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ProfessorPeter
04-03-2013, 05:10 PM
Across the span of recorded history, at the birth of writing and civilization, there was the Epic of Gilgamesh. This seminal tale of gods, kings, battles, friendship, loss, the fear of death, the search for immortality and advice on how one should live life, represents the first great work of literature.

While the origin of the Epic of Gilgamesh is lost to the sands of time, it is probable that this story had been verbally transmitted for a very long time before the invention of writing, but we have no way of knowing when, where or why the story actually originated or even how many original contributors there were. What we do know is that the story encompassed a large number of concepts, ideas and philosophies, and was considered important enough that it was told from generation to generation for hundreds of years, before being immortalized in clay around four thousand years ago.

Unfortunately, the original "Old Babylonian" version of the Epic of Gilgamesh is incomplete, making it difficult for us to piece together the exact story our ancient ancestors considered so important. However, several critical fragments of the original Epic have been recovered and differ in significant ways from later more complete versions. One of the most fascinating of these original fragments is the Sippar tablet which was discovered near the city of Sippar, on the Euphrates river, upstream of the Babylonian region in present day Iraq. The Sippar tablet contains the earliest recorded advice, presented by a beautiful young girl called Siduri, on how we should live our lives. Interestingly, in a later version of the Epic of Gilgamesh (referred to as the "Akkadian" version) Siduri’s advice was removed from the Epic and much of her original role was given to Utnapishtim, an immortal wise old man. One theory for the diminishment of Siduri’s role is that Siduri being young, female and working class (a wine maker), and Utnapishtim being old, male and high class (an immortal wise man) may have contributed, and may suggest possible differences between Sumerian and Akkadian culture. Specifically, this change may highlight a degree of ageism, sexism and/or classism in Akkadian culture, and the removal of Siduri's advice could represent the first recorded case of censorship.

Siduri's words come to us from the beginning of recorded history, but what exactly was her message? How exactly we deconstruct the brief text on the Sippar tablet is open to individual interpretation, and a major caveat of the following section is that it represents my analysis of her words, and I fully respect that others may reach different conclusions.

Siduri's ancient advice, as recorded on the Sippar tablet:

"Whither are you wandering?
Life, which you look for,
you will never find.
For when the gods created man,
they let death be his share,
and life withheld in their own hands.
Fill your belly,
day and night make merry,
let days be full of joy,
dance and make music day and night.
And wear fresh clothes,
and wash your head and bathe.
Look at the child that is holding your hand,
and let your wife delight in your embrace.
These things alone are the concern of men."
http://EpicOfGilgamesh.webs.com

In my perspective, the three core concepts of Siduri's philosophy are: 1) understanding, 2) joy and 3) family.

1. Understanding. Siduri tries to understand Gilgamesh, his motivations, his pain at the loss of his brother and his dream for immortality, and she advises him to understand that we must all eventually die and must accept our mortality. Siduri teaches us first to try to understand others in our lives, what their motivations are and can we see things from their perspective. If we wish to follow Siduri’s ancient teachings, we should make every effort to live with understanding in our lives, and make sure that our colleagues, friends and family feel that we appreciate their point of view.

Dale Carnegie elegantly developed this concept of understanding in his extremely popular book "How to win friends and influence people" and one of his key suggestions was that we should look to understand and sincerely appreciate other people and their perspectives. Carnegie advocated sincere appreciation but was extremely disapproving of flattery, which is at its core insincere. If we can find nothing to sincerely appreciate then perhaps we are not looking hard enough! Siduri and Carnegie teach that we should make every effort to find common ground that will genuinely interest us and let us understand the world through the eyes of our friends, colleagues and family. The Sidurian concept of understanding is one of the most important abilities we can possess and represents a skill that, if regularly practiced, should dramatically improve our interactions with others and help guide us towards a happier life.

