Is there Truth?

[cacian]

Reality seems to drag the idea that it is linked to truth.
I say there is no truth because there is reality. It is either one or the other.
I am real and so whether I am true or not is up to me.

[osho]

Fine proposition, Cacain, and now from poesy you are leaping to philosophy. And this is progress, evolution. This issue called truth is a central issue all of our ancestors down the civilizations are pivoting and yet there is no clue to it. Reality and truth are unseemly nuances, and they are coats, crusts and few could have delved into deeper and profounder realms. If one is blind light is a false idea and if one is deaf sound does not exist. That the one who speaks for the existence of light or against it is a debatable proposition, and before both of polemics lay vast territories of the unknowns. At a tender age you are veering in this unexplored zone.

Who knows the truth or reality about himself and his environment? Truth is a pathless path as J Krishnamurti had said in his famous discourse. Notwithstanding its unknowingness it is really fascinating to discuss it, think about it.

The very inquiry of you pushes you a few inches closer to truth.

[cacian]

Interesting read you posted osho. Truth is overestimated and it is an exaggeration of reality. It is a synonym of the unknow the ether that we never ever get to cross or see. Such is the truth. But if one must insist of getting a piece of it, then one must. The extreme of wanting what is not wanted is costly.
We humans humiliate thentell the truth we go to the end of our wits to hide from it. We bully we bribe and we lie because the truth is an inch harder then a foot wide of lie. It is not something we feel comfortable with. We hide the truth and as a return of favour the truth hides us. Irony? yes indeed.
What does one expect from one's affirmation of a figment of one's imagination? a piece of a cake? doubt it and so we go chasing it and it shall chase us but it will never gives us it.
So I am done with it. I don't believe truth is. I believe I am and this IS reality.

[cafolini]

Interesting read you posted osho. Truth is overestimated and it is an exaggeration of reality. It is a synonym of the unknow the ether that we never ever get to cross or see. Such is the truth. But if one must insist of getting a piece of it, then one must. The extreme of wanting what is not wanted is costly.
We humans humiliate thentell the truth we go to the end of our wits to hide from it. We bully we bribe and we lie because the truth is an inch harder then a foot wide of lie. It is not something we feel comfortable with. We hide the truth and as a return of favour the truth hides us. Irony? yes indeed.
What does one expect from one's affirmation of a figment of one's imagination? a piece of a cake? doubt it and so we go chasing it and it shall chase us but it will never gives us it.
So I am done with it. I don't believe truth is. I believe I am and this IS reality.

I bow before the princess and the prince.

"All victories breed hate, and that over your superior is foolish or fatal. Superiority is always detested, à fortiori superiority over superiority. Caution can gloss over common advantages; for example, good looks may be cloaked by careless attire. There be some that will grant you precedence in good luck or good temper, but none in good sense, least of all a prince; for good sense is a royal prerogative, any claim to that is a case of lèse majesté. They are princes, and wish to be so in that most princely of qualities. They will allow a man to help them but not to surpass them, and will have any advice tendered them appear like a recollection of something they have forgotten rather than as a guide to something they cannot find. The stars teach us this finesse with happy tact; though they are hischildren and brilliant like him, they never rival the brilliancy of the sun." Balthasar Grazian

[RedHawk]

I think theres is a truth, but in a personal sort of way. Each person has their own perceptions on what is real and what is true. Like in religions, one person may say Christianity while another says Islam. There both true to that person, but a lie to the other. Its like a person seeing a ghost; its real to that person, but unsee-able to the other.

[cafolini]

I think theres is a truth, but in a personal sort of way. Each person has their own perceptions on what is real and what is true. Like in religions, one person may say Christianity while another says Islam. There both true to that person, but a lie to the other. Its like a person seeing a ghost; its real to that person, but unsee-able to the other.

So them, it's not a truth nor the truth. A truth occurs in the statement of what's indisputably happening and nowhere else.

