

Finished it last night - excellent book. I always manage to read Mcarthy's books quickly.

I was thinking about the parallel between Blevins and John Grady. They both escaped with horses, but Blevins valued the pistol too much. Mcarthy seems to value the relationship to horses, and the Mexicans seem to revere them in an almost mystical way.

[chrisvia]

Finished the book Saturday night, and let it simmer in meditation all day yesterday. As usual with McCarthy, I zoomed through the first couple hundred pages, and then slowly worked my way through the final hundred or so, about ten pages at a time.

As I mentioned earlier, I used Post-it notes throughout my reading, so I'll make a larger post with the contents of those notes.

But the main thing I took away was the novel as an elegy. There are many, many tropes that capture that longing for the past, for simpler times, the watching as something slips away, and the clash between the old and the new (several times a horse is disturbed by an automobile, and must be calmed again by the rider).

Anyway, I voted the highest rating on this one because, yes, I would and will highly recommend it!

[Paulclem]

Me too.

There is an interesting theme in this and No Country for Old Men - fate. There seems to be a kind of tension between predestination and chance. Anton Chigurh presents when he asks people to call it - do you remember the great scene in the film at the gas station where Chigurh asks the proprietor to call it ? (Doesn't Xavier Bardem make it a really creepy scene?). There's a passage in this book where a similar philosophy is expounded by the Aunt.

[chrisvia]

Me too.

There is an interesting theme in this and No Country for Old Men - fate. There seems to be a kind of tension between predestination and chance. Anton Chigurh presents when he asks people to call it - do you remember the great scene in the film at the gas station where Chigurh asks the proprietor to call it ? (Doesn't Xavier Bardem make it a really creepy scene?). There's a passage in this book where a similar philosophy is expounded by the Aunt.

Well put. I, too, noticed the preoccupation with fate. The aunt's philosophical treatise/family history/recap of Mexican revolution is the longest dialogue in the book. I was completely drawn in by her speech and intensity.

[Snowqueen]

I finished it last night and it’s an enjoyable read from the beginning till end.

McCarthy has a wonderful narrative style. There is a flow in the story and it never stops or gets boring. Exclusion of commas was something unique and new to me, but it suited his style.

I also kept on thinking about the title of this novel. It definitely has some symbolic significance, because horses play an important role in it. John Grady puts his life in jeopardy to free them and they seem to be the only living beings that remain faithful to him till the end.





There is a website dedicated to Cormac McCarthy (http://www.cormacmccarthy.com/about-the-society/). It used to have a translation of all the lines in Spanish but they have taken it down unfortunately.

Thanks for sharing the link. I’ve been visiting this website and it has the translation.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:MoBgixfuRX0J:cormacmccarthy.cookingwithmar ty.com/wp-content/uploads/ATPHTrans.pdf+spanish+translation+of+all+the+prett y+horses&hl=en&gl=pk&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjaCF9lrDdzu51UcNpi6-Q5iMX9YNckYy31t7fbhZLfQHGjQ_hXCintjalp0jI9MPWs8kNc 8520I0a-tLT2Alui9OZ9T0OZrTd_FchOtbA1XiVJZ99G-2cLTI5jQUm4FyuLshWa&sig=AHIEtbQfpFsjOCcZ_uljrDTu-gKl2hSglQ

[chrisvia]

The title has been something that I keep putting off, but I think I finally have a starting point for my pondering of it. Initially my wife laughed at me for reading a book called All the Pretty Horses. But then I told her this was the same author as Blood Meridian, The Road, and No Country for Old Men. She, like me, was taken aback by this. At first I just chalked the title up to irony: I knew that despite such a flowery title there would be bloodshed, terse dialogue, and merciless retribution. And, sure, there were many references to the passion for horses--but, still: why this title?

This morning something clicked. The title recalls the playful, childish, exclamation, "Look at all the pretty horses." Such as a parent would say to a child in order to console or otherwise draw their attention away from other things (or just simply because the parent knows the child will be thrilled). In this way it is almost as if John Grady is able to regress to this childlike state of enchantment when regarding the pretty horses, thus drawing his attention and worries away from the ills of life.

Just some thought fodder here.

[Paulclem]

Do you remember them referring to the painting of horses, and someone - I forget who - asks what kind of horses they are, and the response is something like - them's picture book horses - not real. This might be a reference to an ideal horse - a platonic view expressed in the painting. it seems to go along with the old Mexican's view of them that they are linked to the earth and a part of it. is this why John Grady survives and Blevins does not? Blevins wants the gun too.

[chrisvia]

Do you remember them referring to the painting of horses, and someone - I forget who - asks what kind of horses they are, and the response is something like - them's picture book horses - not real. This might be a reference to an ideal horse - a platonic view expressed in the painting. it seems to go along with the old Mexican's view of them that they are linked to the earth and a part of it. is this why John Grady survives and Blevins does not? Blevins wants the gun too.