2) Joy. Siduri tells Gilgamesh to "Fill your belly. Day and night make merry, let days be full of joy, dance and make music day and night". We should consider heeding Siduri's advice and living lives full of music, dancing, good food, good wine and general merriment. However, while seeking a life full of joy, Siduri also advises us to keep our daily responsibilities in mind and "wear fresh clothes, and wash your head and bathe". It is unclear exactly how far we can interpret Siduri’s words on minding to our daily responsibilities, but it may be prudent for us to include attending to our mental, physical and financial well-being as a foundation to build future joy on. We must be healthy if we are to dance day and night, and good food and wine require a stable source of income! Nevertheless, we can, while attending to our daily responsibilities, consider making every effort to introduce joy into our lives, and do what makes us happy.

Joy, specifically, the concept that we should look to promote joy in our lives, was developed into its most extreme form by the Hedonistic philosopher Aristippus of Cyrene (one of the students of Socrates) who held that the sensation of pleasure was the highest good. Some have claimed that Siduri promoted Hedonism and her advice to Gilgamesh was the first recorded advocacy of Hedonism and the general Carpe Diem (seize the day) concept. While Siduri was the first recorded to advocate the Carpe Diem concept, she did not support unbridled Hedonism and immediately following her instructions to seek joy and merriment, she then advised Gilgamesh to also tend to more mundane responsibilities. Therefore, at most, Siduri promoted "Responsible Hedonism" and should we wish to follow Siduri's advice we should bear this distinction in mind. Indeed, the Sidurian concept of joy, or "Responsible Hedonism", can help guide us towards a happier life as long as we do not fall into the trap of irresponsibility!

3) Family. Siduri ends her advice to Gilgamesh with "Look at the child that is holding your hand and let your wife delight in your embrace. These things alone are the concern of men". In this, Siduri ends on a very strong pro-family message, the general implication for us being that we should get married, have a family and make sure our children and significant others are happy. Specifically, that we should pay attention to our children and ensure our significant others are delighted in our embrace. We can interpret "embrace" in both its platonic and sexual forms, although the latter interpretation of Siduri's teachings would appear to be the one most often associated with delight and making a new family. It is interesting to note that while Gilgamesh sought physical immortality, Siduri suggested he abandon his quest and instead focus on family. Richard Dawkins in "The Selfish Gene" suggests that through our children we pass on the essence of who we are. These genes, or as Dawkins called them "immortal coils", give us a form of genetic immortality through our children and our children's children. This drive to procreate is the core purpose of life, not just for humans, but for all life on this planet, and only by achieving our fundamental biological purpose to procreate can we achieve the deepest happiness and contentment with our lives.

On a personal note, the Sidurian concepts of understanding, joy and family have dramatically improved my life and had a profound positive psychological influence on me. Specifically, I have found the Sidurian concept of understanding to be one that has improved my marriage and helped me in my work. Trying to understand things from my wife's point of view has made her significantly happier and she has reciprocated, making me happier. At work, I was tasked to give a presentation to a group of highly skeptical colleagues, with little chance of a successful outcome. I discarded my original presentation and re-created one from scratch, trying to find and mention areas of collaborative interest for each person, by name, in the group. It took a lot of time, thought and effort, but the change was incredible, skeptics became supporters and the proposal was approved.

I have found the Sidurian concept of joy to be a pleasure to introduce. I purchased and play singing and dancing video games with my wife and daughter, dance with them and I must admit to enjoying Siduri's support for feasting and drinking wine! I have also kept my responsibilities in mind, working hard, socializing with friends and making sure I stay healthy.

The desire for a family is one that I have agreed with for many years, and while on a superficial level sleep deprivation and stress can be regular annoyances, there is no deeper source of happiness in my life than my family. For me at least, Siduri's teachings have worked and continue to work, and although you inhabit a different world, and your interpretations of her words may differ, I suspect her ancient advice will nevertheless work for you too.

While Siduri's words are over 4,000 years old we can still today take her philosophies to heart and try to live with more understanding, joy and appreciation of family in our lives. Although ancient, good advice is eternal, and Siduri’s teachings can help guide us to happier lives today.