[Shaman_Raman]

Reality seems to drag the idea that it is linked to truth.
I say there is no truth because there is reality. It is either one or the other.
I am real and so whether I am true or not is up to me.

Not a bad discussion...it seems any agreement about truth through religion or philosophy is trying to set a concrete idea of the absolute goodness. So I ask, is what is true Good? Or is what is good True? Which comes first?

[cacian]

Not a bad discussion...it seems any agreement about truth through religion or philosophy is trying to set a concrete idea of the absolute goodness. So I ask, is what is true Good? Or is what is good True? Which comes first?

Well it did occur to me whether religion is the new monarchy. You see it is not about monarchy it is about religion and religion does not like monarchs for the only reason that monarch state they are related to god and religion states that god is only related to Jesus and that he is only a monarch to his kingdom in heaven. What religion sits out to do is to take over the monarch so that we do what it says and god can stay out of it.
It then a monarch is removed like the case of the french revolution then religion moves on to stake its claim over god here on earth.
Monarchy is the enemy of religion because it reminds religion that god not only rules in the heavens but also on earht through his monarchs.
That is the only truth anything else after that isn't.

[hannah_arendt]

It seems to me that the objective truth doesn`t exist.

[osho]

Everything is relative and truth too is relative. Our vision is limited and we deem our visualization to be true and everything is not visualized and our capacity for knowing truth is dimensional. The sun and the earth are two great truths and we cannot visualize or actualize greater truths than these two entities.

When you see a mountain top and you think this is the highest peak and since there are no adjoining peaks ascending higher than that but the moment you summit it another higher mountain is likely to emerge. But the tallness of the mountain too is relative since there are inner summits we have yet to climb. Attitudinal heights are immeasurable by worldly gauges. There are spiritual altitudes and of course the peak the Buddha had escalated is a nuanced truth. We have no measuring rod or standard to scale that height,

[cacian]

It seems to me that the objective truth doesn`t exist.

Hi hannah what is an objective truth? do you mean as oppose to subjective?

[Adolescent09]

This topic is beyond hilarious.

[PeterL]

I think that concept of this thread is interesting, but it lacks definition. What is truth? Without a definition there can be no coherent discussion, because everyone will comment about his own concept of "truth".

Before we can find it for you you will have to tell us what you are looking for.

[Adolescent09]

I think that concept of this thread is interesting, but it lacks definition. What is truth? Without a definition there can be no coherent discussion, because everyone will comment about his own concept of "truth".

Before we can find it for you you will have to tell us what you are looking for.

This, exactly.

[cacian]

I think that concept of this thread is interesting, but it lacks definition. What is truth? Without a definition there can be no coherent discussion, because everyone will comment about his own concept of "truth".

Before we can find it for you you will have to tell us what you are looking for.

Truth is simply as right and wrong. Truth as it correct as oppose to not. Truth as what must you do as oppose to what must you follow. Is truth what you think or what you believe?
A good example of truth is this: Is there truth to existence? and if there is not then why on earth why not?
Clairvoyances are all about ''a truth'' and many believe in them. Is they don't does make them a lie?
If someone tells you to bungee jump and you do it did you do it because you believed in him or is it because you wanted to?

[PeterL]

Truth is simply as right and wrong. Truth as it correct as oppose to not. Truth as what must you do as oppose to what must you follow. Is truth what you think or what you believe?
A good example of truth is this: Is there truth to existence? and if there is not then why on earth why not?
Clairvoyances are all about ''a truth'' and many believe in them. Is they don't does make them a lie?
If someone tells you to bungee jump and you do it did you do it because you believed in him or is it because you wanted to?

So you are asking whether your opinions exist, n'est pas? If that is it, then yes, your own truth exists, but you already knew that.

