Is religion the new monarchy?

[cacian]

It seems if religon pollutes the planet then it must have a target.
Is it hitting though? achievement is by design religion by proof and it has not got one.
So is religion divisive in order to sit on a throne and dictate to others in the name of the LORD?
His Lordhsip may be wherever and if he is I cannot see one myself.
Would I shake the hand? or is it kissing that it requires it? for obedience and kneeling is what is implied.
I think I pass on either. My hand is busy writing stuff to accumulate enough proof to ensure religion has not got any.

[hannah_arendt]

I think that everything should be moderate. We should separete belief from organisation. For example, The Church doesn`t have much in common with the religion and the new Pope won`t change it. Organisation is "a child" of people and as a result is full of mistakes. It is easier to believe in something.

[cacian]

I think that everything should be moderate. We should separete belief from organisation. For example, The Church doesn`t have much in common with the religion and the new Pope won`t change it. Organisation is "a child" of people and as a result is full of mistakes. It is easier to believe in something.

The pope is the puppet taht sits on the chair for others to poke.
I am sure he comes with a sum lump of money that people has to work in order to keep up with the demand. Such pagan demenism is a trash an error and must be rectified.
I may no pay for it.
Religion does not feed me but takes away from me. What do I want it?
I totally agree that we must separate belief from organisation. It is an atrocity. The pope is powerless is just the facade that sits and waves and keep up with the latin. That is his task. His work. He is not holly. He is another human being just like any other. I pity him for he has a lot of work to do. At his age shoud be sitting in some remote spots sipping grappa. That is what it is made for.

[hannah_arendt]

The pope is the puppet taht sits on the chair for others to poke.
I am sure he comes with a sum lump of money that people has to work in order to keep up with the demand. Such pagan demenism is a trash an error and must be rectified.
I may no pay for it.
Religion does not feed me but takes away from me. What do I want it?

I have been brought up as a catholic, all my family is catholic but I don`t feel part of this group. I think we don`t have any chance to change the whole tradition of Vatican. It is rooted to deeply and there is very little people who really believe . In the country where I live, going to the church is only a ritual, completely misunderstood by the people.

[stlukesguild]

Is religion the new monarchy?

Not religion but rather the religious institutions and the clergy were a monarchy far more powerful than any secular monarchy in Europe throughout much of the middle ages. Power eventually shifted to the secular monarchy (kings and emperors) and then, in theory, to the masses... although it would seem more accurate to suggest that it is the very wealthy... including the corporations... who are the current monarchies.

It seems if religon pollutes the planet then it must have a target.

And if you feel free to portray the beliefs of others as "pollution" what is your target?

So is religion divisive in order to sit on a throne and dictate to others in the name of the LORD?
His Lordhsip may be wherever and if he is I cannot see one myself.

Obviously we are all free, unlike the past, to decide whether to follow the teachings or beliefs of a given religion or church.

The pope is the puppet that sits on the chair for others to poke.

How is the Pope a "puppet" any more or less so than any other head of a large institution or state?

I am sure he comes with a sum lump of money that people has to work in order to keep up with the demand. Such pagan demenism is a trash an error and must be rectified.

I am always struck by the manner in which so many who pride themselves on their "liberal" thinking... who would never begin to make sweeping judgments based upon race, or nationality, or gender, or gender preference... fail to recognize the hypocrisy in their often virulent attacks upon Christianity or the Church. It seems to me that if you do not believe or support the Catholic Church, you have the complete freedom to ignore their teachings and are not required to offer any financial support. Others, obviously, believe differently. You deem them and their thinking as a "pagan demon-ism", "trash", and an "error that must be rectified." How is your thinking any different from that of those faithful of any religion who believe that anyone who believes differently from themselves is guilty of heresy... "pagan demon-ism" whose errors MUST be rectified... by force, if necessary?

Religion does not feed me but takes away from me.

In what way? I am not Islamic or Hindu or Buddhist. I recognize that great atrocities have been committed in the name of all three of these religions. Great atrocities have been committed in the name of almost every religion, every nation, every institution, every idea. Anywhere humanity and power is involved, there will be those who will abuse their power for personal gain... or personal hatreds. In spite of this Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism... and nearly every other religion have also given me much is terms of art and literature and music of the most profound beauty.