Warm regards,
Peter Dyr
Author "The Epic of Gilgamesh, the Teachings of Siduri and How Siduri's Ancient Advice Can Help Guide Us to a Happier Life"
Free eBook can be downloaded at:
http://EpicOfGilgamesh.webs.com

YesNo
04-03-2013, 10:29 PM
Thanks for bringing up Siduri. It is the first time I've heard of her. I like her advice.

osho
04-04-2013, 04:21 AM
In fact barring ancient literature we are nowhere and in fact all we have is the accruals of our past experiences. Everyone of us is a book and all our knowledge, perceptions, beliefs, philosophies have their roots, sources or founts in ancient literature and we are not what we are if we disregard our relationship with the ancients. We are part of what our elders, predecessors were, and their thoughts, feelings, experiences, beliefs and urges run through our veins and arteries and there are two halves that make us one: one half is our ancient persona and the other is our modern character. We are a little bit of the past and a little bit of the present. Our parents have projected / conditioned our minds and our educations are things of the past have molded our mindsets.

YesNo
04-04-2013, 08:36 AM
One of the things that I kept thinking of is why did you cite Richard Dawkins rather than people who have studied Gilgamesh?

bIGwIRE
04-04-2013, 10:20 AM
I have always found the women in Gilgamesh very intriguing, and Siduri is no exception.

On the surface her advice seems hedonistic, but after some reflection I am inclined to side with your analysis, that she is very realistic and practical.

It is also interesting that the two married women mentioned in Gilgamesh, Utnaphishtim's wife and the Scorpion's man's wife, are not named. Their characters remain anonymous, operating in the backround, behind their man.

Siduri, on the other hand, is not only named, but portrayed as a wise woman, and one who fully supports herself. This is also true of the prostitute, Shamhat. Both of these women occupy a place of low repute in society, and yet they almost seem to take on a maternal role toward Gigamesh and Enkidu, reminiscent of Ninsun, the divine mother of Gigamesh.

Another interesting point; Siduri is a tavernkeeper, working as a sort of brewer/barmaid. Taverns had bad reputations, serving as places to drink, entertainment, and a place to meet prostitutes. They were also noted for their relationship to the Ishtar cult. ("When I sit at the entrance of the tavern, I am loving a prostitute" states one hymnic passage, and Enkidu's curse also brings taverns and prostitution together)
Despite this, Siduri is pictured as wearing a veil, like a modest Assyrian wife would be, but the tavernkeeper (sabitu) would surely not be commonly found wearing veils. This is one of many status and role reversals in the Gilgamesh Epic.

Another example is Shamhat. Though prostitutes were routinely visited by men in ancient Mesopotamia, they were seen as a threat to the stability and happiness of the family unit. (no kidding, right?) Yet, in Gilgamesh she is portrayed as a maternal, wise, and helpful woman.

Both Shamhat an Siduri are, in a sense, elevated to the role of mother. I find these portrayals fascinating, and I can definitely see their impact on many later works.

chrisvia
04-04-2013, 11:22 AM
I have been wanting to read Gilgamesh ever since I first discovered it in a Western Civilization course a while ago. And this essay has rekindled that desire.

Can anyone recommend an edition? I see there is a "New English Translation" available: http://www.amazon.com/Gilgamesh-A-New-English-Version/dp/0743261690/.

ProfessorPeter
04-04-2013, 12:03 PM
I have been wanting to read Gilgamesh ever since I first discovered it in a Western Civilization course a while ago. And this essay has rekindled that desire.

Can anyone recommend an edition?

Hi Chrisvia, that's great to hear, I love the Gilgamesh story and hope you will enjoy it!

Perhaps I am a touch biased, but I would recommend my own translation for easy reading. It is available on my website for free.

Http://EpicOfGilgamesh.webs.com

In my version I have used the original eariler texts (Old Babylonian) wherever possible and used the later tablets to "fill in the gaps" and provide a complete story. I hope you enjoy :)

Best wishes,
Peter

ProfessorPeter
04-04-2013, 12:06 PM
Thanks for bringing up Siduri. It is the first time I've heard of her. I like her advice.

You're more than welcome. It amazes me how few people have heard of Siduri. This is almost certainly a reflection of how her fascinating advice was removed from the Standard Akkadian edition of the Epic of Gilgamesh. One of the goals of my writing is to hopefully give Siduri the recognition I believe she deserves.