[Adolescent09]

Truth is simply as right and wrong. Truth as it correct as oppose to not. Truth as what must you do as oppose to what must you follow. Is truth what you think or what you believe?
A good example of truth is this: Is there truth to existence? and if there is not then why on earth why not?
Clairvoyances are all about ''a truth'' and many believe in them. Is they don't does make them a lie?
If someone tells you to bungee jump and you do it did you do it because you believed in him or is it because you wanted to?

I think you are trying too hard to make a word that has a well-known, literal meaning into something abstract.

[hannah_arendt]

Hi hannah what is an objective truth? do you mean as oppose to subjective?

Yes, I do.

[Evan Shaw]

Truth is simply as right and wrong. Truth as it correct as oppose to not. Truth as what must you do as oppose to what must you follow. Is truth what you think or what you believe?
A good example of truth is this: Is there truth to existence? and if there is not then why on earth why not?
Clairvoyances are all about ''a truth'' and many believe in them. Is they don't does make them a lie?
If someone tells you to bungee jump and you do it did you do it because you believed in him or is it because you wanted to?

Are you talking about Goodness or Truth? I sense an ambivalence towards the common proposition that if there is Truth, ethics may come into play. But the Good deals with what is beneficial for the community - whereas Truth deals with the validity of informational threads. There can never be Absolute truth for our limited perspectives, that I know of, but there are certainly shards of truth, solid links in the chain of cause and effect.

I mean, you wouldn't say "a^2+b^2=c^2 is the Truth", but nor would you say 'that's not a truth!'

[cacian]

Are you talking about Goodness or Truth? I sense an ambivalence towards the common proposition that if there is Truth, ethics may come into play. But the Good deals with what is beneficial for the community - whereas Truth deals with the validity of informational threads. There can never be Absolute truth for our limited perspectives, that I know of, but there are certainly shards of truth, solid links in the chain of cause and effect.

I mean, you wouldn't say "a^2+b^2=c^2 is the Truth", but nor would you say 'that's not a truth!'

Interesting. I am simply thinking is there truth to anything because if there is then there has got to have a falseness somewhere. Opposites have their words and so are similars. For a truth to be one must have a falseness to start with.

[Shaman_Raman]

Interesting. I am simply thinking is there truth to anything because if there is then there has got to have a falseness somewhere. Opposites have their words and so are similars. For a truth to be one must have a falseness to start with.


Simply thinking, huh?

[Evan Shaw]

Yes there is falsehood, but that doesn't negate truth, just shows a view's inaccuracies on a position. because as its been said, our interpretation aims to be objective but in the end is always subjective.

[cacian]

Simply thinking, huh?

Indeed Shaman haha. Thinking the kudos to intellectual shenanigan. Why turf when you can surf.
A planet appears flat but then not so from the outset. The element of observations is all sorts. One can only assume something and then finds out it is something else. So flat was no right/false and the round is was the correct/the right one. There is one truth the evidence but only to precedent that is a presumption and that was incorrectness.
Truth as a result of an assumption that misplaced not thought out.


Yes there is falsehood, but that doesn't negate truth, just shows a view's inaccuracies on a position. because as its been said, our interpretation aims to be objective but in the end is always subjective.

Let's put it this way which do you think came first truth or falsehood?

[Evan Shaw]

Hard to say, but probably truth: for instance, the laws of physics were there/true before we started to discover them, but Einstein's theories are not free of flaws.

[cafolini]

Hard to say, but probably truth: for instance, the laws of physics were there/true before we started to discover them, but Einstein's theories are not free of flaws.

Yes, but what are the laws of physics? If math is used as a language for physics, then there are many many true laws. But if physics is understood as the language of math, then there are no true laws.

[Evan Shaw]

Yes, but what are the laws of physics? If math is used as a language for physics, then there are many many true laws. But if physics is understood as the language of math, then there are no true laws.

Such is the paradoxical nature of truth. It might be better to ask, which came first order or chaos? This may be a stretch, but the laws of physics are patterns ingrained into nature (hence their apparent universality) that regulate space/time.

