the perfect character

[cacian]

does a perfect character makes for a perfect book?

[hannah_arendt]

I don`t think that perfect characters exist.

[cacian]

Hi Hannah really? In your writing do you have no perfect characters?

[PeterL]

I don`t think that perfect characters exist.

What about you?

[hannah_arendt]

Hi Hannah really? In your writing do you have no perfect characters?

I don`t believe in perfectiveness. I don`t believe that I could write anything perfect.

[cacian]

I don`t believe in perfectiveness. I don`t believe that I could write anything perfect.

why not?
Perfect could mean all sorts right.
Someone who is always present/there for you is perfect. I am not saying one is not without nuances for we all carry our moments of intolerances . However this does not mean we do not know how to gesture towards being perfect. I find it easier to be then not. :)

[cacian]

What about you?

Hi Peter. How do you mean by this question?

[PeterL]

Hi Peter. How do you mean by this question?

Exactly as I wrote it.

[PeterL]

If you were asking about characters that do what the author intends, then they certainly help to move a story along. But the characters have to fit the situation, and that may not be perfect. Well characterized characters are one thing, and characters that are seriously flawed can be even more useful than perfect characters, consider what Nabokov did with seriously flawed characters.

[hannah_arendt]

Now I am still working on my novel and I want to make my characters be more complicated. I hope that I won`t get lost in this world I am creating now:)

[cacian]

Now I am still working on my novel and I want to make my characters be more complicated. I hope that I won`t get lost in this world I am creating now:)

How do you work on complicated characters?

[hannah_arendt]

When you think that you can predicate what is going to happen, I introduce a plot which changed everything. I want to show that everybody has as many good sides as bad ones.

[cacian]

When you think that you can predicate what is going to happen, I introduce a plot which changed everything. I want to show that everybody has as many good sides as bad ones.

Hi hannah this sounds interesting. Do you have a concrete example? :)

[hannah_arendt]

I can`t tell you all the story. Probably I`ll have to translate it into English.

So, There si a hunter called Soturi ('hunter' in Finnish) who is a man without past. Then he meet a young woman, Glan. however their meeting isn`t accidental. The reason of it is Piru ('devil' in Finnish) who is Glan`s father.

[PeterL]

If the characters are good, then they will carry the story, and they may carry it other than where you expected.

[Steven Hunley]

If the characters are good, then they will carry the story, and they may carry it other than where you expected.


The perfect character may be good or bad or ugly, it doesn't matter. The perfect character is one that suits the author's purposes.

[hannah_arendt]

If the characters are good, then they will carry the story, and they may carry it other than where you expected.

Agreed. However sometimes the story goes in a different, unexpected way.

[cacian]

The perfect character may be good or bad or ugly, it doesn't matter. The perfect character is one that suits the author's purposes.

That is true. The other argument would be that what suits you does not always suit the reader and that if perfectly alright for one cannot help it.
With a ''perfect'' character if we adhered to the common denominator of the word ''perfect'' the way all understand it then there should be the common ground. The even level between the writer and the reader which also should be encouraged.
The reason I am saying this is because I think it important to write the easy/the obvious that we all know as well the complex which makes us different from one another. This means that a writer can be sure to attract all readers to a level of commonness a same ground as well as take them to a different level where some may agree and other disagree.

[cacian]

Agreed. However sometimes the story goes in a different, unexpected way.

Unexpected? Is that the same as saying you are not in control of the story?

[osho]

The perfect character we could choose is imperfect, unideal, extraordinarily ordinary, worldly and unusually usually. The ones we may bump into in every step we take forward or backward. He or she comes from our own blokes, maybe our next-door guys or girls and let us not search them where they cannot exist and let us not look for them in our classics or mythical stories. They are not political leaders or they do not have super-manliness or someone with heroic predilections.

[PeterL]

Agreed. However sometimes the story goes in a different, unexpected way.

A character did that to me last Fall. She insisted that I write the story from her point of view, so I did. I haven't sold the story, but it is interesting and different.

[PeterL]

Unexpected? Is that the same as saying you are not in control of the story?

Really good characters have their own lives. Yes, they are derived from the authors knowledge and experience, but those things sometimes wander off in directions that were not expected.

[hannah_arendt]

Really good characters have their own lives. Yes, they are derived from the authors knowledge and experience, but those things sometimes wander off in directions that were not expected.

Peter, you are reading exactly my thoughts:)

[PeterL]

Peter, you are reading exactly my thoughts:)

Your mind is easier to read thaan are some characters' minds. ;)

[Steven Hunley]

I think you both have a very important point here. When you really know your character inside-out, it's easy to say what they will do, or how they'll react to a particular situation you're arranged for them. That's good, but there's another level of characterization. You know them so well, that when a new situation occurs, maybe a plot twist, you understand immediately how they will act then.