ProfessorPeter
04-04-2013, 12:06 PM
One of the things that I kept thinking of is why did you cite Richard Dawkins rather than people who have studied Gilgamesh?

I was looking for people who had expanded upon the themes that Siduri touched on in her advice. The most influential people, for me, for the concept of understanding was Dale Carnegie, for the concept of joy was Aristippus of Cyrene and for the concept of family/biological inheritance was Richard Dawkins. None of these people, to my knowledge, directly studied Gilgamesh (or at least they did not mention it in their writings) but the concepts within Siduri's philosophy exist in our culture independently. Indeed, while Siduri's advice represents the first written record of these cultural concepts, they almost certainly date back into our distant prehistory and perhaps even to our earlier hominid ancestors. What Carnegie, Aristippus and Dawkins did, in my opinion, was take these key cultural concepts and present them in an inspirational way that has expanded upon and clarified them to millions of people. It was for this reason that I felt it was appropriate to mention them.

ProfessorPeter
04-04-2013, 12:16 PM
In fact barring ancient literature we are nowhere and in fact all we have is the accruals of our past experiences. Everyone of us is a book and all our knowledge, perceptions, beliefs, philosophies have their roots, sources or founts in ancient literature and we are not what we are if we disregard our relationship with the ancients. We are part of what our elders, predecessors were, and their thoughts, feelings, experiences, beliefs and urges run through our veins and arteries and there are two halves that make us one: one half is our ancient persona and the other is our modern character. We are a little bit of the past and a little bit of the present. Our parents have projected / conditioned our minds and our educations are things of the past have molded our mindsets.

Hi OSHO, I fully agree with you and could not have put it better myself. Scientifically and culturally we "stand on the shoulders of giants" and it is the accumulated knowledge of our ancestors that makes our species unique in this world. One of the reasons I was drawn to the earliest literature is that it is the act of writing that really acted as the catalyst for this process. No longer was our species limited to the knowledge that could be recollected from memory, but we could record important information, discoveries and ideas that could last thousands of years. The Epic of Gilgamesh and Siduri's advice is the earliest great work of literature that is filled with these concepts making it a peephole into our distant past to see where we came from.

Best wishes,
Peter

ProfessorPeter
04-04-2013, 12:33 PM
I have always found the women in Gilgamesh very intriguing, and Siduri is no exception.

On the surface her advice seems hedonistic, but after some reflection I am inclined to side with your analysis, that she is very realistic and practical.

It is also interesting that the two married women mentioned in Gilgamesh, Utnaphishtim's wife and the Scorpion's man's wife, are not named. Their characters remain anonymous, operating in the backround, behind their man.

Siduri, on the other hand, is not only named, but portrayed as a wise woman, and one who fully supports herself. This is also true of the prostitute, Shamhat. Both of these women occupy a place of low repute in society, and yet they almost seem to take on a maternal role toward Gigamesh and Enkidu, reminiscent of Ninsun, the divine mother of Gigamesh.

Another interesting point; Siduri is a tavernkeeper, working as a sort of brewer/barmaid. Taverns had bad reputations, serving as places to drink, entertainment, and a place to meet prostitutes. They were also noted for their relationship to the Ishtar cult. ("When I sit at the entrance of the tavern, I am loving a prostitute" states one hymnic passage, and Enkidu's curse also brings taverns and prostitution together)
Despite this, Siduri is pictured as wearing a veil, like a modest Assyrian wife would be, but the tavernkeeper (sabitu) would surely not be commonly found wearing veils. This is one of many status and role reversals in the Gilgamesh Epic.

Another example is Shamhat. Though prostitutes were routinely visited by men in ancient Mesopotamia, they were seen as a threat to the stability and happiness of the family unit. (no kidding, right?) Yet, in Gilgamesh she is portrayed as a maternal, wise, and helpful woman.

Both Shamhat an Siduri are, in a sense, elevated to the role of mother. I find these portrayals fascinating, and I can definitely see their impact on many later works.