You've also got me thinking about a recurring theme of "chasing the ghost," the ghost being an ideal that doesn't exist in reality.

[neilgee]

I was caught on the hop when I checked in last night and saw you had all finished the book, so I got a move on and finished it today. There's been some very interesting ideas, PaulC about why Blevins doesn't survive and Chrisvia with that phrase used for children "look at all the pretty horses".

I'm wondering if there's also a relationship from McCarthy's point of view between the unspoiled country they travel through and the innocence of the young men traveling out in the world for the first time, two kinds of innocence but the human kind of innocence is destroyed by the end of the book.



I like the character of Blevins, he is a bit strange but funny and now it seems the poor fellow is on the run.

I'm wondering what you thought of the way Blevins died, there isn't much preamble to it, he reappears in the novel in prison and then he's murdered, and he's the least substantial of the three main characters, sometimes it seems that his ghost is more powerful than his physical presence was in what his memory drives John Grady to do.

At least there's a real sense of justice in what happens to the Mexican "Captain" (and indeed in the appearance before an American judge near the end), it's been noted in the thread about Blood Meridian that you don't always get that in McCarthy novels.

I was bemused by what happens to the Captain ultimately. Who on earth are these men who appear in the night and take him away in handcuffs whilst leaving Grady to go free and make his way home?

[WyattGwyon]

The title has been something that I keep putting off, but I think I finally have a starting point for my pondering of it. Initially my wife laughed at me for reading a book called All the Pretty Horses. But then I told her this was the same author as Blood Meridian, The Road, and No Country for Old Men. She, like me, was taken aback by this. At first I just chalked the title up to irony: I knew that despite such a flowery title there would be bloodshed, terse dialogue, and merciless retribution. And, sure, there were many references to the passion for horses--but, still: why this title?

This morning something clicked. The title recalls the playful, childish, exclamation, "Look at all the pretty horses." Such as a parent would say to a child in order to console or otherwise draw their attention away from other things (or just simply because the parent knows the child will be thrilled). In this way it is almost as if John Grady is able to regress to this childlike state of enchantment when regarding the pretty horses, thus drawing his attention and worries away from the ills of life.

Just some thought fodder here.

Actually, Chris, you aren't far off. The novel shares its title with a well-known folk song, a lullaby of African American origin. The words—well, one of many versions—are as follows:

All the Pretty Horses

Hush-a-bye, don't you cry
Go to sleepy little baby
When you wake you'll have cake
And all the pretty little horses
Blacks and bays, dapples and grays
All the pretty little horses ("Coach and eight with plumes a dancing" is a common later variant)

Way down yonder in the meadow
There's a poor wee little lamby
Bees and flies sting its eyes
Poor thing crying for its mammy
Hush-a-bye, don't you cry
Go to sleepy little baby.

The subtext here is that the song is likely being sung by an African American house slave to her white charge, and that the poor lamby is the nurse's own child who, for obvious reasons, is receiving less of its mother's care. Here is the performance of a variant that makes the subtext explicit—what she might sing if only the baby could hear:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7QXidR_Aks

Aaron Copland did an orchestral setting of this song (with a later, expurgated version of the text) in a collection of American folk songs. I forget the exact title of the Copland opus but anyone interested will find it with ease. Here is a performance of a version with piano accompaniment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FYKWS_zn28

If I remember correctly, Meryl Streep sings a version of this tune (in 3/4 time; Copland's setting is in duple meter) in the movie Silkwood.

[Snowqueen]

I'm wondering what you thought of the way Blevins died, there isn't much preamble to it, he reappears in the novel in prison and then he's murdered, and he's the least substantial of the three main characters, sometimes it seems that his ghost is more powerful than his physical presence was in what his memory drives John Grady to do.



I agree, his death was very tragic. Rawlins and John Grady both can’t seem to get it out of their heads though John Grady didn’t openly express it like Rawlins but it leaves its marks on John Grady’s character.





I was bemused by what happens to the Captain ultimately. Who on earth are these men who appear in the night and take him away in handcuffs whilst leaving Grady to go free and make his way home?

I really have no idea who those men were. God bless them for taking that Captain away! He was nothing but a burden to Grady. Maybe Captain owed them some money as John Grady suggests when he realizes that they were being fallowed.

[WyattGwyon]

I've been thinking about the title since pointing out its connection to the eponymous lullaby and came up with something: In the song, the little (white) babies are told they will have "all the pretty little horses," as if it is their birthright. The same would have been true of people like John Grady, Rawlins, and Billy Parham (the main character in the The Crossing, the second book in the border trilogy), born as they were to Texas ranchers—except that their mode of life is dying out in the U.S.; And being denied their birthright in the States, they seek their fortune and that promised way of life in Mexico.

Okay, it's not much, but it's a start.