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manuscript
03-19-2013, 05:54 AM
right now i am reading Samuel Richardson's "Clarissa" and i am greatly enjoying it! i am at page 850/1500. i fully appreciate that it may be of limited value to comment on a novel that i have not actually finished, but here are just a couple of thoughts i have had on reading it so far, and i hope they will be interesting anyway.

i decided to read this book because it was mentioned several times by my teachers when i was studying for my degree as a significant work of literature in english. i thought that if a book was mentioned so many times it must be worthwhile. it has been very difficult to read at times as i find myself becoming so emotional about the content, but it has not disappointed me.

this book interests me in many ways and here are some of them. it interests me that an english man living in the 1740s cared so much about rape that he decided to write what is still probably the longest novel composed in english about it; the length of the novel is a real statement about the importance of its subject. the technical mastery of english language displayed in its composition is mesmerising and it seems to me that Richardson is very gifted in using language to realise his characters. i love the characters Clarissa and Anna, and i hate Lovelace! i am fascinated by the pace of the novel and it seems that despite its length, a fresh insight into the human mind is offered on almost every page - the many ways we lie to ourselves and twist perspectives on things in order to get what we want, or what constitutes a "good" person and why and how we can decide to be "good" and why that is meaningful.

Austen, although she was a reader and admirer of Richardson, clearly had aims in her writing that were different from Richardson's (and perhaps, having read "Clarissa", did not wish to embark on an attempt to equal his achievements). but it seems to me that Richardson achieved something with his characters that Austen was not capable of. Clarissa and Lovelace are extremes of human nature, to a point at which they can be said to represent "types", and it seems plain that Richardson wishes for them to be perceived this way. Clarissa is a beautiful, intelligent, morally virtuous, young woman, while Lovelace on the other hand is a very handsome and superficially charming man who is emotionally and physically manipulative and abusive (he might perhaps be seen as a "narcissistic", disordered personality type in our terms). but to me, these characters are not stereotypes, they are real in a way that Austen's characters are not. i feel like Clarissa and Lovelace make George Wickham and even the very beautifully realised Fanny Price look like cardboard cutouts. he really went deep into Lovelace's mind, he didnt shy away from giving this character a sensitive, naturalistic treatment. Richardson knew that he had to make his characters seem real to his readers, or they would dismiss his book as a very cheap product, like a piece of pure sensation fiction. but the subject was so urgent to him, that he went to these extraordinary lengths of writing this very very long and involved and "real" novel, to get people to pay attention.

"Clarissa" has never been out of print. when it was first published it was translated into french and german and consumed voraciously. i have read that by the victorian era, attitudes had changed so that the primary consideration in marriage was popularly considered to be love. it is easy to underestimate the historical impact that this novel has had.

i have been surprised by the attitudes i have encountered in people when i have told them i am reading "Clarissa". overwhelmingly, the general response has been something like "we cannot pretend that this novel is still relevant to a current audience, outside academia". i find it bizarre that there seems to be an ingrained assumption that the novel is not relevant. partly because, the idea of relevance suggests that the novel can have nothing to say to us that we can find useful, and this just does not make any sense to me, for the reasons i have explained. but also, the normal approach that people take to reading a work of literature does not require a text to justify its relevance to them. instead, it asks impartially "what varieties of meaning are constructed in this work, and how?" then, it discusses the meanings, their complexity and interdependence, the efficacy with which they are communicated, and THEN, possibly, ideas about their application. that is just not the case here. there is no honest examination of content; just an implicit assumption of irrelevance. i even read an essay by Susan Sontag on erotica in which she dismisses Clarissa as a woman who is afraid of exploring her sexuality. i am sorry to say that this scholar appears to be only pretending to have read "Clarissa", or how could she make such a totally ridiculous judgment on it, that is so blatantly irrelevant to any of the actual content of the text?

when people say that "Clarissa" is no longer relevant, i think what they mean, is that people dont want to read it, or they themselves have chosen not to read it. this is not the same thing as relevance. it is very naive to suppose that human beings have gone through fundamental change in 265 years. we havent, we are still the same. young women are still pressured into sex. people continue to lie to each other. despite all of this we still try to be good and do the right thing even when our circumstances seem futile.

has anyone else enjoyed Clarissa as much as i have been? i hope so!!

manuscript
03-19-2013, 06:14 AM
correction! i just read on the internets that it is probably the 3rd longest. thanks

Lykren
03-19-2013, 10:11 AM
Great post! I haven't read Clarissa, but I sure want to now. Especially since you say Richardson is better than Austen! Quite a claim.