[cafolini]

Order came first. Chaos is prejudice as to what, when, where and how is the order. This is absolutely obvious. Good luck in eventually realizing these facts.

[Ecurb]

Yes, there is truth.

Given logic, "No, there is no truth" is impossible. It's self contradictory. It cannot be a true statement, because its truth would contradict its claim.

[PeterL]

Yes, there is truth.

Given logic, "No, there is no truth" is impossible. It's self contradictory. It cannot be a true statement, because its truth would contradict its claim.

That is true.

[cacian]

Hard to say, but probably truth: for instance, the laws of physics were there/true before we started to discover them, but Einstein's theories are not free of flaws.

In order to get to the truth one experiments and assumes. Trials and error. I am assuming one has to seclude include and then discover. An error is what allows one to decide that something is not right somewhere. If everything we did was correct then there is no right or wrong to it.
Hence inventions. One notices something is missing and so go on to invent to prevent it.

[osho]

What is truth, cacain? What we call truth from one vision or perspective can be untrue if we look at it from a bigger vision. When you are at the foothill of a mountain everything is over and above you but when you peak the mountain everything else will be below you and the idea of tallness becomes a lie. Tallness is not absolute nor smallness. It is a relative term. So is your understanding of truth. You may find a person highly appealingly charming but inside her she might be an appallingly ugly. Let us look at things from different lenses. Each time the appearance is likely to vary.

[cafolini]

Of course there is truth. Every statement is either true or false in symbolic logic.
But Cacian, Osho, and The Donkey have THE truth.

[cacian]

What is truth, cacain? What we call truth from one vision or perspective can be untrue if we look at it from a bigger vision. When you are at the foothill of a mountain everything is over and above you but when you peak the mountain everything else will be below you and the idea of tallness becomes a lie. Tallness is not absolute nor smallness. It is a relative term. So is your understanding of truth. You may find a person highly appealingly charming but inside her she might be an appallingly ugly. Let us look at things from different lenses. Each time the appearance is likely to vary.

It is true about different degrees of truths but I think that our judgement is often our truth but also our misconception. The ability or inability to make a judgment appropriate at a time when things could go both ways is down to our sensibilities or lack of them.
What I mean is that it is about truth it is about perceptions and how we see things. Truth is irrelevant in this context the only truth there is is that people ecounter other people and experience life. After anything goes no truth just possibilities and endless learning and discoveries.

[osho]

Of course there is truth. Every statement is either true or false in symbolic logic.
But Cacian, Osho, and The Donkey have THE truth.

The list may go a little longer than that since at some point cafolini arrives at the truth of osho, cacain, the donkey, the bull and cafolini all together though somewhat lately since there is total agreement that THE truth has been arrived at.

[Delta40]

[QUOTE=osho;1212538]The list may go a little longer than that since at some point cafolini arrives at the truth of osho, cacain, the donkey, the bull and cafolini all together though somewhat lately since there is total agreement that THE truth has been arrived at.[/QUOTE

I disagree with that truth! - Cafolini you're included because you didn't identify WHO the donkey was, WHAT the donkeys purpose was and which FALSEHOOD was riding the donkey

[cacian]

[QUOTE=osho;1212538]The list may go a little longer than that since at some point cafolini arrives at the truth of osho, cacain, the donkey, the bull and cafolini all together though somewhat lately since there is total agreement that THE truth has been arrived at.[/QUOTE

I disagree with that truth! - Cafolini you're included because you didn't identify WHO the donkey was, WHAT the donkeys purpose was and which FALSEHOOD was riding the donkey

Who/what/falsehood sounds like a beginning to a new promising story. I would add why/when/fakehood took over truthhood.

[cacian]

The list may go a little longer than that since at some point cafolini arrives at the truth of osho, cacain, the donkey, the bull and cafolini all together though somewhat lately since there is total agreement that THE truth has been arrived at.

weee I would take it easy with the bull though :D Oh something comes to mind and it is the word BULLDOZER . I wonder if it comes derivative of BULL. It is possible.