Thank you so much for posting this, it was very interesting. You are clearly very well read in this subject, more so than myself. I was especially intrigued by your last comment and would very much appreciate it if you might consider elaborating on some of the later works you have seen her impact on. My tentative hypothesis to date has been that Siduri, or more specifically Siduri's advice, did not directly impact later works because it was cut out of the standard Akkadian version and her role was so diminished, but I remain hopeful that this is not the case. You clearly have more expertise than I do in this area and I would love to look into putative examples of her impact in later works.

Best wishes,
Peter

chrisvia
04-04-2013, 04:35 PM
Wow! Many, many thanks, Professor!

bIGwIRE
04-04-2013, 11:14 PM
I have been wanting to read Gilgamesh ever since I first discovered it in a Western Civilization course a while ago. And this essay has rekindled that desire.
Can anyone recommend an edition?

I like the Norton Critical Edition. It has all the different versions, and also anaylasis, side notes, and essays.

bIGwIRE
04-04-2013, 11:40 PM
Thank you so much for posting this, it was very interesting. You are clearly very well read in this subject, more so than myself. I was especially intrigued by your last comment and would very much appreciate it if you might consider elaborating on some of the later works you have seen her impact on. My tentative hypothesis to date has been that Siduri, or more specifically Siduri's advice, did not directly impact later works because it was cut out of the standard Akkadian version and her role was so diminished, but I remain hopeful that this is not the case. You clearly have more expertise than I do in this area and I would love to look into putative examples of her impact in later works.

Best wishes,
Peter

Hi Peter,
I love that you brought up the Gilgamesh Epic. Welcome to the forum, I hope you stick around. :)

Siduri is thought by some to be the model of Circe in Homer's Odyssey. Both are divine and help direct the hero. Like Circe, Siduri lives by the sea away from civilisation, and there are some other similarities, too.
The goddesses Ishtar and Ninsun are also echoed by Homer, among others.

A good study on this is Martin West's The East Face of Helicon: West Asiatic Elements in Greek Poetry and Myth. (Oxford 1997)

As far as Shamhat. The noble prostitute, portrayed as a maternal and wise woman, has almost become cliche. You can see models of this character everywhere, from Homer and Virgil to Dostoevsky.

YesNo
04-05-2013, 08:09 AM
I was looking for people who had expanded upon the themes that Siduri touched on in her advice. The most influential people, for me, for the concept of understanding was Dale Carnegie, for the concept of joy was Aristippus of Cyrene and for the concept of family/biological inheritance was Richard Dawkins. None of these people, to my knowledge, directly studied Gilgamesh (or at least they did not mention it in their writings) but the concepts within Siduri's philosophy exist in our culture independently. Indeed, while Siduri's advice represents the first written record of these cultural concepts, they almost certainly date back into our distant prehistory and perhaps even to our earlier hominid ancestors. What Carnegie, Aristippus and Dawkins did, in my opinion, was take these key cultural concepts and present them in an inspirational way that has expanded upon and clarified them to millions of people. It was for this reason that I felt it was appropriate to mention them.

I don't know much about Dale Carnegie nor Aristippus of Cyrene. Perhaps they are now so un-read that few know who they are. I doubt they are major influences anymore today. Richard Dawkins, on the other hand, is at the center of controversy over atheism and theism. Using him as a reference implies you support his position in the controversy and this will alienate those readers from you who disagree with him.

Instead of Dawkins, suppose you cited Jesus and something about "letting the little children come to him" to link him to the idea of "family". This certainly is known in our culture independently of Siduri. Jesus has been an inspiration to millions, perhaps billions. However, if you did that you would alienate readers who are hostile to Christianity.

If you want to use Dawkins, you would also need to reference some well known religious authority to blunt any sense that you are siding with him.

Ultimately, do you see what's happening? Because of your reference to Dawkins, we (you and I) are no longer discussing Siduri. If I were you, I would stick to citing people who have actually studied Gilgamesh. Give these people some credit, some visibility. Forget Dawkins, and for that matter, Carnegie and Aristippus as well. They don't need to be referenced, or shall we say marketed, in this context.

ProfessorPeter
04-05-2013, 10:57 AM
Hi Peter,
I love that you brought up the Gilgamesh Epic. Welcome to the forum, I hope you stick around. :)

Siduri is thought by some to be the model of Circe in Homer's Odyssey. Both are divine and help direct the hero. Like Circe, Siduri lives by the sea away from civilisation, and there are some other similarities, too.
The goddesses Ishtar and Ninsun are also echoed by Homer, among others.