OrphanPip
03-19-2013, 04:00 PM
I think Austen's achievement is more mature, Austen doesn't use extremes partly, I think, because she doesn't believe in extremes. It takes great skill to produce the sense of interiority Austen does in relatively few pages.

That being said, Richardson is a titan of the eighteenth century who arguably stands at the base of every late 18th to early 19th century European novel. He was the first international hit of the modern print era who was being actively read and translated in Germany almost as soon as his novels were out in England. Voltaire and Goethe are the only other authors who rival him when it comes to reach during the period. Pamela is also widely regarded as a watershed novel in English.

As to the progressive nature of the novel, well it is certainly coming out of Richardson Whig, middle-class protestant values. He is speaking for the bourgeois middle class right at the cusp of their rise to the top of cultural influence. The novel is skeptical of class privilege and the central point of the work, and of Richardson's oeuvre in general, is that virtue comes from a natural grace that has nothing to do with aristocratic privilege, education, or wealth (this is a simplification). Academics who are really into Clarissa have talked about the novel's deep engagement with complex emerging liberal philosophies like those of Kant (who was a huge Clarissa fan).

manuscript
03-19-2013, 10:37 PM
thank you Lykren!

thanks OrphanPip.

maybe i shouldnt have compared Richardson to Austen. i have enjoyed reading Austen a lot and i have read all of her novels but not at an academic level and i think Emma and Northanger are the only ones i have read more than once. her novels are definitely very elegant in the sense that she expresses complex and sophisticated ideas completely in a very concise way. i thought Persuasion particularly is a transcendent masterpiece.

whether she believes in extremes is an interesting question. sometimes i thought her characters were extreme in a sense different from Richardson's. Elinor Dashwood seems to have no human foibles of character and to make no errors in anything she does. i really loved Fanny Price but i found it difficult to identify with her because as a person i am so inferior to her. by contemporary standards i think i am a decent sort, but if Austen met me, she would not want anything to do with me. she seems to have a very particular but also sometimes very black-and-white standard of judging the minutiae of personal character. this could be to do with christian values, i am not sure.

im sure this is not what you are getting at, but just as a matter of interest, if Austen doesnt address extremes of humankind in her writing because she doesnt believe in them, i dont think that is necessarily a sign of literary maturity. Richardson is interested in why someone would perpetrate the act of rape, and what kind of person would do that. rape is an extreme of human behaviour, but also a cruel reality. i just dont think Austen saw it as something she was interested as addressing in her writing, she had other goals.

thank you for teaching me about class privilege and i had not considered that aspect properly. the matter of the value of human goodness seems to me to be a central concern of the work. in reading Clarissa i am also interested by the depth with which Richardson explores human motivation. i enjoy reading the careful detail about the shades of Lovelace's mind and how he convinces himself that he is entitled to rape Clarissa and that she deserves to be raped. i think that this must have been another central concern of Richardson's in this composition due to the lengths to which he goes in depicting these movements of Lovelace's justifications and rationalisations for what he is doing. Richardson's dedication to this makes Lovelace a fully realised personality rather than just a type. independently of other concerns he seems simply very interested in rape as a human phenomenon and why it happens. even being the most virtuous and good human being, as a victim of it, seems to be no defense against it. i think his explorations of these aspects of human abuses have held up against time remarkably well.

Regards

qimissung
03-19-2013, 11:46 PM
This does sound really good. I know we, as humans, are driven to compare, but I don't think it's really necessary in this case. These two writers have staked out different territories and they are both quite good at what they have chosen to write about and examine. Richardson chose a big and probably somewhat controversial topic to explore, while Austen chose to write about the more ordinary, yet fraught, lives of young women who were of marriageable age. Finding a husband often dictated the quality of life they were going to have, so it wasn't unimportant, although we, with our more expanded choices could see it that way.

I've considered reading Clarissa before, and I'll consider it again. I just have a stack of things to read already, but in light of recent events this just still seems so very relevant. I think people who did not consider it relevant really did not know much about the novel and certainly hadn't bothered to try to read it. You did an excellent job of summarizing it though. Maybe you'd consider putting this in the book review section also?