That's the character taking on a life of his-her own.

I noticed this when I was doing what I call the 'voice". Friends and I were kidding each other, and talking like salty pirates. If you speak English you 'English accent' your Americanski, add a few 'begars' and 'ahoys' and a few 'shiver me timbers'. After a while a funny thing happens.

From out of nowhere you start using better nautical phrases, and sound more cut-throaty at the same time. The character takes over and leads you to more distant vistas.

[PeterL]

I think you both have a very important point here. When you really know your character inside-out, it's easy to say what they will do, or how they'll react to a particular situation you're arranged for them. That's good, but there's another level of characterization. You know them so well, that when a new situation occurs, maybe a plot twist, you understand immediately how they will act then.

That's the character taking on a life of his-her own.

I noticed this when I was doing what I call the 'voice". Friends and I were kidding each other, and talking like salty pirates. If you speak English you 'English accent' your Americanski, add a few 'begars' and 'ahoys' and a few 'shiver me timbers'. After a while a funny thing happens.

From out of nowhere you start using better nautical phrases, and sound more cut-throaty at the same time. The character takes over and leads you to more distant vistas.

I wouldn't put it that way, but I don't really disagree. Some characters tell what they they are, rather than letting the author tell them how to act. You proabably have read of authors who finish stories to find out how it ends. The story, including the characters, has a logic and sequence that may not be what the author intended. It probably is like your pirate, but it can turn on and off when one is writng or not. Part of it is a matter of knowing how the character thinks, and the rest develops from that.

[Jugon Seta]

You don't need a perfect character to have a perfect story, what you need is a perfect plot. Just always think of Quasimodo from The Hunch Back of Notre Dame.

[hannah_arendt]

There many cases when the characters live their own life. the writers creates the but, as it comes with the children, then they seem to be independent. After putting the last full stop the work starts to live in an independent way.

[cacian]

You don't need a perfect character to have a perfect story, what you need is a perfect plot. Just always think of Quasimodo from The Hunch Back of Notre Dame.

Hi Jugon what do you mean about the Hunch Back?

[hillwalker]

Hi Jugon what do you mean about the Hunch Back?

Victor Hugo's 'Notre-Dame de Paris'? Ring any bells?

H

[PeterL]

You don't need a perfect character to have a perfect story, what you need is a perfect plot. Just always think of Quasimodo from The Hunchback of Notre Dame.

I think that it would be safe to say that Quasimodo was perfect for that plot. Robin Hood would not have been appropriate.

[PeterL]

There many cases when the characters live their own life. the writers creates the but, as it comes with the children, then they seem to be independent. After putting the last full stop the work starts to live in an independent way.

And we can go back later and tell more of their stories, which is why many authors use the same characters in several, or even many, stories.

[hannah_arendt]

And we can go back later and tell more of their stories, which is why many authors use the same characters in several, or even many, stories.

I have been thinking about writing more than one book but not with the same characters. But don`t worry, it won`t have more than 3 parts:)

[cacian]

Victor Hugo's 'Notre-Dame de Paris'? Ring any bells?

H

Yes there are definitely bells in Notre Dame. Victor Hugo I know. You misunderstood my question.

[cacian]

I have been thinking about writing more than one book but not with the same characters. But don`t worry, it won`t have more than 3 parts:)

which brings me to this:
could a story ever be nonending and its characters immortal?

[PeterL]

I have been thinking about writing more than one book but not with the same characters. But don`t worry, it won`t have more than 3 parts:)

If you just use the same characters, then it doesn't make any difference how many books you will write. Detective novels are especially strong on reusing the characters as much as they can.

[hannah_arendt]

If you just use the same characters, then it doesn't make any difference how many books you will write. Detective novels are especially strong on reusing the characters as much as they can.

I don`t plan using the same characters. In part II I am going to show one of the characters story. He is very important but in part I we don`t know much about him.

[hannah_arendt]

which brings me to this:
could a story ever be nonending and its characters immortal?

It depends on the point of view. If you follow for example Eco, it is has no end. You, as a writer, stop to take part in it, but the story starts being independent.

[Shaman_Raman]

Victor Hugo's 'Notre-Dame de Paris'? Ring any bells?

H

Nice pun, haha.

[PeterL]

I don`t plan using the same characters. In part II I am going to show one of the characters story. He is very important but in part I we don`t know much about him.

That's an interesting idea. You could tell the same thing from several different points of view; it might be worth trying.

[hillwalker]

Nice pun, haha.

Well done, my friend. Give that man a cigar - I'm glad someone spotted it.

H

[Shaman_Raman]

:banana: I wasn't going to call it out at first, but I thought it deserved some justice...

"Yes there are definitely bells in Notre Dame."

...wtf??

[hannah_arendt]

That's an interesting idea. You could tell the same thing from several different points of view; it might be worth trying.