The pope is powerless is just the facade that sits and waves and keep up with the Latin.

How, again, is he any more or less powerful than any other head of state or large institution. The Soviets famously underestimated the power of the Catholic Church which was one of the lynch-pins behind the collapse of Communist rule in Poland... and the whole of the East Bloc.

That is his task. His work. He is not holly.

http://www.flowersociety.org/images/holly-berry.jpg

:confused:

He is another human being just like any other. I pity him for he has a lot of work to do. At his age should be sitting in some remote spots sipping grappa. That is what it is made for.

That seems rather pretentious on your part... as does most of your post. Would you presume to decide what a given man or woman can or cannot (or should or should not) do at a given age? How many company CEOs, heads of state, professors, etc... continue to labor in the field that they love well past their 70s? How many artists, composers, writers, and film-makers achieved some of their greatest works at an age when you would have them sent away to some remote spot sipping grappa?

[Delta40]

^ lol. A cacian question. Is holly the same as mistletoe?

[cafolini]

The churches as world powers evaporated. Take The Vatican, for example. People know very little about the place. Most think of it as a plaza with a luxurious chapel. There is a video you can watch, Inside The Vatican, which will provide a lot more depth and will show the institutions and the treasures it keeps. However, most of the treasures are religious themes, having little to do with the vast majority of the treasures of today's world. Yet they have immense historical value. Today The Vatican is a chunk of history and a very good one among the many.

[maxphisher]

New, no. Supreme, no. Power and control will always be the the ruling ideology that defines what we read and how we act. Whether it is through religion, money, violence/war, this has always been the case and always will be until people realize how their societies are defined by the ideologies that are put into place by those who hold power. It's the basic tenet of modern Marxist theory. . . to return to your previous thread on "rationalization."

[cafolini]

New, no. Supreme, no. Power and control will always be the the ruling ideology that defines what we read and how we act. Whether it is through religion, money, violence/war, this has always been the case and always will be until people realize how their societies are defined by the ideologies that are put into place by those who hold power. It's the basic tenet of modern Marxist theory. . . to return to your previous thread on "rationalization."

If what you mean by "modern" is "contemporary," Marxist theory is a goner into the aunspices of the museum assisted by the postmodern. No matter how the idiotic critics piggyback on the merits of the postmodern, they will never be able to make it a dead ism.

[cacian]

The churches as world powers evaporated. Take The Vatican, for example. People know very little about the place. Most think of it as a plaza with a luxurious chapel. There is a video you can watch, Inside The Vatican, which will provide a lot more depth and will show the institutions and the treasures it keeps. However, most of the treasures are religious themes, having little to do with the vast majority of the treasures of today's world. Yet they have immense historical value. Today The Vatican is a chunk of history and a very good one among the many.
''Vatican is a chunk of history and a very good one''.
How does it do good when it is already showered in gold and wealth?the amount of treasure/money they have in one single place is bigger the world entire resources and that is only speaking hypothetically.
Name one thing good that the vatican does to make one person feel valuable? let forget the world for a minute? after all the world only looks up to it with total blunder.
From where what I have seen so far it is rather euphoric then common sense.

[stlukesguild]

Name one thing good that the vatican does to make one person feel valuable?

It opens this to public view:

http://www.vatican.va/various/cappelle/sistina_vr/index.html

[cacian]

Name one thing good that the vatican does to make one person feel valuable?

It opens this to public view:

http://www.vatican.va/various/cappelle/sistina_vr/index.html

wow and that is what I get to look at that and then go home ?could not a museum do that?
Soto recap the vatican owns that and the poor owns nothing just a sheer roof over their heads if nothing some of them live in the gutters.
And this is supposed to make me feel valuable right and a model to society?
Ihave to say this only confirms my intolerance of a religion that relies on looks to charm the believer that heaven is not only an image but also a duty. You get to look what I owe and I get to preach tell you how to do.
Cheers:cheers2: I think i will drink to that....but then hold on a minute isn't that what the priests glug on alcohol whilst they ran the communion for me?
So what do I get to bite into then? oh i know a hard piece of bread and water to wash it down with. I am really made up.
I think i will leave religion to it it does not need me and I won't need it.