Lykren
03-20-2013, 12:53 AM
The idea that by investigating the extremes of human actions you plumb the depths of our nature better than you could otherwise is one I've heard before, particularly in reference to Dostoevsky. However it doesn't seem like a very valid point to me, especially not in contrast to the concept that our everyday decisions and misfortunes are the ones that affect us most. After all, they are what we know best, so it seems as though they would be more conducive to great writing.

I also believe that 'extreme' actions are really only single events at the end of a long train of small decisions; in other words, that they represent the accumulation of a whole group of feelings and considerations which might be deemed insubstantial on their own. Why do we murder, or rape? Because we feel desparate, I would say. Why do we feel desparate? Well, for a whole host of reasons. And those reasons might seem petty and trivial when detached from their consequences.

Keep in mind that I'm not trying to critique Richardson - I haven't read him. These are just my thoughts that were aroused when I read some of your commentary on Richardson.

manuscript
03-20-2013, 05:19 AM
thanks qimissung, thank you for your kind remark on what i wrote, if i end up writing all of my thoughts down after i finish the whole thing, i will post what i write to the reviews section. i think that this book is not for everyone, and i would not insist on it being mandatory reading for anyone, but i think it has a great deal of literary merit, it is a rich and complex work of art, and i think it is unfairly dismissed a lot of the time with no attention to the reality of what it is.

Lykren, i agree with you completely, i admit that i was wrong if i wrote that examining extremes is a better way of getting to truths. it seems to me now when i think about it properly that no part of human nature or action is intrinsically any more worthy of artistic treatment than any other, it just depends on what the particular artist wants to achieve, and how successfully these aims are achieved. in this case, it is just my personal opinion that Richardson achieved greatness in his understanding of his subject matter, although we all hope and wish it should not be a subject of everyday concern. i enjoyed reading what you wrote here about the accumulation of small decisions. one of the things that interests me most in "Clarissa", is the chain of small decisions and thoughts that Lovelace describes, all of them everyday very small type shades of compromise each of us make in our everyday lives, that allow him to dehumanise and demonise Clarissa, so that the way he treats her seems fair to him. i am not crazy about the idea tied up in traditional mainstream western spirituality that one small moral compromise necessarily leads to another more serious compromise, but in this case, it is really interesting to me. i hope that by writing this now i am not making inappropriate use of what you were saying.

i should have considered my remark about characterisation a little more carefully. all i meant to say in comparing Austen to Richardson is that i think Richardson's characterisation is superior. as OrphanPip already kind of suggested (and i may have responded quite unfairly for which i apologise as this book makes me emotional!) this may be due to the fact that Richardson gave himself a lot more words in which to describe his characters. i guess this is just a personal preference. i personally find his characters to be more convincing than Austen's, i believe in them in a way that i do not believe in Austen's. but i should really not have made the comparison at all, as it is in actuality, completely irrelevant. i see on more careful consideration that there is a genius to Austen's characterisation that is qualitatively different from that of Richardson's.

cheers

Heteronym
03-25-2013, 06:07 PM
I recently discovered Rousseau and William Blake were great fans of this novel.

It's on my list, and after reading War and Peace the length doesn't intimidate me so much, but I still fear it may be a stuffy, dull novel.

Charles Darnay
03-26-2013, 08:10 PM
I have written this elsewhere - but I am a big promoter of Clarissa and will spam Clarissa threads with this thought: the last half of the book is amongst the best material I have read. Hardly stuffy and dull. Now, of course this does leave the first 750 pages - and I admit that there is a bit of a lag in the middle of that section, in which stuffy and dull become applicable. This does not, however, last too long.

OrphanPip
03-26-2013, 10:40 PM
I have written this elsewhere - but I am a big promoter of Clarissa and will spam Clarissa threads with this thought: the last half of the book is amongst the best material I have read. Hardly stuffy and dull. Now, of course this does leave the first 750 pages - and I admit that there is a bit of a lag in the middle of that section, in which stuffy and dull become applicable. This does not, however, last too long.

Pamela has a similar issue where the final 1/3 of the novel becomes Richardson's guide to being the perfect Georgian housewife.

ashulman
03-27-2013, 09:30 AM
I'm about 200 pages into it and put it down for a while with every intention of returning. I was admiring it as well.

Charles Darnay
03-27-2013, 08:32 PM
Pamela has a similar issue where the final 1/3 of the novel becomes Richardson's guide to being the perfect Georgian housewife.

As much as I love Clarissa, I could not take Pamela seriously (yes, I know it is meant to be a comedy in the loose sense.) After the part with the cows, I lost all faith in that book.