I want to focus there on the Hunter who has quite interesting history to tell.

[cacian]

I want to focus there on the Hunter who has quite interesting history to tell.

What story has he to tell hannah if it is Ok to ask?

[cacian]

:banana: I wasn't going to call it out at first, but I thought it deserved some justice...

"Yes there are definitely bells in Notre Dame."

...wtf??
Notre Dame do you know it?

[hannah_arendt]

What story has he to tell hannah if it is Ok to ask?

I cannot reveal all:) Soturi is a hunter who lives with a protagonist called Glan in a settlemetn Myrddin. However she doesn`t know his future. I think I`ve mentioned about this story in one of my earlier posts. In the middle of the story he is shown as a villain a little bit but thanks to part II you may him know much better. I can also add that Soturi was created by a "sorcer" Piru.

[cacian]

I cannot reveal all:) Soturi is a hunter who lives with a protagonist called Glan in a settlemetn Myrddin. However she doesn`t know his future. I think I`ve mentioned about this story in one of my earlier posts. In the middle of the story he is shown as a villain a little bit but thanks to part II you may him know much better. I can also add that Soturi was created by a "sorcer" Piru.

I am liking the sound of this story already :)
Soturi is a significant name and so is Piru I am guessing. Do they mean something in Polish?

[Delta40]

They might mean something in Finnish...

Good grief. Nurse more oxycontin please...:troll:

[PeterL]

I want to focus there on the Hunter who has quite interesting history to tell.

I understand. Sometimes it turns out that one character is actually more interesting than the story he appears in.

[hannah_arendt]

They might mean something in Finnish...

Good grief. Nurse more oxycontin please...:troll:

They mean something in Finnish:)

[hannah_arendt]

I understand. Sometimes it turns out that one character is actually more interesting than the story he appears in.

At the very beginning, it was completely different story as you know already:) With the time passing, it seems to be growing.

[Delta40]

At the very beginning, it was completely different story as you know already:) With the time passing, it seems to be growing.

That makes sense to me. As your character develops, the story has greater potential. I seldom know the ending of my own stories.

[PeterL]

They might mean something in Finnish...

Good grief. Nurse more oxycontin please...:troll:

That was Finnish, not Trollish; although Trollish was also a Finno-Urgaric language.

[PeterL]

At the very beginning, it was completely different story as you know already:) With the time passing, it seems to be growing.

Yes, I know. :)

[hannah_arendt]

That makes sense to me. As your character develops, the story has greater potential. I seldom know the ending of my own stories.

What kind of stories do you write?

[cacian]

They mean something in Finnish:)

Hi hannah do they? what do they mean? I am interested in names and their synonyms :)

[hannah_arendt]

Hi hannah do they? what do they mean? I am interested in names and their synonyms :)

I think I`ve mentioned only one Finnish word here, Soturi. It means 'warrior, soldier'.

The name of the city 'Myrddin" comes from Welsh. More about it you can find here: http://medievalscotland.org/problem/names/myrddin.shtml

The name Glân is also Welsh and means 'clean'.

[cacian]

I think I`ve mentioned only one Finnish word here, Soturi. It means 'warrior, soldier'.

The name of the city 'Myrddin" comes from Welsh. More about it you can find here: http://medievalscotland.org/problem/names/myrddin.shtml

The name Glân is also Welsh and means 'clean'.

Hannah thank you for the link. Do you actually speak Finnish and Welsh?

[Delta40]

What kind of stories do you write?

I try my hand at most genres but usually I produce some social commentary in a distorted context - either humorous or sarcastic but I'm endeavouring to snap out of that mold

[hannah_arendt]

Hannah thank you for the link. Do you actually speak Finnish and Welsh?

I have always wanted to learn them both. I spent some time in Finland. My grandpa was told to have welsh ancestors. I took it as a rumour:)

[hannah_arendt]

I try my hand at most genres but usually I produce some social commentary in a distorted context - either humorous or sarcastic but I'm endeavouring to snap out of that mold

I have focused already on fantasy.

[osho]

I want to weave a character out of the web of society and of course as Delta said the distorted sort. There is distortion in our values and man and of course woman too is not what he appears in his best suite. There is a tear or wear inside him. He is suppressing his depression and trying to show what he is not since in a commercial world he has to prove he is a happy and comfortable person or else he cannot sell himself, and he has to sell what he does not have and the buyer buy into his distorted self. Man is a complex creature and his web of problems, sophistications, quirks and eccentricities become the alfa and omega of my character.

[joeyd219]

I know what you're saying; not morally perfect or anything, but perfect in the sense that they are very interesting. If you can create a truly interesting character than the book will be good, IF the story is also interesting. If the perfect character isn't complemented by the story, then he won't hold the reader's interest.