[osho]

weee I would take it easy with the bull though :D Oh something comes to mind and it is the word BULLDOZER . I wonder if it comes derivative of BULL. It is possible.

The donkey is a symbol for truth for somebody and that is why it is named and the bull may sound a bigger truth. cafolini must have named it since it is more perceptible in terms of size and shape. Why not cafolin...the bull and the donkey and all the rest go in tandem to unlock or demystify the secret of truth. If the donkey is a truth, the bull is a bigger truth and from that perspective cafolin might have arrived at a higher and more symbolic truth since the donkey and I added the bull become illustrative of the fact of truth.

[kari]

I am not quite clear of your question, but I am guessing I get it enough to respond. I think that people can have their own truth, which may not line up with anothers. The things we choose to believe in turn impacts what we see, and ultimately how we live our life. We don't all believe the same, but that doesn't mean all those differences aren't real and true for those that do. My truth can be very different than yours, even contradict one another....but there is room in this world for that.

[cafolini]

I am not quite clear of your question, but I am guessing I get it enough to respond. I think that people can have their own truth, which may not line up with anothers. The things we choose to believe in turn impacts what we see, and ultimately how we live our life. We don't all believe the same, but that doesn't mean all those differences aren't real and true for those that do. My truth can be very different than yours, even contradict one another....but there is room in this world for that.

Whenever they contradict each other, either one or the other is incorrect or they are both incorrect. In the latter case there is no contradiction possible since it is nonsense a-priori.

[Silas Thorne]

Whenever they contradict each other, either one or the other is incorrect or they are both incorrect. In the latter case there is no contradiction possible since it is nonsense a-priori.

LOL.This makes perfect sense.

[kari]

And that is why the world is the way it is...people fighting over who is right in something that cannot be proven. People can have their own truth that is different from anothers, and both be just as true. If you honestly think about it....what harm truly falls when you allow others that freedom without judging through ones own limitted sight? And what harm falls when we don't give others that freedom? Even if your answer falls along the lines of having the responsibility to "save" others from their wrong... isnt that slightly obvious of the limitted sight to think that one knows all enough to make such a judgement? I still stand by what I said... there is room for both. The contradictions may appear to us in that way now...but wont forever.
we can all gaze upon an apple and each of us see a different shade. We can each watch a movie and extract a different message. We can each read the same book and gain something completely different that we can apply to our lives and make us better people. Personal truths are the very same. Just because they differ doesn't mean one is right and ine is wrong.

[hypatia_]

truth exists but if you brag about how you know it, you're far from it.

[Mathor]

I think that concept of this thread is interesting, but it lacks definition. What is truth? Without a definition there can be no coherent discussion, because everyone will comment about his own concept of "truth".

Before we can find it for you you will have to tell us what you are looking for.

I think truth is a clearer term, it's reality that I think is not defined. One's view of their own reality is their own relative truth, I suppose?

[hannah_arendt]

There are many questions which can be answered differently and each answer will be correct.

[papillondemai]

Reality seems to drag the idea that it is linked to truth.
I say there is no truth because there is reality. It is either one or the other.
I am real and so whether I am true or not is up to me.

Respectfully I disagree. They both exist. There is reality and there is truth and lack of truth. Then aside from truth there is the concept of being true which is up to you, eg., are you "true" to your wife? (This may not be how you meant the word "true" but I will use it this way to make my point) If your vows to your wife leads her to expect you to be true to her by not fornicating with other women and you actually do then the objective truth is that you weren't "true" to her. Then if you go to her and tell her "Baby, I've been true to you." You would not be telling the truth. Truth like reality is a discernable thing that exists objectively. Let's say that if you exist then you are "real" and then it would be the truth to say that you are real. So there you have both reality and truth. Expressing your argument during the voir dire of a jury panel may be a good way to quickly get excluded from a jury.