[stlukesguild]

wow and that is what I get to look at that and then go home ?could not a museum do that?

Perhaps. But then again it would be quite difficult to move the Sistine frescoes into a museum... and you would have to confront the fact that they are owned by the Vatican.

Soto recap the vatican owns that and the poor owns nothing just a sheer roof over their heads if nothing some of them live in the gutters.

That's a pathetic argument. You are sitting in a home in comparative luxury spending your "free time" posting inane questions on the internet through a computer that likely cost more than many in the "third world" earn in an entire year. I suspect that the Catholic Church on any given day gives more to charity and makes more efforts to help the poor than you have in your entire lifetime. Were the Catholic Church to sell off the whole of their belongings, how far would this go to rectifying poverty in the world as a whole... and for how long? Why should they be blamed for the fact that poverty exists any more than any other wealthy institution, nation, or individual?

And this is supposed to make me feel valuable right and a model to society?

Why should any work of art be expected to stand as a model for society?

I have to say this only confirms my intolerance of a religion that relies on looks to charm the believer that heaven is not only an image but also a duty. You get to look what I owe and I get to preach tell you how to do.

Somehow I think you completely miss the point. But I wouldn't expect otherwise. I feel profoundly sorry for you if all you can see or feel when you look at the Sistine Ceiling...

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_libyan2-1.jpg (http://s1245.beta.photobucket.com/user/StlukesguildOhio/media/libyan2-1.jpg.html)

or a Gothic Cathedral...

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_Chartres_cathedral_zps09bfb4a1.jpg (http://s1245.beta.photobucket.com/user/StlukesguildOhio/media/Chartres_cathedral_zps09bfb4a1.jpg.html)

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_ChartresCathedralWindo-1_zpsefb75c49.jpg (http://s1245.beta.photobucket.com/user/StlukesguildOhio/media/ChartresCathedralWindo-1_zpsefb75c49.jpg.html)

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_chartres-cathedral-choir-screen_zpsfb0ffb5b.jpg (http://s1245.beta.photobucket.com/user/StlukesguildOhio/media/chartres-cathedral-choir-screen_zpsfb0ffb5b.jpg.html)

or an aristocratic portrait:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_wgart_-art-i-ingres-15ingres-1_zps6af27884.jpg (http://s1245.beta.photobucket.com/user/StlukesguildOhio/media/wgart_-art-i-ingres-15ingres-1_zps6af27884.jpg.html)

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/StlukesguildOhio/th_Anthonis_van_Dyck_021-1_zps668ad5e2.jpg (http://s1245.beta.photobucket.com/user/StlukesguildOhio/media/Anthonis_van_Dyck_021-1_zps668ad5e2.jpg.html)

is a sense of anger and petty jealousy as a result of the inherent inequalities that bankrolled the creation of these works. Art and money are uneasy bedfellows and it is a naive fantasy to imagine art not funded by wealth. Of course on might ask, what inequalities have afforded you the luxury to be able to write... if only on the internet.

[cacian]

Wow there is no jealousy from my part LOL i have no feelings towards a fresco Sistine chapel let alone a vatican that runs out pretending to be god when it ain't one.
As I would like to say religion if there should be any should not be about the golden looks as much as gold as I can scuff/eat and let me preach to you while I drown myself in decorative arts that is not my own.
Religion is self fulfiling demonstrative and above open minded with a clear aim in life. I have yet to understand what the actual vatican is about.
What is its purpose?and how does it set a model to me my family and my society. If it is about a congregation or red berets and tunics running the palaces of rome whilst waving a pope me to look at whenever I need to remember god.
then I think to myself what a waste of energy humans and and what a bomb shell on an intellectual attitude that is hoplessly missing.
Where is progress and international design in this secular odd looking and old obeying group of individuals that worship men and lecture others about how to live their lives whilst they live cocoon between murals and frescos?
And then it stops there. There is nothing. Empty.
Enough said.:Yawn::gnorsi:

[stlukesguild]

Wow there is no jealousy from my part LOL i have no feelings towards a fresco Sistine chapel let alone a vatican that runs out pretending to be god when it ain't one.