A good study on this is Martin West's The East Face of Helicon: West Asiatic Elements in Greek Poetry and Myth. (Oxford 1997)

As far as Shamhat. The noble prostitute, portrayed as a maternal and wise woman, has almost become cliche. You can see models of this character everywhere, from Homer and Virgil to Dostoevsky.

Thank you so much for this information. I will look into these references once I have some free time.

Best wishes,
Peter

ProfessorPeter
04-05-2013, 10:58 AM
Wow! Many, many thanks, Professor!

You're very welcome.

Best wishes,
Peter

ProfessorPeter
04-05-2013, 11:01 AM
I like the Norton Critical Edition. It has all the different versions, and also anaylasis, side notes, and essays.

Yes, I agree, this is the more accurate and informative version. My version is more of an "easy reading" version for the layman.

Best wishes,
Peter

ProfessorPeter
04-05-2013, 11:12 AM
I don't know much about Dale Carnegie nor Aristippus of Cyrene. Perhaps they are now so un-read that few know who they are. I doubt they are major influences anymore today. Richard Dawkins, on the other hand, is at the center of controversy over atheism and theism. Using him as a reference implies you support his position in the controversy and this will alienate those readers from you who disagree with him.

Instead of Dawkins, suppose you cited Jesus and something about "letting the little children come to him" to link him to the idea of "family". This certainly is known in our culture independently of Siduri. Jesus has been an inspiration to millions, perhaps billions. However, if you did that you would alienate readers who are hostile to Christianity.

If you want to use Dawkins, you would also need to reference some well known religious authority to blunt any sense that you are siding with him.

Ultimately, do you see what's happening? Because of your reference to Dawkins, we (you and I) are no longer discussing Siduri. If I were you, I would stick to citing people who have actually studied Gilgamesh. Give these people some credit, some visibility. Forget Dawkins, and for that matter, Carnegie and Aristippus as well. They don't need to be referenced, or shall we say marketed, in this context.

Actually, part of the reason I mention Dawkins is indeed because I support his positions, especially on genetic inheritance, family and the purpose of life (being procreative). No other inspirational person has so explicitly stated this concept. To my knowledge no Gilgamesh scholar has analyzed and discussed these concepts in depth.

Best wishes,
Peter

osho
04-05-2013, 11:27 AM
I have started a similar thread. In fact if we preclude ancient literature we are nowhere. Even today we are not stopping quoting, making inferences to Plato, Aristotle. Shakespeare has not been obsolete. In fact what we are today has their roots in the ancients and imagine where will we stand if we have not read Shakespeare, Milton, Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Dickens and the like. We are writing, reading jumbles of books today but all we tirelessly praising are those few ancient writers.

YesNo
04-05-2013, 07:19 PM
Actually, part of the reason I mention Dawkins is indeed because I support his positions, especially on genetic inheritance, family and the purpose of life (being procreative). No other inspirational person has so explicitly stated this concept. To my knowledge no Gilgamesh scholar has analyzed and discussed these concepts in depth.


I'm reading Stephen Mitchell's translation now because your thread got me interested.

I assumed you did support Dawkins views. For what it's worth, I don't support his views nor do I consider him "inspirational" in the least.

Let's get back to Gilgamesh. What Gilgamesh scholars do you rely on? I would be more interested in knowing about them.

Eiseabhal
04-29-2013, 06:10 PM
I agree in a general rather than specific way that ancient literature is interesting but some is for me more interesting than others. Dawkins does not interest or inspire me. I do not agree that we are ruled by biological imperatives - very very important and not fully rational though these are. I find The Book of Job very inspirational and it creates an argument in me whenever I read it. I find certain other old texts (what we have of them) fascinating and barbarous in equal measure and while I generally believe that human beings have always been human beings, human societies have not always remained the same (pretty obviously!) so there is a limit to the guidance to be had from the live for today and ones family philosophy. It's not wrong just not enough. Good enough for the cave and the tavern not good enough for the village and the modern state.