[NedSiegel]

"I think, therefore I exist" -- Rene Descartes. The only thing we know for certain is that we exist. That is the truth. Anything else is subject to misinterpretation, opinion, viewpoint, and indoctrination.

[SentimentalSlop]

To say that there is no truth is an absolute statement. It is one thing to say that you believe there is no truth, and another thing entirely to say there is no truth.

Without truth, I'd rather die. I would be frightened out of my mind to live in a world where no one believes in it. What you get is moral relativity, where no opinion or belief is better than any other, and only the strong survive. Forget the lame, mentally deficient, women, and children. They would suffer and face death in such a world.

[cacian]

Respectfully I disagree. They both exist. There is reality and there is truth and lack of truth.

to go with this one would think one lives a complicated juxtaposed life.


Then aside from truth there is the concept of being true which is up to you,
one is what he or she is and depending on time and experience on may go on changing because that is the nature of man.
he or she is up beat and continuously changing. so I would say there is not true but what there is, is circumstantial.


eg., are you "true" to your wife? (This may not be how you meant the word "true" but I will use it this way to make my point) If your vows to your wife leads her to expect you to be true to her by not fornicating with other women and you actually do then the objective truth is that you weren't "true" to her. Then if you go to her and tell her "Baby, I've been true to you." You would not be telling the truth.
yes up to a point. if she does not ask then she won't get an answer, meaning if she has not asked are you having an affair then she won't know whether you are telling here the truth or not. in her eyes you are with her and not with others too. therefore the way you are addressing her is simply a delusion, a different reality you are in from hers.
for the concept of 'true' to be, both parties must ensure that their circumstances are equal and if when they are then there is no need for truth. truth is to counterbalance of wrong but when it does it is no longer wrong. and so it is a catch 22. in this case the wife does not know but the husband does and therefore she is not being lied because she does not know.
two conflicting thoughts.


Truth like reality is a discernable thing that exists objectively. Let's say that if you exist then you are "real"
I would say that I am real because I exist. and not the other way. a reality would not be with an existence concept.


and then it would be the truth to say that you are real. So there you have both reality and truth.
I respectfully disagree. I have a reality. truth is circumstantial and therefore prone to dissolving as soon as a circumstance is in accordance with the latter.


Expressing your argument during the voir dire of a jury panel may be a good way to quickly get excluded from a jury.
interesting. I have never come across a 'voirdire' until now. one is tempted to say it is 'seesay' which means one relies on witness in order to say. hence the 'voir'. but wihout a witness there is no juries. and without a jury there is no saying and without saying there is no judging.
so to express an argument I am not sure I understand. do you mean a jury is in conflict with an other jury about what the opinion is?

[cacian]

"I think, therefore I exist" -- Rene Descartes. The only thing we know for certain is that we exist. That is the truth. Anything else is subject to misinterpretation, opinion, viewpoint, and indoctrination.

that is not the truth that is reality. there is reality because we exist and not the other way. take reality out of the man and the man does not exist.
the other way round does not work. take the existence out of reality which one can because one dies but does reality goes on existing yes. it does because there is one reality 'that someone has passed away'. this reality is known/confirmed by another existence.

another way:
I think therefore I say.
I say therefore I exist.
I exist therefore I am.
one has to say it first in order to confirm it and in order to confirm it one has to hear it.
to think is silent.
to say is active.

[mal4mac]

Hard to say, but probably truth: for instance, the laws of physics were there/true before we started to discover them, ...

No they were not, physical reality was there, but laws of physics are models, and as with model airplanes they do not exist before someone designs them.