I don't recall the Vatican ever putting forth the notion that it or the Pope is God. The Pope is simply the leader of the Catholic Church and the head of state of Vatican City. For better or worse the Pope represents the ultimate word on theological and political issues concerning the Catholic Church and the Vatican. This strikes me as far better than Islam which lacks such a clear hierarchy able to check or reign in radical and often violent preaching of various clerics and mullahs.

As I would like to say religion if there should be any should not be about the golden looks as much as gold as I can scuff/eat and let me preach to you while I drown myself in decorative arts that is not my own. Religion is self fulfiling demonstrative and above open minded with a clear aim in life. I have yet to understand what the actual vatican is about.

Again, you hypocritically presume the right to preach to others who do not share your beliefs. I'm not British, and as such I would not presume the right to dictate to the British how they ought to run their government or suggest that they ought to get rid of the ridiculous aristocracy. I'm not Catholic, and so I do not presume to dictate to the Catholics how they ought to elect their Popes or how they ought to run their Church. Certainly, I reserve the right to protest and/or comment upon the British or the Catholics if and when their actions affect me personally or individuals outside of Britain or Catholicism. If I were a member of the Catholic Church I would have the right to make my opinions heard... and ultimately to withhold my support... or even leave if I felt that they no longer represented my beliefs... but why should the Catholic Church care in the least what you or any other non-believer/non-member thinks?

What is its purpose?and how does it set a model to me my family and my society.

Again, if the Vatican and the Pope mean nothing to you, why do you concern yourself with their business?

Where is progress and international design in this secular odd looking and old obeying group of individuals that worship men and lecture others about how to live their lives whilst they live cocoon between murals and frescos?
And then it stops there. There is nothing. Empty.

Again... I am not Catholic... Agnostic at best... but I have met more than a share of Catholic intellectuals: theologians, professors, educators, etc... I'm almost certain that they are living their lives in less of a cocoon than you, yourself.

[Shaman_Raman]

Cacian, why do you call religion the new monarchy, when your argument is against Catholicism? Is Christianity your definition of religion? If not, then maybe discuss how you feel Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Islam, Paganism, Sikhism and Taoism are tyrants above us?

[Shaman_Raman]

To everyone else, my apologies if I just opened a whole new can of worms.

[cafolini]

To everyone else, my apologies if I just opened a whole new can of worms.

I think you just opened a new can of Caciansclerosis.

[cacian]

Cacian, why do you call religion the new monarchy, when your argument is against Catholicism? Is Christianity your definition of religion? If not, then maybe discuss how you feel Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Islam, Paganism, Sikhism and Taoism are tyrants above us?

My argument is not about catholicism. That was just a quota a something to examplify religion and since catholicism is wider and wealthier then the rest then i must oblige and point at it with a compas mind. I think it is the least i can do.
I mean the whole vatican thing is a television occupation. What would media television look like if it did not have the vatican?
Terrorism is what is left for it right? I guess media would shabby and derelict because it will have to put with the rest of the destructive heneous religions that are left out.
The vatican is a compensasion for the media to feel good about itself. And anyway what was that smoke all about? One minute it is dense matt and the next it is coal black. That was rather shakespearian from the outlook. A play on vision. I thought that was well worth a look.
All was needed then was The Tempest to come to play it out loud ;)

[maxphisher]

I'm not quite sure if you're arguing that Marxist theory is "dead" or that post-Modernist theory obscures and combats it. Marxist theory is still very relevant because it is still very noticeable. As for the other possible argument, I would ask if you are perhaps assuming that post-modernist theories, such as deconstruction, are ends rather than means. Critics like Foucault never really intended their theories to serve as definitive "ends"; they were envisioned as tools to engender new approaches to existing criticisms. Likewise, they are equally as unavoidable as many of the theories that prefaced them. Honestly, the only two literary theories that have almost completely faded from common usage might be "old historicism" and new criticism. They are so limited in their scope that they tend to hinder a reading rather than nurture it.

[cafolini]

Probably the last genuine Marxist was young Neruda. Marxism has been gone to the museum for about half a century at least.

[cacian]

Probably the last genuine Marxist was young Neruda. Marxism has been gone to the museum for about half a century at least.

Marxism lives in a museum? how is the show to go about it? aren't all the statues and statuettes destroyed as a result of it?