[cacian]

Hard to say, but probably truth: for instance, the laws of physics were there/true before we started to discover them, ...
interesting because one thing about physics is that word law that I find almost dictating if not lecturing.
there is no law what there is intention. in other words what is intended is defended.
physics is a collective studies of makes the universe ticks and how it draws upon to stick. in other words physics needs its mathematics to join one line to another without it it means nothing. space is everything and maths is its it. the first time I went to a physics class I thought boredom draw itself to wind me up.
and I so exited from it as quick as I saw it. never looked back.
and so and as mal4mac says we did not discover physics we made it up. the truth is somewhere in between and the need to catch it by all means necessary is what physics does. it is to justify something that is already established a long time ago. time is the biggest rival to physics you can understand why I exited it so not to offend time. time is money physics is economically duped.

[cacian]

To say that there is no truth is an absolute statement. It is one thing to say that you believe there is no truth, and another thing entirely to say there is no truth.

Without truth, I'd rather die. I would be frightened out of my mind to live in a world where no one believes in it. What you get is moral relativity, where no opinion or belief is better than any other, and only the strong survive. Forget the lame, mentally deficient, women, and children. They would suffer and face death in such a world.
ok well here is a question:
do you know better then god?
and if not then why not because you should.
that is to me a question with an answer that provides a reason for it to be asked.
here I did not tell the truth or lied I asked a question and to which the answer is the reason.
there is no wrong or right what there is a purpose a reason.

[SentimentalSlop]

I'm a little confused about what you are asking.

[mal4mac]

What you get is moral relativity, where no opinion or belief is better than any other, and only the strong survive. Forget the lame, mentally deficient, women, and children. They would suffer and face death in such a world.

Atheist doctors certainly don't forget the lame or mentally deficient. I don't go about strong-arming the lame, mentally deficient, women, or children. I don't know an atheist who does! You don't need an absolute standard of morality to encourage people to behave decently to each other; you don't need a big sky-daddy, or a guy in a funny hat in Rome, laying down the law. We can make our own laws, and have done so in many countries (not perfectly, absolutely, well, but "very well" in liberal, secular, democracies.)

[SentimentalSlop]

Most atheists are kind people and care for others. I perfectly acknowledge that. But if someone doesn't have an absolute reason why they should be selfless, they're not obligated to care for the sick and dying and the most vulnerable. That doesn't mean people wouldn't do so without a reason anyway, but what's stopping someone from throwing their mom suffering from dementia in a nursing home when they no longer want to take care of her and they have the money to do so? What answer will they have to face? Why should they take care of her if they're sick and tired of her? Because it's the "nice" thing to do? Try convincing someone with that answer.

[mal4mac]

Most atheists are kind people and care for others. I perfectly acknowledge that. But if someone doesn't have an absolute reason why they should be selfless, they're not obligated to care for the sick and dying and the most vulnerable.

So what? As long as the doctor does his job I'm happy. I don't need to imagine that there's a sky-god with a big stick ready to smite him if he does something naughty. There are enough social & professional reasons for the doctor to be a good doctor. Are the health services collapsing under the weight of atheist neglect? There's no evidence for that.

[SentimentalSlop]

Some would argue otherwise...

[cafolini]

Most of you should consider what a thread is about before you open your mouth. This thread is about whether or not there is truth.

[Eman Resu]

Most of you should consider what a thread is about before you open your mouth. This thread is about whether or not there is truth.


Oh, come on - Fetal Bovine Serum is extracted from bovine fetuses; Horse Serum is extracted from horses, and Calf serum is extracted from calves. If truth didn't exist, where the heck would we have gotten truth serum from?

[SentimentalSlop]

Most of you should consider what a thread is about before you open your mouth. This thread is about whether or not there is truth.

You're right. Sorry about that.

[mal4mac]

Some would argue otherwise...

On what evidence?

[mal4mac]

You're right. Sorry about that.

Relax. He isn't the Old Testament God, even if his tone leans that way. A thread isn't a straight and narrow path; let it meander where it will. If you want it to meander back to the original question, then please do that by subtle means, not by shaking a big stick.